Losing fat vs. muscle
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PackPariah
Posts: 75 Member
I am currently trying to lose fat (started April 12th with 158 pound goal and currently have 120 lbs left), but I am also trying to prepare my body for future strength training/body building.
Right now I am losing an average of 3 - 5 pounds (on good weeks...no holidays). But I read that the mayo clinic says that anything over 1.5 pounds in a week is muscle or water weight. I feel by now water weight should be relatively stable, so by their standards I am losing roughly 1.5 to 3.5 pounds of muscle a week???
I only working out 3 days a week which consists of Chest/back, Legs/shoulders, and Arms. Each routine is focused on body weight warm ups (usually a single exercise for each body group), followed by the classic compound exercises (squats, bench, etc..), cable or machine exercise for each muscle group towards the end (just feels good) and finishing of with some sort of farmers exercise (walk, hold, walk and hold). Also on c/b and arms day I do 20 minutes of elliptical at the beginning and 30 minutes of tread mill @ 4mph and half incline (btw strength and farmers). I read that cardio eats muscle away and am fine getting rid of the elliptical. However, I do the treadmill because it seems to be helping my Achilles injury (tried jogging at 358 pounds...do not recommend).
I am not a super picky eater, but I do try to eat some more protein in place of carbs. MFP says I should eat about 2100 calories, and I average btw 1800 to 2100. But that is another thing, I read that muscle loss only happens to those eating less than 1200 calories.
After all that information, would anybody have an opinion on whether I am burning muscle or fat? Could mayo clinic be wrong? Or do I need to really take a look and adjust my diet/exercise regimen?
Right now I am losing an average of 3 - 5 pounds (on good weeks...no holidays). But I read that the mayo clinic says that anything over 1.5 pounds in a week is muscle or water weight. I feel by now water weight should be relatively stable, so by their standards I am losing roughly 1.5 to 3.5 pounds of muscle a week???
I only working out 3 days a week which consists of Chest/back, Legs/shoulders, and Arms. Each routine is focused on body weight warm ups (usually a single exercise for each body group), followed by the classic compound exercises (squats, bench, etc..), cable or machine exercise for each muscle group towards the end (just feels good) and finishing of with some sort of farmers exercise (walk, hold, walk and hold). Also on c/b and arms day I do 20 minutes of elliptical at the beginning and 30 minutes of tread mill @ 4mph and half incline (btw strength and farmers). I read that cardio eats muscle away and am fine getting rid of the elliptical. However, I do the treadmill because it seems to be helping my Achilles injury (tried jogging at 358 pounds...do not recommend).
I am not a super picky eater, but I do try to eat some more protein in place of carbs. MFP says I should eat about 2100 calories, and I average btw 1800 to 2100. But that is another thing, I read that muscle loss only happens to those eating less than 1200 calories.
After all that information, would anybody have an opinion on whether I am burning muscle or fat? Could mayo clinic be wrong? Or do I need to really take a look and adjust my diet/exercise regimen?
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Replies
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What are your current stats? The general recommendation to avoid muscle loss is to lose no more than 1% of your body weight per week, to eat plenty of protein, and lift weights.0
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Are you doing a particular program. 1 day a week isn't really all that much work. A good program would get you closer to twice a week for each lift.0
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You are likely losing fat and muscle. How much muscle isn't going to be known without elaborate tests. You should switch to a full body, 3x/week program. Many of the things that you read are false or taken way out of context (as so many things in the diet & fitness industry are)
Eat a good bit of protein as protection against muscle loss. You didn't say how much currently you eat. 150-200 grams is probably good. But don't freak if you just can't get that high. Also keeping a smaller deficit will help reduce muscle loss. Cardio doesn't eat muscle, that's completely out of context.1 -
@try2again - 6ft 1in 320 lbs 34% body fat and 42.8 bmi (both according to gyms body fat analyzer)
@stanmann571, @rybo - Damn both of you, I just made a commitment to myself a couple weeks ago that I would stop changing my workout routine for at least 90 workout days. I fell into the pit of constantly researching and changing my routines around almost every week and was impossible to gauge whether I was gaining strength.
@stanmann571 - No particular routine. I was hoping concentrating on more compound exercises for each muscle group would make up for concentrating on individual ones once a week. But I do know my biceps and upper back are really under worked. Seems I mainly feel it in my core, triceps, and legs after each workout.
