Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Soda Tax
Replies
-
lemurcat12 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Cherimoose wrote: »czmiles926 wrote: »However if large amounts of sugar is consumed frequently enough, the insulin receptors on the cells no longer respond to the presence of insulin and blood glucose levels remain too high for too long. This is type 2 diabetes.
Sounds good in theory, but...
"Sugar consumption will not directly cause diabetes. However, excess sugar consumption can cause weight gain. Obesity increases the risk of diabetes."
medicalnewstoday.com/articles/317246.php
Myth: Sugar Causes Diabetes
https://diabetes.org.uk/Guide-to-diabetes/Enjoy-food/Eating-with-diabetes/Diabetes-food-myths/Myth-sugar-causes-diabetes/
Might as well tax brown rice, fruit, and whole wheat bread, since those can cause obesity & diabetes when eaten in excess.
Soda was a common beverage for decades before obesity became an epidemic around the 1980s. Soda consumption has actually dropped to almost the level it was in the 80s. The tax isn't based on statistics and science, it's about government officials trying to appear useful, while acquiring money to pay for their wasteful spending habits.
This is true, but I can also tell you as a kid in the '60s soda was maybe once every couple weeks. At a gas station it was a 10 oz bottle. If at home you split a 16 oz.
It's hard to compare, because families are different, different customs in different social circles, but this is consistent with what I recall from even a bit later.
In the 1970s I was less than 10, and we almost never had soda, period (which could be a function of age). My mom had diet (Tab, I think) occasionally. I only recall having it at McD's or the like, and it was a small. I think we got cans when I was out with my cousins a time or two, and they were the half cans, which were considered what kids should have, but I think that was possibly early '80s.
In the '80s, when I was in high school (and before), I recall having soda occasionally, but nothing more than a can or a normal sized fountain drink (maybe medium), and the latter only if we were at a fast food place or restaurant. Not routinely after school, not at school, and not at meals, where I was expected to have milk or water.
In college I'd have soda somewhat more (diet by that time), but those huge tubs were still not normal and I'd basically get one at the snack bar or maybe get one from the vending machine when studying.
I drank a ton of diet for a while in my 20s, since it was freely available at work.
It seems to me that drinking a lot, at least as a kid, is much more common now (or since I've been an adult) than it was in the '80s or '70s, but could this be a "kids, get off my lawn" thing? It could be.
I also see HUGE differences in social groups, as generally speaking I don't think it's a regularly drink a whole lot kind of thing for my friends' kids, either (they also eat vegetables or at least their parents serve them vegetables, so). It's something you get at a restaurant or as a treat. Do kids in high school buy them commonly with their own money? Probably (I live near a high school and a 7-11, so see that), but I don't think that's wildly different than it was. There are cultural changes, probably, but not across the board.
I was a kid in the 80s and I always had soda available. I remember in the 3rd grade (so mid- late 80s), that we could buy a can of soda at recess. We always had it at home, but were limited to what we were allowed to drink. In addition to soda, we often had things like Hi-C or CapriSun, Kool-aid or even the little really cheap plastic jugs that were basically colored sugar water. We drank that stuff pretty liberally and always had sweet tea (recipe was 1 and 1/3 cups of sugar per gallon, so it was REALLY sweet) for meal times. We drank lots of water when we were outside playing or doing yard work, etc., but there was always an abundance of sugar sweetened drinks available.
ETA: Vending machines full of soda and sugary drinks were abundant in high school, but I don't remember them in middle school.
I was a chubby kid, though, so maybe that was part of it
? My siblings were pretty normal weight but they tended toward the physical activity more than I did. I hated the sun and liked to read. 2 -
gearhead426hemi wrote: »
1. It is way more expensive to eat healthy and it is a fact. Once people realize nothing healthy comes from a can or a box then they will know the true understanding of eating healthy. If the first ingredient in what you are eating isn't what you are eating it can't be good for you.
This is just false.
Seriously, where do people come up with this stuff?
5 -
For what it's worth, here is a Business Insider article showing declining soda sales:
http://www.businessinsider.com/americans-are-drinking-less-soda-2016-3
Soda peaked in 1998 and is now lower than it was in the 1980's.
Soda was a treat in our house growing up in the 80's but was rather common at my grandparents. I started drinking it more regularly when I went away to college in 94 until about a year ago when I switched to diet.
