Diets do not work
staceyb4mfp
Posts: 18 Member
Thought provoking title, however, I am an active supporter of the HAES movement (Health At Every Size). Whilst I care about my nutrition, and weight train on a regular basis, I do this for enjoyment and to nourish my body as opposed to hate on it...which I did for so many years.
I cannot stand fad diets, restrictive dieting and nonsense myths about health and fitness. My whole philosophy is about loving your body, self love and self care despite societal expectations. Every body is different and that should be celebrated.
I'd love to find people who are like minded, curious, struggle with weight/body image, have issues surrounding food and/or exercise and would be interested in discussing an alternative approach to the madness that is the diet industry.
Feel free to add me and be part of a loving and supportive community.
I cannot stand fad diets, restrictive dieting and nonsense myths about health and fitness. My whole philosophy is about loving your body, self love and self care despite societal expectations. Every body is different and that should be celebrated.
I'd love to find people who are like minded, curious, struggle with weight/body image, have issues surrounding food and/or exercise and would be interested in discussing an alternative approach to the madness that is the diet industry.
Feel free to add me and be part of a loving and supportive community.
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Replies
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Well, I love myself and care about my health enough to have begun watching my calorie intake on MFP. I really don't care about how other people view what they may perceive as my physical "flaws", nor do I blame "society's expectations" for anything. I recognize that some people do care. I do note that I am not comfortable with how large my stomach is, which has nothing to do with self-hate but with the fact that my stamina for exercise and daily activities I enjoy has been negatively impacted by how much weight I am carrying. And then there's that higher cholesterol reading the doctor pointed out to me, and the recommendation I move more and eat less. So I guess I agree with your opinion that people should not hate themselves for being any particular weight. However, I disagree with the statement that restrictive dieting is a poor choice. I am dieting and feel empowered by my discipline and enjoyment of the process, and I have more energy. I don't believe I've been duped by the diet industry, as I'm eating fresh vegetables and other real foods. Every body is different, and I choose to treat mine better than I have before. Do you judge me because I am restricting my caloric intake? How is that any different than people being judgy about someone who appears obese?
Anyway, that's my reaction to your provocative title.10 -
That's nice. What made you think that you'd find enthusiasts of health at any size here?4
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@staceyb4mfp you're not right or wrong and @DebLaBounty you're not right or wrong both of your statements are subjective in order to get your weight down you must restrict your eating to a healthier diet. And I understand what Stacey stated about being happy in your skin, I would assume she means if you're for instance Ashley Graham size she will never be a size zero (she would look like she's sick) her skeleton shape doesn't size up to a smaller Heidi Klum (I might misspelled her name) so each day Ashley is working out she's just eliminating the excess fat and defining muscles she already has. This is my opinion1
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I don't feel that *any* size is healthy. A range, sure, but absolutely any.... no, your body is going to break down if you are way too thin or way too fat.3
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Ummm
Are you just trolling?
I can guarantee that everybody here who spends the time to log and monitor their intake "loves" their body.
People don't do things they "hate".
The person here who is being offensive is you!
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I don't think it's a prerequisite to love your body, but you do need to love yourself. I also think that health at every size is a bunch of bunk. You want proof of that? Go to the hospital and visit with people who are admitted with conditions directly related to their obesity or malnourishment.2
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JeromeBarry1 wrote: »That's nice. What made you think that you'd find enthusiasts of health at any size here?
I am one and I am here in answer to your question; if I am the only one then so be it but given the thousands of members I think it unlikely.0 -
@DebLaBounty You pose an interesting response, and it seems that your perspective is fuelled by wanting to be able to move your body in a way that feels good to you.
There is no right or wrong and I am certainly not judging anyone or their choices, that is simply none of my business. The question is more directly aimed at dieting as a concept and as an industry.
Whilst being in a caloric deficit is indeed how body fat is lost from a physiological standpoint, I am suggesting that diets which incorporate restriction as a long term solution do not work. Forgive me if I am wrong but from your response it sounds as if you are actually adopting new/different/healthy habits into your lifestyle? That sounds wonderful and also great for your mindset, and an approach that will generate a much more sustainable result in ones life as a whole than simply the pursuit of weight loss.0 -
HAES would be great if it were "You do you" but it tends to be "You do you as long as you do you in a way I accept" and so HAES isn't as open as it purports to be.
