Ketogenic Diet?
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Tried Keto. Loved it at first, so much energy.. but cutting out all the carbs that I love so much, not eating fruits, made me miserable.. the keto substitutes such as fake pancakes, muffins, just didn't do it for me. Got tired of eating fat. I've switched to OMAD- and I'm really loving it right now. Get it eat anything I want but just in one meal. Working much better for me. Fasting works much better for my lifestyle.0
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I'm diabetic have been since the early 1990's. I started eating Keto summer of 2016. It's done wonders for my A1c and I have lost 31 pounds I now have the hope of kicking diabetes. Don't be intimidated there are plenty of resources out there. Keto has been a God send.1
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cerise_noir wrote: »CarolynNotary wrote: »I was put on the ketogenic diet by my endo 30 years ago for pre diabetes. I am so glad. I have watched all my friends grow fat, ill, and some even die. I am 58 years old now, and still slender, energetic and perfectly healthy. My health is not genetic because my sisters are both heavy now. This is the fountain of youth. I have eggs, bacon, chicken, beef, lamb pork. I eat until I am full and I can go for hours without needing to eat. I am NEVER going back to poisonous carbs.
Poisonous? Here's a definition of poison:
poi·son
ˈpoiz(ə)n/
noun
1.
a substance that is capable of causing the illness or death of a living organism when introduced or absorbed.
synonyms: toxin, toxicant, venom; archaicbane
"a deadly poison"
No, just no.
Oh, those poisonous carbs. I had a giant salad with breakfast involving spring greens, red onions, cucumbers, and even a (gasp!) peach I added to it. Then I picked up my CSA box filled with poison carbs, of course, and even switched out one (a zucchini, since I have tons of zucchini and there were multiple ones in the box) for an extra fennel, since fennel is one of my favorites. How alarming.
Also in the box (among many other poison carbs) was a bunch of carrots. Evil carrots.
10 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »cerise_noir wrote: »CarolynNotary wrote: »I was put on the ketogenic diet by my endo 30 years ago for pre diabetes. I am so glad. I have watched all my friends grow fat, ill, and some even die. I am 58 years old now, and still slender, energetic and perfectly healthy. My health is not genetic because my sisters are both heavy now. This is the fountain of youth. I have eggs, bacon, chicken, beef, lamb pork. I eat until I am full and I can go for hours without needing to eat. I am NEVER going back to poisonous carbs.
Poisonous? Here's a definition of poison:
poi·son
ˈpoiz(ə)n/
noun
1.
a substance that is capable of causing the illness or death of a living organism when introduced or absorbed.
synonyms: toxin, toxicant, venom; archaicbane
"a deadly poison"
No, just no.
Oh, those poisonous carbs. I had a giant salad with breakfast involving spring greens, red onions, cucumbers, and even a (gasp!) peach I added to it. Then I picked up my CSA box filled with poison carbs, of course, and even switched out one (a zucchini, since I have tons of zucchini and there were multiple ones in the box) for an extra fennel, since fennel is one of my favorites. How alarming.
Also in the box (among many other poison carbs) was a bunch of carrots. Evil carrots.
Haha! I think they were talking about processed carbs such as the muffins, cake, cookies, and cupcakes I've been stuffing my face with lately. I have been slowly killing myself with poisonous carbs! What am I to do??2 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »cerise_noir wrote: »CarolynNotary wrote: »I was put on the ketogenic diet by my endo 30 years ago for pre diabetes. I am so glad. I have watched all my friends grow fat, ill, and some even die. I am 58 years old now, and still slender, energetic and perfectly healthy. My health is not genetic because my sisters are both heavy now. This is the fountain of youth. I have eggs, bacon, chicken, beef, lamb pork. I eat until I am full and I can go for hours without needing to eat. I am NEVER going back to poisonous carbs.
Poisonous? Here's a definition of poison:
poi·son
ˈpoiz(ə)n/
noun
1.
a substance that is capable of causing the illness or death of a living organism when introduced or absorbed.
synonyms: toxin, toxicant, venom; archaicbane
"a deadly poison"
No, just no.
Oh, those poisonous carbs. I had a giant salad with breakfast involving spring greens, red onions, cucumbers, and even a (gasp!) peach I added to it. Then I picked up my CSA box filled with poison carbs, of course, and even switched out one (a zucchini, since I have tons of zucchini and there were multiple ones in the box) for an extra fennel, since fennel is one of my favorites. How alarming.
