Doctor said not to reach a healthy bmi?
Replies
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randilyn2013 wrote: »Neither myself or any family have ever had any eating disorders, or at least the kind where you are thin. Obesity, heart disease and diabetes do though. I just finished my degree in human biology so I know that crash dieting is neither sustainable nor healthy. I'm really looking long term for my health, which is why I've aiming for the normal range of the bmi chart.
This shouldn't matter but we do live in Indiana. There's a CDC report for Indiana that has 30% of adults obese and 66% overweight. I'm thinking it's more that even her "thin" patients aren't even at normal weights. I do have another follow up after an X-ray this week for my wrist and I can be more specific with my questions then.
*as someone had asked, my doctor is not thin and fit which could also be influencing her recommendation.
96% overweight or obese sounded unlikely high to me so I looked it up. Seems like 66% refers to everyone in either the overweight or obese category. Still high, but not as bad as 96%.
https://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/dnpao/state-local-programs/profiles/indiana.html
Overweight and Obesity 5
33.7% of adults were overweight.
32.7% of adults had obesity.
https://nccd.cdc.gov/dnpao_dtm/rdPage.aspx?rdReport=DNPAO_DTM.ExploreByLocation&rdRequestForwarding=Form
† Obese is defined as body mass index (BMI) ≥ 30.0
† Overweight is defined as body mass index (BMI) ≥ 25.0 but <30.04 -
French_Peasant wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »randilyn2013 wrote: »Neither myself or any family have ever had any eating disorders, or at least the kind where you are thin. Obesity, heart disease and diabetes do though. I just finished my degree in human biology so I know that crash dieting is neither sustainable nor healthy. I'm really looking long term for my health, which is why I've aiming for the normal range of the bmi chart.
This shouldn't matter but we do live in Indiana. There's a CDC report for Indiana that has 30% of adults obese and 66% overweight. I'm thinking it's more that even her "thin" patients aren't even at normal weights. I do have another follow up after an X-ray this week for my wrist and I can be more specific with my questions then.
*as someone had asked, my doctor is not thin and fit which could also be influencing her recommendation.
I'm from Indiana too, and have to say it would be an extremely questionable doctor who can't sort the 66% >25 BMI Hoosiers from the 44% <25 BMI Hoosiers. You say this is your primary suspicion--if so, I would have a) immediately started inspecting her wall to find where her medical degree was from, and b) made plans to find another doctor.
Also, just curious, since you have a degree that (I am assuming) has something to do with science (and I note the crimson color of the diploma case as well as the limestone Collegiate Gothic architecture in the background), and I hope has prepared you to be knowledgeable, curious, and insightful about human biology matters, as well as qualified you to have high-level scientific conversations: why wouldn't you have drawn on your field of expertise to immediately cross-examine the doctor on this odd opinion? Rather, you submit it to random internet strangers?
Because having a science based degree means you can't be made to feel uncomfortable when interacting with a professional? Many people have a hard time questioning their doctors or other people in a powerful position, when they are in a vulnerable one (i.e. a patient). Or maybe she was just surprised and needed this time to gather herself.
Either way, what a dick question. Insulting in about ten different ways. You tried to question her education and her intelligence, but frankly I question yours.
Having a degree in the hard sciences (or really any classical liberal field) makes it absolutely incumbent upon you to question professionals and others in positions of power, no matter how uncomfortable it makes you feel. It is, in fact, a moral obligation, and the reason our society supports education in the first place and pours billions of tax dollars into it and forces science majors to take courses in the humanities and lit majors to take courses in science. Society benefits when we use our critical thinking skills, whether it is protecting ourselves from bad medical advice, asking someone "why?" so they have to re-examine their position, or protecting others by fighting against/questioning bad political decisions. I realize this stance makes me a dick. It is indeed regrettable that there are not more people out there being dicks about it.
I don't completely disagree with what you're saying-just your approach. She came here for other opinions and insight, and some of the suggestions have included her going back to question the doctor more thoroughly. I, personally, have zero problem calling out a professional, and agree that those of us that are able to have a social obligation to do so. These situations always make me think of my BF, who is painfully shy/high anxiety. I feel obligated to stand up for myself and others specifically because someone like him struggles so much to do so.
I just think this is more of a personality issue. She is questioning what her doctor told her, and not simply accepting poor advice. Not everyone is aggressive and confident enough to question authority in the moment, even if they know that they probably should. Again, like my BF. And building up someone in an encouraging way tends to have a better outcome than brow beating them.
Either way, I agree with your moral stance, but not with your approach. I do apologize for calling you a dick. I read it as elitist, which does not seem to have been your intention.6 -
French_Peasant wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »randilyn2013 wrote: »Neither myself or any family have ever had any eating disorders, or at least the kind where you are thin. Obesity, heart disease and diabetes do though. I just finished my degree in human biology so I know that crash dieting is neither sustainable nor healthy. I'm really looking long term for my health, which is why I've aiming for the normal range of the bmi chart.
This shouldn't matter but we do live in Indiana. There's a CDC report for Indiana that has 30% of adults obese and 66% overweight. I'm thinking it's more that even her "thin" patients aren't even at normal weights. I do have another follow up after an X-ray this week for my wrist and I can be more specific with my questions then.
*as someone had asked, my doctor is not thin and fit which could also be influencing her recommendation.
I'm from Indiana too, and have to say it would be an extremely questionable doctor who can't sort the 66% >25 BMI Hoosiers from the 44% <25 BMI Hoosiers. You say this is your primary suspicion--if so, I would have a) immediately started inspecting her wall to find where her medical degree was from, and b) made plans to find another doctor.
Also, just curious, since you have a degree that (I am assuming) has something to do with science (and I note the crimson color of the diploma case as well as the limestone Collegiate Gothic architecture in the background), and I hope has prepared you to be knowledgeable, curious, and insightful about human biology matters, as well as qualified you to have high-level scientific conversations: why wouldn't you have drawn on your field of expertise to immediately cross-examine the doctor on this odd opinion? Rather, you submit it to random internet strangers?
Because having a science based degree means you can't be made to feel uncomfortable when interacting with a professional? Many people have a hard time questioning their doctors or other people in a powerful position, when they are in a vulnerable one (i.e. a patient). Or maybe she was just surprised and needed this time to gather herself.
Either way, what a dick question. Insulting in about ten different ways. You tried to question her education and her intelligence, but frankly I question yours.
Having a degree in the hard sciences (or really any classical liberal field) makes it absolutely incumbent upon you to question professionals and others in positions of power, no matter how uncomfortable it makes you feel. It is, in fact, a moral obligation, and the reason our society supports education in the first place and pours billions of tax dollars into it and forces science majors to take courses in the humanities and lit majors to take courses in science. Society benefits when we use our critical thinking skills, whether it is protecting ourselves from bad medical advice, asking someone "why?" so they have to re-examine their position, or protecting others by fighting against/questioning bad political decisions. I realize this stance makes me a dick. It is indeed regrettable that there are not more people out there being dicks about it.
The OP is asking questions. And no one is suggesting she shouldn't (except in a previous comment judging her for asking questions of internet strangers instead of "immediately cross-examining" her doctor). Perhaps because she's in the moment herself, she is having to wade through her own subjective experiences & was hoping to hear the experiences of others for comparison.
