Is Diet Coke really that bad? Anyone feel better after quiting?

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  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    blueiii31062 wrote: »
    Bottom line, if people like it and want to keep drinking it, no amount of research that says it's unhealthy will matter.

    That's not really true. Coffee is more my vice than diet soda, but if I genuinely thought that coffee was bad for me, I'm sure I'd cut or eliminate my consumption. I've done that with other things. I think it's kind of presumptuous to dismiss people's disagreement on the merits of a claim (that diet soda is bad for us -- which really is not well-supported) as "oh, they just don't care because they want to drink it so bad."
    There are studies that show people who drink diet soda have higher waist circumferences that those who don't.

    These are correlation studies. I expect that you eat some foods that have been found to have correlations with bad results -- look at the Nurses' Study for some examples. What this doesn't show is that diet soda CAUSES waist circumference to be greater, and there is no mechanism I've seen proposed for what that would be (absent fat gain, which wouldn't relate to diet soda consumption, but to a correlation between people who drink lots of diet soda being more likely to be overweight, which seems unsurprising and not causative to me).
    Personally, I found that my sweet tooth was abated by quitting diet soda.

    I think this may happen to some. It has never happened for me. Drinking diet soda, or not, makes 0 difference as to how much I want or don't care about sweet things. (Sweet things are not my main source of excess calories anyway, never were.) Diet soda also does not make me hungrier or to have more cravings in general. I have logged during a period when I was drinking it and during a period where I was almost never drinking it. I struggled more to control calories in the latter period, but I don't think that's about not drinking diet soda either, but other reasons. Main thing is that if you are logging, you can see if you are having trouble controlling calories and can tell if diet soda is resulting in cravings and you going over -- we don't have to worry that that might be the case without us knowing.
    Natural sugars, like those in fruits, taste sweeter to me now than they did when I drank diet soda. My sweet cravings have greatly diminished, but that took place over a 2-3 year period. It doesn't happen overnight.

    I always find it odd when people say this, or otherwise speak of their palate being screwed up by overconsumption of sweet things, added sugar OR artificial sweetener, because it never happened to me, at all. Maybe I didn't consume enough, maybe it's just a difference, but, for example, when I consumed the most diet soda I was almost never consuming sweets and when I drank wine I'd always go for dry and actively disliked most sweeter wines (even good ones, since of course many sweeter wines are plonk). I disliked sweet mixed drinks, thought some desserts were too sweet, tended to crave savory over sweet in general, and appreciated fruits and many vegetables for their sweetness (and enjoyed them). This idea that if one consumes diet soda one is obsessed with sweet things and cannot appreciate other tastes in food (or more subtle sweetnesses) never was true to me at all, and suggests more to me that someone perhaps has not developed their palate, not that diet soda is to blame. But who knows, maybe it's just a difference, but you certainly should not assume it applies to all.

    On the whole I don't drink much diet soda because I just prefer non sweet drinks (the exception being Goslings diet ginger beer and some other ginger-flavored options). Mostly in the summer I adore chilled coffee, black. Yet when I have them (relatively rarely these days) I quite enjoy ice cream or a piece of pie or a cobbler. I also quite enjoy and appreciate as sweet fruits and vegetables and love this time of year as more and more vegetables and fruits come in season, delicious!

    And that wouldn't be affected if I decided to buy a 6-pack of the Goslings I mentioned (as I did last week) or have a diet coke when out at a restaurant.
    There was a study done in 2006 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/170237230) that found caffeinated sodas did have an effect on bone density.

    Eh, that link doesn't work, but the reports on that I've seen say correlation and they don't really have an explanation, could be displacing other things. For me, I won't drink milk whether I'm drinking soda or water and, more to the point, it's easy to get bone density tested and mine is really good, so I'm not currently worried about it anyway. If I wanted to drink diet soda again, I wouldn't refrain on that basis, as again it just doesn't seem like very good evidence for me specifically. If someone has an issue, yes, sure, although then I hope the person is doing all the other things that help, like weight-bearing exercise, progressive strength training.
  • futuresize8
    futuresize8 Posts: 476 Member
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    Former smoker and former diet soda consumer (on a very regular basis.)

