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University of Birmingham study says there is no such thing as "fat but fit"?
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Alatariel75
Posts: 17,959 Member
in Debate Club
Haven't read anything more than the article yet, but I'm sure this will spark discussion:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/may/17/obesity-health-no-such-thing-as-fat-but-fit-major-study
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/may/17/obesity-health-no-such-thing-as-fat-but-fit-major-study
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I wish the article had said how much of a higher risk it is being obese vs. Normal weight for those health conditions. It makes a difference if it's only a 3% increase in risk or a 30% increase in risk.5
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I wish the article had said how much of a higher risk it is being obese vs. Normal weight for those health conditions. It makes a difference if it's only a 3% increase in risk or a 30% increase in risk.
I imagine that this is hard to quantify, given that there are different levels of obesity.0 -
Ha, yeah. Virgie Tovar et al, too. And the Slaton sisters! Not being able to walk is ~totally healthy~ guiz.6 -
Well, I read the original paper, but haven't completely digested it yet. However a couple things stand out to me.
1. they are taking a single point for reference for BMI, that is, at conscription. Which is interesting because it may point to long-term effects of high adiposity on future health regardless of later weight status.
2. The effect is very strong, stronger than any other study I've seen recently, which is in itself surprising and calls for closer inspection of the methods of collection, data analysis, and raw data.
3. The authors themselves recognize that some associations are peculiar (death by trauma?). They also note that they do not account for other lifestyle decisions, nor any genetic associations.
4. Really fit men between BMI 25-30 have reduced mortality compared to all but the most fit men between 18.5-20; similarly the top half are comparable to the top half of those in the "normal weight" category. I find it very interesting they chose to report 95% confidence intervals, and those intervals are much, much larger than the variation in the means. That means that the statistical relevance between the comparisons is dubious.
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I wish the article had said how much of a higher risk it is being obese vs. Normal weight for those health conditions. It makes a difference if it's only a 3% increase in risk or a 30% increase in risk.
Not quite sure what you're asking, but this is from the article:
The study found that those obese individuals who appeared healthy in fact had a 50% higher risk of coronary heart disease than people who were of normal weight. They had a 7% increased risk of cerebrovascular disease – problems affecting the blood supply to the brain – which can cause a stroke, and double the risk of heart failure.0 -
IMO Whitney is just prostituting herself hoping she's in the small minority that can be morbidly obese and not have serious health consequences.
Very sad.4 -
Packerjohn wrote: »I wish the article had said how much of a higher risk it is being obese vs. Normal weight for those health conditions. It makes a difference if it's only a 3% increase in risk or a 30% increase in risk.
Not quite sure what you're asking, but this is from the article:
The study found that those obese individuals who appeared healthy in fact had a 50% higher risk of coronary heart disease than people who were of normal weight. They had a 7% increased risk of cerebrovascular disease – problems affecting the blood supply to the brain – which can cause a stroke, and double the risk of heart failure.
Thank you. I missed that part. I have trouble reading lots of info in one go...poor memory function.0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »
IMO Whitney is just prostituting herself hoping she's in the small minority that can be morbidly obese and not have serious health consequences.
Very sad.
I started watching her show... but it was just quite sad watching her trying to convince herself she was happy...4 -
Well, I read the original paper, but haven't completely digested it yet. However a couple things stand out to me.
1. they are taking a single point for reference for BMI, that is, at conscription. Which is interesting because it may point to long-term effects of high adiposity on future health regardless of later weight status.
So the question is then, Is the conclusion that someone who is moderately overweight or obese at 18-22 will continue to plump up, thus increasing risk.
Also, do you have a link for the paper, or is it paywalled.
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Whitney Thore would argue against the article. Then again, I think Whitney Thore is in denial about her actual health.
Whitney Thore claims to be fat and fit.
Fat? Yes.
Fit? She can't even stand up on level ground on skis, ride a bicycle, walk at a pace faster than 3 mph, pick up a bottle of shampoo without back injury, dance for an hour with out a trip to the emergency room, shave her own legs, get up off the floor by herself, wear shoes, or remain standing for 3 hours.
Whitney Thore is not fit.kristikitter wrote: »
Ha, yeah. Virgie Tovar et al, too. And the Slaton sisters! Not being able to walk is ~totally healthy~ guiz.