Yeah, I recall reading an article attributing part of that to the rise of energy drinks, but everything I saw googling says nothing about that and just that water sales are up. (Unfortunately with soda diet is down, non diet not so much, which isn't necessarily helpful with weight and could just mean that people have gotten scared of artificial sweeteners.)
(Unpopular opinion in the wrong thread?: I hate bottled water, but only because it seems like a waste of money to me. I obviously don't judge others for buying them or have any opinion, and I've bought them when I needed a bottle for the gym and forgot to bring one or wanted something when on a road trip and hadn't brought enough.)1 -
Christine_72 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »2 take out pizzas for $10? You can't even get 1 here for that cost.
I can definitely prepare a meal for 4 with less than $25 you just don't know how to shop properly. I spend about $100 a month on groceries.
Why chicken breast? Thighs are much cheaper. How many cobs of corn is that? You can buy it now for dirt cheap, way cheaper than $5. Frozen corn is cheaper too. Lots of vegetables you can get for less than $5 for 4 servings. Why do you need olive oil and flour or even corn bread?
$100 a month on Groceries?? I spend quite a bit more than that per WEEK for two of us. We eat well, but not like kings.
ETA: 1 Large pizza (regular supreme), 8 slices, so 4 slices each for me and hubby is $17 delivered. Normal sized slices, not American size.
I am single and I live in poverty so it isn't really a choice but I'm not starving.1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Cherimoose wrote: »czmiles926 wrote: »However if large amounts of sugar is consumed frequently enough, the insulin receptors on the cells no longer respond to the presence of insulin and blood glucose levels remain too high for too long. This is type 2 diabetes.
Sounds good in theory, but...
"Sugar consumption will not directly cause diabetes. However, excess sugar consumption can cause weight gain. Obesity increases the risk of diabetes."
medicalnewstoday.com/articles/317246.php
Myth: Sugar Causes Diabetes
https://diabetes.org.uk/Guide-to-diabetes/Enjoy-food/Eating-with-diabetes/Diabetes-food-myths/Myth-sugar-causes-diabetes/
Might as well tax brown rice, fruit, and whole wheat bread, since those can cause obesity & diabetes when eaten in excess.
Soda was a common beverage for decades before obesity became an epidemic around the 1980s. Soda consumption has actually dropped to almost the level it was in the 80s. The tax isn't based on statistics and science, it's about government officials trying to appear useful, while acquiring money to pay for their wasteful spending habits.
This is true, but I can also tell you as a kid in the '60s soda was maybe once every couple weeks. At a gas station it was a 10 oz bottle. If at home you split a 16 oz.
It's hard to compare, because families are different, different customs in different social circles, but this is consistent with what I recall from even a bit later.
In the 1970s I was less than 10, and we almost never had soda, period (which could be a function of age). My mom had diet (Tab, I think) occasionally. I only recall having it at McD's or the like, and it was a small. I think we got cans when I was out with my cousins a time or two, and they were the half cans, which were considered what kids should have, but I think that was possibly early '80s.
In the '80s, when I was in high school (and before), I recall having soda occasionally, but nothing more than a can or a normal sized fountain drink (maybe medium), and the latter only if we were at a fast food place or restaurant. Not routinely after school, not at school, and not at meals, where I was expected to have milk or water.
In college I'd have soda somewhat more (diet by that time), but those huge tubs were still not normal and I'd basically get one at the snack bar or maybe get one from the vending machine when studying.
I drank a ton of diet for a while in my 20s, since it was freely available at work.
It seems to me that drinking a lot, at least as a kid, is much more common now (or since I've been an adult) than it was in the '80s or '70s, but could this be a "kids, get off my lawn" thing? It could be.
I also see HUGE differences in social groups, as generally speaking I don't think it's a regularly drink a whole lot kind of thing for my friends' kids, either (they also eat vegetables or at least their parents serve them vegetables, so). It's something you get at a restaurant or as a treat. Do kids in high school buy them commonly with their own money? Probably (I live near a high school and a 7-11, so see that), but I don't think that's wildly different than it was. There are cultural changes, probably, but not across the board.
I was a kid in the 80s and I always had soda available. I remember in the 3rd grade (so mid- late 80s), that we could buy a can of soda at recess. We always had it at home, but were limited to what we were allowed to drink. In addition to soda, we often had things like Hi-C or CapriSun, Kool-aid or even the little really cheap plastic jugs that were basically colored sugar water. We drank that stuff pretty liberally and always had sweet tea (recipe was 1 and 1/3 cups of sugar per gallon, so it was REALLY sweet) for meal times. We drank lots of water when we were outside playing or doing yard work, etc., but there was always an abundance of sugar sweetened drinks available.
