Ketogenic diets: Yay or Nay?
Replies
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vikinglander wrote: »First, Atkins is not a ketogenic diet. Just sayin'...
Atkins induction is going to put you in ketosis.Do some research before jumping in. Take a look at Whole30.com. It's technically not keto, but it's close.
It allows unlimited sweet potatoes, fruit, any amount of vegetables including carrots, parsnips, winter veg, and onions and the rest of their family (which can be surprisingly high sugar). Also nuts. I think the new version even permits potatoes although the old one did not. I'd never be in ketosis on W30. (I'm trying to get into ketosis eating unlimited non starchy veg, plus some nuts and dairy most days, and I'm still higher than usually recommended for that (or than Atkins induction) -- add in fruit and tubers, and I wouldn't be even close to low enough carb.)3 -
willnorton wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »willnorton wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »willnorton wrote: »all that fat is not good for you.... I have been on low carb/ketogenic diets for many years because its an easy diet and you can eat some fatty yummy foods..... but i ended up with medical problems from it.... type 2 got worse.... I have been on plantbased diet for several months now and am healthier than i ever have been... blood sugar normal, blood pressure normal... off 2 different bp meds.... lost about 30 pounds...... sleep better.... your body might be able to handle all that fat.. and a real keto diet is about 80% fat.... feel free to holler at me anytime you want...... think real hard about it....
keto works for many people,you cant say all that fat is not good. there is no proof that its not. I dont do keto due to health issues so I have to eat low fat, a real keto diet is not about 80% fat, some eat lower fat percentages and still are able to be in ketosis. also losing weight will help with blood sugar and blood pressure issues in some people as well,some it may not. I say if someone wants to try it and can do it,then more power to them. its just another way of eating for some it will be sustainable for others it wont.
charlie, I guess we have read different articles about keto.... may i suggest you watching some videos by Dr. Michael Greger or goto his web site www.nutritionalfacts.org ( i think thats the address)... i have watched hundreds of hours of both sides of the fense... our bodies are all different and different things work for different people.... my personal opinion is that all the fat is not good for us and that doctor and that site will give you specific studies and factualy information that is science backed.. not just someones opinion..... life goes on..
while everyone IS different and our bodies are different,studies have proven that high fat and cholesterol dont have an impact like once thought on people who dont have certain health issue . for people like me who have familial hypercholesterolemia,we cannot process fats and cholesterol so high fats/cholesterol in foods for us,does have an impact on our health.
keto has been around for a long time. and for many people it has improved their health markers, keto was originally for people who have seizure disorders and they found that it helps most people with diabetes,insulin resistance,pcos and other health issue. so what if he is a dr? drs go through very little training when it comes to diet and nutrition. he was featured on dr oz so to me that cuts his credibility right there.
Im not going by opinion either, I am going by scientific studies proving that high fat for a lot of people causes no issues. even healthy people who are vegan/vegetarian can have health issues including heart attack,stroke,etc.
while plant based worked the best for you. doesnt mean that it will for others,or that you wont have health issues crop up someday,you may or may not. there are also no proven studies that I know of that plant based diets are superior to any other type of diet.
im telling you that the study based science based information is on that site.... I have done both diets... and i know what works for me... that is what i always try to get across to people I always say it several times in my words.. i think.... its all in what works for you.... i agree there.... heck I might have that crap you got... all that fat just about killed me...... and im old... (64) and our bodies change over the years..i did the keto, well back then it was called Atkins..... it worked wonders for me... but now my old body just cant handle the fat.... so i eat all that beautiful, colorful food and feel great and my doctor is amazed i have got off all the meds I have stopped taking....life is a great ride!
if you have cholesterol issues that are genetic or liver issues then its possible the high fat is what made your health worse. but hey if plant based worked/works for you then that is all that matters.4 -
I had to break my carb addiction before I could do Keto. That's no easy thing for an addict in denial .0
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lemurcat12 wrote: »vikinglander wrote: »First, Atkins is not a ketogenic diet. Just sayin'...
