How to answer comments like...:
theledger5
Posts: 63 Member
This ....
food sensitivity = inflammation = hormone dysregulation = weight gain. All calories are not equal. Calorie in and calories out is 70's thinking. ( I am a qualified nutritionist)
food sensitivity = inflammation = hormone dysregulation = weight gain. All calories are not equal. Calorie in and calories out is 70's thinking. ( I am a qualified nutritionist)
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Replies
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What are you saying? :huh:5
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Not a clear posted question.
A food sensitivity can = inflammation. https://www.foodintol.com/latest-news/16-medical-research-news/5-inflammatory-disease-and-food-intolerance3 -
It was on a thyroid group where people are saying that CICO is outdated and that it doesn't work for everyone with health conditions such as autoimmune and food sensitivities etc.0
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Just use the search function here for "CICO" and "is a calorie really just a calorie" and you'll find plenty of good talking points as this is discussed time and again on these boards.3
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Thyroid/Autoimmune can affect CI and CO, but they don't invalidate the equation. They just add additional variables to be accounted for on one or both sides of the equation.
There are Thyroid and Autoimmune/Celiac folks who've successfully lost weight and kept it off here and elsewhere. It's harder, and it's different, but it's not impossible.
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theledger5 wrote: »It was on a thyroid group where people are saying that CICO is outdated and that it doesn't work for everyone with health conditions such as autoimmune and food sensitivities etc.
People who say that are:
1) Uneducated in how weight management really works
2) Making excuses so they can remain a 'victim' to their inability to lose weight
3) Both.
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theledger5 wrote: »It was on a thyroid group where people are saying that CICO is outdated a
CICO can hardly be outdated. It's physics.
Whatever diet you decide to adopt ... whatever foods you decide to eat or avoid ... if you're losing weight, behind the scenes it's CICO.
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theledger5 wrote: »It was on a thyroid group where people are saying that CICO is outdated a
CICO can hardly be outdated. It's physics.
Whatever diet you decide to adopt ... whatever foods you decide to eat or avoid ... if you're losing weight, behind the scenes it's CICO.
If your body absorbs those nutrients.
If your body is sensitive to a specific food or is unable to process something, the calories are not absorbed which would mean if you ate 500 calories of something and your body could only absorb 20% of it, you've really only had 100 calories when you would say CI is 500.18 -
I think you do the same thing we do, repeat the truth 10,000 times for ten years.
Then start over and do it some more. Forums (esp thyroid forums) are going to be full of people looking for excuses.5 -
RIght. But that's just another variable like stanmann571 said.0
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RAD_Fitness wrote: »theledger5 wrote: »It was on a thyroid group where people are saying that CICO is outdated a
CICO can hardly be outdated. It's physics.
Whatever diet you decide to adopt ... whatever foods you decide to eat or avoid ... if you're losing weight, behind the scenes it's CICO.
If your body absorbs those nutrients.
If your body is sensitive to a specific food or is unable to process something, the calories are not absorbed which would mean if you ate 500 calories of something and your body could only absorb 20% of it, you've really only had 100 calories when you would say CI is 500.
The CI is still 500. It's just that you'll end up excreting the rest - so your CO would increase by 400. In either case, it's a net of 100.
eta: Not saying this might not screw up one's calculations, which may make it more difficult to figure out how much to eat, but CICO still applies.1 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »theledger5 wrote: »It was on a thyroid group where people are saying that CICO is outdated and that it doesn't work for everyone with health conditions such as autoimmune and food sensitivities etc.
People who say that are:
1) Uneducated in how weight management really works
2) Making excuses so they can remain a 'victim' to their inability to lose weight
3) Both.
Just drop this quote and walk away.3 -
Wow. People really don't understand thyroid disease. It makes me pretty angry reading these ignorant comments.9
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PinupGirl13 wrote: »Wow. People really don't understand thyroid disease. It makes me pretty angry reading these ignorant comments.
I have thyroid disease. That's why I can speak about it. 30 years of being under doctors' care for it. I'm at a healthy BMI. Once I found my weight-loss numbers, I lost weight. You can too.
Are you having trouble losing weight? Open your diary, maybe I (and others) can help.
It's still a matter of calories in < calories out. You just have to find your number.13 -
PinupGirl13 wrote: »Wow. People really don't understand thyroid disease. It makes me pretty angry reading these ignorant comments.
