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Do you think obese/overweight people should pay more for health insurance?

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Replies

  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 46,337 Member
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    hesn92 wrote: »
    No. Everyone should be entitled to the same level of healthcare. I feel it's a basic human right. It's similar to charging people more who have a pre existing condition. What else, are we going to charge people more who have a genetic predisposition to certain Illnesses?

    Basic human rights would be life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

    You have no right to demand services provided by another individual.
    Wait, isn't that what insurance is though? If someone needed a car repair, they pay their deductible and the "pooled" money from everyone else pays the rest. How is that different than healthcare?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

  • stanmann571
    stanmann571 Posts: 5,736 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    hesn92 wrote: »
    No. Everyone should be entitled to the same level of healthcare. I feel it's a basic human right. It's similar to charging people more who have a pre existing condition. What else, are we going to charge people more who have a genetic predisposition to certain Illnesses?

    Basic human rights would be life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

    You have no right to demand services provided by another individual.
    Wait, isn't that what insurance is though? If someone needed a car repair, they pay their deductible and the "pooled" money from everyone else pays the rest. How is that different than healthcare?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png


    Mostly, nobody has to have car insurance.

    The recent changes in health care law eliminated a number of popular insurance options. Many young professionals and college students were buying packages that provided catastrophic coverage only... No routine prescriptions, no preventative, no dental. $10-25K deductible, no payout cap. for a 25 year old relatively healthy adult that coverage cost a couple hundred dollars a year.

  • stanmann571
    stanmann571 Posts: 5,736 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    There is just ONE reason that healthcare is expensive in the US............................................profit. Until the US becomes a not for profit venture, health care costs for people are just going to keep rising. And really we could have a decent government healthcare system if we diverted money to it. Problem is, taxpayer money is diverted to other profit ventures that benefit people in politics more than it does the people themselves.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    Absolutely NOT! All you need to do is look at the VA and Medicaid/Medicare.
  • toned_thugs_n_harmony
    toned_thugs_n_harmony Posts: 1,001 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    hesn92 wrote: »
    No. Everyone should be entitled to the same level of healthcare. I feel it's a basic human right. It's similar to charging people more who have a pre existing condition. What else, are we going to charge people more who have a genetic predisposition to certain Illnesses?

    Basic human rights would be life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

    You have no right to demand services provided by another individual.
    Wait, isn't that what insurance is though? If someone needed a car repair, they pay their deductible and the "pooled" money from everyone else pays the rest. How is that different than healthcare?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png


    Mostly, nobody has to have car insurance.

    The recent changes in health care law eliminated a number of popular insurance options. Many young professionals and college students were buying packages that provided catastrophic coverage only... No routine prescriptions, no preventative, no dental. $10-25K deductible, no payout cap. for a 25 year old relatively healthy adult that coverage cost a couple hundred dollars a year.

    nobody has to have car insurance? pretty sure it's illegal to drive without it but OK.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    hesn92 wrote: »
    No. Everyone should be entitled to the same level of healthcare. I feel it's a basic human right. It's similar to charging people more who have a pre existing condition. What else, are we going to charge people more who have a genetic predisposition to certain Illnesses?

    Basic human rights would be life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

    You have no right to demand services provided by another individual.
    Wait, isn't that what insurance is though? If someone needed a car repair, they pay their deductible and the "pooled" money from everyone else pays the rest. How is that different than healthcare?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png


    Mostly, nobody has to have car insurance.

    The recent changes in health care law eliminated a number of popular insurance options. Many young professionals and college students were buying packages that provided catastrophic coverage only... No routine prescriptions, no preventative, no dental. $10-25K deductible, no payout cap. for a 25 year old relatively healthy adult that coverage cost a couple hundred dollars a year.

    nobody has to have car insurance? pretty sure it's illegal to drive without it but OK.

    In the US, it depends on the state.
  • Macy9336
    Macy9336 Posts: 694 Member
    Macy9336 wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    lorrpb wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    hesn92 wrote: »
    No. Everyone should be entitled to the same level of healthcare. I feel it's a basic human right. It's similar to charging people more who have a pre existing condition. What else, are we going to charge people more who have a genetic predisposition to certain Illnesses?