Atkins induction is going to put you in ketosis.Do some research before jumping in. Take a look at Whole30.com. It's technically not keto, but it's close.
It allows unlimited sweet potatoes, fruit, any amount of vegetables including carrots, parsnips, winter veg, and onions and the rest of their family (which can be surprisingly high sugar). Also nuts. I think the new version even permits potatoes although the old one did not. I'd never be in ketosis on W30. (I'm trying to get into ketosis eating unlimited non starchy veg, plus some nuts and dairy most days, and I'm still higher than usually recommended for that (or than Atkins induction) -- add in fruit and tubers, and I wouldn't be even close to low enough carb.)
you are bad wrong if you are talking about ATKINS... never has fruit been on it..... do a little research... cmon man0 -
A high fat diet is not bad for you, unless most of those fats are saturated. If the majority of your fat comes from animal products you still run the risk of high colerstrol and heart disease. Incorporate plenty of monosaturated and polysaturated fats into your diet and these health issues are no longer a concern.1
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For me, i am on month 3 of this. i was doing keto/low carb (whichever one i could do in a day). month 2 weight stalled. since last week i upped my carbs to 100 total, and added fruits, and doc told me its basically i will lose weight counting calories and keeping carbs 100 or less to reverse pre-diabetes. i lost more weight this week doing that than the 20 carbs a day keto! but it was good to get rid of my carb addiction, to do the severe keto 20 carbs a day. i have my appetite under control and cravings under control.1
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I've answered similar threads before but I'll chime in...I loved that on keto I didn't have much of an appetite, but I went into a serious depression each time I tried it. I was told to "tough it out" by the groups I was in but at least twice in recent history that I recall trying it (I think two years ago?) I literally was thinking, well, fatal thoughts, if you will. Just no. Couldn't tough that out.
I switched to moderate carb, calorie restriction and that's worked well for me...60 lbs. so far.
I just think it's worth watching out for - I have heard of others having the drastic reaction I had (the depression). This reaction must surely be a minority, but it can happen, so...there you go.
As I said, I did love the appetite suppression. And I liked that I dropped a ton of water weight and just looked leaner from top to toe because of that.1 -
willnorton wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »vikinglander wrote: »First, Atkins is not a ketogenic diet. Just sayin'...
Atkins induction is going to put you in ketosis.Do some research before jumping in. Take a look at Whole30.com. It's technically not keto, but it's close.
It allows unlimited sweet potatoes, fruit, any amount of vegetables including carrots, parsnips, winter veg, and onions and the rest of their family (which can be surprisingly high sugar). Also nuts. I think the new version even permits potatoes although the old one did not. I'd never be in ketosis on W30. (I'm trying to get into ketosis eating unlimited non starchy veg, plus some nuts and dairy most days, and I'm still higher than usually recommended for that (or than Atkins induction) -- add in fruit and tubers, and I wouldn't be even close to low enough carb.)
you are bad wrong if you are talking about ATKINS... never has fruit been on it..... do a little research... cmon man
Ummm... pretty certain you need to do a little research before you call someone else bad wrong. Or am I hallucinating this list of phase 3 acceptable fruits on the Atkins website? I mean, it could be my imagination.
https://atkins.com/how-it-works/atkins-20/phase-3/acceptable-foods-atkins-20-phase-33 -
willnorton wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »vikinglander wrote: »First, Atkins is not a ketogenic diet. Just sayin'...
Atkins induction is going to put you in ketosis.Do some research before jumping in. Take a look at Whole30.com. It's technically not keto, but it's close.