When I was little it was Kool-aid (maybe Tang at one point, but that was never common for us), but I think of it as a summer-specific drink that you would have after playing outside or at snack time, not throughout the day. I don't think juice boxes or Capri Suns were common yet -- I recall them from when I was babysitting (in the '80s).
This is just lemurcat's memory corner. ;-)1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Cherimoose wrote: »czmiles926 wrote: »However if large amounts of sugar is consumed frequently enough, the insulin receptors on the cells no longer respond to the presence of insulin and blood glucose levels remain too high for too long. This is type 2 diabetes.
Sounds good in theory, but...
"Sugar consumption will not directly cause diabetes. However, excess sugar consumption can cause weight gain. Obesity increases the risk of diabetes."
medicalnewstoday.com/articles/317246.php
Myth: Sugar Causes Diabetes
https://diabetes.org.uk/Guide-to-diabetes/Enjoy-food/Eating-with-diabetes/Diabetes-food-myths/Myth-sugar-causes-diabetes/
Might as well tax brown rice, fruit, and whole wheat bread, since those can cause obesity & diabetes when eaten in excess.
Soda was a common beverage for decades before obesity became an epidemic around the 1980s. Soda consumption has actually dropped to almost the level it was in the 80s. The tax isn't based on statistics and science, it's about government officials trying to appear useful, while acquiring money to pay for their wasteful spending habits.
This is true, but I can also tell you as a kid in the '60s soda was maybe once every couple weeks. At a gas station it was a 10 oz bottle. If at home you split a 16 oz.
It's hard to compare, because families are different, different customs in different social circles, but this is consistent with what I recall from even a bit later.
In the 1970s I was less than 10, and we almost never had soda, period (which could be a function of age). My mom had diet (Tab, I think) occasionally. I only recall having it at McD's or the like, and it was a small. I think we got cans when I was out with my cousins a time or two, and they were the half cans, which were considered what kids should have, but I think that was possibly early '80s.
In the '80s, when I was in high school (and before), I recall having soda occasionally, but nothing more than a can or a normal sized fountain drink (maybe medium), and the latter only if we were at a fast food place or restaurant. Not routinely after school, not at school, and not at meals, where I was expected to have milk or water.
In college I'd have soda somewhat more (diet by that time), but those huge tubs were still not normal and I'd basically get one at the snack bar or maybe get one from the vending machine when studying.
I drank a ton of diet for a while in my 20s, since it was freely available at work.
It seems to me that drinking a lot, at least as a kid, is much more common now (or since I've been an adult) than it was in the '80s or '70s, but could this be a "kids, get off my lawn" thing? It could be.
I also see HUGE differences in social groups, as generally speaking I don't think it's a regularly drink a whole lot kind of thing for my friends' kids, either (they also eat vegetables or at least their parents serve them vegetables, so). It's something you get at a restaurant or as a treat. Do kids in high school buy them commonly with their own money? Probably (I live near a high school and a 7-11, so see that), but I don't think that's wildly different than it was. There are cultural changes, probably, but not across the board.
I was a kid in the 80s and I always had soda available. I remember in the 3rd grade (so mid- late 80s), that we could buy a can of soda at recess. We always had it at home, but were limited to what we were allowed to drink. In addition to soda, we often had things like Hi-C or CapriSun, Kool-aid or even the little really cheap plastic jugs that were basically colored sugar water. We drank that stuff pretty liberally and always had sweet tea (recipe was 1 and 1/3 cups of sugar per gallon, so it was REALLY sweet) for meal times. We drank lots of water when we were outside playing or doing yard work, etc., but there was always an abundance of sugar sweetened drinks available.
When I was little it was Kool-aid (maybe Tang at one point, but that was never common for us), but I think of it as a summer-specific drink that you would have after playing outside or at snack time, not throughout the day. I don't think juice boxes or Capri Suns were common yet -- I recall them from when I was babysitting (in the '80s).
This is just lemurcat's memory corner. ;-)
I was born in 76 and I had juice boxes every day at school1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »For what it's worth, here is a Business Insider article showing declining soda sales:
http://www.businessinsider.com/americans-are-drinking-less-soda-2016-3
Soda peaked in 1998 and is now lower than it was in the 1980's.