Tess Holliday, who needs three people to help her up after she's knelt on the floor.Packerjohn wrote: »
IMO Whitney is just prostituting herself hoping she's in the small minority that can be morbidly obese and not have serious health consequences.
Very sad.
She already has serious health consequences. And then she goes home from the ER where they tell her that passing out after 40 minutes of light activity is something that can kill a person her size to eat an entire pizza by herself.9 -
Interesting but not what I personally thought "fat but fit" meant. I'd love to see it redone with physical activity paid attention to. If, for example, someone can run a mile with an age-graded score above 50% (and not end up in the hospital), does their BMI still significantly matter?2
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We all know obese people that claim they are healthy because perhaps their blood pressure is normal and they can run marathons and they are comparing themselves to the underweight person who has high blood pressure or cholesterol. The thing I take from it is that eventually it will catch up to you. You are still at greater risk of heart disease , You may have just been lucky . There are 'fitter' obese people true but they are never going to be as fit or as healthy as the person with a normal bmi with no underlying health issues.5
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Why is this being reported as "fat but fit" rather than "fat but healthy" ?!?!
They seem to be comparing various health risks rather then measuring fitness indicators such as VO2MAX?
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I think (hope) that Whitney is starting to come around. Maybe.1 -
Hawaiian_Iceberg wrote: »Why is this being reported as "fat but fit" rather than "fat but healthy" ?!?!
They seem to be comparing various health risks rather then measuring fitness indicators such as VO2MAX?
It's in a British publication so it has tongue in cheek humour. The term "fit" has two meanings and uses: healthy is one meaning and the second is to be sexually attractive "that girl is fit!" So they're saying that fat but fit being a myth they're saying it's not healthy, and oh by the way, it's not attractive either. It's a play on words.4 -
Hawaiian_Iceberg wrote: »Why is this being reported as "fat but fit" rather than "fat but healthy" ?!?!
They seem to be comparing various health risks rather then measuring fitness indicators such as VO2MAX?
VO2max = the max amount (volume) of oxygen (O2) your body can process.
It's scaled to your body weight. For example, at my age, 42 ml per kg per minute is average.
What that means is if you take two people who both run a mile in the same amount of time, but have different weights, the lighter person will have a better (higher) VO2max.0 -
Hawaiian_Iceberg wrote: »Why is this being reported as "fat but fit" rather than "fat but healthy" ?!?!
They seem to be comparing various health risks rather then measuring fitness indicators such as VO2MAX?
It's in a British publication so it has tongue in cheek humour. The term "fit" has two meanings and uses: healthy is one meaning and the second is to be sexually attractive "that girl is fit!" So they're saying that fat but fit being a myth they're saying it's not healthy, and oh by the way, it's not attractive either. It's a play on words.
The guardian using a play on the word 'fit'? Really? I didn't interpret it to be doing that at all.4 -
This is is good study, but even good studies of this type have to be approach with caution, IMO. Especially when looking at "risk", the definitions and significance can get a little slippery.
I first saw this topic seriously addressed 20-25 years by Dr. Steven Blair, who at the time was the director of the research part of the Cooper Clinic. His research was motivated by his personal frustration at feeling like no matter how much he exercised and tried to follow an appropriate intake, he could not lose significant weight. He was about 5'9", 220-230 pounds.
IIRC, he used data from both the Cooper Clinic and the Framingham study. By using whatever statistical techniques one could use at the time, he tried to isolate the effect of different risk factors on overall risk for cardiovascular disease and overall mortality, as well as measure the effect of fitness level.
His conclusions were that, if you controlled for other risk factors, and that if you stratified people by fitness levels, that, for a fit person, being overweight did not increase statistical risk at all. It was his conclusion that the higher CAD risk and mortality associated with being overweight was actually due to the collection of other behaviors/conditions associated with being overweight--e.g. poor food choices, lack of activity, etc.
At the time there was less emphasis on things like metabolic syndrome and visceral fat. I also think the science of meta-analysis has advanced since then.
I always liked the Blair conclusion because, as a fitness professional, I know that I can't promise that I can get someone to lose weight, but I am confident that I can make them more fit. And we do know that increased fitness and increased activity have a "halo" effect that reduces risk at all levels of risk and for almost all lifestyle conditions.
This study seems to suggest a different perspective--that being overweight increases risk in all categories. It could be that it is saying the same thing, just with different points of emphasis.4 -
Does anyone have a link to the actual study vs the summary by the guardian?0
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