It allows unlimited sweet potatoes, fruit, any amount of vegetables including carrots, parsnips, winter veg, and onions and the rest of their family (which can be surprisingly high sugar). Also nuts. I think the new version even permits potatoes although the old one did not. I'd never be in ketosis on W30. (I'm trying to get into ketosis eating unlimited non starchy veg, plus some nuts and dairy most days, and I'm still higher than usually recommended for that (or than Atkins induction) -- add in fruit and tubers, and I wouldn't be even close to low enough carb.)
you are bad wrong if you are talking about ATKINS... never has fruit been on it..... do a little research... cmon man
Atkins has ALWAYS had fruit included at a certain point if one can "tolerate" it or what-have-you. It's one of those "tiers" (I think they're called?) - when you add in one type of food + 5 grams of carbs per week to see if your appetite comes back and/or if your weight stops going down. At that point you're supposed to take away that food group and/or go back down by 5 grams and that's supposed to be where you stay for the time being in order to continue to lose weight. (Or rather, this was the way it went for years, actually I think for decades; it may be slightly different now, with "phases" or whatever.)
I remember fruits - I think he said to start with berries - in the 1970s version of the book that my mom read in the early 80s. Fruit's always been in the "plan."
I'm not defending Atkins, I don't do this or another carb-controlled and/or keto plan, but...YOU need to be educated before correcting the next person.
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willnorton wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »vikinglander wrote: »First, Atkins is not a ketogenic diet. Just sayin'...
Atkins induction is going to put you in ketosis.Do some research before jumping in. Take a look at Whole30.com. It's technically not keto, but it's close.
It allows unlimited sweet potatoes, fruit, any amount of vegetables including carrots, parsnips, winter veg, and onions and the rest of their family (which can be surprisingly high sugar). Also nuts. I think the new version even permits potatoes although the old one did not. I'd never be in ketosis on W30. (I'm trying to get into ketosis eating unlimited non starchy veg, plus some nuts and dairy most days, and I'm still higher than usually recommended for that (or than Atkins induction) -- add in fruit and tubers, and I wouldn't be even close to low enough carb.)
you are bad wrong if you are talking about ATKINS... never has fruit been on it..... do a little research... cmon man
Atkins has ALWAYS had fruit included at a certain point if one can "tolerate" it or what-have-you. It's one of those "tiers" (I think they're called?) - when you add in one type of food + 5 grams of carbs per week to see if your appetite comes back and/or if your weight stops going down. At that point you're supposed to take away that food group and/or go back down by 5 grams and that's supposed to be where you stay for the time being in order to continue to lose weight. (Or rather, this was the way it went for years, actually I think for decades; it may be slightly different now, with "phases" or whatever.)
I remember fruits - I think he said to start with berries - in the 1970s version of the book that my mom read in the early 80s. Fruit's always been in the "plan."
I'm not defending Atkins, I don't do this or another carb-controlled and/or keto plan, but...YOU need to be educated before correcting the next person.
fruit has not always been on the induction phase... i never got out of the induction phase... it wasnt called that back in the 70's
i think all yall are wrong. and can have my own opinion.. this is AMERICA
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willnorton wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »vikinglander wrote: »First, Atkins is not a ketogenic diet. Just sayin'...
Atkins induction is going to put you in ketosis.Do some research before jumping in. Take a look at Whole30.com. It's technically not keto, but it's close.
It allows unlimited sweet potatoes, fruit, any amount of vegetables including carrots, parsnips, winter veg, and onions and the rest of their family (which can be surprisingly high sugar). Also nuts. I think the new version even permits potatoes although the old one did not. I'd never be in ketosis on W30. (I'm trying to get into ketosis eating unlimited non starchy veg, plus some nuts and dairy most days, and I'm still higher than usually recommended for that (or than Atkins induction) -- add in fruit and tubers, and I wouldn't be even close to low enough carb.)
you are bad wrong if you are talking about ATKINS... never has fruit been on it..... do a little research... cmon man
I'm pretty sure based on lemurcat's quoting, her comments about fruit are in reference to the whole30, not Atkins.3 -
willnorton wrote: »willnorton wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »vikinglander wrote: »First, Atkins is not a ketogenic diet. Just sayin'...
Atkins induction is going to put you in ketosis.Do some research before jumping in. Take a look at Whole30.com. It's technically not keto, but it's close.