Because this obviously isn't an urgent situation, she's right to take a step back & assess what her doctor has told her, before calling back, perhaps for further clarification. After chatting with others about it, who knows?...maybe she'll have a broader perspective & have questions to ask her doctor that she might not have thought of on her own.6 -
French_Peasant wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »randilyn2013 wrote: »Neither myself or any family have ever had any eating disorders, or at least the kind where you are thin. Obesity, heart disease and diabetes do though. I just finished my degree in human biology so I know that crash dieting is neither sustainable nor healthy. I'm really looking long term for my health, which is why I've aiming for the normal range of the bmi chart.
This shouldn't matter but we do live in Indiana. There's a CDC report for Indiana that has 30% of adults obese and 66% overweight. I'm thinking it's more that even her "thin" patients aren't even at normal weights. I do have another follow up after an X-ray this week for my wrist and I can be more specific with my questions then.
*as someone had asked, my doctor is not thin and fit which could also be influencing her recommendation.
I'm from Indiana too, and have to say it would be an extremely questionable doctor who can't sort the 66% >25 BMI Hoosiers from the 44% <25 BMI Hoosiers. You say this is your primary suspicion--if so, I would have a) immediately started inspecting her wall to find where her medical degree was from, and b) made plans to find another doctor.
Also, just curious, since you have a degree that (I am assuming) has something to do with science (and I note the crimson color of the diploma case as well as the limestone Collegiate Gothic architecture in the background), and I hope has prepared you to be knowledgeable, curious, and insightful about human biology matters, as well as qualified you to have high-level scientific conversations: why wouldn't you have drawn on your field of expertise to immediately cross-examine the doctor on this odd opinion? Rather, you submit it to random internet strangers?
Because having a science based degree means you can't be made to feel uncomfortable when interacting with a professional? Many people have a hard time questioning their doctors or other people in a powerful position, when they are in a vulnerable one (i.e. a patient). Or maybe she was just surprised and needed this time to gather herself.
Either way, what a dick question. Insulting in about ten different ways. You tried to question her education and her intelligence, but frankly I question yours.
Having a degree in the hard sciences (or really any classical liberal field) makes it absolutely incumbent upon you to question professionals and others in positions of power, no matter how uncomfortable it makes you feel. It is, in fact, a moral obligation, and the reason our society supports education in the first place and pours billions of tax dollars into it and forces science majors to take courses in the humanities and lit majors to take courses in science. Society benefits when we use our critical thinking skills, whether it is protecting ourselves from bad medical advice, asking someone "why?" so they have to re-examine their position, or protecting others by fighting against/questioning bad political decisions. I realize this stance makes me a dick. It is indeed regrettable that there are not more people out there being dicks about it.
I don't completely disagree with what you're saying-just your approach. She came here for other opinions and insight, and some of the suggestions have included her going back to question the doctor more thoroughly. I, personally, have zero problem calling out a professional, and agree that those of us that are able to have a social obligation to do so. These situations always make me think of my BF, who is painfully shy/high anxiety. I feel obligated to stand up for myself and others specifically because someone like him struggles so much to do so.
I just think this is more of a personality issue. She is questioning what her doctor told her, and not simply accepting poor advice. Not everyone is aggressive and confident enough to question authority in the moment, even if they know that they probably should. Again, like my BF. And building up someone in an encouraging way tends to have a better outcome than brow beating them.
Either way, I agree with your moral stance, but not with your approach. I do apologize for calling you a dick. I read it as elitist, which does not seem to have been your intention.
I admit I had to laugh at being called a dick--it was entertaining, as disgruntled students would normally choose another perjorative for a female faculty member.
I have a very tough skin.
I can certainly understand the protective instinct, having a shy husband (who is also a forensic chemist). My experience with scores of students (and professionals) in the hard sciences is that they tend to be very logical, love research and data, are resilient, and prefer to have a spade called a spade. I can't think of a single student of this sort who had any issue with a tough critique. Because they knew I was either right, or could bring forth additional information to provide nuance to their position. They are in an occupation where if they screw something up or listen to their feelings instead of drawing on the facts, they could compromise/destroy a meticulous experiment or kill someone.
To get the information she needed, all it required was a simple "why?" rather than any sort of confrontation, and asking "why" is a skill that would have been reinforced in every major class she took. My background is as a medievalist, and a doctor pooh-poohing the BMI charts would be as interesting as another medievalist, say, suggesting Beowulf was actually written by the Charlemagne. No matter how shy, an expert in either field should be confident enough to say "Hmmm, that's very interesting, tell me more." Not to mention the look that would naturally land on one's face when presented with such an interesting position.2 -
French_Peasant wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »randilyn2013 wrote: »Neither myself or any family have ever had any eating disorders, or at least the kind where you are thin. Obesity, heart disease and diabetes do though. I just finished my degree in human biology so I know that crash dieting is neither sustainable nor healthy. I'm really looking long term for my health, which is why I've aiming for the normal range of the bmi chart.
This shouldn't matter but we do live in Indiana. There's a CDC report for Indiana that has 30% of adults obese and 66% overweight. I'm thinking it's more that even her "thin" patients aren't even at normal weights. I do have another follow up after an X-ray this week for my wrist and I can be more specific with my questions then.
*as someone had asked, my doctor is not thin and fit which could also be influencing her recommendation.
I'm from Indiana too, and have to say it would be an extremely questionable doctor who can't sort the 66% >25 BMI Hoosiers from the 44% <25 BMI Hoosiers. You say this is your primary suspicion--if so, I would have a) immediately started inspecting her wall to find where her medical degree was from, and b) made plans to find another doctor.
Also, just curious, since you have a degree that (I am assuming) has something to do with science (and I note the crimson color of the diploma case as well as the limestone Collegiate Gothic architecture in the background), and I hope has prepared you to be knowledgeable, curious, and insightful about human biology matters, as well as qualified you to have high-level scientific conversations: why wouldn't you have drawn on your field of expertise to immediately cross-examine the doctor on this odd opinion? Rather, you submit it to random internet strangers?
Because having a science based degree means you can't be made to feel uncomfortable when interacting with a professional? Many people have a hard time questioning their doctors or other people in a powerful position, when they are in a vulnerable one (i.e. a patient). Or maybe she was just surprised and needed this time to gather herself.
Either way, what a dick question. Insulting in about ten different ways. You tried to question her education and her intelligence, but frankly I question yours.
Having a degree in the hard sciences (or really any classical liberal field) makes it absolutely incumbent upon you to question professionals and others in positions of power, no matter how uncomfortable it makes you feel. It is, in fact, a moral obligation, and the reason our society supports education in the first place and pours billions of tax dollars into it and forces science majors to take courses in the humanities and lit majors to take courses in science. Society benefits when we use our critical thinking skills, whether it is protecting ourselves from bad medical advice, asking someone "why?" so they have to re-examine their position, or protecting others by fighting against/questioning bad political decisions. I realize this stance makes me a dick. It is indeed regrettable that there are not more people out there being dicks about it.
The OP is asking questions. And no one is suggesting she shouldn't (except in a previous comment judging her for asking questions of internet strangers instead of "immediately cross-examining" her doctor). Perhaps because she's in the moment herself, she is having to wade through her own subjective experiences & was hoping to hear the experiences of others for comparison.