    Basic human rights would be life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

    You have no right to demand services provided by another individual.

    Are you saying there is no relationship between healthcare and life?

    Life - as in you have the unalienable right to live your life as you see fit - enjoy the rewards as well as suffer the consequences for your behavior. You have no right to demand services provided by another individual. That would be a clear infringement upon their unalienable rights.

    And yet csar is fine with everyone being entitled to the same level of fire or police services.....that's an exception to his 'you cannot demand services' mantra.

    I can't speak for CSAR, but if those services became Paygo/privatized as they were until the mid 19th century that would be quite alright.

    Citation needed. Police and fire have been public services since Roman times as best I know..courtesy of the vigiles cohorts. After that, the requirement devolved to the feudal overlords who ran their own governments and services within their lands. Eventually as nation states arose, it devolved to the monarchies. Where it is currently.
  • CSARdiver
    CSARdiver Posts: 6,257 Member
    Macy9336 wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    lorrpb wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    hesn92 wrote: »
    No. Everyone should be entitled to the same level of healthcare. I feel it's a basic human right. It's similar to charging people more who have a pre existing condition. What else, are we going to charge people more who have a genetic predisposition to certain Illnesses?

    Basic human rights would be life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

    You have no right to demand services provided by another individual.

    Are you saying there is no relationship between healthcare and life?

    Life - as in you have the unalienable right to live your life as you see fit - enjoy the rewards as well as suffer the consequences for your behavior. You have no right to demand services provided by another individual. That would be a clear infringement upon their unalienable rights.

    And yet csar is fine with everyone being entitled to the same level of fire or police services.....that's an exception to his 'you cannot demand services' mantra.

    Depends on the nation. In the US there is a clear distinction - one of the responsibilities of government is to provide security to the citizens. So in this case this supports and ensures that life, liberty and pursuit of happiness is achievable.

    Law enforcement is an inherent role of government. Healthcare is not.
  • NorthCascades
    NorthCascades Posts: 10,935 Member
    Collecting services you are legally and/or contractually entitled to is not the same thing as being a slave master.
  • CSARdiver
    CSARdiver Posts: 6,257 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    hesn92 wrote: »
    No. Everyone should be entitled to the same level of healthcare. I feel it's a basic human right. It's similar to charging people more who have a pre existing condition. What else, are we going to charge people more who have a genetic predisposition to certain Illnesses?

    Basic human rights would be life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

    You have no right to demand services provided by another individual.
    Wait, isn't that what insurance is though? If someone needed a car repair, they pay their deductible and the "pooled" money from everyone else pays the rest. How is that different than healthcare?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png


    Are you forced to purchase insurance? Does the insurance company send over a law enforcement branch if you don't purchase their product?

    Apples and oranges. Insurance is a free market product.
  • stanmann571
    stanmann571 Posts: 5,736 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    hesn92 wrote: »
    No. Everyone should be entitled to the same level of healthcare. I feel it's a basic human right. It's similar to charging people more who have a pre existing condition. What else, are we going to charge people more who have a genetic predisposition to certain Illnesses?

    Basic human rights would be life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

    You have no right to demand services provided by another individual.
    Wait, isn't that what insurance is though? If someone needed a car repair, they pay their deductible and the "pooled" money from everyone else pays the rest. How is that different than healthcare?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png


    Mostly, nobody has to have car insurance.

    The recent changes in health care law eliminated a number of popular insurance options. Many young professionals and college students were buying packages that provided catastrophic coverage only... No routine prescriptions, no preventative, no dental. $10-25K deductible, no payout cap. for a 25 year old relatively healthy adult that coverage cost a couple hundred dollars a year.

    nobody has to have car insurance? pretty sure it's illegal to drive without it but OK.

    Nobody has to drive!! :)
  • Macy9336
    Macy9336 Posts: 694 Member
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    Macy9336 wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    lorrpb wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    hesn92 wrote: »
    No. Everyone should be entitled to the same level of healthcare. I feel it's a basic human right. It's similar to charging people more who have a pre existing condition. What else, are we going to charge people more who have a genetic predisposition to certain Illnesses?

    Basic human rights would be life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

    You have no right to demand services provided by another individual.