@rybo - I know what you mean. It seems that for every person saying this exercise is good for you or eating this is the best there are at least two other people say that it is not good or you will kill your joints etc.. Looking at this week alone, my lowest protein intake was 106 grams and my highest was 187 grams. I average around 140 grams a day. I also think I will look at switching back to a full body program after I keep my promise to myself.0 -
It would depend on how much you weigh. you can lose 1 percent weekly. So if your 300 lbs you can lose 3 lbs a week safely with minimal muscle loss. If your 200 you can lose 2 etc. Also cardio doesnt kill muscle but it doesnt build it either. What cardio will do is give you more calories so you can eat more and still stay in a deficit.0
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ok, so this is said with no negative intent. Also I started off at about 350lb 6 years ago. My lowest weight was 195lb, and I'm about 224lb right now. I just add that to say I get it, your focused. So I'll share what helped me. First off your still a big person and although it's a great strategy to retain as much muscle as possible in your case.... you're better off losing as much fat as possible as quickly as possible. Don't do any silly juice cleanses or starvation. Just what your'e doing fluids should be water or calorie free, most of your meals should be lean protein, fruits, vegetables, and avoid calorically dense highly palatable foods, aka spagetti or donuts.
Now on retaining as much muscle as possible. You have no control on that.... BUT if you focus on strength you will do yourself lots of favors. I recommend Mark Rippletoes Starting Strength Book. I have it and it's on a shelf for when my soon wants to go to the gym with his friends the first time.
You have no control over how much muscle you lose, or how "Big" you get but anyone can get stronger by following an intelligent barbell training program.
Lastly, I train with barbells 4 times a week. and over the years have put on enough muscle that I am losing weight on about 2800 calories a day. I just had an 10oz steak, bowl of fruit, cup of sweet potatoe, and some naan bread for lunch.
1200 calories is possible but you are starving yourself and can't stick to that long term.
Good luck! Track your calories and get strong. I guarantee in a year you'll be where you want.
oh an last thing you are ALWAYS losing fat AND muscle or if you're completely untrained you can actually lose fat and gain muscle, but only for a few months usually. The thing is by increasing strength you can really swing the percentages, so maybe you don't lose any muscle or only one or two pounds for every 10 pounds of fat. insted of 50/50.
Most people that's why they keep getting fatter. I was one of them.
I can explain why but I've been typing for awhile need to get back to work
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you should do the following..
get on a structured newbie lifting routine like starting strength, all pro beginner, strong lifts,etc.
keep eating in a deficit.
keep protein high, about .8 go 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight; .45 grams of fats, fill in rest with carbs
do some form of cardio on off lifting days
make sure you have one rest day, whether that is active rest or do nothing is up to you3 -
ok, so this is said with no negative intent. Also I started off at about 350lb 6 years ago. My lowest weight was 195lb, and I'm about 224lb right now. I just add that to say I get it, your focused. So I'll share what helped me. First off your still a big person and although it's a great strategy to retain as much muscle as possible in your case.... you're better off losing as much fat as possible as quickly as possible. Don't do any silly juice cleanses or starvation. Just what your'e doing fluids should be water or calorie free, most of your meals should be lean protein, fruits, vegetables, and avoid calorically dense highly palatable foods, aka spagetti or donuts.
Now on retaining as much muscle as possible. You have no control on that.... BUT if you focus on strength you will do yourself lots of favors. I recommend Mark Rippletoes Starting Strength Book. I have it and it's on a shelf for when my soon wants to go to the gym with his friends the first time.
You have no control over how much muscle you lose, or how "Big" you get but anyone can get stronger by following an intelligent barbell training program.
Lastly, I train with barbells 4 times a week. and over the years have put on enough muscle that I am losing weight on about 2800 calories a day. I just had an 10oz steak, bowl of fruit, cup of sweet potatoe, and some naan bread for lunch.
1200 calories is possible but you are starving yourself and can't stick to that long term.
Good luck! Track your calories and get strong. I guarantee in a year you'll be where you want.
oh an last thing you are ALWAYS losing fat AND muscle or if you're completely untrained you can actually lose fat and gain muscle, but only for a few months usually. The thing is by increasing strength you can really swing the percentages, so maybe you don't lose any muscle or only one or two pounds for every 10 pounds of fat. insted of 50/50.
Most people that's why they keep getting fatter. I was one of them.