    Science aside, I feel like **I** associate diet soda with "party food" and tend to lean toward unhealthier food choices when I consume it. Diet Pepsi = crunchy, salty, spicy, high-calorie, low-nutrition snacks that I may or may not eat in moderation.

    Like a few other posters in this thread, I also would not drink the diet soda in addition to my daily water...it would replace it. In my mind, water without carbonation and chemicals is better than diet soda.

    Finally, the way this smoker's brain worked? I always knew that smoking caused cancer, but I figured I lead a healthy lifestyle otherwise, that I didn't smoke that much, and that I hadn't smoked long enough for it to lead to any long-term, life-threatening issues. (See? Addicts can rationalize ANYTHING...) Now I pray that I quit soon enough...I think it's been 4.5 years now.

    Regardless of what science can prove or disprove, I feel that the closer I eat to the ground, which means not buying a bunch of anything that has a ton of additives/preservatives in it, the less mistakes I'll make from a dietary standpoint. I'm probably not going to get fat eating zucchini chips I make myself, but I could totally do that eating Grippos BBQ potato chips, (that, while freaking delicious, somehow have 16 grams of fat in one serving.)
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    ritzvin wrote: »
    ritzvin wrote: »
    I don't drink it at home though..never did. I am way too lazy to even consider carrying it. (I live in a first world country with running water G*d*mit..no F*ing way am I lugging jugs of ~99+% water home).

    It actually boggles my mind that so many people do buy it..especially those that have to walk to/from the store.

    Heh, that's actually why I started limiting my consumption, no way am I adding heavy stuff to what I have to carry.

    Also, I'm cheap, which is why I drink tap water (that and I see no reason it's not just as good or better). At work I'll drink La Croix sometimes because it's free and I thought about buying some yesterday even, and it was "no, not
    carrying that."

    I waste money on coffee beans, sure, but at least they are light!
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
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    Christine_72 wrote: »
    It depends who you ask..

    -People who have a dependence on it and need to drink it everyday will say soda is the nectar of the Gods and will shut down anyone who points out anything negative about it.

    OR

    -People who have successfully kicked the habit, or others who had to stop drinking because it affected them in a negative way.

    Both groups will have a vehement opinion on either side.

    I used to be a smoker, plus had one or two other unhealthy addictions/habits and used all the excuses and justifications in the book. No, I'm not comparing soda to cigarettes, but i recognise the excuses and comments people use to justify whatever their habit may to be...

    What about people who just enjoy it every now and then because they acknowledge that there is solid foundation to claims that it is harmful?
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
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    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    ritzvin wrote: »
    ritzvin wrote: »
    I don't drink it at home though..never did. I am way too lazy to even consider carrying it. (I live in a first world country with running water G*d*mit..no F*ing way am I lugging jugs of ~99+% water home).

    It actually boggles my mind that so many people do buy it..especially those that have to walk to/from the store.

    Heh, that's actually why I started limiting my consumption, no way am I adding heavy stuff to what I have to carry.

    Also, I'm cheap, which is why I drink tap water (that and I see no reason it's not just as good or better). At work I'll drink La Croix sometimes because it's free and I thought about buying some yesterday even, and it was "no, not
    carrying that."

    I waste money on coffee beans, sure, but at least they are light!

    The hassle of transporting it and the cost were the two main reasons I stopped drinking it daily. I got tired of carrying it to my 6th floor apartment and I was unwilling to pay the price to buy them individually each day at work. Now I just buy one a week, a Friday treat to myself. It works just fine. Now coffee . . . that's always worth carrying upstairs!
  • tbirk
    tbirk Posts: 25 Member
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    I cut back on caffeine in general, replacing soda and coffee with water or herbal tea. I felt better! Less tired, and the cravings for sugar and caffeine were a lot less. I still get tempted, so I have to actively avoid caffeinated drinks.
  • kimny72
    kimny72 Posts: 16,013 Member
    edited June 2017
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    You know, some people have brought up caffeine and since OP mentioned energy drinks, I wanted to add that for some people, caffeine affects them much more than they realized, and giving it up or drastically cutting back can be an improvement. Some people (like myself) can handle caffeine just fine but some people esp if they are drinking alot of colas (diet or regular) daily could have mood swings, anxiety, restlessness, jitteriness, and fatigue from a messed up sleep cycle.