    Are you saying there is no relationship between healthcare and life?

    Life - as in you have the unalienable right to live your life as you see fit - enjoy the rewards as well as suffer the consequences for your behavior. You have no right to demand services provided by another individual. That would be a clear infringement upon their unalienable rights.

    And yet csar is fine with everyone being entitled to the same level of fire or police services.....that's an exception to his 'you cannot demand services' mantra.

    Depends on the nation. In the US there is a clear distinction - one of the responsibilities of government is to provide security to the citizens. So in this case this supports and ensures that life, liberty and pursuit of happiness is achievable.

    Law enforcement is an inherent role of government. Healthcare is not.

    It's true it depends on the nation as different nations have different opinions on human rights and governmental roles. I for one think healthcare is necessary for both life and the pursuit of happiness and by providing the same level to all citizens, it is not unduly impeding the rights of other citizens.
  • CSARdiver
    CSARdiver Posts: 6,257 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    There is just ONE reason that healthcare is expensive in the US............................................profit. Until the US becomes a not for profit venture, health care costs for people are just going to keep rising. And really we could have a decent government healthcare system if we diverted money to it. Problem is, taxpayer money is diverted to other profit ventures that benefit people in politics more than it does the people themselves.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    Every healthcare system is for profit. Are you suggesting that bureaucrats work for free?

    You can never have decent healthcare without a motive of profit. This is the primary reason healthcare costs have risen beyond the rest of the consumer index - deliberate insertion of middlemen (government and insurance).

    If you allowed free market forces to compete then you would not have instances where Epipens rose to prohibitive prices. You would have competitive companies offering products at a reduced price to gain market share. Government is the problem, not the solution.
  • SilverSheWolf55
    SilverSheWolf55 Posts: 95 Member
    edited June 2017
    From my experience, insurance does keep getting more expensive...no matter age, medical history, smoker, non smoker. The company where I work use to have "High Plan" and "Base Plan". After OBAMACARE, the "High Plan" went out the window. Now we have a CDHP PLAN and a Base PPO PLAN . With the CDHP plan, one has to "come up" with $2500.00 "out of pocket" before you will be covered at 100%. I can't afford that. I have to take the Base PPO plan, then come out of pocket $500.00 for only an 80% coverage. I also have a "Flex Spending" plan where I put away $25.00 a paycheck to cover the 20% the insurance doesn't cover. BOTH plans we have to have a Biometric Screening AND Health Assessment by our doctor to even quality for either of the plans. If you don't get this done, you have to pay a higher deductible.

    So as far as my insurance plan, it will cost more IF you do not "fit the criteria". There are "incentives" to help one stop smoking, loose weight, etc. Either go through the steps required, or pay a higher premium and deductible.

    As I said, this is ONLY THROUGH MY EMPLOYER....not sure how others work.
  • CSARdiver
    CSARdiver Posts: 6,257 Member
    Macy9336 wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    lorrpb wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    hesn92 wrote: »
    No. Everyone should be entitled to the same level of healthcare. I feel it's a basic human right. It's similar to charging people more who have a pre existing condition. What else, are we going to charge people more who have a genetic predisposition to certain Illnesses?

    Basic human rights would be life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

    You have no right to demand services provided by another individual.

    Are you saying there is no relationship between healthcare and life?

    Life - as in you have the unalienable right to live your life as you see fit - enjoy the rewards as well as suffer the consequences for your behavior. You have no right to demand services provided by another individual. That would be a clear infringement upon their unalienable rights.

    And yet csar is fine with everyone being entitled to the same level of fire or police services.....that's an exception to his 'you cannot demand services' mantra.

    In the US Supreme Court case Warren v. District of Columbia it was determined that police do not owe a specific duty to provide police services to citizens.

    So in the words of the government - it's nothing more than window dressing.
  • CSARdiver
    CSARdiver Posts: 6,257 Member
    edited June 2017
    Macy9336 wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    Macy9336 wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    lorrpb wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    hesn92 wrote: »
    No. Everyone should be entitled to the same level of healthcare. I feel it's a basic human right. It's similar to charging people more who have a pre existing condition. What else, are we going to charge people more who have a genetic predisposition to certain Illnesses?