Soda was a treat in our house growing up in the 80's but was rather common at my grandparents. I started drinking it more regularly when I went away to college in 94 until about a year ago when I switched to diet.
Yeah, I recall reading an article attributing part of that to the rise of energy drinks, but everything I saw googling says nothing about that and just that water sales are up. (Unfortunately with soda diet is down, non diet not so much, which isn't necessarily helpful with weight and could just mean that people have gotten scared of artificial sweeteners.)
(Unpopular opinion in the wrong thread?: I hate bottled water, but only because it seems like a waste of money to me. I obviously don't judge others for buying them or have any opinion, and I've bought them when I needed a bottle for the gym and forgot to bring one or wanted something when on a road trip and hadn't brought enough.)
Ah, I didn't see the specifics about regular/diet.
Yeah, my tap water is fine and I can't imagine spending that money on something I can get for free. Though I do know some people's water is atrocious and they have no choice, a lot of people are just falling for the ads, like with everything else.1 -
singingflutelady wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Cherimoose wrote: »czmiles926 wrote: »However if large amounts of sugar is consumed frequently enough, the insulin receptors on the cells no longer respond to the presence of insulin and blood glucose levels remain too high for too long. This is type 2 diabetes.
Sounds good in theory, but...
"Sugar consumption will not directly cause diabetes. However, excess sugar consumption can cause weight gain. Obesity increases the risk of diabetes."
medicalnewstoday.com/articles/317246.php
Myth: Sugar Causes Diabetes
https://diabetes.org.uk/Guide-to-diabetes/Enjoy-food/Eating-with-diabetes/Diabetes-food-myths/Myth-sugar-causes-diabetes/
Might as well tax brown rice, fruit, and whole wheat bread, since those can cause obesity & diabetes when eaten in excess.
Soda was a common beverage for decades before obesity became an epidemic around the 1980s. Soda consumption has actually dropped to almost the level it was in the 80s. The tax isn't based on statistics and science, it's about government officials trying to appear useful, while acquiring money to pay for their wasteful spending habits.
This is true, but I can also tell you as a kid in the '60s soda was maybe once every couple weeks. At a gas station it was a 10 oz bottle. If at home you split a 16 oz.
It's hard to compare, because families are different, different customs in different social circles, but this is consistent with what I recall from even a bit later.
In the 1970s I was less than 10, and we almost never had soda, period (which could be a function of age). My mom had diet (Tab, I think) occasionally. I only recall having it at McD's or the like, and it was a small. I think we got cans when I was out with my cousins a time or two, and they were the half cans, which were considered what kids should have, but I think that was possibly early '80s.
In the '80s, when I was in high school (and before), I recall having soda occasionally, but nothing more than a can or a normal sized fountain drink (maybe medium), and the latter only if we were at a fast food place or restaurant. Not routinely after school, not at school, and not at meals, where I was expected to have milk or water.
In college I'd have soda somewhat more (diet by that time), but those huge tubs were still not normal and I'd basically get one at the snack bar or maybe get one from the vending machine when studying.
I drank a ton of diet for a while in my 20s, since it was freely available at work.
It seems to me that drinking a lot, at least as a kid, is much more common now (or since I've been an adult) than it was in the '80s or '70s, but could this be a "kids, get off my lawn" thing? It could be.
I also see HUGE differences in social groups, as generally speaking I don't think it's a regularly drink a whole lot kind of thing for my friends' kids, either (they also eat vegetables or at least their parents serve them vegetables, so). It's something you get at a restaurant or as a treat. Do kids in high school buy them commonly with their own money? Probably (I live near a high school and a 7-11, so see that), but I don't think that's wildly different than it was. There are cultural changes, probably, but not across the board.
I was a kid in the 80s and I always had soda available. I remember in the 3rd grade (so mid- late 80s), that we could buy a can of soda at recess. We always had it at home, but were limited to what we were allowed to drink. In addition to soda, we often had things like Hi-C or CapriSun, Kool-aid or even the little really cheap plastic jugs that were basically colored sugar water. We drank that stuff pretty liberally and always had sweet tea (recipe was 1 and 1/3 cups of sugar per gallon, so it was REALLY sweet) for meal times. We drank lots of water when we were outside playing or doing yard work, etc., but there was always an abundance of sugar sweetened drinks available.