Because this obviously isn't an urgent situation, she's right to take a step back & assess what her doctor has told her, before calling back, perhaps for further clarification. After chatting with others about it, who knows?...maybe she'll have a broader perspective & have questions to ask her doctor that she might not have thought of on her own.
So, again, she is a trained scientist with a formidable intellectual toolbox that she should not be afraid to open and use, as well as a professional interest in having lapses in critical thinking noted for further illumination. If she can deal with numerous science faculty scrutinizing her thinking and research for 4 years, she can deal with a doctor (or with me, for that matter). I do indeed have a different, and very gentle, pedagogical approach for, say, poetry majors along the lines of what you have suggested above. I call it my "Bob Ross."
(Now I don't want to hear any grievances from the poetry majors that I hold science majors to a higher standard.)2 -
Packerjohn wrote: »ruqayyahsmum wrote: »I had an appointment recently with my hospital dietitian
She suggested i should swap to maintenance now rather than continue losing weight....... my bmi is 40 (down from 70)
Ill continue trying to lose cheers, hoping to prove i was right to keep going when i see them in 6 months
Congrats on your progress so far. As you know you saved your life. Personally, before you decide to continue losing I would ask your dietitian/doctor why they want you at maintenance now. Given your drastic weight loss, there may be medically valid reasons to go to maintenance for the time being.
Best of luck.
Its because when i was pregnant i lost 3 stone and looked like shite
I regained that
What the dietitian had forgotten and i tried to remind her of is that i was very ill during pregnancy and had developed hypoglycaemia. She saw me the day before i gave birth at 25 weeks
Her reccomendations to my midwife when i was hospitalised at 20 weeks was to have me eat hourly. The diabetic nurse insisted on 4 biscuits an hour. This continued after birth when i was again hospitilized for 5 weeks
Ive been working on losing weight while maintaining my milk supply and keeping my blood sugars stable, something ive managed to do slowly, not quite gotten rid of all the regain
But shes quite adament ill return to looking like shite on a stick if i get to bmi 37 like i did before0 -
French_Peasant wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »randilyn2013 wrote: »Neither myself or any family have ever had any eating disorders, or at least the kind where you are thin. Obesity, heart disease and diabetes do though. I just finished my degree in human biology so I know that crash dieting is neither sustainable nor healthy. I'm really looking long term for my health, which is why I've aiming for the normal range of the bmi chart.
This shouldn't matter but we do live in Indiana. There's a CDC report for Indiana that has 30% of adults obese and 66% overweight. I'm thinking it's more that even her "thin" patients aren't even at normal weights. I do have another follow up after an X-ray this week for my wrist and I can be more specific with my questions then.
*as someone had asked, my doctor is not thin and fit which could also be influencing her recommendation.
I'm from Indiana too, and have to say it would be an extremely questionable doctor who can't sort the 66% >25 BMI Hoosiers from the 44% <25 BMI Hoosiers. You say this is your primary suspicion--if so, I would have a) immediately started inspecting her wall to find where her medical degree was from, and b) made plans to find another doctor.
Also, just curious, since you have a degree that (I am assuming) has something to do with science (and I note the crimson color of the diploma case as well as the limestone Collegiate Gothic architecture in the background), and I hope has prepared you to be knowledgeable, curious, and insightful about human biology matters, as well as qualified you to have high-level scientific conversations: why wouldn't you have drawn on your field of expertise to immediately cross-examine the doctor on this odd opinion? Rather, you submit it to random internet strangers?
Because having a science based degree means you can't be made to feel uncomfortable when interacting with a professional? Many people have a hard time questioning their doctors or other people in a powerful position, when they are in a vulnerable one (i.e. a patient). Or maybe she was just surprised and needed this time to gather herself.
Either way, what a dick question. Insulting in about ten different ways. You tried to question her education and her intelligence, but frankly I question yours.
Having a degree in the hard sciences (or really any classical liberal field) makes it absolutely incumbent upon you to question professionals and others in positions of power, no matter how uncomfortable it makes you feel. It is, in fact, a moral obligation, and the reason our society supports education in the first place and pours billions of tax dollars into it and forces science majors to take courses in the humanities and lit majors to take courses in science. Society benefits when we use our critical thinking skills, whether it is protecting ourselves from bad medical advice, asking someone "why?" so they have to re-examine their position, or protecting others by fighting against/questioning bad political decisions. I realize this stance makes me a dick. It is indeed regrettable that there are not more people out there being dicks about it.
I don't completely disagree with what you're saying-just your approach. She came here for other opinions and insight, and some of the suggestions have included her going back to question the doctor more thoroughly. I, personally, have zero problem calling out a professional, and agree that those of us that are able to have a social obligation to do so. These situations always make me think of my BF, who is painfully shy/high anxiety. I feel obligated to stand up for myself and others specifically because someone like him struggles so much to do so.
I just think this is more of a personality issue. She is questioning what her doctor told her, and not simply accepting poor advice. Not everyone is aggressive and confident enough to question authority in the moment, even if they know that they probably should. Again, like my BF. And building up someone in an encouraging way tends to have a better outcome than brow beating them.
Either way, I agree with your moral stance, but not with your approach. I do apologize for calling you a dick. I read it as elitist, which does not seem to have been your intention.
I admit I had to laugh at being called a dick--it was entertaining, as disgruntled students would normally choose another perjorative for a female faculty member. I have a very tough skin.
I can certainly understand the protective instinct, having a shy husband (who is also a forensic chemist). My experience with scores of students (and professionals) in the hard sciences is that they tend to be very logical, love research and data, are resilient, and prefer to have a spade called a spade. I can't think of a single student of this sort who had any issue with a tough critique. Because they knew I was either right, or could bring forth additional information to provide nuance to their position. They are in an occupation where if they screw something up or listen to their feelings instead of drawing on the facts, they could compromise/destroy a meticulous experiment or kill someone.
To get the information she needed, all it required was a simple "why?" rather than any sort of confrontation, and asking "why" is a skill that would have been reinforced in every major class she took. My background is as a medievalist, and a doctor pooh-poohing the BMI charts would be as interesting as another medievalist, say, suggesting Beowulf was actually written by the Charlemagne. No matter how shy, an expert in either field should be confident enough to say "Hmmm, that's very interesting, tell me more." Not to mention the look that would naturally land on one's face when presented with such an interesting position.
So I feel the need to speak up for my fellow shy introverts. It has nothing to do with confrontation, or with intellect. It is about social anxiety causing your brain to spin around uncontrollably and you can't think of what to say. And as soon as I get out to the car I think of the 5 questions I should have asked and feel like a loser for not asking, so I will call later to ask them and apologize profusely for taking up more of their time, even though I know it was my right to ask the questions in the first place.
Having said that, we have no idea why OP didn't ask so this could all be us girls wasting time we could be using more constructively
OP, if you do get to ask your doctor, please let us know, I'm curious now!9 -
French_Peasant wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »randilyn2013 wrote: »Neither myself or any family have ever had any eating disorders, or at least the kind where you are thin. Obesity, heart disease and diabetes do though. I just finished my degree in human biology so I know that crash dieting is neither sustainable nor healthy. I'm really looking long term for my health, which is why I've aiming for the normal range of the bmi chart.
