Diets do not work
Replies
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cmriverside wrote: »staceyb4mfp wrote: »OP, your title is NOT thought-provoking, it's simply incorrect.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion, just as I am.
As a football official, I stayed in good physical condition during the off season with weight training using low weights with multiple sets of high reps. During the season, chasing kids up & down a football field was excellent cardio.
My cholesterol was under 100, and my blood pressure was generally 122/70.
Then, I got old.
I had to quit officiating after 35 years due to my deteriorating spine; however, my eating habits didn't change.
Viola; I gained 20 pounds; my cholesterol shot up; my BP went up; my bone density decreased.
So, six years ago, I went on a diet via MFP & lost 35 pounds.
My doctor cut my meds because my problems were going away with the excess fat.
The double-edged sword is that my weight loss had improved my health, and I got a new, smaller wardrobe.
Did the diet work? Yes, and I've kept the weight off for 6 years. Therefore, it CONTINUES to work.
Am I healthier at a lower weight? Judging by my Rx intake, and in my doctor's opinion, yes.
My orthopedic doctor told me I'd need knee-replacement surgery on both knees before I turned 65. Well, I'll be 71 next November, and I still have both knees as original equipment. Furthermore, I have no problems at all with them (or any other joints).
Therefore, FOR ME, none of your espoused points are valid.
Sorry.
I congratulate your improved health, and it is an unfortunate side effect of aging that the body just will not do what it once did is it not? I am feeling this myself.
You are, however, speaking from personal experience as I am. In my opinion diets do not work, and that is based on my experience.
Also I might add that you cannot tell me I'm entitled to an opinion and that I am wrong and my points invalid in one statement.
Wait.
Diets do not work?
How did you come up with that theory? What even does that mean? Maybe we are totally misunderstanding you, but there are many people in this thread that misunderstand you, then. Perhaps you could state your belief in a more understandable manner.
Tens of thousands of people here have lost hundreds of thousands of pounds by restricting their calorie intake below the amount they would need to maintain whatever weight at which they start.
That is the ONLY way to lose weight. There are many methods of causing that calorie deficit, but to say "diets don't work?"
None of your posts make any sense to me, that's why the :huh:
I did not come up with the theory, that's kind of the point. From your misguided response you clearly haven't read ALL of my comments to make the statement that none make sense.
I am not your teacher and not, for the last time, here to argue a case. However, I will lay it out for those who haven't commented but may be curious. Of course diets help you lose weight...INITIALLY. I did not dispute that. The problem with diets is that they work, while you're on them, forever, until...you're not. All these thousands of people you mention, how many times have they "dieted" in their life? How many yoyo loops of losing, gaining, losing, gaining? You only have to scroll the feeds on here 2 seconds to see "back again", "3rd time lucky", "help, my last diet didn't work". If specific diets actually worked, for life, the billion dollar diet industry would be out of business. Has anyone stopped to ask these thousands of people what being on constant diets does to their self worth and feeling of value? What impact it has on their lives outside of weight loss? If it has caused any disordered behaviours with food (such as the Minnesota Starvation Experiment Dec 1945). If they have better or worse body image issues?
New fears about weight gain etc etc? No.
There is no medical journal on this stuff because nobody thought to do a study which lasted longer than 5 years. After that only 3% of people who reach their goal weight can maintain it based on the "diet", thus becoming a "diet success". Is it really success if you put your body into a starved state and then have to manipulate food and exercise for the rest of your life to keep it up?
I'm not saying don't lose weight, or don't gain weight. I'm not saying fat is good or bad, or that wanting to improve health or any of the associated benefits is wrong or right. What I am suggesting is that the approach to how and what we eat, how we exercise and how we look is driven fundamentally by society.
Do you know who came up with BMI? It was created by a Belgian statistician/mathematician and astronomer in the 1830s. It's a basic maths formula that was never intended for its current use. Look at the research by Linda Bacon PHD to see how this information was used by 2 major pharmaceutical companies and the Gov't to determine how to carve out body weight categories. In doing so claimed an obesity epidemic of an additional 29million people literally overnight in 1998...in order to keep up with the standard of Europe. It is just a relative formula about mass, so many people are told by doctors that they are overweight based on this; perhaps they are, parhaps they are not.