When I was little it was Kool-aid (maybe Tang at one point, but that was never common for us), but I think of it as a summer-specific drink that you would have after playing outside or at snack time, not throughout the day. I don't think juice boxes or Capri Suns were common yet -- I recall them from when I was babysitting (in the '80s).
This is just lemurcat's memory corner. ;-)
I was born in 76 and I had juice boxes every day at school
That seems right. I am 6 years older than you, and my sister is your age and I recall her having them.0 -
gearhead426hemi wrote: »
You are right I don't price these things out I am just going off what I see walking through the store. Shopping for me consists of opening my freezer and walking through my garden or greenhouse.
I shop mostly at stores and yeah, your idea of what it costs to put a healthy meal together isn't accurate, (at least in my experience). I have a family of 5, plus 2 cats, and my weekly grocery budget is $100-which includes non-food items like cleaning supplies, health and beauty, paper goods etc. I can walk out of Aldi with a cart so full it's hard to push, for around $100. That includes fresh veg/fruit, frozen veg, whole grains, specialty items like my sprouted grains bread, dairy products, cat food, toilet paper, tampons, wild caught salmon, raw nuts and seeds, cereal, frozen chicken breasts, organic items etc etc etc. And then I supplement with seasonal, local produce as it's available and dirt cheap, (June-October).
I follow the DASH diet protocol, which is heralded as one of the 'healthiest' ways to eat, according to all sorts of medical and sciencey type peoples. I have no problem fitting in this style of eating, along with all the meals my family enjoys, with my grocery budget. We're also a pretty healthy family-me and the kids are in excellent health and ideal weights, and my husband is in good health except for some hereditary issues that have nothing to do with what he eats. None of us take prescription meds, we rarely get sick etc. We eat food from cans, boxes and bags every single day-and none of us has grown a tail yet
2 -
IMO, the tax is more of a "hassle tax," not a "health tax." It's a hassle for a lot of people to change their habits, so they'll suck it up and keep drinking what they want. But, a lot of people still have budgets. So, they might change some of their other items in order to keep their beverages in line with their expected expenditures. Instead of buying 1 brand of bread, they might opt for something less expensive. Bread is still bread, but unsweetened water is not still soda.
The city might think that they'll make extra money off this tax, but I don't think it'll be as much as expected. Today I went to my usual store to buy soda but I still only had my usual lunch budget. Instead of buying what I usually would have for lunch, I bought something less expensive but still had my usual drink. In total, I spent the same. It's a lot less of a hassle for me to select a different meal then it is for me to kick my soda habit.0 -
Do you guys get the 10 cents refund on cans and bottles? We get 10 cents back per can and bottle when we take them to the recyclers, there's a recycle depot in just about every suburb here. I think we're the only state to get 10 cents back, other states get 5 cents i *think.1
-
Christine_72 wrote: »Do you guys get the 10 cents refund on cans and bottles? We get 10 cents back per can and bottle when we take them to the recyclers, there's a recycle depot in just about every suburb here. I think we're the only state to get 10 cents back, other states get 5 cents i *think.
In Canada we pay 10 cents bottle/can deposit and when we bring it to the recycle depot we get 5 cents back1 -
singingflutelady wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »Do you guys get the 10 cents refund on cans and bottles? We get 10 cents back per can and bottle when we take them to the recyclers, there's a recycle depot in just about every suburb here. I think we're the only state to get 10 cents back, other states get 5 cents i *think.
In Canada we pay 10 cents bottle/can deposit and when we bring it to the recycle depot we get 5 cents back
It's totally worth hoarding them. We usually get $50-$60 back thanks to my husbands beer habit... At the time it feels like money for nothing 1 -
Christine_72 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »Do you guys get the 10 cents refund on cans and bottles? We get 10 cents back per can and bottle when we take them to the recyclers, there's a recycle depot in just about every suburb here. I think we're the only state to get 10 cents back, other states get 5 cents i *think.
In Canada we pay 10 cents bottle/can deposit and when we bring it to the recycle depot we get 5 cents back
It's totally worth hoarding them. We usually get $50-$60 back thanks to my husbands beer habit... At the time it feels like money for nothing
Oh I do. Not everyone does as they are lazy and they put them out in the normal recycling and there are always people going around on garbage day collecting them from the recycling bags.0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »Do you guys get the 10 cents refund on cans and bottles? We get 10 cents back per can and bottle when we take them to the recyclers, there's a recycle depot in just about every suburb here. I think we're the only state to get 10 cents back, other states get 5 cents i *think.