This shouldn't matter but we do live in Indiana. There's a CDC report for Indiana that has 30% of adults obese and 66% overweight. I'm thinking it's more that even her "thin" patients aren't even at normal weights. I do have another follow up after an X-ray this week for my wrist and I can be more specific with my questions then.
*as someone had asked, my doctor is not thin and fit which could also be influencing her recommendation.
I'm from Indiana too, and have to say it would be an extremely questionable doctor who can't sort the 66% >25 BMI Hoosiers from the 44% <25 BMI Hoosiers. You say this is your primary suspicion--if so, I would have a) immediately started inspecting her wall to find where her medical degree was from, and b) made plans to find another doctor.
Also, just curious, since you have a degree that (I am assuming) has something to do with science (and I note the crimson color of the diploma case as well as the limestone Collegiate Gothic architecture in the background), and I hope has prepared you to be knowledgeable, curious, and insightful about human biology matters, as well as qualified you to have high-level scientific conversations: why wouldn't you have drawn on your field of expertise to immediately cross-examine the doctor on this odd opinion? Rather, you submit it to random internet strangers?
Because having a science based degree means you can't be made to feel uncomfortable when interacting with a professional? Many people have a hard time questioning their doctors or other people in a powerful position, when they are in a vulnerable one (i.e. a patient). Or maybe she was just surprised and needed this time to gather herself.
Either way, what a dick question. Insulting in about ten different ways. You tried to question her education and her intelligence, but frankly I question yours.
Having a degree in the hard sciences (or really any classical liberal field) makes it absolutely incumbent upon you to question professionals and others in positions of power, no matter how uncomfortable it makes you feel. It is, in fact, a moral obligation, and the reason our society supports education in the first place and pours billions of tax dollars into it and forces science majors to take courses in the humanities and lit majors to take courses in science. Society benefits when we use our critical thinking skills, whether it is protecting ourselves from bad medical advice, asking someone "why?" so they have to re-examine their position, or protecting others by fighting against/questioning bad political decisions. I realize this stance makes me a dick. It is indeed regrettable that there are not more people out there being dicks about it.
The OP is asking questions. And no one is suggesting she shouldn't (except in a previous comment judging her for asking questions of internet strangers instead of "immediately cross-examining" her doctor). Perhaps because she's in the moment herself, she is having to wade through her own subjective experiences & was hoping to hear the experiences of others for comparison.
Because this obviously isn't an urgent situation, she's right to take a step back & assess what her doctor has told her, before calling back, perhaps for further clarification. After chatting with others about it, who knows?...maybe she'll have a broader perspective & have questions to ask her doctor that she might not have thought of on her own.
So, again, she is a trained scientist with a formidable intellectual toolbox that she should not be afraid to open and use, as well as a professional interest in having lapses in critical thinking noted for further illumination. If she can deal with numerous science faculty scrutinizing her thinking and research for 4 years, she can deal with a doctor (or with me, for that matter). I do indeed have a different, and very gentle, pedagogical approach for, say, poetry majors along the lines of what you have suggested above. I call it my "Bob Ross."
(Now I don't want to hear any grievances from the poetry majors that I hold science majors to a higher standard.)
Subject to interpretation. I don't see the "lapse in critical thinking" that you do. She is questioning her doctor & seeking additional information, & already stated she is going back for a follow-up & will be able to ask for clarification. You are taking issue with her timing when you question why she didn't ask "immediately" & subsequently diminished her seeking the experiences of others.
Excellent straw-manning, by the way.5 -
French_Peasant wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »why wouldn't you have drawn on your field of expertise to immediately cross-examine the doctor on this odd opinion? Rather, you submit it to random internet strangers?
Not trying to answer for the OP, but this struck me as a judgmental question. Lots of people need time to debrief & analyze information or suggestions/advice they've received, especially from what are presumed to be knowledgeable professionals. It's far easier as an outsider to evaluate the OP's experience after the fact than it might have been as the OP in the moment.
I don't get this line of questioning at all, the whole, "well, why didn't you do it this way?" Seems really pointless & only intended to make the OP doubt herself. If the point was to offer an alternative perspective to the OP so she could learn & grow & perhaps better handle odd professional advice in the future, maybe asking in a way that wasn't so, "Didn't they teach you that in your fancy school?" would be in line.
Sorry if I am not touchy-feely enough; I tend to strip things down to brass tacks. In this case, I truly am baffled.
As a former faculty member for the upper level research methodology & critical thinking course that every Biology BA or BS would be required to take, I am well aware of the professional standards expected from a graduate earning that diploma, if it is in fact the school I am thinking of. It's not a "fancy" school by any means, but it is a school with extremely rigorous standards and highly respected reputation, which are upheld by high expectations, particularly for the majors like Human Biology that feed into its medical school.
More troubling is her apparent misunderstanding of the CDC data and willingness to think her doctor was just ignorant because 96% of her patients are overweight and the doctor proffers medical advice based on such evidence (instead of medical training and journals) "just because it's Indiana."
If I seem overly harsh, it is just because I have very high expectations for this particular school and degree, and am passionate about the graduates it turns out, and their ability to continue to apply their fine scientific education.
I did graduate from IUB and I may not have represented the data well for my post ...as 2/3 of all Indiana adult residents are overweight or obese. When I asked my doctor why she wanted me to stop losing weight when I reached 150lbs that's when she mentioned she wanted me to keep a bit of "adult weight." I didn't necessarily want push the issue further because we'd already discussed post grad programs for 10 minutes. She is nice but really rather chatty (always pushing med school)
I do accept and appreciate criticism, as you mentioned IU has some incredible professors that do everything thing in their power to promote individual critical thinking skills. I posted my question to the forums because there is such a large community of individuals that have already lost weight and perhaps had the same issue. Medically there is no reason I should not continue my weightloss journey past my doctors recommendations. Even eating a ketogenic diet my fasting glucose levels have never been hypoglycemic.
As someone else suggested I do tend to be an introvert and confrontation is rather uncomfortable for me. It seems unnecessary though for any targeting or bullying via a fitness app. We're all just here to gain/share insight on fitness.7 -
French_Peasant wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »randilyn2013 wrote: »Neither myself or any family have ever had any eating disorders, or at least the kind where you are thin. Obesity, heart disease and diabetes do though. I just finished my degree in human biology so I know that crash dieting is neither sustainable nor healthy. I'm really looking long term for my health, which is why I've aiming for the normal range of the bmi chart.
This shouldn't matter but we do live in Indiana. There's a CDC report for Indiana that has 30% of adults obese and 66% overweight. I'm thinking it's more that even her "thin" patients aren't even at normal weights. I do have another follow up after an X-ray this week for my wrist and I can be more specific with my questions then.
*as someone had asked, my doctor is not thin and fit which could also be influencing her recommendation.
I'm from Indiana too, and have to say it would be an extremely questionable doctor who can't sort the 66% >25 BMI Hoosiers from the 44% <25 BMI Hoosiers. You say this is your primary suspicion--if so, I would have a) immediately started inspecting her wall to find where her medical degree was from, and b) made plans to find another doctor.