It's great that you've found a method that works for you but why disparage a weight management method that works for other people (calorie restriction) on a website specifically set up to track calories?7 -
@arrghmatey1 I am not sure that having an opinion and raising a question about an industry is trolling? Parhaps I am wrong but I was under the impression that trolling is a negative thing and yet my entire point is about self love and self care. Is this negative?
In any case I disagree with your point that people don't do things they hate. Nonsense. We all have to do things we'd rather not do in life and speaking to restriction in particular, your point would suggest that even those with diagnosed/undiagnosed eating disorders, disordered eating, exercise bulimia, orthorexia etc love what they are doing? Just a thought.0 -
@nutmegoreo I couldn't agree more, you do not have to love your body. You do not have to do anything. Self love and self care is, in my understanding a deeper level of compassion for ones self as a being in a body as opposed to the physical body itself.
Your opinion about health at every size is very much your right. Nonetheless we'll have to agree to disagree o that point; I don't need to visit any hospitals as I have first hand experience.0 -
@seska422 I absolutely love your point! "You do you" is such a open and free statement, and you raise a very good argument about HAES. I suppose since I don't work for the movement I more enjoy the idea behind it as a way of life.
I might add that we are not all here to manage weight hence raising the question. I can only comment on my own journey and have no real opinion on other individuals or their choices. I like yoga and weight lifting, it's the way I choose to move my body, but to powerlift I need to be sure I'm fuelling myself proportionately to my requirements...enter MFP.0 -
Not a supporter of the HAES movement because as a professional in the business, I've dealt with many a client that though they were athletes, active, etc. in prior years, weight gain reduced their activity as well as increased risk for injury, wear and tear on the body, etc. You WON'T find any Journal of Medicine or Science showing that exceeding an acceptable weight, even if they are competitive athletes, doesn't increase risk for health issues.
While it's NOT right to discriminate against anyone because of their size, you don't have to support their lifestyle either. HAES can lead people to believe they can be healthy even if they are obese, but that's just not supported or true by medical standards. Whitney Thore (My Big Fat Fabulous Life) is now starting to see what her weight is doing to her health and body while being a big supporter of HAES.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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staceyb4mfp wrote: »I can only comment on my own journey and have no real opinion on other individuals or their choices.
That seems to be an opinion that restrictive dieting isn't loving or caring for your body.staceyb4mfp wrote: »Whilst I care about my nutrition, and weight train on a regular basis, I do this for enjoyment and to nourish my body as opposed to hate on it...which I did for so many years.
I cannot stand fad diets, restrictive dieting and nonsense myths about health and fitness. My whole philosophy is about loving your body, self love and self care despite societal expectations. Every body is different and that should be celebrated.
...
an alternative approach to the madness that is the diet industry.1 -
@seska422 You're right. It is. For me.
I have not said at any point that anyone has to do what I say, follow HAES (which in fact research does back), or be/do anything in particular.
Honestly this is exacerbating. The whole point of my post was to express a personal opinion and to offer support to like minded individuals not to instigate argument.0 -
Conversation that makes us question our views is a great thing. You can learn a lot from it. If you have access to some of this research that supports HAES, I'd love to read it.0
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For future reference, if you don't want to instigate an argument, don't have a bait title like "Diets do not work" on a community forum for a website that is, at least in part, about dieting.staceyb4mfp wrote: »@seska422 You're right. It is. For me.
I have not said at any point that anyone has to do what I say, follow HAES (which in fact research does back), or be/do anything in particular.
Honestly this is exacerbating. The whole point of my post was to express a personal opinion and to offer support to like minded individuals not to instigate argument.
As I said before, it's great that you've found a method that works for you. I wish you continued success and hope that you find those like-minded people you are seeking.2 -
Post the research. I for one would love to see the organization backing it and what peer reviewed clinical studies they used to confirm it.staceyb4mfp wrote: »@seska422 You're right. It is. For me.