Then you mis-understand them.
CICO is straightforward physics. Nothing special about it from a fundamental perspective. Where the thyroid issues come into play is that the calculators (or better term is estimators) online may not work out of the box, you may have to adjust your calories because of the thyroid issues, and only time and playing with what you eat will get you there. But CICO still works fine.
You can't disagree with gravity just because a helium balloon goes up. And that's all that is being talked about here.15 -
^^This.cmriverside wrote: »PinupGirl13 wrote: »Wow. People really don't understand thyroid disease. It makes me pretty angry reading these ignorant comments.
I have thyroid disease. That's why I can speak about it. 30 years of being under doctors' care for it. I'm at a healthy BMI. Once I found my weight-loss numbers, I lost weight. You can too.
Are you having trouble losing weight? Open your diary, maybe I (and others) can help.
It's still a matter of calories in < calories out. You just have to find your number.
And this^^Tacklewasher wrote: »PinupGirl13 wrote: »Wow. People really don't understand thyroid disease. It makes me pretty angry reading these ignorant comments.
Then you mis-understand them.
CICO is straightforward physics. Nothing special about it from a fundamental perspective. Where the thyroid issues come into play is that the calculators (or better term is estimators) online may not work out of the box, you may have to adjust your calories because of the thyroid issues, and only time and playing with what you eat will get you there. But CICO still works fine.
You can't disagree with gravity just because a helium balloon goes up. And that's all that is being talked about here.
I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism and Hashimoto's decades ago. Properly medicated, my weight loss was pretty comparable to someone without my thyroid insufficiencies. Did I have to tweak stuff a little? Yes. But weight loss was still entirely doable. I lost 75 lbs, reached my goal weight and have been in maintenance for a year and a half.
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I'm not sure I understand the original post2
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CattOfTheGarage wrote: »I'm not sure I understand the original post
lol. No one did.
We don't let that stop us.20 -
theledger5 wrote: »It was on a thyroid group where people are saying that CICO is outdated and that it doesn't work for everyone with health conditions such as autoimmune and food sensitivities etc.
CICO is only thing that seems to be working for me and I have auto immune thyroid problems. My calories burnt through exercise is lower than most but CICO still works. I think the group is using excuses - every group I have joined (and since left) spent so much time saying weight gain was inevitable and weight loss impossible and I wasted too many years fat and believing them6 -
theledger5 wrote: »This ....
food sensitivity = inflammation = hormone dysregulation = weight gain. All calories are not equal. Calorie in and calories out is 70's thinking. ( I am a qualified nutritionist)
My qualified dietician disagrees with you.6 -
theledger5 wrote: »It was on a thyroid group where people are saying that CICO is outdated and that it doesn't work for everyone with health conditions such as autoimmune and food sensitivities etc.
From clinical observation thyroid impacts Resting Energy Expenditure (REE) ~5% on average. This equates to 80 kcals/day out of a 1600 kcal/day budget.
CICO is always the dominant factor in weight management.
I've been sans thyroid gland for 17 years. I gain/lose at just about the same rate as anyone else with my age/height/weight.4 -
theledger5 wrote: »It was on a thyroid group where people are saying that CICO is outdated and that it doesn't work for everyone with health conditions such as autoimmune and food sensitivities etc.
I'm an n=1, but CICO worked for me as someone with hypothyroid. Lost over 100 pounds. It can be challenging to lose weight until properly medicated. But I used the "my hormones are out of whack" as an excuse to not try.
When I did try, it worked.6 -
Sorry if I didn't make my original post clear. I basically wanted some help to argue (that's a hobby of mine!) on the CICO arguement. I'm a member of a thyroid group as I have no thyroid and see the same issues with people not losing weight. I explained the CICO and how it works and this was the reply I got.5
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PinupGirl13 wrote: »Wow. People really don't understand thyroid disease. It makes me pretty angry reading these ignorant comments.
Hypothyroid for 30 years here. Type 1 diabetic for 35. Fortunately, I've never used either one as an excuse.
Burn more than you eat, and you still lose weight. The actual numbers vary, but the science does not.6 -
theledger5 wrote: »Sorry if I didn't make my original post clear. I basically wanted some help to argue (that's a hobby of mine!) on the CICO arguement. I'm a member of a thyroid group as I have no thyroid and see the same issues with people not losing weight. I explained the CICO and how it works and this was the reply I got.