Also in the box (among many other poison carbs) was a bunch of carrots. Evil carrots.
Haha! I think they were talking about processed carbs such as the muffins, cake, cookies, and cupcakes I've been stuffing my face with lately. I have been slowly killing myself with poisonous carbs! What am I to do??
Poison aside (as I don't think flour and sugar and butter are poison -- I believe there was a poster a while back who had suspicions about baking soda, however), that's a pet peeve of mine, since all of those are about half fat, half carbs. Why think of them as carbs rather than foods that are much higher carb by percentage, like my carrot, or the peach I had this morning?
I know, I'm tilting at windmills. ;-)3 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »cerise_noir wrote: »CarolynNotary wrote: »I was put on the ketogenic diet by my endo 30 years ago for pre diabetes. I am so glad. I have watched all my friends grow fat, ill, and some even die. I am 58 years old now, and still slender, energetic and perfectly healthy. My health is not genetic because my sisters are both heavy now. This is the fountain of youth. I have eggs, bacon, chicken, beef, lamb pork. I eat until I am full and I can go for hours without needing to eat. I am NEVER going back to poisonous carbs.
Poisonous? Here's a definition of poison:
poi·son
ˈpoiz(ə)n/
noun
1.
a substance that is capable of causing the illness or death of a living organism when introduced or absorbed.
synonyms: toxin, toxicant, venom; archaicbane
"a deadly poison"
No, just no.
Oh, those poisonous carbs. I had a giant salad with breakfast involving spring greens, red onions, cucumbers, and even a (gasp!) peach I added to it. Then I picked up my CSA box filled with poison carbs, of course, and even switched out one (a zucchini, since I have tons of zucchini and there were multiple ones in the box) for an extra fennel, since fennel is one of my favorites. How alarming.
Also in the box (among many other poison carbs) was a bunch of carrots. Evil carrots.
*sniff* RIP..
To that delicious sounding but obviously poisonous concoction! :laugh:
I love fennel as well (especially roasted or in the form of taralli.)
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Keto is good for children with epilepsy. Otherwise it offers no benefit over low carb diets.
Ketogenic low-carbohydrate diets have no metabolic advantage over nonketogenic low-carbohydrate diets
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/83/5/1055.abstract
Am I missing something? 20 people...Six week study. That hardly seems comprehensive or conclusive to me.1 -
Keto is good for children with epilepsy. Otherwise it offers no benefit over low carb diets.
Ketogenic low-carbohydrate diets have no metabolic advantage over nonketogenic low-carbohydrate diets
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/83/5/1055.abstract
Am I missing something? 20 people...Six week study. That hardly seems comprehensive or conclusive to me.
Would you prefer the two metabolic ward studies done by Kevin Hall to support the same conclusion?7 -
Keto is good for children with epilepsy. Otherwise it offers no benefit over low carb diets.
Ketogenic low-carbohydrate diets have no metabolic advantage over nonketogenic low-carbohydrate diets
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/83/5/1055.abstract
Am I missing something? 20 people...Six week study. That hardly seems comprehensive or conclusive to me.
Would you prefer the two metabolic ward studies done by Kevin Hall to support the same conclusion?
I would prefer to see an objective study with more subjects over a much longer period of time.0 -
I did keto for about a year and lost 40 pounds, and that was with lots of good vegetables, protein and a few fruits but rarely any breads or grains. Now I'm simply lower carb and the only difference is that I eat more fruit now. I still do not eat many desserts or breads/grains/pastas. I have avoided medications for both type 2 diabetes and high blood pressure. This is all under the advisement of my doctor. The only portion I did not like about keto was *very* high fat but that's just because those types of foods don't always appeal to me, so I'm more moderate with that now.2
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Keto is good for children with epilepsy. Otherwise it offers no benefit over low carb diets.
Ketogenic low-carbohydrate diets have no metabolic advantage over nonketogenic low-carbohydrate diets
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/83/5/1055.abstract
Am I missing something? 20 people...Six week study. That hardly seems comprehensive or conclusive to me.
Would you prefer the two metabolic ward studies done by Kevin Hall to support the same conclusion?
I would prefer to see an objective study with more subjects over a much longer period of time.