I have not said at any point that anyone has to do what I say, follow HAES (which in fact research does back), or be/do anything in particular.
There's a GROUPS section you can do that in. Religion discussion isn't allowed on the main forums but fine in the groups section.Honestly this is exacerbating. The whole point of my post was to express a personal opinion and to offer support to like minded individuals not to instigate argument.
Realize though that posting on the main forum, you open yourself up to the community and they have the opportunity to offer their POV.
I'll agree with you about dieting. I believe that the majority of them are just short term, money makers for the sellers.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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@ninerbuff Very true, there are no medical journals supporting that because the research has not been done. I am more interested in the psychological aspect of restriction in any case, and long term assessment of what this does to the body, as opposed to meeting a specific size/weight requirement.
I'd be interested to know what constitutes an 'acceptable' weight? Further to this, I think that in your line of work education is key. Unfortunately people don't seem to have done their research with HAES and appear to link it to promoting being very heavy. Not the case. It is, as you say, about removing weight stigma and body shaming. It is, as with anything, your own perspective that will land the reality of what you do with the information.
Medical journals have not ventured this territory to date, perhaps it would be an idea if they did. There would then at least be balanced research available to the interested individual.0 -
Before anyone makes another argument against the above, please note there is a difference between medical journals, correlation, and causation research.
Not all research is equal, therefore it is up to each individual to check out what's available for themselves.1 -
OP, your title is NOT thought-provoking, it's simply incorrect.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion, just as I am.
As a football official, I stayed in good physical condition during the off season with weight training using low weights with multiple sets of high reps. During the season, chasing kids up & down a football field was excellent cardio.
My cholesterol was under 100, and my blood pressure was generally 122/70.
Then, I got old.
I had to quit officiating after 35 years due to my deteriorating spine; however, my eating habits didn't change.
Viola; I gained 20 pounds; my cholesterol shot up; my BP went up; my bone density decreased.
So, six years ago, I went on a diet via MFP & lost 35 pounds.
My doctor cut my meds because my problems were going away with the excess fat.
The double-edged sword is that my weight loss had improved my health, and I got a new, smaller wardrobe.
Did the diet work? Yes, and I've kept the weight off for 6 years. Therefore, it CONTINUES to work.
Am I healthier at a lower weight? Judging by my Rx intake, and in my doctor's opinion, yes.
My orthopedic doctor told me I'd need knee-replacement surgery on both knees before I turned 65. Well, I'll be 71 next November, and I still have both knees as original equipment. Furthermore, I have no problems at all with them (or any other joints).
Therefore, FOR ME, none of your espoused points are valid.
Sorry.
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There is LOTS of research showing how being overweight and obese INCREASE RISK of health issues. Thousands.staceyb4mfp wrote: »@ninerbuff Very true, there are no medical journals supporting that because the research has not been done.
There are many cultures that restrict certain meats just due to religion. Muslims don't eat pork. Hindus don't eat beef. Just because they restrict these, you'd still be hard pressed identifying whether or not this type of restriction does/doesn't affect the body to an extent of better/worse health.I am more interested in the psychological aspect of restriction in any case, and long term assessment of what this does to the body, as opposed to meeting a specific size/weight requirement.
If you're talking about "frames" of bodies, then one CAN be healthy at any "frame size" as long as they aren't exceeding an acceptable body weight. That body weight would be built around percentage of fat on the person. So for males it's 15-25% and for females it's 20-30%. If one's body fat exceeds those parameters for their bodies, then they start increasing their risk for health issues.I'd be interested to know what constitutes an 'acceptable' weight? Further to this, I think that in your line of work education is key. Unfortunately people don't seem to have done their research with HAES and appear to link it to promoting being very heavy. Not the case. It is, as you say, about removing weight stigma and body shaming. It is, as with anything, your own perspective that will land the reality of what you do with the information.
Again, I'm not understanding what you're speaking of. That Medical journals HAVEN'T examined weight issues and how they affect health and psychology?Medical journals have not ventured this territory to date, perhaps it would be an idea if they did. There would then at least be balanced research available to the interested individual.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition 2 -
Post the research. I for one would love to see the organization backing it and what peer reviewed clinical studies they used to confirm it.staceyb4mfp wrote: »@seska422 You're right. It is. For me.
