Caloric surplus vs Defecit & Losing fat while gaining muscle. Lost in between, please help!
sizarek7
Posts: 2 Member
I'm having an issue drawing a line in the sand when it comes to caloric surplus' and deficits. I started hitting the gym about 5 months ago and until about a month and a half ago I was doing a 3 day a week split where I hit every muscle once. I am now on a four day split; Chest/Tricep, Back/Bicep, Shoulders, Legs. My workouts always feel great and I increase my weight whenever I can, and I rotate in and out exercises about every 4 weeks. I use a 4x8-12 rep scheme. However until about 2 weeks ago I felt as though I wasn't building muscle, so I decided to increase my caloric intake. I wasn't keeping tabs before so I would estimate myself at a deficit of about 500 under my maintenance number. About a week ago I increased to about 500 OVER my maint. number and I now feel as though I am starting to bloat. My goal (silly as it is) is a six pack. Currently, if I flex hard I have 4 visible abs. I'm just worried that in a non flexed state I don't look much Like I lift. Will this come with time? Is there anything I can work on? There is so much back and forth on the net about deficits vs surpluses and which is required to build that 6 pack. I am 6' 3" and weigh 180. Id estimate my BF % to be around 17. I lost about 20 pounds in the first two months of weight training and I believe I am ready to bulk up. I just need some general advice or at least reassurance that I am somewhat on the right track. Thanks!
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To add significant muscle mass, you have to be in a surplus...you will add both fat and muscle which is why body builders then cut (deficit) to reduce body fat and reveal the muscles they have built.
A 6 pack requires two things...having the muscles, and being really lean (single digits). If you're truly at 17% BF, you shouldn't bulk...most people will start a bulk at around 10%...maybe 12% as you want to maximize the amount of time you can bulk before you have to cut again. Also, hormonally 17% isn't optimal for maximizing muscle building in a surplus...3 -
awesome. Thank you. I feel so close to the "right path" I just need a little guidance. So where should I ideally be at with my calorie intake?0
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If you are new to lifting, drop the split you are doing and get on a structured 3day full body or 4 day upper lower. Working muscles 1x a week is highly inefficient.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p10 -
I agree with the excellent advice already given. Cut to 10% ish with a moderate deficit and an established, progressive, full body program and only then look into bulking.
Entering a bulk with lower BF% will mean that more of your weight increase will be muscle than doing the same with a greater BF%.0 -
1 switch to a better program. 3x full body.
2 at your stats you don't have a ton of muscle. I would recomp or run a very small deficit.
You say your goal is a 6 pack, but how much do you care about having muscle in general?0 -
StealthHealth wrote: »I agree with the excellent advice already given. Cut to 10% ish with a moderate deficit and an established, progressive, full body program and only then look into bulking.
Entering a bulk with lower BF% will mean that more of your weight increase will be muscle than doing the same with a greater BF%.
This...
And why are you only hitting legs once a week?0 -
Don't mean to jack the thread but I'm 6ft 173lbs (was 203lbs) in January. I'm 14% bf and the only way i can see my abs is if I pull on my lower fat to tighten it up. Should I drop another 5lbs and look like Skeletor at 168lbs or start to bulk?0
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I would suggest you do not cut.
I'm gonna assume you're young for two reasons, that your 6'3 and 180 pounds, I'm not sure there are many older men who have those stats and that you say you are mostly worried about a six pack.
So if my assumption is right that you are younger, I wouldn't cut and just eat at maintenance and find a routine you enjoy that hits all muscle groups 2-3 time a week to start whether that's full body 3x/week or a Push/Pull/Legs, or some other routine, just workout hard and eat enough to grow.1 -
Don't mean to jack the thread but I'm 6ft 173lbs (was 203lbs) in January. I'm 14% bf and the only way i can see my abs is if I pull on my lower fat to tighten it up. Should I drop another 5lbs and look like Skeletor at 168lbs or start to bulk?
I'm 6' myself. 168 will not have you looking like Skeletor. My personal ideal weight is 165, though I'm cutting deeper down to 155 to try and get my BF to 12% so I can have a more effective bulk.0 -
I'm having an issue drawing a line in the sand when it comes to caloric surplus' and deficits. I started hitting the gym about 5 months ago and until about a month and a half ago I was doing a 3 day a week split where I hit every muscle once. I am now on a four day split; Chest/Tricep, Back/Bicep, Shoulders, Legs. My workouts always feel great and I increase my weight whenever I can, and I rotate in and out exercises about every 4 weeks. I use a 4x8-12 rep scheme. However until about 2 weeks ago I felt as though I wasn't building muscle, so I decided to increase my caloric intake. I wasn't keeping tabs before so I would estimate myself at a deficit of about 500 under my maintenance number. About a week ago I increased to about 500 OVER my maint. number and I now feel as though I am starting to bloat. My goal (silly as it is) is a six pack. Currently, if I flex hard I have 4 visible abs. I'm just worried that in a non flexed state I don't look much Like I lift. Will this come with time? Is there anything I can work on? There is so much back and forth on the net about deficits vs surpluses and which is required to build that 6 pack. I am 6' 3" and weigh 180. Id estimate my BF % to be around 17. I lost about 20 pounds in the first two months of weight training and I believe I am ready to bulk up. I just need some general advice or at least reassurance that I am somewhat on the right track. Thanks!
I agree with what the guy said above my post. First of all stop estimating stuff. Log in your food intake, it's easy to do on here. Second, weigh yourself once a week or once every two weeks, take pictures, and just buy a body fat measuring device, if your bf % goes down once every other week and your weight increases or stays the same that's amazing, it won't happen, both will go up which is normal. Don't worry about the six pack, if you're trying to impress the ladies while they are impressed by abs they are impressed with overall muscular dudes. You need to have everything, big broad shoulders, big traps, wide back, decent chest, and arms, girls love a guy with big arms. Once you bulk to a 16-17%, slowly start to cut. You should aim to gain 0.5-1 lb per week using MFP, so I think 500 surplus or deficit is a bit too much to start with. Be patient developing a muscular body takes time and if you're young it takes time to get size, you'll get those newbie strength gains but that will come before size. Also challenge yourself, try to hit Personal bests don't be afraid to bump up the weight on some exercises and crank out 4-6 reps. I know everyone says do 8-12, but challenge your muscles. Every set should go close to failure except warm up sets. Do your compound major lifts, Dead lift, Squat, Overhead Military Press, Bench Press, Rows, Lat pull downs, Shrugs, add in some Dips (weighted), Pull ups (weighted), flys, and arm work (bis and tris), focus more on the bigger muscles groups as those will help build your arms already. SLEEP AND DRINK WATER! These are MAJOR, remember muscles build outside of the gym, and we tear muscles down IN the gym. So all of the things you do outside of the gym have a PROFOUND affect on muscle growth and development. I'm talking to you from experience because I've been in your shoes. I'm open to listening to anyone else that would like to add to what I'm saying, but I feel like I hit most of the key points for the OP?0 -
I'm having an issue drawing a line in the sand when it comes to caloric surplus' and deficits. I started hitting the gym about 5 months ago and until about a month and a half ago I was doing a 3 day a week split where I hit every muscle once. I am now on a four day split; Chest/Tricep, Back/Bicep, Shoulders, Legs. My workouts always feel great and I increase my weight whenever I can, and I rotate in and out exercises about every 4 weeks. I use a 4x8-12 rep scheme. However until about 2 weeks ago I felt as though I wasn't building muscle, so I decided to increase my caloric intake. I wasn't keeping tabs before so I would estimate myself at a deficit of about 500 under my maintenance number. About a week ago I increased to about 500 OVER my maint. number and I now feel as though I am starting to bloat. My goal (silly as it is) is a six pack. Currently, if I flex hard I have 4 visible abs. I'm just worried that in a non flexed state I don't look much Like I lift. Will this come with time? Is there anything I can work on? There is so much back and forth on the net about deficits vs surpluses and which is required to build that 6 pack. I am 6' 3" and weigh 180. Id estimate my BF % to be around 17. I lost about 20 pounds in the first two months of weight training and I believe I am ready to bulk up. I just need some general advice or at least reassurance that I am somewhat on the right track. Thanks!
I agree with what the guy said above my post. First of all stop estimating stuff. Log in your food intake, it's easy to do on here. Second, weigh yourself once a week or once every two weeks, take pictures, and just buy a body fat measuring device, if your bf % goes down once every other week and your weight increases or stays the same that's amazing, it won't happen, both will go up which is normal. Don't worry about the six pack, if you're trying to impress the ladies while they are impressed by abs they are impressed with overall muscular dudes. You need to have everything, big broad shoulders, big traps, wide back, decent chest, and arms, girls love a guy with big arms. Once you bulk to a 16-17%, slowly start to cut. You should aim to gain 0.5-1 lb per week using MFP, so I think 500 surplus or deficit is a bit too much to start with. Be patient developing a muscular body takes time and if you're young it takes time to get size, you'll get those newbie strength gains but that will come before size. Also challenge yourself, try to hit Personal bests don't be afraid to bump up the weight on some exercises and crank out 4-6 reps. I know everyone says do 8-12, but challenge your muscles. Every set should go close to failure except warm up sets. Do your compound major lifts, Dead lift, Squat, Overhead Military Press, Bench Press, Rows, Lat pull downs, Shrugs, add in some Dips (weighted), Pull ups (weighted), flys, and arm work (bis and tris), focus more on the bigger muscles groups as those will help build your arms already. SLEEP AND DRINK WATER! These are MAJOR, remember muscles build outside of the gym, and we tear muscles down IN the gym. So all of the things you do outside of the gym have a PROFOUND affect on muscle growth and development. I'm talking to you from experience because I've been in your shoes. I'm open to listening to anyone else that would like to add to what I'm saying, but I feel like I hit most of the key points for the OP?
Two things I would point out. Those who are knowledgeable, would not say stay in the 8-12 rep range, but rather you should work in a variety of ranges to address both strength, power and hypertrophy. Once you get pasted the beginner phase (which generally has a larger focus on low rep/height weight), you will see many programs address a variety of rep/weight schemes. In general, ranging from 50-85% of 1RM.
Second, I'd argue and I have seen people like Dr. Layne Norton and others argue, that you do not need to hit failure for your reps/sets. And while you can, I would limit it to the last set. The goal should be to maximize the total volume and TUT. If you hit failure every set, you are going to hinder the latter sets/moves which could impact total volume.1
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