Also, just curious, since you have a degree that (I am assuming) has something to do with science (and I note the crimson color of the diploma case as well as the limestone Collegiate Gothic architecture in the background), and I hope has prepared you to be knowledgeable, curious, and insightful about human biology matters, as well as qualified you to have high-level scientific conversations: why wouldn't you have drawn on your field of expertise to immediately cross-examine the doctor on this odd opinion? Rather, you submit it to random internet strangers?
Because having a science based degree means you can't be made to feel uncomfortable when interacting with a professional? Many people have a hard time questioning their doctors or other people in a powerful position, when they are in a vulnerable one (i.e. a patient). Or maybe she was just surprised and needed this time to gather herself.
Either way, what a dick question. Insulting in about ten different ways. You tried to question her education and her intelligence, but frankly I question yours.
Having a degree in the hard sciences (or really any classical liberal field) makes it absolutely incumbent upon you to question professionals and others in positions of power, no matter how uncomfortable it makes you feel. It is, in fact, a moral obligation, and the reason our society supports education in the first place and pours billions of tax dollars into it and forces science majors to take courses in the humanities and lit majors to take courses in science. Society benefits when we use our critical thinking skills, whether it is protecting ourselves from bad medical advice, asking someone "why?" so they have to re-examine their position, or protecting others by fighting against/questioning bad political decisions. I realize this stance makes me a dick. It is indeed regrettable that there are not more people out there being dicks about it.
I don't completely disagree with what you're saying-just your approach. She came here for other opinions and insight, and some of the suggestions have included her going back to question the doctor more thoroughly. I, personally, have zero problem calling out a professional, and agree that those of us that are able to have a social obligation to do so. These situations always make me think of my BF, who is painfully shy/high anxiety. I feel obligated to stand up for myself and others specifically because someone like him struggles so much to do so.
I just think this is more of a personality issue. She is questioning what her doctor told her, and not simply accepting poor advice. Not everyone is aggressive and confident enough to question authority in the moment, even if they know that they probably should. Again, like my BF. And building up someone in an encouraging way tends to have a better outcome than brow beating them.
Either way, I agree with your moral stance, but not with your approach. I do apologize for calling you a dick. I read it as elitist, which does not seem to have been your intention.
I admit I had to laugh at being called a dick--it was entertaining, as disgruntled students would normally choose another perjorative for a female faculty member. I have a very tough skin.
I can certainly understand the protective instinct, having a shy husband (who is also a forensic chemist). My experience with scores of students (and professionals) in the hard sciences is that they tend to be very logical, love research and data, are resilient, and prefer to have a spade called a spade. I can't think of a single student of this sort who had any issue with a tough critique. Because they knew I was either right, or could bring forth additional information to provide nuance to their position. They are in an occupation where if they screw something up or listen to their feelings instead of drawing on the facts, they could compromise/destroy a meticulous experiment or kill someone.
To get the information she needed, all it required was a simple "why?" rather than any sort of confrontation, and asking "why" is a skill that would have been reinforced in every major class she took. My background is as a medievalist, and a doctor pooh-poohing the BMI charts would be as interesting as another medievalist, say, suggesting Beowulf was actually written by the Charlemagne. No matter how shy, an expert in either field should be confident enough to say "Hmmm, that's very interesting, tell me more." Not to mention the look that would naturally land on one's face when presented with such an interesting position.
So I feel the need to speak up for my fellow shy introverts. It has nothing to do with confrontation, or with intellect. It is about social anxiety causing your brain to spin around uncontrollably and you can't think of what to say. And as soon as I get out to the car I think of the 5 questions I should have asked and feel like a loser for not asking, so I will call later to ask them and apologize profusely for taking up more of their time, even though I know it was my right to ask the questions in the first place.
Having said that, we have no idea why OP didn't ask so this could all be us girls wasting time we could be using more constructively
OP, if you do get to ask your doctor, please let us know, I'm curious now!
I feel like this when I fail to plan for the meeting, make a list, and refer to the list.2 -
French_Peasant wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »randilyn2013 wrote: »Neither myself or any family have ever had any eating disorders, or at least the kind where you are thin. Obesity, heart disease and diabetes do though. I just finished my degree in human biology so I know that crash dieting is neither sustainable nor healthy. I'm really looking long term for my health, which is why I've aiming for the normal range of the bmi chart.
This shouldn't matter but we do live in Indiana. There's a CDC report for Indiana that has 30% of adults obese and 66% overweight. I'm thinking it's more that even her "thin" patients aren't even at normal weights. I do have another follow up after an X-ray this week for my wrist and I can be more specific with my questions then.
*as someone had asked, my doctor is not thin and fit which could also be influencing her recommendation.
I'm from Indiana too, and have to say it would be an extremely questionable doctor who can't sort the 66% >25 BMI Hoosiers from the 44% <25 BMI Hoosiers. You say this is your primary suspicion--if so, I would have a) immediately started inspecting her wall to find where her medical degree was from, and b) made plans to find another doctor.
Also, just curious, since you have a degree that (I am assuming) has something to do with science (and I note the crimson color of the diploma case as well as the limestone Collegiate Gothic architecture in the background), and I hope has prepared you to be knowledgeable, curious, and insightful about human biology matters, as well as qualified you to have high-level scientific conversations: why wouldn't you have drawn on your field of expertise to immediately cross-examine the doctor on this odd opinion? Rather, you submit it to random internet strangers?
Because having a science based degree means you can't be made to feel uncomfortable when interacting with a professional? Many people have a hard time questioning their doctors or other people in a powerful position, when they are in a vulnerable one (i.e. a patient). Or maybe she was just surprised and needed this time to gather herself.
Either way, what a dick question. Insulting in about ten different ways. You tried to question her education and her intelligence, but frankly I question yours.
Having a degree in the hard sciences (or really any classical liberal field) makes it absolutely incumbent upon you to question professionals and others in positions of power, no matter how uncomfortable it makes you feel. It is, in fact, a moral obligation, and the reason our society supports education in the first place and pours billions of tax dollars into it and forces science majors to take courses in the humanities and lit majors to take courses in science. Society benefits when we use our critical thinking skills, whether it is protecting ourselves from bad medical advice, asking someone "why?" so they have to re-examine their position, or protecting others by fighting against/questioning bad political decisions. I realize this stance makes me a dick. It is indeed regrettable that there are not more people out there being dicks about it.
I don't completely disagree with what you're saying-just your approach. She came here for other opinions and insight, and some of the suggestions have included her going back to question the doctor more thoroughly. I, personally, have zero problem calling out a professional, and agree that those of us that are able to have a social obligation to do so. These situations always make me think of my BF, who is painfully shy/high anxiety. I feel obligated to stand up for myself and others specifically because someone like him struggles so much to do so.
I just think this is more of a personality issue. She is questioning what her doctor told her, and not simply accepting poor advice. Not everyone is aggressive and confident enough to question authority in the moment, even if they know that they probably should. Again, like my BF. And building up someone in an encouraging way tends to have a better outcome than brow beating them.
Either way, I agree with your moral stance, but not with your approach. I do apologize for calling you a dick. I read it as elitist, which does not seem to have been your intention.
I admit I had to laugh at being called a dick--it was entertaining, as disgruntled students would normally choose another perjorative for a female faculty member. I have a very tough skin.