Depends on the state in the US.1 -
I don't buy them already so I don't care.0
-
Christine_72 wrote: »Do you guys get the 10 cents refund on cans and bottles? We get 10 cents back per can and bottle when we take them to the recyclers, there's a recycle depot in just about every suburb here. I think we're the only state to get 10 cents back, other states get 5 cents i *think.
Michigan here and it's 10 cents for most cans/plastic soda bottles and then glass bottles (mostly beer bottles). I actually turned in $30 worth of cans/bottles today-my husband collects them at work and then what we had in our house (couple months worth).1 -
Christine_72 wrote: »Do you guys get the 10 cents refund on cans and bottles? We get 10 cents back per can and bottle when we take them to the recyclers, there's a recycle depot in just about every suburb here. I think we're the only state to get 10 cents back, other states get 5 cents i *think.
I think there are only about 10 states in the U.S. that have bottle deposit laws.0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »2 take out pizzas for $10? You can't even get 1 here for that cost.
I can definitely prepare a meal for 4 with less than $25 you just don't know how to shop properly. I spend about $100 a month on groceries.
Why chicken breast? Thighs are much cheaper. How many cobs of corn is that? You can buy it now for dirt cheap, way cheaper than $5. Frozen corn is cheaper too. Lots of vegetables you can get for less than $5 for 4 servings. Why do you need olive oil and flour or even corn bread?
$100 a month on Groceries?? I spend quite a bit more than that per WEEK for two of us. We eat well, but not like kings.
ETA: 1 Large pizza (regular supreme), 8 slices, so 4 slices each for me and hubby is $17 delivered. Normal sized slices, not American size.
Well, yeah. Australia is notoriously expensive.0 -
*2
-
Here in Connecticut, we pay a 5 cent deposit for soda, beer, and water cans/bottles. Maybe some others, but I'm not entirely sure. We get that 5 cents back when we return them to the store (4 cents, IIRC, if we take them to a recycling center - maybe the one I sometimes went to was a private entity?) and nothing if we either throw them out or just dump them in our home recycling bin.0
-
lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Cherimoose wrote: »czmiles926 wrote: »However if large amounts of sugar is consumed frequently enough, the insulin receptors on the cells no longer respond to the presence of insulin and blood glucose levels remain too high for too long. This is type 2 diabetes.
Sounds good in theory, but...
"Sugar consumption will not directly cause diabetes. However, excess sugar consumption can cause weight gain. Obesity increases the risk of diabetes."
medicalnewstoday.com/articles/317246.php
Myth: Sugar Causes Diabetes
https://diabetes.org.uk/Guide-to-diabetes/Enjoy-food/Eating-with-diabetes/Diabetes-food-myths/Myth-sugar-causes-diabetes/
Might as well tax brown rice, fruit, and whole wheat bread, since those can cause obesity & diabetes when eaten in excess.
Soda was a common beverage for decades before obesity became an epidemic around the 1980s. Soda consumption has actually dropped to almost the level it was in the 80s. The tax isn't based on statistics and science, it's about government officials trying to appear useful, while acquiring money to pay for their wasteful spending habits.
This is true, but I can also tell you as a kid in the '60s soda was maybe once every couple weeks. At a gas station it was a 10 oz bottle. If at home you split a 16 oz.
It's hard to compare, because families are different, different customs in different social circles, but this is consistent with what I recall from even a bit later.
In the 1970s I was less than 10, and we almost never had soda, period (which could be a function of age). My mom had diet (Tab, I think) occasionally. I only recall having it at McD's or the like, and it was a small. I think we got cans when I was out with my cousins a time or two, and they were the half cans, which were considered what kids should have, but I think that was possibly early '80s.
In the '80s, when I was in high school (and before), I recall having soda occasionally, but nothing more than a can or a normal sized fountain drink (maybe medium), and the latter only if we were at a fast food place or restaurant. Not routinely after school, not at school, and not at meals, where I was expected to have milk or water.
In college I'd have soda somewhat more (diet by that time), but those huge tubs were still not normal and I'd basically get one at the snack bar or maybe get one from the vending machine when studying.
I drank a ton of diet for a while in my 20s, since it was freely available at work.