I have not said at any point that anyone has to do what I say, follow HAES (which in fact research does back), or be/do anything in particular.
There's a GROUPS section you can do that in. Religion discussion isn't allowed on the main forums but fine in the groups section.Honestly this is exacerbating. The whole point of my post was to express a personal opinion and to offer support to like minded individuals not to instigate argument.
Realize though that posting on the main forum, you open yourself up to the community and they have the opportunity to offer their POV.
I'll agree with you about dieting. I believe that the majority of them are just short term, money makers for the sellers.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
See my previous note on research. It's a mistake from my POV to base everything on the medical research currently available. Do you think we know everything already?
In any case I am not interested in the GROUPS section or I would be there, thank you for your suggestion. I was of the impression that this was a COMMUNITY section in which you could meet like minded people. I could be wrong but had I posted saying "I want to lose 50lb" I suspect I'd have had a pat on the back and people wanting to pair up on our journies. No more a personal opinion than the one I actually submitted and yet I haven't had one constructive conversation about the actual topic of interest.
The low key hostile response from those that have raised comment seems to reflect more about personal fears, anxieties and traumas than the argument itself...0 -
@ninerbuff can you please post the names of these medical journals? Can you also tell me where those percentages came from? Can you name me disease that specifically ONLY affects people that fall outside of these parameters? Can you tell me how the average individual measures bfp? Can you name the research that speaks to the psychological wellbeing of those who have been on restrictive weight loss diets after 5 years?
I refuse to comment on your food group restriction as you're talking about religious values but I think it's very clear that I'm talking about weight regulating restriction. Please do not spin the argument.
You have a lot to say about medical research but I have yet to see conclusive evidence of this. I might add that I speak from experience.0 -
We constantly get new information, however we don't need new information debunking that exceeding one's acceptable weight limit doesn't increase health risk. I'll give you a good example. There are lots of people who are great drivers out there even at high speeds. However, when you increase speed in any vehicle, the increase for injury also increases if there's an accident.staceyb4mfp wrote: »
Post the research. I for one would love to see the organization backing it and what peer reviewed clinical studies they used to confirm it.staceyb4mfp wrote: »@seska422 You're right. It is. For me.
I have not said at any point that anyone has to do what I say, follow HAES (which in fact research does back), or be/do anything in particular.
There's a GROUPS section you can do that in. Religion discussion isn't allowed on the main forums but fine in the groups section.Honestly this is exacerbating. The whole point of my post was to express a personal opinion and to offer support to like minded individuals not to instigate argument.
Realize though that posting on the main forum, you open yourself up to the community and they have the opportunity to offer their POV.
I'll agree with you about dieting. I believe that the majority of them are just short term, money makers for the sellers.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
See my previous note on research. It's a mistake from my POV to base everything on the medical research currently available. Do you think we know everything already?
It's the weekend. There's less people on. You MAY find some who may not even contribute on the forums, but may just PM you.In any case I am not interested in the GROUPS section or I would be there, thank you for your suggestion. I was of the impression that this was a COMMUNITY section in which you could meet like minded people. I could be wrong but had I posted saying "I want to lose 50lb" I suspect I'd have had a pat on the back and people wanting to pair up on our journies. No more a personal opinion than the one I actually submitted and yet I haven't had one constructive conversation about the actual topic of interest.
Well the majority of people come on here to lose weight so they may not see your POV.The low key hostile response from those that have raised comment seems to reflect more about personal fears, anxieties and traumas than the argument itself...
Again, I can agree about dieting. I don't think anyone should diet. But I do believe there should be a "restriction" on the amount of calories one consumes or they will gain weight if they surplus. The issue of health care skyrocketing in the US is in direct relation to 65% of the population being overweight or obese. Personally I don't think coddling people and saying that they should accept themselves at their current size helps them to overcome a behavioral issue that's causing them to over consume and continue to pile on weight.
We CANNOT be healthy at every size.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition 1 -
OP, your title is NOT thought-provoking, it's simply incorrect.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion, just as I am.