    I honestly believe many people who give up diet soda and say they went through withdrawal and now feel better than ever are actually reacting to the caffeine not sweetener.

    So if you feel like you are dependent on diet soda and energy drinks to get through the day, you might feel better if you cut them out or cut way back. Because caffeine :drinker:
  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,049 Member
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    janejellyroll wrote: »
    Christine_72 wrote: »
    It depends who you ask..

    -People who have a dependence on it and need to drink it everyday will say soda is the nectar of the Gods and will shut down anyone who points out anything negative about it.

    OR

    -People who have successfully kicked the habit, or others who had to stop drinking because it affected them in a negative way.

    Both groups will have a vehement opinion on either side.

    I used to be a smoker, plus had one or two other unhealthy addictions/habits and used all the excuses and justifications in the book. No, I'm not comparing soda to cigarettes, but i recognise the excuses and comments people use to justify whatever their habit may to be...

    What about people who just enjoy it every now and then because they acknowledge that there is solid foundation to claims that it is harmful?

    Valid point :smile: I drink a glass of regular soda when we go out to eat, 2-4 times a year or so. I had a sip of my friends diet coke once, or coke zero or whatever it was and it just tasted wrong, that was my first and last taste of diet soda!
    My posts are more directed toward those that MUST drink it everyday, for me personally, being reliant on something that will make me feel like crap if i don't have it everyday would drive me nuts.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    Christine_72 wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    Christine_72 wrote: »
    It depends who you ask..

    -People who have a dependence on it and need to drink it everyday will say soda is the nectar of the Gods and will shut down anyone who points out anything negative about it.

    OR

    -People who have successfully kicked the habit, or others who had to stop drinking because it affected them in a negative way.

    Both groups will have a vehement opinion on either side.

    I used to be a smoker, plus had one or two other unhealthy addictions/habits and used all the excuses and justifications in the book. No, I'm not comparing soda to cigarettes, but i recognise the excuses and comments people use to justify whatever their habit may to be...

    What about people who just enjoy it every now and then because they acknowledge that there is solid foundation to claims that it is harmful?

    Valid point :smile: I drink a glass of regular soda when we go out to eat, 2-4 times a year or so. I had a sip of my friends diet coke once, or coke zero or whatever it was and it just tasted wrong, that was my first and last taste of diet soda!
    My posts are more directed toward those that MUST drink it everyday, for me personally, being reliant on something that will make me feel like crap if i don't have it everyday would drive me nuts.

    Drinking it every day does not mean you must have it every day. Don't you speak about having tea pretty much every day (with milk)?

    I have coffee most days (every once in a while I do not). I don't currently feel bad if I do not. When I drank diet soda much more frequently (once you are used to diet regular tastes off, btw, or at least that was my experience), I definitely did not feel bad if I did not have it. To the extent I've been addicted to caffeine it's been coffee, not soda, which is not surprising because coffee has a higher amount of caffeine, compared to, say, diet coke. (Kicking it isn't really that big a deal -- I've cut it cold turkey for Lent when I was in the habit of drinking it all day, every day, and had a couple or three days where I felt a bit headachy and took some Advil and then was fine. I should drink decaff, but I have it in my head that it doesn't taste as good.)
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    kimny72 wrote: »
    You know, some people have brought up caffeine and since OP mentioned energy drinks, I wanted to add that for some people, caffeine affects them much more than they realized, and giving it up or drastically cutting back can be an improvement. Some people (like myself) can handle caffeine just fine but some people esp if they are drinking alot of colas (diet or regular) daily could have mood swings, anxiety, restlessness, jitteriness, and fatigue from a messed up sleep cycle.

    I honestly believe many people who give up diet soda and say they went through withdrawal and now feel better than ever are actually reacting to the caffeine not sweetener.