I can explain why but I've been typing for awhile need to get back to work
actually, OP is better off losing fat now and also trying to preserve as much mass as possible.
and you don't have to eat majority lean protein, vegetables, etc..what matters is hitting calorie target, micros, and macros and filling in with some foods that one enjoys like pizza, pasta, etc...1 -
If he gets on a good strength training program he will already preserve "as much mass" as possible. And I did say track calories and Majority, meaning most. But this person has 150lbs. to lose, he's lost 40, which is fantastic so he really doesn't need help on how to lose anyway. My main point is get as strong as you possibly can and the rest will take care of itself. As long as you track calories I agree a slice or two of pizza won' t hurt. But he is a "fat guy" like me so if he's hungry all the time eventually he will eat, and all the wrong things. by getting the majority of calories from fruit/veg/protein you'll be eating enough volume so you'll never be hungry so if you have a cookie or slice of pizza or two you don't go nuts for a week.1
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sstaley_23 wrote: »I am currently trying to lose fat (started April 12th with 158 pound goal and currently have 120 lbs left), but I am also trying to prepare my body for future strength training/body building.
Right now I am losing an average of 3 - 5 pounds (on good weeks...no holidays). But I read that the mayo clinic says that anything over 1.5 pounds in a week is muscle or water weight. I feel by now water weight should be relatively stable, so by their standards I am losing roughly 1.5 to 3.5 pounds of muscle a week???
I only working out 3 days a week which consists of Chest/back, Legs/shoulders, and Arms. Each routine is focused on body weight warm ups (usually a single exercise for each body group), followed by the classic compound exercises (squats, bench, etc..), cable or machine exercise for each muscle group towards the end (just feels good) and finishing of with some sort of farmers exercise (walk, hold, walk and hold). Also on c/b and arms day I do 20 minutes of elliptical at the beginning and 30 minutes of tread mill @ 4mph and half incline (btw strength and farmers). I read that cardio eats muscle away and am fine getting rid of the elliptical. However, I do the treadmill because it seems to be helping my Achilles injury (tried jogging at 358 pounds...do not recommend).
I am not a super picky eater, but I do try to eat some more protein in place of carbs. MFP says I should eat about 2100 calories, and I average btw 1800 to 2100. But that is another thing, I read that muscle loss only happens to those eating less than 1200 calories.
After all that information, would anybody have an opinion on whether I am burning muscle or fat? Could mayo clinic be wrong? Or do I need to really take a look and adjust my diet/exercise regimen?
Its not an exact science, there is no way to tell how much fat vs how much muscle you are losing for each pound. There are general estimates, but take it all as just estimates. you are 120 pounds from your goal, you have a ways to go before having to worry about the details. Just keep eating at a safe deficit and get in some exercise and dont worry about the little details. You will burn muscle as you lose weight, that just happens. Even the pros that are experienced with bulks and cuts lose muscle, it just happens1 -
sstaley_23 wrote: »I am not a super picky eater, but I do try to eat some more protein in place of carbs. MFP says I should eat about 2100 calories, and I average btw 1800 to 2100. But that is another thing, I read that muscle loss only happens to those eating less than 1200 calories.
Just wanted to add, a person doesn't have to be on 1200 calories or less to lose muscle mass. They just have to be in a greater deficit than their current body weight can support. 1200 calories is simply the minimum recommended calories for women, and 1500 for men.
If I understood correctly, you've lost about 38 lbs in 2 months. That's aggressive, but not unheard of at your starting weight. I would encourage you, assuming you are logging as accurately as possible, to eat all the calories MFP gives you and a portion of your exercise calories. That is not a number to *beat*, and there are no awards for most calories left over at the end of the day. Just greater potential for muscle loss & other issues. You are doing great, though- hang in there!1 -
If and when you start feeling overwhelmed by the large deficits you've adopted... remember that you can still succeed with much smaller deficits applied over a longer period of time.
An advantage of learning to eat ~2500 Cal during a large part of your weight loss... is that you can experiment with the foods and portion sizes you will have to keep eating at maintenance in order to maintain your weight loss.
Check out what a lightly active person eats to maintain at your target weight.... might be an interesting range to experiment with and it can always be adjusted down the road.
As to the rest of it you will lose some lean mass regardless. Training is great and it is a kick **kitten** idea! Good on you for doing it. While obese your natural inclination is to preferentially lose fat if you don't overdo the deficits.
I personally think deficits resulting in trending weight losses in the 0.75 to 1% of body weight range are safer than losing 1%+. I suppose that a morbidly obese person losing 1.5% of body weight is not particularly dangerous as long as it doesn't negatively affect compliance. I would re-examine persistent loses of more than 1.5% per week.0
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