It seems to me that drinking a lot, at least as a kid, is much more common now (or since I've been an adult) than it was in the '80s or '70s, but could this be a "kids, get off my lawn" thing? It could be.
I also see HUGE differences in social groups, as generally speaking I don't think it's a regularly drink a whole lot kind of thing for my friends' kids, either (they also eat vegetables or at least their parents serve them vegetables, so). It's something you get at a restaurant or as a treat. Do kids in high school buy them commonly with their own money? Probably (I live near a high school and a 7-11, so see that), but I don't think that's wildly different than it was. There are cultural changes, probably, but not across the board.
I was a kid in the 80s and I always had soda available. I remember in the 3rd grade (so mid- late 80s), that we could buy a can of soda at recess. We always had it at home, but were limited to what we were allowed to drink. In addition to soda, we often had things like Hi-C or CapriSun, Kool-aid or even the little really cheap plastic jugs that were basically colored sugar water. We drank that stuff pretty liberally and always had sweet tea (recipe was 1 and 1/3 cups of sugar per gallon, so it was REALLY sweet) for meal times. We drank lots of water when we were outside playing or doing yard work, etc., but there was always an abundance of sugar sweetened drinks available.
When I was little it was Kool-aid (maybe Tang at one point, but that was never common for us), but I think of it as a summer-specific drink that you would have after playing outside or at snack time, not throughout the day. I don't think juice boxes or Capri Suns were common yet -- I recall them from when I was babysitting (in the '80s).
This is just lemurcat's memory corner. ;-)
I remember kindergarten in 1984 when we had Kool-aid and cookies for a snack every day. Chocolate milk and sugary cereal in the cafeteria. In high school, the vending machines were stocked with sodas and candy bars. MANY days I had a Dr. Pepper and Milky Way for lunch because I hated what the cafeteria was serving. Not bad calorie-wise I guess (150 for soda, 250-ish I'm guessing for the candy bar) but pretty nutritionally lacking. I wasn't overweight then, but wouldn't recommend that now 3 -
Hmm. Okay, I think it is fair because other things that can badly influence your health (i.e. alcohol or nicotine) usually also have their own higher tax. But overall, apart from the fact that taxes are usually meant to make money more than they're meant to help, I think it's a bit of a stupid move to try to coax people to do the "right" thing.
If you have a kid, you try to raise them so they can tell good from bad. What the government is doing here is slapping their "kids" butts without even telling them what they're doing wrong.
I don't think it's gonna have any effect. Most sweetened beverages are already more expensive than mineral water and people will still go and grab a Coke. They won't even think about why they're paying yet more money now, they'll grumble for a while and then just accept it while continuing to drink whatever they want whenever they want.0 -
Cherimoose wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »Did you just say any effect short of 100% is negligible?
Uh, no - i'm saying the effect on obesity levels will be close to zero. People will simply pay the tax like they do the bottle fee, or they'll switch from Coke to the cheaper generic brands of cola.. or to fruit drinks, which have similar calorie levels.
Soda consumption has already fallen 23% the last 20 years and is at a 30-year low. Did obesity go down? Nope, it rose 23%. It's not the soda.
Since obesity is from a calorie surplus, why not tax all food in proportion to its calorie content, and also tax anything that reduces activity levels, including computers, cars, and chairs. This is ridiculous of course, which is why singling out a beverage is ridiculous. It's just a feel-good, nanny state move that ignores the real issue, which is CICO. We can't tax our way out of that.
www.businessinsider.com/americans-are-drinking-less-soda-2016-3
www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db219.htm
I don't have any facts and data to support (maybe if I have some time to kill I'll look) but my perception is as soda consumption has fallen, you can chart a proportional (if not greater) increase in energy drinks and high calories coffee drinks.
Personally think the calories per person from the drinks with added sugar category is the same or increasing over the last 10+ years.0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »Cherimoose wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »Did you just say any effect short of 100% is negligible?
Uh, no - i'm saying the effect on obesity levels will be close to zero. People will simply pay the tax like they do the bottle fee, or they'll switch from Coke to the cheaper generic brands of cola.. or to fruit drinks, which have similar calorie levels.
Soda consumption has already fallen 23% the last 20 years and is at a 30-year low. Did obesity go down? Nope, it rose 23%. It's not the soda.