I can certainly understand the protective instinct, having a shy husband (who is also a forensic chemist). My experience with scores of students (and professionals) in the hard sciences is that they tend to be very logical, love research and data, are resilient, and prefer to have a spade called a spade. I can't think of a single student of this sort who had any issue with a tough critique. Because they knew I was either right, or could bring forth additional information to provide nuance to their position. They are in an occupation where if they screw something up or listen to their feelings instead of drawing on the facts, they could compromise/destroy a meticulous experiment or kill someone.
To get the information she needed, all it required was a simple "why?" rather than any sort of confrontation, and asking "why" is a skill that would have been reinforced in every major class she took. My background is as a medievalist, and a doctor pooh-poohing the BMI charts would be as interesting as another medievalist, say, suggesting Beowulf was actually written by the Charlemagne. No matter how shy, an expert in either field should be confident enough to say "Hmmm, that's very interesting, tell me more." Not to mention the look that would naturally land on one's face when presented with such an interesting position.
So I feel the need to speak up for my fellow shy introverts. It has nothing to do with confrontation, or with intellect. It is about social anxiety causing your brain to spin around uncontrollably and you can't think of what to say. And as soon as I get out to the car I think of the 5 questions I should have asked and feel like a loser for not asking, so I will call later to ask them and apologize profusely for taking up more of their time, even though I know it was my right to ask the questions in the first place.
Having said that, we have no idea why OP didn't ask so this could all be us girls wasting time we could be using more constructively
OP, if you do get to ask your doctor, please let us know, I'm curious now!
I do the same thing.
So now, I write the questions i need to ask on a piece of paper and bring it in to my appointment. Another one of my issues is that my doctor is never, ever on time (Big surprise there), so i feel i have to make my appointment as quick as possible so she has a chance to catch up, she always thanks me for being an easy patient and getting right to the point asap, and i know she appreciates this which puts even more pressure on me to be in and out!1 -
What I have come to learn in my 25 years of living is that not everyone should be doctors.0
-
French_Peasant wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »randilyn2013 wrote: »Neither myself or any family have ever had any eating disorders, or at least the kind where you are thin. Obesity, heart disease and diabetes do though. I just finished my degree in human biology so I know that crash dieting is neither sustainable nor healthy. I'm really looking long term for my health, which is why I've aiming for the normal range of the bmi chart.
This shouldn't matter but we do live in Indiana. There's a CDC report for Indiana that has 30% of adults obese and 66% overweight. I'm thinking it's more that even her "thin" patients aren't even at normal weights. I do have another follow up after an X-ray this week for my wrist and I can be more specific with my questions then.
*as someone had asked, my doctor is not thin and fit which could also be influencing her recommendation.
I'm from Indiana too, and have to say it would be an extremely questionable doctor who can't sort the 66% >25 BMI Hoosiers from the 44% <25 BMI Hoosiers. You say this is your primary suspicion--if so, I would have a) immediately started inspecting her wall to find where her medical degree was from, and b) made plans to find another doctor.
Also, just curious, since you have a degree that (I am assuming) has something to do with science (and I note the crimson color of the diploma case as well as the limestone Collegiate Gothic architecture in the background), and I hope has prepared you to be knowledgeable, curious, and insightful about human biology matters, as well as qualified you to have high-level scientific conversations: why wouldn't you have drawn on your field of expertise to immediately cross-examine the doctor on this odd opinion? Rather, you submit it to random internet strangers?
Because having a science based degree means you can't be made to feel uncomfortable when interacting with a professional? Many people have a hard time questioning their doctors or other people in a powerful position, when they are in a vulnerable one (i.e. a patient). Or maybe she was just surprised and needed this time to gather herself.
Either way, what a dick question. Insulting in about ten different ways. You tried to question her education and her intelligence, but frankly I question yours.
Having a degree in the hard sciences (or really any classical liberal field) makes it absolutely incumbent upon you to question professionals and others in positions of power, no matter how uncomfortable it makes you feel. It is, in fact, a moral obligation, and the reason our society supports education in the first place and pours billions of tax dollars into it and forces science majors to take courses in the humanities and lit majors to take courses in science. Society benefits when we use our critical thinking skills, whether it is protecting ourselves from bad medical advice, asking someone "why?" so they have to re-examine their position, or protecting others by fighting against/questioning bad political decisions. I realize this stance makes me a dick. It is indeed regrettable that there are not more people out there being dicks about it.
I don't completely disagree with what you're saying-just your approach. She came here for other opinions and insight, and some of the suggestions have included her going back to question the doctor more thoroughly. I, personally, have zero problem calling out a professional, and agree that those of us that are able to have a social obligation to do so. These situations always make me think of my BF, who is painfully shy/high anxiety. I feel obligated to stand up for myself and others specifically because someone like him struggles so much to do so.
I just think this is more of a personality issue. She is questioning what her doctor told her, and not simply accepting poor advice. Not everyone is aggressive and confident enough to question authority in the moment, even if they know that they probably should. Again, like my BF. And building up someone in an encouraging way tends to have a better outcome than brow beating them.
Either way, I agree with your moral stance, but not with your approach. I do apologize for calling you a dick. I read it as elitist, which does not seem to have been your intention.
I admit I had to laugh at being called a dick--it was entertaining, as disgruntled students would normally choose another perjorative for a female faculty member. I have a very tough skin.
I can certainly understand the protective instinct, having a shy husband (who is also a forensic chemist). My experience with scores of students (and professionals) in the hard sciences is that they tend to be very logical, love research and data, are resilient, and prefer to have a spade called a spade. I can't think of a single student of this sort who had any issue with a tough critique. Because they knew I was either right, or could bring forth additional information to provide nuance to their position. They are in an occupation where if they screw something up or listen to their feelings instead of drawing on the facts, they could compromise/destroy a meticulous experiment or kill someone.
To get the information she needed, all it required was a simple "why?" rather than any sort of confrontation, and asking "why" is a skill that would have been reinforced in every major class she took. My background is as a medievalist, and a doctor pooh-poohing the BMI charts would be as interesting as another medievalist, say, suggesting Beowulf was actually written by the Charlemagne. No matter how shy, an expert in either field should be confident enough to say "Hmmm, that's very interesting, tell me more." Not to mention the look that would naturally land on one's face when presented with such an interesting position.
So I feel the need to speak up for my fellow shy introverts. It has nothing to do with confrontation, or with intellect. It is about social anxiety causing your brain to spin around uncontrollably and you can't think of what to say. And as soon as I get out to the car I think of the 5 questions I should have asked and feel like a loser for not asking, so I will call later to ask them and apologize profusely for taking up more of their time, even though I know it was my right to ask the questions in the first place.
Having said that, we have no idea why OP didn't ask so this could all be us girls wasting time we could be using more constructively
OP, if you do get to ask your doctor, please let us know, I'm curious now!
Another thought (quite apart from shyness or introversion): some of us, cognitively, are incubators and some of us are reactors.
Incubators like to mull things over, then ask questions or challenge premises. This doesn't play out in a 10-15 minute doctor's appointment.
Reactors are all over it in the moment, asking and challenging . . . half-cocked, sometimes.
I'm more of a reactor. In my work life, as a manager, I found it necessary - in order to get the best results - to recognize the incubators, and circle back to them later for follow-up discussion . . . because it's not that they're not smart, not assertive, uncommunicative, or any such thing: They just need more think time before reacting than I do, and they seek additional useful outside information in the meantime, as OP has done here.