This is why I have a problem with diets, I did not say I have an issue with weight loss. Restriction can be dangerous for the body and mind long term, the political basis for BMI makes my skin crawl, the money that diet giants and pharmaceutical companies make from us makes me sick. The stigma thrown at people based on their weight and perceived consequential health is alarming. The figures and "facts" we base all of this on are not conclusive and there is no one size fits all, ask Mr medical journals to show you this research...it doesn't exist!
I have been anorexic, had excercise bulemia, hypothalmic ammenorhea, female athlete triad syndrome, ostoperosis, hospitalised for 2 years in my late teens and also been morbidly obese by BMI standards. All so I could look and "feel" a certain way. What I felt was lost, alone, a failure and like I didn't fit in...nit to mention putting my health in danger at both extremes.
I track my intake over a decade later because after many years of diet and exercise abuse I have found peace with my body. I let my body tell me what it needs because I am in tune with that, not how many points or syns the so-called gurus tell me will get me to that magic place. None of that rubbish made me happy and at the base of it all is that not what we want as human beings, to be happy?
I enjoy yoga and powerlifting, several times per week and am involved heavily in health and fitness so want to ensure that I fuel myself properly relevant to my sport. I do not track every morsal as its a negative behaviour for me, I just like a ballpark estimate a few times a week that I'm getting enough of what I need physiologically. I do this because I have fun with it, not because I feel I have to be or to look a certain way. For the first time in over 30 years I've learned how to love living in my body and wanted to share that with like minded people.
I have woken up to this mental money making "diet" culture and I came here to find my community. You, are clearly not my community.
I hope that is comprehensive enough for you as I won't be back again.0 -
I would have no issue with HAES if the H stood for "Happiness" instead of "Health."
But it doesn't.
And the idea that a morbidly obese person can be physically healthy at that weight is absurd. I agree that fat shaming in our society is a very negative and psychologically impactful situation. But there is a vast difference between physical health and mental health. They are not mutually inclusive.8 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »I would have no issue with HAES if the H stood for "Happiness" instead of "Health."
But it doesn't.
And the idea that a morbidly obese person can be physically healthy at that weight is absurd. I agree that fat shaming in our society is a very negative and psychologically impactful situation. But there is a vast difference between physical health and mental health. They are not mutually inclusive.
^What she said.
I am an older individual, and one thing I learned over 40 years about excess weight - it's patient. It waits. Pun intended.
HAES is popular with younger people (and by that I mean in today's understanding of the word of anyone under 50 or so), but time is a harsh taskmaster. All of the healthy habits in the world won't prevent the ticking tomb bomb of obesity from running its natural course. Oh, there are some luck outliers who merely slow down and just die a few years earlier than they would have otherwise and never face diabetes, arthritis, cardio vascular disease, or any of the other complications of obesity.
It's easy to not think of the future when you're 30 or so because it seems so far away, but it's harder when you're in your 50's and everything starts to hurt or you're facing losing a limb due to diabetes.
HAES is a lie. And it tells its followers lies.
Diets (I prefer the term weight management) are successful for people who understand the fundamentals of energy balance and how bodies actually work. The success rates aren't as abysmal as HAES literature tells people they are (True success at maintaining weight loss is about 20% as opposed to 5%).
Please, I understand, since you mentioned syns, your frustration with the commercial diet industry. Many of us using this site share it - but don't turn that frustration into the uselessness of falling for giving up on the notion of maintaining a healthy lifestyle (which includes maintaining a healthy body weight).