Since obesity is from a calorie surplus, why not tax all food in proportion to its calorie content, and also tax anything that reduces activity levels, including computers, cars, and chairs. This is ridiculous of course, which is why singling out a beverage is ridiculous. It's just a feel-good, nanny state move that ignores the real issue, which is CICO. We can't tax our way out of that.
www.businessinsider.com/americans-are-drinking-less-soda-2016-3
www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db219.htm
I don't have any facts and data to support (maybe if I have some time to kill I'll look) but my perception is as soda consumption has fallen, you can chart a proportional (if not greater) increase in energy drinks and high calories coffee drinks.
Personally think the calories per person from the drinks with added sugar category is the same or increasing over the last 10+ years.
You're right. Energy drinks and similar went up. Overall, calorie consumption from sugary beverages is still going down though.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662243/1 -
stevencloser wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Cherimoose wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »Did you just say any effect short of 100% is negligible?
Uh, no - i'm saying the effect on obesity levels will be close to zero. People will simply pay the tax like they do the bottle fee, or they'll switch from Coke to the cheaper generic brands of cola.. or to fruit drinks, which have similar calorie levels.
Soda consumption has already fallen 23% the last 20 years and is at a 30-year low. Did obesity go down? Nope, it rose 23%. It's not the soda.
Since obesity is from a calorie surplus, why not tax all food in proportion to its calorie content, and also tax anything that reduces activity levels, including computers, cars, and chairs. This is ridiculous of course, which is why singling out a beverage is ridiculous. It's just a feel-good, nanny state move that ignores the real issue, which is CICO. We can't tax our way out of that.
www.businessinsider.com/americans-are-drinking-less-soda-2016-3
www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db219.htm
I don't have any facts and data to support (maybe if I have some time to kill I'll look) but my perception is as soda consumption has fallen, you can chart a proportional (if not greater) increase in energy drinks and high calories coffee drinks.
Personally think the calories per person from the drinks with added sugar category is the same or increasing over the last 10+ years.
You're right. Energy drinks and similar went up. Overall, calorie consumption from sugary beverages is still going down though.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662243/
Didn't see anything in there to indicate those goofy high calorie coffee drinks were included in the analysis. Again, personal observation, but I noticed people I worked with bring in the high calorie Starbucks/Dunking Donuts coffee drinks instead of soda.1 -
Packerjohn wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Cherimoose wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »Did you just say any effect short of 100% is negligible?
Uh, no - i'm saying the effect on obesity levels will be close to zero. People will simply pay the tax like they do the bottle fee, or they'll switch from Coke to the cheaper generic brands of cola.. or to fruit drinks, which have similar calorie levels.
Soda consumption has already fallen 23% the last 20 years and is at a 30-year low. Did obesity go down? Nope, it rose 23%. It's not the soda.
Since obesity is from a calorie surplus, why not tax all food in proportion to its calorie content, and also tax anything that reduces activity levels, including computers, cars, and chairs. This is ridiculous of course, which is why singling out a beverage is ridiculous. It's just a feel-good, nanny state move that ignores the real issue, which is CICO. We can't tax our way out of that.
www.businessinsider.com/americans-are-drinking-less-soda-2016-3
www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db219.htm
I don't have any facts and data to support (maybe if I have some time to kill I'll look) but my perception is as soda consumption has fallen, you can chart a proportional (if not greater) increase in energy drinks and high calories coffee drinks.
Personally think the calories per person from the drinks with added sugar category is the same or increasing over the last 10+ years.
You're right. Energy drinks and similar went up. Overall, calorie consumption from sugary beverages is still going down though.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662243/
Didn't see anything in there to indicate those goofy high calorie coffee drinks were included in the analysis. Again, personal observation, but I noticed people I worked with bring in the high calorie Starbucks/Dunking Donuts coffee drinks instead of soda.
A girl I used to work with went to Starbucks twice a day. A venti chai latte with extra pumps of chai. It was not nonfat either. I was more astounded at how much she was spending just on coffee every day. That stuff adds up fast over time!1 -
More lawsuits...yesterday was Walgreens, now today McDonald's and 7-11 as well:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-mcdonalds-walgreens-soda-tax-lawsuits-0809-biz-20170808-story.html
0 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »More lawsuits...yesterday was Walgreens, now today McDonald's and 7-11 as well:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-mcdonalds-walgreens-soda-tax-lawsuits-0809-biz-20170808-story.html
I don't envy the retailers trying to deal with this. What a poorly thought out mess!2 -
3
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.5K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.5K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 430 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.8K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions