Squats - barbell/smith machine
alondrakayy
Posts: 304 Member
Would there be any difference in the two in terms of progress and effectiveness? I feel like I have a better range of motion with the smith machine and with the barbell I'm sort of all over the place. Well, they don't look as clean as my squats with the smith. Especially when it's time to go heavy.
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alondrakayy wrote: »Would there be any difference in the two in terms of progress and effectiveness? I feel like I have a better range of motion with the smith machine and with the barbell I'm sort of all over the place. Well, they don't look as clean as my squats with the smith. Especially when it's time to go heavy.
Start lighter, fix your form. Don't go heavy until your form on the free barbell is as clean as the smith machine.
Use your Cell phone camera to get video.6 -
Yes there will be a difference in your progress and effectiveness. Smith machine squats negate the need for stabilizer muscles, hence the reason why you feel more stable on the Smith Machine. Working up slowly with the barbell so you strengthen your abs and all stabilizer muscles is more effective. As those muscles get stronger and you work on mobility, your depth and ROM will increase.8
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So much difference in both! I started out using the Smith because I didn't have access to a real rack. Actually ended up hurting my knee and lower back due to lack of ROM of the machine. When I was able to join a gym with a real rack and barbell, I had to deload from the Smith weight in order to maintain good form. I had (thankfully) worked on my core and was able to quickly progress back up in weight. If you have access to both, I would recommend ditching the Smith and working on your form with the barbell before you progress.4
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alondrakayy wrote: »Would there be any difference in the two in terms of progress and effectiveness? I feel like I have a better range of motion with the smith machine and with the barbell I'm sort of all over the place. Well, they don't look as clean as my squats with the smith. Especially when it's time to go heavy.
yes, as others said - complete difference - that is why you find one so much harder than the other! start light with barbell squats until you have your form down and then increase...1 -
Dang it. Thanks y'all! I'll stick with the barbell and maybe just work on my form a little more.3
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alondrakayy wrote: »Dang it. Thanks y'all! I'll stick with the barbell and maybe just work on my form a little more.
Form is more important than weight, you can do it!2 -
Huge difference....and most people who use a smith machine actually end up with really *kitten* form...
Get under a barbell...practice form before weight...starting light will both help you with form as well as training your tendons/ligaments, and smaller "helper" muscles which don't catch up as fast as your larger muscles. One of the issues with going too heavy too soon is not only form...but people end up getting tendinitis and such because their larger muscles can handle the weight, but the tendons are under trained.0 -
Yep, go with the barbell, like others have said!! It took me a bit to get my form right and a stance that worked good for me, but once I did it felt great!! Just keep at it, you'll start building that weight up in no time!!!0
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Smith Machine squats
Barbell squats
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The only concern I really have.. is that I'm constantly trying to improve my form (with BB) and I keep myself from adding more weight like I do with every other exercise. So, I feel that when even with great form, once I add like 5-10 lbs I have to again work on form with this new weight load. Just takes longer than I felt like it would on the smith machine. Glad I asked before switching before I would of been horribly wrong.
I really wish I was comfortable recording myself. Maybe when the gym is empty I will. Machines in my gym are very close to others making it hard to record myself and not record others in the background.0 -
alondrakayy wrote: »Dang it. Thanks y'all! I'll stick with the barbell and maybe just work on my form a little more.
this ^
dont worry about adding weight, its not about the number on the bar, its most about your form and technique. the weight will come once your form is good. This is what lifting and progression is all about . And with a less weight proper form you will actually get a better workout than heavy weights all over the place. Don't use the smith machine , its really a lousy piece of equip.0 -
alondrakayy wrote: »The only concern I really have.. is that I'm constantly trying to improve my form (with BB) and I keep myself from adding more weight like I do with every other exercise. So, I feel that when even with great form, once I add like 5-10 lbs I have to again work on form with this new weight load. Just takes longer than I felt like it would on the smith machine. Glad I asked before switching before I would of been horribly wrong.
I really wish I was comfortable recording myself. Maybe when the gym is empty I will. Machines in my gym are very close to others making it hard to record myself and not record others in the background.
that's the whole idea...it isn't a race! take your time with each weight until you can work your way up in weight..then start again and repeat!
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I set my phone against a dumbbell on the floor, positioned to record. No one notices...or no one cares that I am recording myself.
You aren't hogging all the mirrors, flexing, and taking selfies in the middle of the gym. That's kind of silly. Recording yourself to check form and depth is important.
ETA: If you are worried about catching other ppl in the background, just delete after you watch. No one can get confrontational with you then.0 -
2 completely different exercises. Smith machine squats are equivalent to a standing leg press. DO NOT squat on the smith like you would with a barbell, your legs need to be much further forward with the smith.0
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Does your gym have smaller weights than 2.5 lbs for barbell or micro weights? I found the gyms here only think people will go up a minimum of 5 lbs on barbell lifts. Micro plates are used by some of the strong dudes as they are already squating 600 lbs+ and even a 1/2 lbs increase for them keeps them on a linear progression. When my linear progression slows down I likely will buy a set as they are less than $50 on amazon.
My opinion on machines is not good. I hate isolation exercises and machines that limit your body's self stabilizing effect. I know they have a place in most programs but not for what I am after. All those machines in the gym take up space that could be better used on squat racks and platforms for deadlifts and olympic lifts.
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Both have their benefits.
Like others have said free standing barbell squats will require more balance and causing your muscles to work together.
At the same time, you dont need to stop using the smith machine. You could do a couple sets of the barbell squat to work on form and sort of a warm-up until the weight increases and then move onto some work on the leg press or smith machine to help build your leg strenght.2 -
alondrakayy wrote: »The only concern I really have.. is that I'm constantly trying to improve my form (with BB) and I keep myself from adding more weight like I do with every other exercise. So, I feel that when even with great form, once I add like 5-10 lbs I have to again work on form with this new weight load.
could just be because i've had so much more work to do on my own form than i ever expected, but i've really come to value that as a measure of progress in its own right.
you could also consider this idea: if the amount you're increasing by is seriously disrupting your form then you might be increasing a little too aggressively right now. so another way of approaching it would be to either
- add less weight each time but keep doing whatever set/rep range you have.
- or add weight less often, but do your 'progressing' by adding an extra rep to the sets for a few more workouts before you move up.
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I used a smith machine before I had access to a barbell. It is a world of difference and if you have a choice, definitely go with free weights! You will just have to learn everything over again otherwise
![:\](https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
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Every squat session should be an opportunity to work your form... I am using the StrongLifts 5x5... it's a solid lift program for beginners... check it out... lifting heavy isn't just about heaving weights like a x- fit program paramount is safety... be slow and methodical about your progress otherwise you risk injury and sidelining your self... lighter weight fewer sets with higher reps periodically will lock the motion into muscle memory and don't ever skip a quick 5-10 minute cardio to get the blood flowing, and some stretching beforehand THEN do 3-5 warm up sets with much lighter weights than the working sets... my squat session from start to finish is almost 45 minutes. Be patient play for the long term gains1
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Big difference!
If possible barbell squats are the best choice.0 -
Hopefully this will post. Went to the gym late at night. Any tips will be great!!! I had the bench press behind me for guidance but only really used it the first few sets (warm up). It's still visible thanks to the mirror but not directly under my bottom.1 -
Form looks good, can't see your feet but just make sure your knees aren't going past your toe. Maybe try and use a bit more hip drive coming out of the bottom but it looks very good.alondrakayy wrote: »
Hopefully this will post. Went to the gym late at night. Any tips will be great!!! I had the bench press behind me for guidance but only really used it the first few sets (warm up). It's still visible thanks to the mirror but not directly under my bottom.
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Form looks good, can't see your feet but just make sure your knees aren't going past your toe. Maybe try and use a bit more hip drive coming out of the bottom but it looks very good.alondrakayy wrote: »
Hopefully this will post. Went to the gym late at night. Any tips will be great!!! I had the bench press behind me for guidance but only really used it the first few sets (warm up). It's still visible thanks to the mirror but not directly under my bottom.
On high bar squats "make sure knees aren't past toes " is not possible for most people. One would have to have a long torso and short femurs which the OP doesn't.
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Form looks good, can't see your feet but just make sure your knees aren't going past your toe. Maybe try and use a bit more hip drive coming out of the bottom but it looks very good.alondrakayy wrote: »
Hopefully this will post. Went to the gym late at night. Any tips will be great!!! I had the bench press behind me for guidance but only really used it the first few sets (warm up). It's still visible thanks to the mirror but not directly under my bottom.
On high bar squats "make sure knees aren't past toes " is not possible for most people. One would have to have a long torso and short femurs which the OP doesn't.
If by "most people" you mean people who don't workout or people who squat with improper form, then yes I agree0 -
Form looks good, can't see your feet but just make sure your knees aren't going past your toe. Maybe try and use a bit more hip drive coming out of the bottom but it looks very good.alondrakayy wrote: »
Hopefully this will post. Went to the gym late at night. Any tips will be great!!! I had the bench press behind me for guidance but only really used it the first few sets (warm up). It's still visible thanks to the mirror but not directly under my bottom.
On high bar squats "make sure knees aren't past toes " is not possible for most people. One would have to have a long torso and short femurs which the OP doesn't.
If by "most people" you mean people who don't workout or people who squat with improper form, then yes I agree
Nothing wrong with knees past toes.
Unless you're talking about collapsing or bowing. But as long as the knee stays above the 3rd and 4th toe, depth and extension isn't that important.2 -
I would say I have improved the whole knees past toes thing, but honestly with being 5ft 7in I haven't been able to successfully squat without passing toes just a tad bit. Even without any weight! It's gotten A LOT better though, so maybe one day soon I will.
Thank you all for your input. Don't know where I'd be without this community.0 -
Another version of the squat is the low bar squat. I have trouble because of shoulder getting into right position but you might be able to do it. Here is one of the best strength coaches teaching it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhVC_AnZYYM 0 -
As far as I can see from that angle your form looks good.
In person I'd want to get a look at your feet during the move for heels lifting, foot rolling inwards during the drive up (both something that you need to avoid), and to ensure that you have the feet width and angle in the starting position to help you get lower at the bottom of the squat (not that you have a particular issue with depth but rather that you shouldn't be going any shallower than current).
I don't get stressed about the knees over the toes argument - for some people that is a good training tool to ensure that they don't tilt forward in the lift, for others (because of relative femur length) it's practically impossible to stop them from doing it - and in that second case, given everything else is as it should be the lift will be safe.
Something that I always look for is bar path. From the side the path of the end of the bar should be straight down and straight up. If there is wiggle that is, for me, an indication that something is wrong and then it's a case of finding out what - from the angle of you video, your bar path looks straight to me but it's not an ideal angle to make that judgement.0 -
Take off your shoes. It will give you a stable platform, and your form will follow. I second the video posted by Okiludy. Most of the advice above will be nearly impossible if you are fighting just to stay balanced. Google 'Starting Strength' and dig in.
Helpful article:
http://startingstrength.com/article/squat-mechanics-a-clarification0 -
heyfathead wrote: »Take off your shoes. It will give you a stable platform, and your form will follow. I second the video posted by Okiludy. Most of the advice above will be nearly impossible if you are fighting just to stay balanced. Google 'Starting Strength' and dig in.
Helpful article:
http://startingstrength.com/article/squat-mechanics-a-clarification
I know what you're saying but I'd point out that for many (myself included) a bare foot, good form squat is impossible - I simply do not have the ankle mobility, and that immobility is not something that will be fixed (but can be improved) by stretching or flexing, it's a bio mechanical impingement.
So, when I squat I must elevate the heel by either using a block or plate, or squatting in weightlifting shoes. I use the shoes because blocks or plates are difficult and potentially dangerous.
Having said that, I think your advice is spot on with the qualification of "if you have the mobility".... barefoot work can help you to develop a good stable base in the squat which will carry over into the lift when wearing shoes.0
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