Weight management isn't about necessarily following a structured dieting program sold to you by some corporate entity or dieting guru out to make a buck and the alternative isn't to give up and embrace HAES, it's to learn all you can about TDEE, calories in food, foods that satiate you, macro balances that satiate you, recipes for healthy foods that allow you to formulate a sensible eating plan with the appropriate number of calories to reach and maintain a healthy body weight. It's finding an enjoyable and challenging way of exercising your body that you can sustain. It's about forming healthy habits at an appropriate weight for your height.4 -
How about some non-medical research about if "diets" (however you define them) work:
The National Weight Control Registry tracks over 10,000 individuals who have lost significant amounts of weight and kept it off for long periods of time. http://nwcr.ws/default.htm
Some of their research findings (based on 24 years of registering and following up with people):
Registry members have lost an average of 66 lbs and kept it off for 5.5 years.
These averages, however, hide a lot of diversity:- Weight losses have ranged from 30 to 300 lbs.
- Duration of successful weight loss has ranged from 1 year to 66 years!
- Some have lost the weight rapidly, while others have lost weight very slowly--over as many as 14 years
We have also started to learn about how the weight loss was accomplished:- 45% of registry participants lost the weight on their own and the other 55% lost weight with the help of some type of program.
- 98% of Registry participants report that they modified their food intake in some way to lose weight.
- 94% increased their physical activity, with the most frequently reported form of activity being walking.
There is variety in how NWCR members keep the weight off. Most report continuing to maintain a low calorie, low fat diet and doing high levels of activity.- 78% eat breakfast every day.
- 75% weigh themselves at least once a week.
- 62% watch less than 10 hours of TV per week.
- 90% exercise, on average, about 1 hour per day
Yes, diets work and yes, organized weight loss programs work. (but there is no ONE WAY to lose. Each individual needs to find what fits their needs and mindset)
The one thing I agree with HAES about is that your weight should not define you and that you should be the best you can be where you are. I disagree with the concept that you cannot (and should not) try to improve yourself.0 -
No health at any size is not good. Obesity is a leading killer in America. I don't support it. Many if not most people here have to control our calories in vs out because we would like to eat more but know that we will be healthier slimmer.
This app is about making healthy weight changes which is the exact opposite of what you suggest.
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This statement is the reason you "feel" how you feel. This is more a behavioral issue than a diet issue. I won't disagree with some of your analogies, but regardless of whether a person is lean, athletic, strong, weak, etc. is a DIRECT result of their diet plan or regimen. People choose what they want and how they want to look and have to take steps to achieve that. Some more extreme than others, but all in all, the extreme people are only a handful in the population.staceyb4mfp wrote: »I have been anorexic, had excercise bulemia, hypothalmic ammenorhea, female athlete triad syndrome, ostoperosis, hospitalised for 2 years in my late teens and also been morbidly obese by BMI standards. All so I could look and "feel" a certain way. What I felt was lost, alone, a failure and like I didn't fit in...nit to mention putting my health in danger at both extremes.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Thanks for the "explanation."
There is a lot in that post, I'm not interested in debating with you so relax.
I think we agree on most points, however you came on this site with really no idea what this community is about and you post a click-baity post and then don't follow it up with your explanation. So thanks for the elaboration.
HAES is a touchy subject on weight loss/fitness boards. I don't think you understand your audience, is all. You're kind of preaching to the choir here.
I was over weight due to too much life stress, middle age, deaths of family members, loss of my best friend of twenty years and loss of a job. I had been on medication to combat the many stressors at once and gained a lot of weight. I didn't eat too much when I was young, I was always a healthy weight until my mid-forties. I lost 70 pounds in my early fifties (the first time ever losing weight) by counting calories on this website because I knew it was about calories.
There are many helpful and knowledgeable people on these forums. Medical professionals, fitness professionals in the business for decades, physical therapists, medical researchers, too many (IMO) PhDs
, engineers, people who make their living in other sports or fitness or nutrition related fields. A lot of very smart people who understand weight loss and volunteer their time to help newcomers overcome the bro-science and weight-loss industry misdirections and ridiculous "diets". So if anyone wants good, sound advice and takes the time to read through the sticky posts at the tops of the forums - they will come away with the ability to make good healthy decisions about weight loss.