Outside of observation studies, you wont see that, but they lend themselves to personal variations and lack of control. Metabolic ward studies are the gold standard but they are really expensive and hard to find large groups of willing to participate.
But if you look at all of the studies controlling calories and protein, there is no difference of metabolic advantage.0 -
nutmeg2576 wrote: »Have any of you tried a ketogenic/ketosis diet? I've heard mixed reviews, but it was suggested that it may be helpful for neuropathy and MS. Still doing research, but wanted to see if anyone else has had any success with it?
i tried it for weight loss 7 years ago. Lost 160 pounds, (262 to 102) but that was way too much, so i gained a few pounds back.
Kept the weight off since, been on and off keto, now i'm working out to shape up.5 -
countrygrace77 wrote: »That refined sugars coming from grains and sugar in combination together are essentially toxic to the body.
Jam on your toast is not toxic.
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Keto is good for children with epilepsy. Otherwise it offers no benefit over low carb diets.
Ketogenic low-carbohydrate diets have no metabolic advantage over nonketogenic low-carbohydrate diets
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/83/5/1055.abstract
Am I missing something? 20 people...Six week study. That hardly seems comprehensive or conclusive to me.
It may not be conclusive, but it certainly is suggestive. Especially as there is no study, with the same rigour, using more people over a longer period, and showing the contrary.1 -
Neuropathy and MS: did you ever have your B12 levels checked? If so, were they below approx. 300? Are you on injections? If not, why not? Have you been taking B12 tablets or anything fortified in B12 in the months before the test? Those can skew the results
Having a normal B12 level yet in great need of very large doses of methyl B12 myself, I learned in my research that the US range of normal is greatly outdated. Anything under 500 should be considered very serious as it is in Japan and the UK I believe.
In addition, B12 levels can test perfectly normal yet there can be a serious methyl b12 problem. One would need to test their homocysteine to find out as methyl b12 (along with methyl folate) is a co-factor in the process of changing homocysteine back into methionine in the methylating cycle. If you don't have enough methyl b12, you will have all sorts of possible neurological problems and rising homocysyeine eill cause inflamation and other problems. This can be due to genetic factors which can be discovered using a service like 23&ME then taking the raw data to a few service like genetic genie to get your methylating profile.
B12 problems are massively undiagnosed. A book that came out some time ago may be one of the most important books to read on the subject,
Could It Be B12? An Epidemic in Misdiagnoses.0 -
Keto is good for children with epilepsy. Otherwise it offers no benefit over low carb diets.
Ketogenic low-carbohydrate diets have no metabolic advantage over nonketogenic low-carbohydrate diets
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/83/5/1055.abstract
Am I missing something? 20 people...Six week study. That hardly seems comprehensive or conclusive to me.
It may not be conclusive, but it certainly is suggestive. Especially as there is no study, with the same rigour, using more people over a longer period, and showing the contrary.
Many things are suggestive, and mean nothing.
I can tell you this, I have been ill for the last 11 years with symptoms that are like having fibro,chronic fatigue syndrome, and MS all rolled into one. The first breakthrough came in discovering my need for large doses of methyl B12 to bring my homocysteine down and imorove some of my symotoms.
The next breakthrough was in discovering Dr Sinclair's research at Harvard into life extension and aging reversal, and his use of special form of B3 - NMN - to increase NAD+ to increase mitochondrial output and utilization of ATP. The theory is that all aging and disease is caused by mitochondrial dysfunction. In fact, researchers in thus field are now calling aging a disease.
In Dr Sinclair's research in 2013, he administered NMN to 2 year old mice which are at the end of their life span. A week later he checked their cellular age markers and the essentially had the cells of 6 month old mice. He was named one of Time's Top 100 Men of the Year in 2014 for this discovery.
The precursor to NMN is NR, available only under the name Niagen, which is also able to increase NAD+ similar to NMN but not as effectively, but is available to us now. I started taking this 2 years ago and with the first dose I felt like I had been plugged into a nuclear power plant and was suddenly able to do things i hasnt been able to do in 9 years. But as soon as it wore off, my symptoms would come rushing back. That's how I realized I had a serious mitochondrial problem.
Since then, I've been dependent on Niagen to have a somewhat normal life. However, a couple months ago I came across the book
THE PLANT PARADOX
which challenged what I understood about healthy, but one of the points made had to with our mitochondria, and how a modern diet of fresh produce year round (rather than the cyclic diet we used to have) can essentially exhaust them, as converting glucose to energy is more work than converting ketones to energy. I wondered if that might lead to a real solution.