Warning - you're going to get a lot of pushback regarding CICO on thyroid forums.
Thyroid has become an excuse for many people - it certainly was for me for 14 years. Take that away and they feel this becomes an issue of blaming/shaming. There are mountains of misinformation/disinformation from unscrupulous people trying to make a buck promoting a diet plan or supplements.
Combat this with data. Having a thyroid disorder does not doom anyone to being overweight. There are several elite level athletes out there with hypothyroidism.2 -
theledger5 wrote: »Sorry if I didn't make my original post clear. I basically wanted some help to argue (that's a hobby of mine!) on the CICO arguement. I'm a member of a thyroid group as I have no thyroid and see the same issues with people not losing weight. I explained the CICO and how it works and this was the reply I got.
What you eat and how much both matter so instead of beating the reductive CICO drum meet them in the middle. Acknowledge that calorie counting is an estimate, explain it that doesn't have to be 100% accurate to still work, and agree that yes, the food you eat matters, but it's a small part of the equation when it comes to weight loss.3 -
I will admit that I was one of these people who felt my lack of thyroid was holding me back weight loss wise. I felt I was doing loads of exercise and cut my cals down to 1600 when Fitbit said I was burning 2500 a day! I did have to play around with my calories a lot to start seeing the loss, I have found 1400 works well for me. I get frustrated on these forums by people saying - go gluten/dairy free that will help, go keto/pales that will help blah blah. I try and explain CICO applies to all 'diets' but falls on deaf ears and get serious abuse! Think I will have to come off the pages to avoid the debates haha.3
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It might also be worth reminding people that if their labs and medication are in check, then it really does come down to the calories and expenditures.
Case in point, albeit an N of 1: Last year, I was running super hyperthyroid (TSH = .001). I was *easily* losing 1.4 pounds a week on average, which is large, considering my weight then was hovering in the 130s.
This year? Well, I'm back to normal from a TSH perspective. If I'm not careful with my logging -- and I know I've been more lax lately than I really should -- I stay at a plateau (now hovering in the lower 120s, to upper 110s). And I don't get the extra assistance to cover those errors from my meds being off.
It would be super easy and convenient to blame my dead as a doornail thyroid. But I know the reality is that sometimes, I'm not on point with my logging, and this year, I don't have the medically-induced hyper situation to cover it up.0 -
theledger5 wrote: »I will admit that I was one of these people who felt my lack of thyroid was holding me back weight loss wise. I felt I was doing loads of exercise and cut my cals down to 1600 when Fitbit said I was burning 2500 a day! I did have to play around with my calories a lot to start seeing the loss, I have found 1400 works well for me. I get frustrated on these forums by people saying - go gluten/dairy free that will help, go keto/pales that will help blah blah. I try and explain CICO applies to all 'diets' but falls on deaf ears and get serious abuse! Think I will have to come off the pages to avoid the debates haha.
Most of us were deluded at some point. I'm especially irate at the misinformation coming from the medical community.
Gluten/dairy free will work...as long as you maintain a caloric deficit.
Keto/paleo will work...as long as you maintain a caloric deficit.
How I respond to this nonsense? Gravity may be 1600s thinking...still results in people falling off cliffs. Physical laws don't care if you believe in them or not.3 -
theledger5 wrote: »I will admit that I was one of these people who felt my lack of thyroid was holding me back weight loss wise. I felt I was doing loads of exercise and cut my cals down to 1600 when Fitbit said I was burning 2500 a day! I did have to play around with my calories a lot to start seeing the loss, I have found 1400 works well for me. I get frustrated on these forums by people saying - go gluten/dairy free that will help, go keto/pales that will help blah blah. I try and explain CICO applies to all 'diets' but falls on deaf ears and get serious abuse! Think I will have to come off the pages to avoid the debates haha.
There is enough anecdotal evidence to say that certain foods are better for hypo patients, but the same goes for any weight-loss plan. I do better when I limit my wheat intake, but I do it so I won't over-eat. Wheat tends to make me crazy bingey for some reason. I also used to suffer from multiple crippling migraines per month and I found wheat was one of those foods that triggered me, migraine-wise. It seems migraines and hypothyroid is also a thing: but I'm not stating that as fact, merely something I've observed in forums. So it makes sense both from a weight-loss and a pain and suffering viewpoint to limit that which causes problems.0
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