I'm thinking those folks probably have better luck following up surprise doctor comments at appointment #2.8 -
randilyn2013 wrote: »I did graduate from IUB and I may not have represented the data well for my post ...as 2/3 of all Indiana adult residents are overweight or obese. When I asked my doctor why she wanted me to stop losing weight when I reached 150lbs that's when she mentioned she wanted me to keep a bit of "adult weight." I didn't necessarily want push the issue further because we'd already discussed post grad programs for 10 minutes. She is nice but really rather chatty (always pushing med school)
I do accept and appreciate criticism, as you mentioned IU has some incredible professors that do everything thing in their power to promote individual critical thinking skills. I posted my question to the forums because there is such a large community of individuals that have already lost weight and perhaps had the same issue. Medically there is no reason I should not continue my weightloss journey past my doctors recommendations. Even eating a ketogenic diet my fasting glucose levels have never been hypoglycemic.
As someone else suggested I do tend to be an introvert and confrontation is rather uncomfortable for me. It seems unnecessary though for any targeting or bullying via a fitness app. We're all just here to gain/share insight on fitness.
I'm an introvert as well and I'm very nonconfrontational. I would've let this one go too if only for the fact I have no idea how to even formulate an intelligent response to "keep a bit of adult weight".4 -
French_Peasant wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »randilyn2013 wrote: »Neither myself or any family have ever had any eating disorders, or at least the kind where you are thin. Obesity, heart disease and diabetes do though. I just finished my degree in human biology so I know that crash dieting is neither sustainable nor healthy. I'm really looking long term for my health, which is why I've aiming for the normal range of the bmi chart.
This shouldn't matter but we do live in Indiana. There's a CDC report for Indiana that has 30% of adults obese and 66% overweight. I'm thinking it's more that even her "thin" patients aren't even at normal weights. I do have another follow up after an X-ray this week for my wrist and I can be more specific with my questions then.
*as someone had asked, my doctor is not thin and fit which could also be influencing her recommendation.
I'm from Indiana too, and have to say it would be an extremely questionable doctor who can't sort the 66% >25 BMI Hoosiers from the 44% <25 BMI Hoosiers. You say this is your primary suspicion--if so, I would have a) immediately started inspecting her wall to find where her medical degree was from, and b) made plans to find another doctor.
Also, just curious, since you have a degree that (I am assuming) has something to do with science (and I note the crimson color of the diploma case as well as the limestone Collegiate Gothic architecture in the background), and I hope has prepared you to be knowledgeable, curious, and insightful about human biology matters, as well as qualified you to have high-level scientific conversations: why wouldn't you have drawn on your field of expertise to immediately cross-examine the doctor on this odd opinion? Rather, you submit it to random internet strangers?
Because having a science based degree means you can't be made to feel uncomfortable when interacting with a professional? Many people have a hard time questioning their doctors or other people in a powerful position, when they are in a vulnerable one (i.e. a patient). Or maybe she was just surprised and needed this time to gather herself.
Either way, what a dick question. Insulting in about ten different ways. You tried to question her education and her intelligence, but frankly I question yours.
Having a degree in the hard sciences (or really any classical liberal field) makes it absolutely incumbent upon you to question professionals and others in positions of power, no matter how uncomfortable it makes you feel. It is, in fact, a moral obligation, and the reason our society supports education in the first place and pours billions of tax dollars into it and forces science majors to take courses in the humanities and lit majors to take courses in science. Society benefits when we use our critical thinking skills, whether it is protecting ourselves from bad medical advice, asking someone "why?" so they have to re-examine their position, or protecting others by fighting against/questioning bad political decisions. I realize this stance makes me a dick. It is indeed regrettable that there are not more people out there being dicks about it.
I don't completely disagree with what you're saying-just your approach. She came here for other opinions and insight, and some of the suggestions have included her going back to question the doctor more thoroughly. I, personally, have zero problem calling out a professional, and agree that those of us that are able to have a social obligation to do so. These situations always make me think of my BF, who is painfully shy/high anxiety. I feel obligated to stand up for myself and others specifically because someone like him struggles so much to do so.
I just think this is more of a personality issue. She is questioning what her doctor told her, and not simply accepting poor advice. Not everyone is aggressive and confident enough to question authority in the moment, even if they know that they probably should. Again, like my BF. And building up someone in an encouraging way tends to have a better outcome than brow beating them.
Either way, I agree with your moral stance, but not with your approach. I do apologize for calling you a dick. I read it as elitist, which does not seem to have been your intention.
I admit I had to laugh at being called a dick--it was entertaining, as disgruntled students would normally choose another perjorative for a female faculty member. I have a very tough skin.
I can certainly understand the protective instinct, having a shy husband (who is also a forensic chemist). My experience with scores of students (and professionals) in the hard sciences is that they tend to be very logical, love research and data, are resilient, and prefer to have a spade called a spade. I can't think of a single student of this sort who had any issue with a tough critique. Because they knew I was either right, or could bring forth additional information to provide nuance to their position. They are in an occupation where if they screw something up or listen to their feelings instead of drawing on the facts, they could compromise/destroy a meticulous experiment or kill someone.
To get the information she needed, all it required was a simple "why?" rather than any sort of confrontation, and asking "why" is a skill that would have been reinforced in every major class she took. My background is as a medievalist, and a doctor pooh-poohing the BMI charts would be as interesting as another medievalist, say, suggesting Beowulf was actually written by the Charlemagne. No matter how shy, an expert in either field should be confident enough to say "Hmmm, that's very interesting, tell me more." Not to mention the look that would naturally land on one's face when presented with such an interesting position.
I bet you're a hoot at parties. Really welcoming and not at all self important.
How is the view from your ivory tower?1 -
Interesting. Death can result from a chemist making a mistake. Death can also result from despair.
This forum has many folks fighting off despair. If you don't see empathy in your posts, don't post. It is one thing to correct misinformation, another to be unkind.4 -
French_Peasant wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »randilyn2013 wrote: »Neither myself or any family have ever had any eating disorders, or at least the kind where you are thin. Obesity, heart disease and diabetes do though. I just finished my degree in human biology so I know that crash dieting is neither sustainable nor healthy. I'm really looking long term for my health, which is why I've aiming for the normal range of the bmi chart.
This shouldn't matter but we do live in Indiana. There's a CDC report for Indiana that has 30% of adults obese and 66% overweight. I'm thinking it's more that even her "thin" patients aren't even at normal weights. I do have another follow up after an X-ray this week for my wrist and I can be more specific with my questions then.
*as someone had asked, my doctor is not thin and fit which could also be influencing her recommendation.
I'm from Indiana too, and have to say it would be an extremely questionable doctor who can't sort the 66% >25 BMI Hoosiers from the 44% <25 BMI Hoosiers. You say this is your primary suspicion--if so, I would have a) immediately started inspecting her wall to find where her medical degree was from, and b) made plans to find another doctor.
Also, just curious, since you have a degree that (I am assuming) has something to do with science (and I note the crimson color of the diploma case as well as the limestone Collegiate Gothic architecture in the background), and I hope has prepared you to be knowledgeable, curious, and insightful about human biology matters, as well as qualified you to have high-level scientific conversations: why wouldn't you have drawn on your field of expertise to immediately cross-examine the doctor on this odd opinion? Rather, you submit it to random internet strangers?
