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  • CSARdiver
    CSARdiver Posts: 6,252 Member
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    theledger5 wrote: »
    It was on a thyroid group where people are saying that CICO is outdated and that it doesn't work for everyone with health conditions such as autoimmune and food sensitivities etc.

    From clinical observation thyroid impacts Resting Energy Expenditure (REE) ~5% on average. This equates to 80 kcals/day out of a 1600 kcal/day budget.

    CICO is always the dominant factor in weight management.

    I've been sans thyroid gland for 17 years. I gain/lose at just about the same rate as anyone else with my age/height/weight.
  • CSARdiver
    CSARdiver Posts: 6,252 Member
    edited August 2017
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    theledger5 wrote: »
    Sorry if I didn't make my original post clear. I basically wanted some help to argue (that's a hobby of mine!) on the CICO arguement. I'm a member of a thyroid group as I have no thyroid and see the same issues with people not losing weight. I explained the CICO and how it works and this was the reply I got.

    Warning - you're going to get a lot of pushback regarding CICO on thyroid forums.

    Thyroid has become an excuse for many people - it certainly was for me for 14 years. Take that away and they feel this becomes an issue of blaming/shaming. There are mountains of misinformation/disinformation from unscrupulous people trying to make a buck promoting a diet plan or supplements.

    Combat this with data. Having a thyroid disorder does not doom anyone to being overweight. There are several elite level athletes out there with hypothyroidism.
  • AlabasterVerve
    AlabasterVerve Posts: 3,171 Member
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    theledger5 wrote: »
    Sorry if I didn't make my original post clear. I basically wanted some help to argue (that's a hobby of mine!) on the CICO arguement. I'm a member of a thyroid group as I have no thyroid and see the same issues with people not losing weight. I explained the CICO and how it works and this was the reply I got.

    What you eat and how much both matter so instead of beating the reductive CICO drum meet them in the middle. Acknowledge that calorie counting is an estimate, explain it that doesn't have to be 100% accurate to still work, and agree that yes, the food you eat matters, but it's a small part of the equation when it comes to weight loss.
  • theledger5
    theledger5 Posts: 63 Member
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    I will admit that I was one of these people who felt my lack of thyroid was holding me back weight loss wise. I felt I was doing loads of exercise and cut my cals down to 1600 when Fitbit said I was burning 2500 a day! I did have to play around with my calories a lot to start seeing the loss, I have found 1400 works well for me. I get frustrated on these forums by people saying - go gluten/dairy free that will help, go keto/pales that will help blah blah. I try and explain CICO applies to all 'diets' but falls on deaf ears and get serious abuse! Think I will have to come off the pages to avoid the debates haha.
  • collectingblues
    collectingblues Posts: 2,541 Member
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    It might also be worth reminding people that if their labs and medication are in check, then it really does come down to the calories and expenditures.

    Case in point, albeit an N of 1: Last year, I was running super hyperthyroid (TSH = .001). I was *easily* losing 1.4 pounds a week on average, which is large, considering my weight then was hovering in the 130s.

    This year? Well, I'm back to normal from a TSH perspective. If I'm not careful with my logging -- and I know I've been more lax lately than I really should -- I stay at a plateau (now hovering in the lower 120s, to upper 110s). And I don't get the extra assistance to cover those errors from my meds being off.

    It would be super easy and convenient to blame my dead as a doornail thyroid. But I know the reality is that sometimes, I'm not on point with my logging, and this year, I don't have the medically-induced hyper situation to cover it up.
  • CSARdiver
    CSARdiver Posts: 6,252 Member
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    theledger5 wrote: »
    I will admit that I was one of these people who felt my lack of thyroid was holding me back weight loss wise. I felt I was doing loads of exercise and cut my cals down to 1600 when Fitbit said I was burning 2500 a day! I did have to play around with my calories a lot to start seeing the loss, I have found 1400 works well for me. I get frustrated on these forums by people saying - go gluten/dairy free that will help, go keto/pales that will help blah blah. I try and explain CICO applies to all 'diets' but falls on deaf ears and get serious abuse! Think I will have to come off the pages to avoid the debates haha.

    Most of us were deluded at some point. I'm especially irate at the misinformation coming from the medical community.

    Gluten/dairy free will work...as long as you maintain a caloric deficit.
    Keto/paleo will work...as long as you maintain a caloric deficit.

    How I respond to this nonsense? Gravity may be 1600s thinking...still results in people falling off cliffs. Physical laws don't care if you believe in them or not.
  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 33,958 Member
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    theledger5 wrote: »
    I will admit that I was one of these people who felt my lack of thyroid was holding me back weight loss wise. I felt I was doing loads of exercise and cut my cals down to 1600 when Fitbit said I was burning 2500 a day! I did have to play around with my calories a lot to start seeing the loss, I have found 1400 works well for me. I get frustrated on these forums by people saying - go gluten/dairy free that will help, go keto/pales that will help blah blah. I try and explain CICO applies to all 'diets' but falls on deaf ears and get serious abuse! Think I will have to come off the pages to avoid the debates haha.

    There is enough anecdotal evidence to say that certain foods are better for hypo patients, but the same goes for any weight-loss plan. I do better when I limit my wheat intake, but I do it so I won't over-eat. Wheat tends to make me crazy bingey for some reason. I also used to suffer from multiple crippling migraines per month and I found wheat was one of those foods that triggered me, migraine-wise. It seems migraines and hypothyroid is also a thing: but I'm not stating that as fact, merely something I've observed in forums. So it makes sense both from a weight-loss and a pain and suffering viewpoint to limit that which causes problems.
  • LucasLean
    LucasLean Posts: 100 Member
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    Eating less calories than maintenance will help you lose weight. It's not complicated, but depends on if someone wants to make it complicated.

  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,576 Member
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    theledger5 wrote: »
    It was on a thyroid group where people are saying that CICO is outdated and that it doesn't work for everyone with health conditions such as autoimmune and food sensitivities etc.

    Well, they may be right as far as weight gain goes since CI<CO only applies to fat gain/loss and weight is more than fat. Calories in and calories out was 70's thinking, but that doesn't make it wrong.

    All calories are not equal doesn't really have a meaning but I think we all know what is meant nonetheless.
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
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    AlabasterVerve wrote: »
    theledger5 wrote: »
    Sorry if I didn't make my original post clear. I basically wanted some help to argue (that's a hobby of mine!) on the CICO arguement. I'm a member of a thyroid group as I have no thyroid and see the same issues with people not losing weight. I explained the CICO and how it works and this was the reply I got.

    What you eat and how much both matter so instead of beating the reductive CICO drum meet them in the middle. Acknowledge that calorie counting is an estimate, explain it that doesn't have to be 100% accurate to still work, and agree that yes, the food you eat matters, but it's a small part of the equation when it comes to weight loss.

    You are grinding your own ax there. (I see things didn't change much with you in the 3 years I was inactive). CICO for weight loss. The food you eat for nutrition and satiety. Mixing the 2 is nonsense.
  • CattOfTheGarage
    CattOfTheGarage Posts: 2,750 Member
    edited August 2017
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    What you're trying to do is pretty hard and thankless. If it were me, I'd stay away from trying to overturn the accepted dogma of an online community, it tends to be pretty stubborn. Instead I'd look for one that already talks sense.

    But if you decide to persist, your quest is noble. Ultimately the arguments from physics and common sense (how can a body get heavier unless it's taking in extra stuff?) seem to me the most powerful.

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