So I researched ketogenic diets, decided to give it a try, I've been on it for a week and my dependence on Niagen has been dramatically reduced and I have lots of steady energy, all the benifits people talk about with ketogenic diets.
So, yes, a ketogenic diet definitely benefits much more than just epilepsy in children.2 -
theresejesu wrote: »Keto is good for children with epilepsy. Otherwise it offers no benefit over low carb diets.
Ketogenic low-carbohydrate diets have no metabolic advantage over nonketogenic low-carbohydrate diets
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/83/5/1055.abstract
Am I missing something? 20 people...Six week study. That hardly seems comprehensive or conclusive to me.
It may not be conclusive, but it certainly is suggestive. Especially as there is no study, with the same rigour, using more people over a longer period, and showing the contrary.
Many things are suggestive, and mean nothing.
I can tell you this, I have been ill for the last 11 years with symptoms that are like having fibro,chronic fatigue syndrome, and MS all rolled into one. The first breakthrough came in discovering my need for large doses of methyl B12 to bring my homocysteine down and imorove some of my symotoms.
The next breakthrough was in discovering Dr Sinclair's research at Harvard into life extension and aging reversal, and his use of special form of B3 - NMN - to increase NAD+ to increase mitochondrial output and utilization of ATP. The theory is that all aging and disease is caused by mitochondrial dysfunction. In fact, researchers in thus field are now calling aging a disease.
In Dr Sinclair's research in 2013, he administered NMN to 2 year old mice which are at the end of their life span. A week later he checked their cellular age markers and the essentially had the cells of 6 month old mice. He was named one of Time's Top 100 Men of the Year in 2014 for this discovery.
The precursor to NMN is NR, available only under the name Niagen, which is also able to increase NAD+ similar to NMN but not as effectively, but is available to us now. I started taking this 2 years ago and with the first dose I felt like I had been plugged into a nuclear power plant and was suddenly able to do things i hasnt been able to do in 9 years. But as soon as it wore off, my symptoms would come rushing back. That's how I realized I had a serious mitochondrial problem.
Since then, I've been dependent on Niagen to have a somewhat normal life. However, a couple months ago I came across the book
THE PLANT PARADOX
which challenged what I understood about healthy, but one of the points made had to with our mitochondria, and how a modern diet of fresh produce year round (rather than the cyclic diet we used to have) can essentially exhaust them, as converting glucose to energy is more work than converting ketones to energy. I wondered if that might lead to a real solution.
So I researched ketogenic diets, decided to give it a try, I've been on it for a week and my dependence on Niagen has been dramatically reduced and I have lots of steady energy, all the benifits people talk about with ketogenic diets.
So, yes, a ketogenic diet definitely benefits much more than just epilepsy in children.
To the first bolded: On this we can agree:
To the second: This is your n=1 after a mere seven days. Which harkens back to the first bolded.
2 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »cerise_noir wrote: »CarolynNotary wrote: »I was put on the ketogenic diet by my endo 30 years ago for pre diabetes. I am so glad. I have watched all my friends grow fat, ill, and some even die. I am 58 years old now, and still slender, energetic and perfectly healthy. My health is not genetic because my sisters are both heavy now. This is the fountain of youth. I have eggs, bacon, chicken, beef, lamb pork. I eat until I am full and I can go for hours without needing to eat. I am NEVER going back to poisonous carbs.
Poisonous? Here's a definition of poison:
poi·son
ˈpoiz(ə)n/
noun
1.
a substance that is capable of causing the illness or death of a living organism when introduced or absorbed.
synonyms: toxin, toxicant, venom; archaicbane
"a deadly poison"
No, just no.
Oh, those poisonous carbs. I had a giant salad with breakfast involving spring greens, red onions, cucumbers, and even a (gasp!) peach I added to it. Then I picked up my CSA box filled with poison carbs, of course, and even switched out one (a zucchini, since I have tons of zucchini and there were multiple ones in the box) for an extra fennel, since fennel is one of my favorites. How alarming.
Also in the box (among many other poison carbs) was a bunch of carrots. Evil carrots.