Because having a science based degree means you can't be made to feel uncomfortable when interacting with a professional? Many people have a hard time questioning their doctors or other people in a powerful position, when they are in a vulnerable one (i.e. a patient). Or maybe she was just surprised and needed this time to gather herself.
Either way, what a dick question. Insulting in about ten different ways. You tried to question her education and her intelligence, but frankly I question yours.
Having a degree in the hard sciences (or really any classical liberal field) makes it absolutely incumbent upon you to question professionals and others in positions of power, no matter how uncomfortable it makes you feel. It is, in fact, a moral obligation, and the reason our society supports education in the first place and pours billions of tax dollars into it and forces science majors to take courses in the humanities and lit majors to take courses in science. Society benefits when we use our critical thinking skills, whether it is protecting ourselves from bad medical advice, asking someone "why?" so they have to re-examine their position, or protecting others by fighting against/questioning bad political decisions. I realize this stance makes me a dick. It is indeed regrettable that there are not more people out there being dicks about it.
I don't completely disagree with what you're saying-just your approach. She came here for other opinions and insight, and some of the suggestions have included her going back to question the doctor more thoroughly. I, personally, have zero problem calling out a professional, and agree that those of us that are able to have a social obligation to do so. These situations always make me think of my BF, who is painfully shy/high anxiety. I feel obligated to stand up for myself and others specifically because someone like him struggles so much to do so.
I just think this is more of a personality issue. She is questioning what her doctor told her, and not simply accepting poor advice. Not everyone is aggressive and confident enough to question authority in the moment, even if they know that they probably should. Again, like my BF. And building up someone in an encouraging way tends to have a better outcome than brow beating them.
Either way, I agree with your moral stance, but not with your approach. I do apologize for calling you a dick. I read it as elitist, which does not seem to have been your intention.
I admit I had to laugh at being called a dick--it was entertaining, as disgruntled students would normally choose another perjorative for a female faculty member. I have a very tough skin.
I can certainly understand the protective instinct, having a shy husband (who is also a forensic chemist). My experience with scores of students (and professionals) in the hard sciences is that they tend to be very logical, love research and data, are resilient, and prefer to have a spade called a spade. I can't think of a single student of this sort who had any issue with a tough critique. Because they knew I was either right, or could bring forth additional information to provide nuance to their position. They are in an occupation where if they screw something up or listen to their feelings instead of drawing on the facts, they could compromise/destroy a meticulous experiment or kill someone.
To get the information she needed, all it required was a simple "why?" rather than any sort of confrontation, and asking "why" is a skill that would have been reinforced in every major class she took. My background is as a medievalist, and a doctor pooh-poohing the BMI charts would be as interesting as another medievalist, say, suggesting Beowulf was actually written by the Charlemagne. No matter how shy, an expert in either field should be confident enough to say "Hmmm, that's very interesting, tell me more." Not to mention the look that would naturally land on one's face when presented with such an interesting position.
Right, but she DID ask why-just not out loud to the doctor in the moment. (And, for many people asking "why" is a confrontation). That's the whole point we are disagreeing on. You think it is imperative that she immediately react to the situation. That she is morally obligated based on her education level (or based on her specific degree I suppose). I think it's enough that she recognized the problem, came here (or anywhere) to get feedback, and came to her own conclusion.
It feels, to me, like black and white thinking on your part. The fact is, she is not your student. Students should be held to a very high standard, and maybe there would be no exceptions because of the fear of a slippery slope-or simply because standards are there for a reason. But the real world is rarely so black and white. People are people, and often they need support and encouragement to do the right thing.2 -
This forum has many folks fighting off despair. If you don't see empathy in your posts, don't post. It is one thing to correct misinformation, another to be unkind.
How are people being unkind?
OP doesn't seem to have had a bad experience that she is asking for empathy (or sympathy) for, and the doctor was not mean to her, and she seems comfortable doing what she was going to do anyway.
I read the post as "can you believe my doctor said this? totally nuts, am I right?" kind of thing.
And from what she said, yeah, I think the doctor would have been totally wrong.
The problem is that I don't think doctors are generally super stupid, and the advice that OP says was given (don't lose below 150 even though you are 5'2, definitely not) makes no sense without more.
So either we decide there was absolutely nothing more to it, and tell the OP what she seems to want to hear (yeah, your doctor is totally wrong, must be because everyone else in IN is fat), or we suggest that it might be important to find out more about what the doctor was thinking and that it's at least possible there was some kind of confusion or miscommunication or something more that needed to be understood, and that questions would have been important.
I say this not because I think OP did anything wrong (I think she's going to follow up with the doctor), and I think it's entirely possible she just got some weird doctor or maybe the doctor has past experiences (several patients of the OP's age who lost weight rapidly and turned out to have EDs) that influenced her too much. I say it because I've had experiences with parents who don't ask questions they should and don't always understand what the doctor is saying correctly, and I've seen lots of MFP threads where miscommunication between a patient and doctor seems to have happened.
I admit I'm not clear on what the purpose of the thread was supposed to be -- it struck me as a "isn't my doctor dumb, you guys" rather than a real request for other thoughts/input as OP seemed comfortable in rejecting the advice, and before posting an "isn't this person dumb" kind of thread I do kind of think there needs to be a higher bar in being sure you understand what the person was saying and why.
But as people noted everyone is different, so maybe others thought she was really seeking a reality check on whether the advice as she understood it seems wrong (which I think we all agree it does).
I didn't think French Peasant raising the "asking questions and challenging something that seems off to you should be the first response" was at all mean or rude, and I think some of the responses to her are quite uncalled for.
Personally, if a doctor said something I didn't understand I likely would not want to give away my confusion (a weakness) and would go research and then kick myself I hadn't asked, since it's not easy to just call back IME. But with something that's pretty simple and apparently did seem clearly wrong to OP (and in an analogous situation if my doctor told me I should not lose beyond 155), I don't really think it would be that confusing.
(I'd probably conclude it's because the doctor knows the stats on weight loss, lacks faith in me to lose more, and lose it anyway without posting about the doctor, to really think about what I would do. But I've not been in that situation, my doctor definitely wouldn't tell someone that she shouldn't try to get into the healthy range unless there was something more to it.)2 -
randilyn2013 wrote: »I recently got serious about my weightloss and following a 6 week check up for a non weight related issue lost 16lbs at the doctors office. My doctor was happy with my loss but when I mentioned the "healthy" weight range for my height she discouraged losing that much. Saying I should keep a bit of "adult weight" on and she didn't want me to have to be carded anytime I wanted a glass of wine.. I'm 22 and 5'2" for their office I started at 191 and weighed 175 yesterday and her recommended weight was around 150lbs rather than around 135. I don't get why she would recommend me to stay overweight??
Get a different doctor. Seriously. I am 5'7", and when I am at 150, I am definitely carrying too much fat. 135 is a perfect weight for me.1 -
One very intelligent person asked "do you have a history of previous Eating Disorder". Original poster dropped off after that.
-Also eating 1200 cals with exericise.
-Previously lost weight very rapidly.
The doctor KNEW SOMETHING WAS UP. Why is this thread still going on?2
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