As a football official, I stayed in good physical condition during the off season with weight training using low weights with multiple sets of high reps. During the season, chasing kids up & down a football field was excellent cardio.
My cholesterol was under 100, and my blood pressure was generally 122/70.
Then, I got old.
I had to quit officiating after 35 years due to my deteriorating spine; however, my eating habits didn't change.
Viola; I gained 20 pounds; my cholesterol shot up; my BP went up; my bone density decreased.
So, six years ago, I went on a diet via MFP & lost 35 pounds.
My doctor cut my meds because my problems were going away with the excess fat.
The double-edged sword is that my weight loss had improved my health, and I got a new, smaller wardrobe.
Did the diet work? Yes, and I've kept the weight off for 6 years. Therefore, it CONTINUES to work.
Am I healthier at a lower weight? Judging by my Rx intake, and in my doctor's opinion, yes.
My orthopedic doctor told me I'd need knee-replacement surgery on both knees before I turned 65. Well, I'll be 71 next November, and I still have both knees as original equipment. Furthermore, I have no problems at all with them (or any other joints).
Therefore, FOR ME, none of your espoused points are valid.
Sorry.
I congratulate your improved health, and it is an unfortunate side effect of aging that the body just will not do what it once did is it not? I am feeling this myself.
You are, however, speaking from personal experience as I am. In my opinion diets do not work, and that is based on my experience.
Also I might add that you cannot tell me I'm entitled to an opinion and that I am wrong and my points invalid in one statement.0 -
:huh:3
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If anyone actually wants to discuss HAES or anything productive from my original post, please add me.
I am quite evidently wasting my time battling useless arguments here. Your opinions are your own, but I'm not here to persuade you or defend myself. I'm here to talk about my personal interest in the topic.
If you disagree that's fine, but if you're not like minded I'm simply not interested. That's all from me.0 -
I'm getting a new start on my health. I have a bad tendency of not committing to my workouts. I feel that I need to have a support system. My fiancée supports me now and then,but she has her issues.0
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staceyb4mfp wrote: »OP, your title is NOT thought-provoking, it's simply incorrect.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion, just as I am.
As a football official, I stayed in good physical condition during the off season with weight training using low weights with multiple sets of high reps. During the season, chasing kids up & down a football field was excellent cardio.
My cholesterol was under 100, and my blood pressure was generally 122/70.
Then, I got old.
I had to quit officiating after 35 years due to my deteriorating spine; however, my eating habits didn't change.
Viola; I gained 20 pounds; my cholesterol shot up; my BP went up; my bone density decreased.
So, six years ago, I went on a diet via MFP & lost 35 pounds.
My doctor cut my meds because my problems were going away with the excess fat.
The double-edged sword is that my weight loss had improved my health, and I got a new, smaller wardrobe.
Did the diet work? Yes, and I've kept the weight off for 6 years. Therefore, it CONTINUES to work.
Am I healthier at a lower weight? Judging by my Rx intake, and in my doctor's opinion, yes.
My orthopedic doctor told me I'd need knee-replacement surgery on both knees before I turned 65. Well, I'll be 71 next November, and I still have both knees as original equipment. Furthermore, I have no problems at all with them (or any other joints).
Therefore, FOR ME, none of your espoused points are valid.
Sorry.
I congratulate your improved health, and it is an unfortunate side effect of aging that the body just will not do what it once did is it not? I am feeling this myself.
You are, however, speaking from personal experience as I am. In my opinion diets do not work, and that is based on my experience.
Also I might add that you cannot tell me I'm entitled to an opinion and that I am wrong and my points invalid in one statement.
Wait.
Diets do not work?
How did you come up with that theory? What even does that mean? Maybe we are totally misunderstanding you, but there are many people in this thread that misunderstand you, then. Perhaps you could state your belief in a more understandable manner.
Tens of thousands of people here have lost hundreds of thousands of pounds by restricting their calorie intake below the amount they would need to maintain whatever weight at which they start.
That is the ONLY way to lose weight. There are many methods of causing that calorie deficit, but to say "diets don't work?"
None of your posts make any sense to me, that's why the :huh:3
This discussion has been closed.
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