    So if you feel like you are dependent on diet soda and energy drinks to get through the day, you might feel better if you cut them out or cut way back. Because caffeine :drinker:

    I totally agree with this, and also think it can happen even if you think there's no effect (one reason I do give up or cut way down on coffee on a regular basis). I thought it had no effect on me, because I fell asleep fine, but realized when I quit it for a while that the amount I was then drinking was almost certainly responsible for me waking up in the middle of the night quite frequently, and perhaps for some added stress. So I think cutting it can be sensible, but weird that people make it about soda (or diet soda) and not caffeine as coffee (and even black tea, I think) can have more than soda.
  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,049 Member
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    Yeah i drink tea and coffee everyday when I'm home. But i stay with my daughter or mum quite often over weekends, neither of whom drink coffee, so at my mums it's tea, and at my daughters i have frickan chocolate milk in the mornings as she doesn't drink tea OR coffee, or milk! She has some revolting herbal tea concoctions in her pantry though :confounded:
    I was so paranoid the first time i stayed there because of all the horror stories of caffeine withdrawal etc etc i read on here, but i wasn't fanging for a caffeine hit, i didn't feel any different. I don't really care what i drink in the morning, as long as it's a warm cup of something/anything. I'm hoping I'm one of the fortunate ones who don't feel like death until they get their caffeine hit, for that I'm bloody grateful.
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,344 Member
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    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    ....So I think cutting it can be sensible, but weird that people make it about soda (or diet soda) and not caffeine as coffee (and even black tea, I think) can have more than soda.

    Woo and fearmongering. Same reason people blame carbs for weight gain and point to things like cake, pie, candy, etc. as "evil", when many of those things contain as much (or more) fat than carbs. As you pointed out, soda contains much less caffeine than coffee and some other drinks.

    I drink diet soda pretty much daily, but not because I "need" it or can't live without it - it's simply because I enjoy the taste and find it refreshing. I can easily go days without a diet soda and would have no problem cutting it out of my diet completely - but why should I when there's no convincing evidence that enjoying it in moderation is doing me any harm? I don't arbitrarily deprive myself of something I enjoy unless there's a good reason to do so.
  • kimny72
    kimny72 Posts: 16,013 Member
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    Christine_72 wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    Christine_72 wrote: »
    It depends who you ask..

    -People who have a dependence on it and need to drink it everyday will say soda is the nectar of the Gods and will shut down anyone who points out anything negative about it.

    OR

    -People who have successfully kicked the habit, or others who had to stop drinking because it affected them in a negative way.

    Both groups will have a vehement opinion on either side.

    I used to be a smoker, plus had one or two other unhealthy addictions/habits and used all the excuses and justifications in the book. No, I'm not comparing soda to cigarettes, but i recognise the excuses and comments people use to justify whatever their habit may to be...

    What about people who just enjoy it every now and then because they acknowledge that there is solid foundation to claims that it is harmful?

    Valid point :smile: I drink a glass of regular soda when we go out to eat, 2-4 times a year or so. I had a sip of my friends diet coke once, or coke zero or whatever it was and it just tasted wrong, that was my first and last taste of diet soda!
    My posts are more directed toward those that MUST drink it everyday, for me personally, being reliant on something that will make me feel like crap if i don't have it everyday would drive me nuts.

    Who said anything about feeling like crap if you don't have it everyday?
    I honestly don't know anyone who MUST drink soda every day. I know people who drink soda/diet soda every day because they like it.

    I drink coffee and/or tea every single day, because I like it and it gives me a little energy bump. But if any given day for same reason I can't have a cuppa, I'm fine. I drink diet soda/Crystal Light pretty much every day because I think it's yummy, but when I stay with my brother and they don't have any, I just drink water (or beer LOL). I think it's an assumption that people who get passionate about defending diet soda are doing so because they NEED it. Maybe they're just sick and tired of others suggesting they are addicted to a toxic chemical when they are really just enjoying a health-neutral beverage that made it easier for them to lose weight?
  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,049 Member
    edited June 2017
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    kimny72 wrote: »
    Christine_72 wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    Christine_72 wrote: »
    It depends who you ask..

    -People who have a dependence on it and need to drink it everyday will say soda is the nectar of the Gods and will shut down anyone who points out anything negative about it.