    Basic human rights would be life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

    You have no right to demand services provided by another individual.

    Are you saying there is no relationship between healthcare and life?

    Life - as in you have the unalienable right to live your life as you see fit - enjoy the rewards as well as suffer the consequences for your behavior. You have no right to demand services provided by another individual. That would be a clear infringement upon their unalienable rights.

    And yet csar is fine with everyone being entitled to the same level of fire or police services.....that's an exception to his 'you cannot demand services' mantra.

    Depends on the nation. In the US there is a clear distinction - one of the responsibilities of government is to provide security to the citizens. So in this case this supports and ensures that life, liberty and pursuit of happiness is achievable.

    Law enforcement is an inherent role of government. Healthcare is not.

    It's true it depends on the nation as different nations have different opinions on human rights and governmental roles. I for one think healthcare is necessary for both life and the pursuit of happiness and by providing the same level to all citizens, it is not unduly impeding the rights of other citizens.

    You have access to healthcare which cannot be denied. Hospitals are legally obligated to provide services to sustain life.

    The point you seem to be advancing is that one segment of the population wants the other segments of the population to pay for these services. Do those opposing paying have a say in this?
  • NorthCascades
    NorthCascades Posts: 10,935 Member
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    Macy9336 wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    lorrpb wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    hesn92 wrote: »
    No. Everyone should be entitled to the same level of healthcare. I feel it's a basic human right. It's similar to charging people more who have a pre existing condition. What else, are we going to charge people more who have a genetic predisposition to certain Illnesses?

    Basic human rights would be life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

    You have no right to demand services provided by another individual.

    Are you saying there is no relationship between healthcare and life?

    Life - as in you have the unalienable right to live your life as you see fit - enjoy the rewards as well as suffer the consequences for your behavior. You have no right to demand services provided by another individual. That would be a clear infringement upon their unalienable rights.

    And yet csar is fine with everyone being entitled to the same level of fire or police services.....that's an exception to his 'you cannot demand services' mantra.

    In the US Supreme Court case Warren v. District of Columbia it was determined that police do not owe a specific duty to provide police services to citizens.

    So in the words of the government - it's nothing more than window dressing.

    On the other hand police can't legally go on strike, while people with just about any other job title have​ this right.
  • CSARdiver
    CSARdiver Posts: 6,257 Member
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    Macy9336 wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    lorrpb wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    hesn92 wrote: »
    No. Everyone should be entitled to the same level of healthcare. I feel it's a basic human right. It's similar to charging people more who have a pre existing condition. What else, are we going to charge people more who have a genetic predisposition to certain Illnesses?

    Basic human rights would be life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

    You have no right to demand services provided by another individual.

    Are you saying there is no relationship between healthcare and life?

    Life - as in you have the unalienable right to live your life as you see fit - enjoy the rewards as well as suffer the consequences for your behavior. You have no right to demand services provided by another individual. That would be a clear infringement upon their unalienable rights.

    And yet csar is fine with everyone being entitled to the same level of fire or police services.....that's an exception to his 'you cannot demand services' mantra.

    In the US Supreme Court case Warren v. District of Columbia it was determined that police do not owe a specific duty to provide police services to citizens.

    So in the words of the government - it's nothing more than window dressing.

    On the other hand police can't legally go on strike, while people with just about any other job title have​ this right.

    What are they striking from? They have no legal obligation to provide services.

    I say this as a veteran sworn officer. Note the vast majority of us take our oaths to protect and serve very seriously. It is the political class we are at constant odds with.
  • ciscoperator
    ciscoperator Posts: 2 Member
    I'd say no. Once you start down the path of limiting healthcare on being overweight, it can follow on to DNA testing for genetic disorders and being charged more for e.g. a great-aunt that developed glaucoma or had sickle-cell anaemia.
    We're better off keeping the simple system of universal healthcare where we pay the ~€100 per month with a deductible of €385 (though that keeps going up by around 15 euro each year), where the services of the healthcare provider are provided as part of the insurance (doctor, nurse, surgeon etc.) but the fees paid are for medicines and appliances. But I guess most answering your question aren't in The Netherlands.