It allows unlimited sweet potatoes, fruit, any amount of vegetables including carrots, parsnips, winter veg, and onions and the rest of their family (which can be surprisingly high sugar). Also nuts. I think the new version even permits potatoes although the old one did not. I'd never be in ketosis on W30. (I'm trying to get into ketosis eating unlimited non starchy veg, plus some nuts and dairy most days, and I'm still higher than usually recommended for that (or than Atkins induction) -- add in fruit and tubers, and I wouldn't be even close to low enough carb.)
you are bad wrong if you are talking about ATKINS... never has fruit been on it..... do a little research... cmon man
Atkins has ALWAYS had fruit included at a certain point if one can "tolerate" it or what-have-you. It's one of those "tiers" (I think they're called?) - when you add in one type of food + 5 grams of carbs per week to see if your appetite comes back and/or if your weight stops going down. At that point you're supposed to take away that food group and/or go back down by 5 grams and that's supposed to be where you stay for the time being in order to continue to lose weight. (Or rather, this was the way it went for years, actually I think for decades; it may be slightly different now, with "phases" or whatever.)
I remember fruits - I think he said to start with berries - in the 1970s version of the book that my mom read in the early 80s. Fruit's always been in the "plan."
I'm not defending Atkins, I don't do this or another carb-controlled and/or keto plan, but...YOU need to be educated before correcting the next person.
fruit has not always been on the induction phase... i never got out of the induction phase... it wasnt called that back in the 70's
i think all yall are wrong. and can have my own opinion.. this is AMERICA
You said:
you are bad wrong if you are talking about ATKINS... never has fruit been on it
(bolding mine)
Now that you've Googled I see you've put 'induction' in there...
That's okay...better late than never!
But, psst. Your assertion wasn't an opinion. It was stated as a fact and worse, as a correction of someone else (even though it was incorrect). We're all allowed to give our own information, ESPECIALLY if it's not completely, utterly wrong. God bless America.5 -
I, personally, do not feel well when in ketosis so I am a "Nay" on the keto diet. But I know plenty of people who do very well on it so I say "Yay" for them. If I had epilepsy, I'd try it in a heartbeat to see if it helped seizures even if ketosis made me feel awful.0
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willnorton wrote: »fruit has not always been on the induction phase... i never got out of the induction phase... it wasnt called that back in the 70's
i think all yall are wrong. and can have my own opinion.. this is AMERICA
You didn't say induction phase, you said:willnorton wrote: »you are bad wrong if you are talking about ATKINS... never has fruit been on it..... do a little research... cmon man
And I'm curious how you can think "all yall are wrong" when I posted a link to the official Atkins website for phase three (again, your 'do a little research' comment didn't specify induction, but Atkins as a whole) which has a list of fruits?
"Atkins doesn't allow fruits"
"Here's a Atkins website list of allowed fruits."
"All yall are wrong."
What?4 -
(Bah, hit wrong button, was trying to add this to previous post)
ETA: You are allowed to say, "Sorry, I mean the induction phase." instead of Yelling at us and saying we are all wrong. We aren't psychic, we only had the info you wrote, not what you were thinking.
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I've done a mix of keto/LCHF for the past 18 months. For me it's a yay and I plan to eat some degree of LCHF for life unless something changes. I do have PCOS and formerly prediabetes and as a pp mentioned, it can be especially helpful for people with those conditions.
For me, the benefits included easier weight loss (largely due to reduced hunger and cravings), reduced joint pain, reduced acid reflux and other GI issues, increased stamina and energy (once I adapted, which took a couple of weeks) and more regular cycles. My PCP, cardiologist and MS specialist are all supportive of this way of eating for me. My A1C has dropped to 4.9 and other blood work looks good as well.