    OR

    -People who have successfully kicked the habit, or others who had to stop drinking because it affected them in a negative way.

    Both groups will have a vehement opinion on either side.

    I used to be a smoker, plus had one or two other unhealthy addictions/habits and used all the excuses and justifications in the book. No, I'm not comparing soda to cigarettes, but i recognise the excuses and comments people use to justify whatever their habit may to be...

    What about people who just enjoy it every now and then because they acknowledge that there is solid foundation to claims that it is harmful?

    Valid point :smile: I drink a glass of regular soda when we go out to eat, 2-4 times a year or so. I had a sip of my friends diet coke once, or coke zero or whatever it was and it just tasted wrong, that was my first and last taste of diet soda!
    My posts are more directed toward those that MUST drink it everyday, for me personally, being reliant on something that will make me feel like crap if i don't have it everyday would drive me nuts.

    Who said anything about feeling like crap if you don't have it everyday?
    I honestly don't know anyone who MUST drink soda every day. I know people who drink soda/diet soda every day because they like it.

    I drink coffee and/or tea every single day, because I like it and it gives me a little energy bump. But if any given day for same reason I can't have a cuppa, I'm fine. I drink diet soda/Crystal Light pretty much every day because I think it's yummy, but when I stay with my brother and they don't have any, I just drink water (or beer LOL). I think it's an assumption that people who get passionate about defending diet soda are doing so because they NEED it. Maybe they're just sick and tired of others suggesting they are addicted to a toxic chemical when they are really just enjoying a health-neutral beverage that made it easier for them to lose weight?

    Just do a search of the 10,000,000 "I'm addicted to soda" threads and the suffering these people go through when they try to kick the habit.

    ETA: I've also seen it in real like with my sister in Law, she drinks copious amounts of diet soda everyday, and i lost count of the number of splenda packets she puts in each and every cup of coffee, it truly is mind boggling.
  • kimny72
    kimny72 Posts: 16,013 Member
    edited June 2017
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    Christine_72 wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    Christine_72 wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    Christine_72 wrote: »
    It depends who you ask..

    -People who have a dependence on it and need to drink it everyday will say soda is the nectar of the Gods and will shut down anyone who points out anything negative about it.

    OR

    -People who have successfully kicked the habit, or others who had to stop drinking because it affected them in a negative way.

    Both groups will have a vehement opinion on either side.

    I used to be a smoker, plus had one or two other unhealthy addictions/habits and used all the excuses and justifications in the book. No, I'm not comparing soda to cigarettes, but i recognise the excuses and comments people use to justify whatever their habit may to be...

    What about people who just enjoy it every now and then because they acknowledge that there is solid foundation to claims that it is harmful?

    Valid point :smile: I drink a glass of regular soda when we go out to eat, 2-4 times a year or so. I had a sip of my friends diet coke once, or coke zero or whatever it was and it just tasted wrong, that was my first and last taste of diet soda!
    My posts are more directed toward those that MUST drink it everyday, for me personally, being reliant on something that will make me feel like crap if i don't have it everyday would drive me nuts.

    Who said anything about feeling like crap if you don't have it everyday?
    I honestly don't know anyone who MUST drink soda every day. I know people who drink soda/diet soda every day because they like it.

    I drink coffee and/or tea every single day, because I like it and it gives me a little energy bump. But if any given day for same reason I can't have a cuppa, I'm fine. I drink diet soda/Crystal Light pretty much every day because I think it's yummy, but when I stay with my brother and they don't have any, I just drink water (or beer LOL). I think it's an assumption that people who get passionate about defending diet soda are doing so because they NEED it. Maybe they're just sick and tired of others suggesting they are addicted to a toxic chemical when they are really just enjoying a health-neutral beverage that made it easier for them to lose weight?

    Just do a search of the 10,000,000 "I'm addicted to soda" threads and the suffering these people go through when they try to kick the habit.

    ETA: I've also seen it in real like with my sister in Law, she drinks copious amounts of diet soda everyday, and i lost count of the number of splenda packets she puts in each and every cup of coffee, it truly is mind boggling.