I've kept my weight off for ten years. I don't obsess. It takes me five minutes a day to log my food, and I can tell you how many calories I've eaten without logging, but I enjoy it. I love numbers and spreadsheets and data.
Many of us had to go through the process of wrangling our minds as well as our bodies, but you've been successful and that's all that matters. I'm glad you found what works. I think we all have issues to face in life and it's how we face them that matters. I wish nutrition and health had more emphasis placed on it and that facebook and TV were less important to people. The messages from society about body image are definitely unhealthy for some people.3 -
Can you really claim that you love yourself/your body if you let yourself be exposed to a higher risk of all kinds of diseases and illnesses by being heavily overweight/obese?
Just because a person or a group believes that you can be healthy at every size does not mean it's true. I can believe unicorns and dragons are real all I want - it won't make it any more true.
On the other hand, if you really cared about yourself and really loved your own body, you'd try to get it in the best shape possible. Claiming that diets don't work, or that you can be healthy at every size or whatever other delusional claim people make nowadays, you are simply depriving yourself of the health and quality of life you deserve.0 -
You can't argue with science! Burn more than you put in and you'll lose weight.... Simples ☺️ I have no idea why you'd want to start a thread like this.....0
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This thread is, and was, destined to turn into a thread demonstrating the confusion that a good bit of accidental equivocation will add to a discussion, with a garnish of strawmanning. I didn't realise it was possible to argue over tge phrase 'diets don't work, lifestyle change does' for so many words, without actually saying it outright.
The OP is right: "diets", by the most conventional definition of the word in popular culture, don't work , do they? As in the Cabbage Soup diet, the "Military" diet, any system of having low calorie meal replacement shakes for a few weeks, yeah?
People lose weight in a horribly over-restrictive way and then they go back to their normal way of eating, and for psychological and physical reasons they gain the weight back, and then some.
On the other hand, everyone else is right- diets can work. For example, one form of diet that works is considering your height and activity level, and eating a bit less than you need for a while until you reach the weight you want and then continuing calorie counting in order to increase your intake back up to exactly what you need.
This diet seems to be particularly effective when coupled with increasing your activity levels in a permanent, sustainable way (so not just forcing yourself to go to a Les Mills class you hate, because there will inevitably come a day and then a week when you cannot be bothered to go, which will turn into a year...) and changing your life and habits so that your intake will intuitively be in sync with your output. For example, over the course of the diet, you might go from feeling deprived if you don't order a large pizza with 5 extra toppings twice a week to feeling full and emotionally satisfied with half a pizza accompanied by a load of vegetables, and become capable of saving the other half for breakfast/dinner the next day.
It's all still the results of a diet, though.
I also think I agree with the OP (if I have read her correctly) that starting a diet because you hate your body and find yourself repulsive has poor odds of success. A resolution powered by hatred easily turns into an attempt to punish yourself through deprivation, and people fall off the wagon, face-first into the biscuit barrel.
On the other hand, if you decide that you deserve to be healthier, and you want to have more energy and be able to do particular yoga positions, and then decide this means you're going to make sure your diet provides your essential minerals and vitamins per day? Well, that's improving your diet from a position of self-love, and I bet such people have better rates of adherence and are more likely to achieve their goals.
I have been using MFP, on and off, since November 2015, which isn't very long, I admit. I don't know what I will weigh in five years, but I think it will be the same as now or lighter. I have built better habits, and on almost all my planned diet breaks (where I don't count calories and just eyebal meals), I have stayed the same weight or lost weight slightly.
But it was still a diet.2 -
I think similar to you.
sometimes i go into a supermarket & let my body guide me to what I need that week.☺
It's about relying on your body to tell you what it needs etc.
I recently even thought culture and your history impacts on your diet as well. I'm naturally pulled to medittarean food. But I'm English mixed with Carribean. I recently found out it's possible I have Spanish in me.
Hence why I love Spanish food & culture. When your receptive and in tune, diets, excessive excercise goes out the window. It's all about individualism 1 hat, box doesn't fit all for sure.
I think your talking about & me too an holistic and spiritual approach to life and all that comes with that food and excercise etc
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