ERMAGERDZ! dude, you gonna die. Maybe update your estate plan or something1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »cerise_noir wrote: »CarolynNotary wrote: »I was put on the ketogenic diet by my endo 30 years ago for pre diabetes. I am so glad. I have watched all my friends grow fat, ill, and some even die. I am 58 years old now, and still slender, energetic and perfectly healthy. My health is not genetic because my sisters are both heavy now. This is the fountain of youth. I have eggs, bacon, chicken, beef, lamb pork. I eat until I am full and I can go for hours without needing to eat. I am NEVER going back to poisonous carbs.
Poisonous? Here's a definition of poison:
poi·son
ˈpoiz(ə)n/
noun
1.
a substance that is capable of causing the illness or death of a living organism when introduced or absorbed.
synonyms: toxin, toxicant, venom; archaicbane
"a deadly poison"
No, just no.
Oh, those poisonous carbs. I had a giant salad with breakfast involving spring greens, red onions, cucumbers, and even a (gasp!) peach I added to it. Then I picked up my CSA box filled with poison carbs, of course, and even switched out one (a zucchini, since I have tons of zucchini and there were multiple ones in the box) for an extra fennel, since fennel is one of my favorites. How alarming.
Also in the box (among many other poison carbs) was a bunch of carrots. Evil carrots.
ERMAGERDZ! dude, you gonna die. Maybe update your estate plan or something
YES! And spell our names right. :laugh:0 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »theresejesu wrote: »Keto is good for children with epilepsy. Otherwise it offers no benefit over low carb diets.
Ketogenic low-carbohydrate diets have no metabolic advantage over nonketogenic low-carbohydrate diets
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/83/5/1055.abstract
Am I missing something? 20 people...Six week study. That hardly seems comprehensive or conclusive to me.
It may not be conclusive, but it certainly is suggestive. Especially as there is no study, with the same rigour, using more people over a longer period, and showing the contrary.
Many things are suggestive, and mean nothing.
I can tell you this, I have been ill for the last 11 years with symptoms that are like having fibro,chronic fatigue syndrome, and MS all rolled into one. The first breakthrough came in discovering my need for large doses of methyl B12 to bring my homocysteine down and imorove some of my symotoms.
The next breakthrough was in discovering Dr Sinclair's research at Harvard into life extension and aging reversal, and his use of special form of B3 - NMN - to increase NAD+ to increase mitochondrial output and utilization of ATP. The theory is that all aging and disease is caused by mitochondrial dysfunction. In fact, researchers in thus field are now calling aging a disease.
In Dr Sinclair's research in 2013, he administered NMN to 2 year old mice which are at the end of their life span. A week later he checked their cellular age markers and the essentially had the cells of 6 month old mice. He was named one of Time's Top 100 Men of the Year in 2014 for this discovery.
The precursor to NMN is NR, available only under the name Niagen, which is also able to increase NAD+ similar to NMN but not as effectively, but is available to us now. I started taking this 2 years ago and with the first dose I felt like I had been plugged into a nuclear power plant and was suddenly able to do things i hasnt been able to do in 9 years. But as soon as it wore off, my symptoms would come rushing back. That's how I realized I had a serious mitochondrial problem.
Since then, I've been dependent on Niagen to have a somewhat normal life. However, a couple months ago I came across the book
THE PLANT PARADOX
which challenged what I understood about healthy, but one of the points made had to with our mitochondria, and how a modern diet of fresh produce year round (rather than the cyclic diet we used to have) can essentially exhaust them, as converting glucose to energy is more work than converting ketones to energy. I wondered if that might lead to a real solution.
So I researched ketogenic diets, decided to give it a try, I've been on it for a week and my dependence on Niagen has been dramatically reduced and I have lots of steady energy, all the benifits people talk about with ketogenic diets.
So, yes, a ketogenic diet definitely benefits much more than just epilepsy in children.
To the first bolded: On this we can agree:
To the second: This is your n=1 after a mere seven days. Which harkens back to the first bolded.
I understand this is your interpretation and I understand your skepticism. I live with a husband who is extremely skeptical, but even he is acknowledging this is all working.
I'm living it.
There is no way I can express to you or anyone else who has not gone through this, the absolute joy to be liberated from the fear of everything falling apart because you didn't have access to a supplement or medication when you needed it, with terribly debilitating symptoms rushing back in and taking over your life.
And all because you found how to eat to address the very debilitating underlying problem.2
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