    As I said above, I think most people who struggle with giving up diet soda are actually dealing with caffeine. And just like people who say they are addicted to chocolate, to sweets, to chips, and any other specific food... unfortunately discipline and will-power are sorely lacking in a lot of society today. People feel a twinge of hunger and "have" to eat. They remember how good that ice cream was and they can't stop thinking about it. They believe that wanting a "bad" food means they are addicted and weak.

    I'm also a big believer in self-fulfilling prophecies. The health-food media so over-hypes "addiction" to evil foods that people work themselves into the headspace that gives you headaches and fatigue and restlessness, etc. if they try to give them up.

    Interestingly, while I'm rather fond of specific diet sodas, I hate others, and I would rather drink mud than put any artificial sweetener in coffee or tea. I drink coffee with just a touch of milk, and tea plain and unsweetened. :)
  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,049 Member
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    kimny72 wrote: »
    Christine_72 wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    Christine_72 wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    Christine_72 wrote: »
    It depends who you ask..

    -People who have a dependence on it and need to drink it everyday will say soda is the nectar of the Gods and will shut down anyone who points out anything negative about it.

    OR

    -People who have successfully kicked the habit, or others who had to stop drinking because it affected them in a negative way.

    Both groups will have a vehement opinion on either side.

    I used to be a smoker, plus had one or two other unhealthy addictions/habits and used all the excuses and justifications in the book. No, I'm not comparing soda to cigarettes, but i recognise the excuses and comments people use to justify whatever their habit may to be...

    What about people who just enjoy it every now and then because they acknowledge that there is solid foundation to claims that it is harmful?

    Valid point :smile: I drink a glass of regular soda when we go out to eat, 2-4 times a year or so. I had a sip of my friends diet coke once, or coke zero or whatever it was and it just tasted wrong, that was my first and last taste of diet soda!
    My posts are more directed toward those that MUST drink it everyday, for me personally, being reliant on something that will make me feel like crap if i don't have it everyday would drive me nuts.

    Who said anything about feeling like crap if you don't have it everyday?
    I honestly don't know anyone who MUST drink soda every day. I know people who drink soda/diet soda every day because they like it.

    I drink coffee and/or tea every single day, because I like it and it gives me a little energy bump. But if any given day for same reason I can't have a cuppa, I'm fine. I drink diet soda/Crystal Light pretty much every day because I think it's yummy, but when I stay with my brother and they don't have any, I just drink water (or beer LOL). I think it's an assumption that people who get passionate about defending diet soda are doing so because they NEED it. Maybe they're just sick and tired of others suggesting they are addicted to a toxic chemical when they are really just enjoying a health-neutral beverage that made it easier for them to lose weight?

    Just do a search of the 10,000,000 "I'm addicted to soda" threads and the suffering these people go through when they try to kick the habit.

    ETA: I've also seen it in real like with my sister in Law, she drinks copious amounts of diet soda everyday, and i lost count of the number of splenda packets she puts in each and every cup of coffee, it truly is mind boggling.

    As I said above, I think most people who struggle with giving up diet soda are actually dealing with caffeine. And just like people who say they are addicted to chocolate, to sweets, to chips, and any other specific food... unfortunately discipline and will-power are sorely lacking in a lot of society today. People feel a twinge of hunger and "have" to eat. They remember how good that ice cream was and they can't stop thinking about it. They believe that wanting a "bad" food means they are addicted and weak.

    I'm also a big believer in self-fulfilling prophecies. The health-food media so over-hypes "addiction" to evil foods that people work themselves into the headspace that gives you headaches and fatigue and restlessness, etc. if they try to give them up.

    Interestingly, while I'm rather fond of specific diet sodas, I hate others, and I would rather drink mud than put any artificial sweetener in coffee or tea. I drink coffee with just a touch of milk, and tea plain and unsweetened. :)

    I can't disagree with anything you said here :smile: Very good points.
  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,049 Member
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    Every time i post in these soda threads, i promise myself it'll be the last time as they just stress me out! This is made even worse by the fact that the OP's very, very rarely return :rage: So in the end, the whole thread is pretty pointless and honestly not worth the drama.

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