In terms of macro ratios, I've mostly done 10-15% carbs, 60-65% fat and 25% protein. When I was eating at a deficit (1350-1500 cals/day depending on exercise), that put me in keto levels. At maintenance calories, I've been experimenting with different carb levels (within the low carb range) to see how it affects me. Testing some theories right now. 2 -
Lillymoo01 wrote: »A high fat diet is not bad for you, unless most of those fats are saturated. If the majority of your fat comes from animal products you still run the risk of high colerstrol and heart disease. Incorporate plenty of monosaturated and polysaturated fats into your diet and these health issues are no longer a concern.
not true if you have a health issue where your liver cannot process fats/cholesterol(not just animal fats) properly then high fats/cholesterol can cause an issue.0 -
willnorton wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »vikinglander wrote: »First, Atkins is not a ketogenic diet. Just sayin'...
Atkins induction is going to put you in ketosis.Do some research before jumping in. Take a look at Whole30.com. It's technically not keto, but it's close.
It allows unlimited sweet potatoes, fruit, any amount of vegetables including carrots, parsnips, winter veg, and onions and the rest of their family (which can be surprisingly high sugar). Also nuts. I think the new version even permits potatoes although the old one did not. I'd never be in ketosis on W30. (I'm trying to get into ketosis eating unlimited non starchy veg, plus some nuts and dairy most days, and I'm still higher than usually recommended for that (or than Atkins induction) -- add in fruit and tubers, and I wouldn't be even close to low enough carb.)
you are bad wrong if you are talking about ATKINS... never has fruit been on it..... do a little research... cmon man
I didn't say fruit was on Atkins. I said Atkins induction will put you in ketosis. (I've never done Atkins, but I think after induction you increase carbs, so why not fruit?)
Anyway, I said fruit was permitted on Whole30, which is one reason I think it's weird to say it's more of a keto diet than Atkins.
Did you not actually read my post?2 -
I've been on WW, and done a plant-based diet during the past three years. Lost weight, gained back more, felt awful. Chronic joint pain, and daily needs for naps--overall, life wasn't fun. Eating wasn't fun either. My days were centered around food: thinking about it, planning how and when I'd eat it, and especially feeling guilty about it when I'd give into the cravings and blindly binge eat.
So two months into keto (not Atkins!), I'm eating less, no longer hungry (or "hangry"). I crave nothing , am full of energy (no more naps!)and feeling less chronic pain in my joints. My skin is clear, and more importantly--so is my mind! The forgetful fog seems to have cleared. Eating keto has been a life-changing experience for me.
Are all those fats bad for me? Maybe. But they can't be any worse than the yo-yo weight gain/loss, binge eating, and constant food fear that I've endured for most of my adult life. I'm already unhealthy from that "good" diet. So I've decided--I'm sticking with keto for now, and if the numbers go down on the scale and the blood pressure cuff and the blood lab, then I'm on it for life.3 -
cyndblackburn wrote: »I've been on WW, and done a plant-based diet during the past three years. Lost weight, gained back more, felt awful. Chronic joint pain, and daily needs for naps--overall, life wasn't fun. Eating wasn't fun either. My days were centered around food: thinking about it, planning how and when I'd eat it, and especially feeling guilty about it when I'd give into the cravings and blindly binge eat.
So two months into keto (not Atkins!), I'm eating less, no longer hungry (or "hangry"). I crave nothing , am full of energy (no more naps!)and feeling less chronic pain in my joints. My skin is clear, and more importantly--so is my mind! The forgetful fog seems to have cleared. Eating keto has been a life-changing experience for me.
Are all those fats bad for me? Maybe. But they can't be any worse than the yo-yo weight gain/loss, binge eating, and constant food fear that I've endured for most of my adult life. I'm already unhealthy from that "good" diet. So I've decided--I'm sticking with keto for now, and if the numbers go down on the scale and the blood pressure cuff and the blood lab, then I'm on it for life.
Sounds like keto is already positive for you. I am 31 months into nutritional ketosis and plan to do some version of it for life. Today I got my Coronary Artery Calcium (CAC) scoring results of 9.3 but do wish I had spent $100 to run one three years ago before I started eating Keto.
@cyndblackburn best of continued success.0
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