Age Discrimination?
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I can't believe this isn't an important issue to anyone but me????
eh . . . i guess i find you slightly confusing. on the one hand, if the doctors are so in the wrong then none of your peers need the encouragement or the example you think you present, right? on the other, if the doctors are right then you're an outlier and i don't really grok why you're bent out of shape with them not knowing it instantly just because you are you. either one would be valid in isolation, i think. but the combination of both is confusing to me.
65 is still far enough off for me that any opinions i might have on the subject would just be me flapping my gums about something i know nothing about yet, anyway. i've certainly met people who wouldn't take me seriously, but i don't really cross-analyze to find out what their problem is.0 -
Ernestine Sheppard. 80 year old female bodybuiker. Here's a link.
http://www.boredpanda.com/oldest-female-bodybuilder-grandma-80-year-old-ernestine-shepherd/
Discrimination of any kind is just wrong, to think someone can't do something because of thier age is total crap!
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I'm running more than I ever have and i'm 57. Don't worry what people say.. only thing i noticed detrimental for my age is injury recovery times, so I tend to be careful and work on my technique to avoid that. But hey older is wiser so that's no biggie right?. Also my vo2max nearly always measures about 52 from a normal slow run, which according to the net is better than most 20 year olds. I haven't pushed myself to the extreme to see what the max would be.
Sounds like to me many people use age as an excuse to slack off0 -
"The Barbell Prescription: Strength Training for Life After 40" by Sullivan and Baker
It strongly advocates for compound barbell movements be trained far later in life. Author is a doc and a Starting Strength coach.
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I completely agree with the OP that ageism is a problem and that anyone's actual health and fitness level should be taken into account for things like doctor visits... though there is a difference between being told and made aware of real changes and concerns in an aging body (good doctor) and being told you shouldn't do something even if at your fitness level it's safe and beneficial (ageism/bad doctor).
That being said yes you are an outlier because most 60+ individuals have not put in the work or achieved your results (*yet*) but I agree is that they most certainly can and shouldn't be discouraged. To be fair most young individuls haven't either. So to be honest you don't really have a right to be upset about a video aimed most likely at beginner 60+ individuals... because most seniors looking up a video on BB.com are going to need to start there, and as a clearly very dedicated and strong person you should be looking at more advanced videos. Now if you are frustrated specifically that more older individuals don't care enough to get healthy and/or aren't encouraged enough that is completely different but not really the makers of the videos fault...they are just making a video aimed at the most likely group of users (that would be like a body builder getting upset that a Jillian Michaels DVD wasn't hard enough, it just doesn't apply!).
Someone who has not exercised for their whole life or recently at your age, will in fact have weaker bones, so they would absolutely need to start light... that's not ageism, it is a fact that as we get older if we havent put in the work we become more prone to injury. This is true for overweight individuals or anyone new to working out, it's not discrimination when we suggest that new members on here take it easy, it's common sense... now if and when someone is told they should stop because of these things even though they are physically capable that is absolutely bulldung.
Also to the person who wrote "ageism yes descrimination no" I truly hope that was a joke, considering that is the definition of ageism... descrimination of a person based on their age (I am sure it was a joke but just in case!).0 -
By the time I got to my age I stopped caring about what "other people" were saying about most things. I'd listen, on the off chance there was something worth while there, but really just listening to my body and doing what I wanted and thought I needed to do. In reply to the doctor, or anyone else, suggesting we "back off": "That's not going to happen, what else do you have."
First Half marathon at 61 (2:17:10) and still going.2 -
So.......the moral of this story is just because we, or you, are getting older, doesn't mean we can't achieve a level of health through diet and exercise that compares to many people much younger than we are.
I just came across your thread and couldn't agree more. I used to click on those links about exercise recommendations for people over 40, and now I avoid them. I'm convinced that your exercise regimen should be based upon your ability and goals, not your age.
A few years ago in my early 40's, I got into boxing. Most of my family, friends, and doctor didn't think I was capable of doing this. But, my trainers/coaches treated me based upon my ability and goals. I experienced progress beyond my own expectations and started to box against 20 year old guys with more experience. I'm thankful that my gym paired up sparring partners based on ability and not age. As a result, I competed and won a sanctioned amateur boxing match at age 43.
For those of you who think we can't do it because of age, think again! If you still don't believe, step in the ring with me and I'll give you a free boxing "lesson."1 -
I know this is an old thread (2015), but it's a good one to revive
I think most of us who become active later, rather than having been continuously active since youth, have a pretty clear idea - or develop said idea rapidly - of what considerations and limitations apply to us. That may be even more true for people who've been vigorously active for decades: They know whether and how they've changed.
We've lived in these bodies for a while now! If anything, we may be over-cautious. To suggest that we need to be protected from ourselves, coddled and cautioned, counseled to wind down our activity is, to my mind, patronizing and insulting . . . to our intelligence even more than to our bodies.
Yes, we may need technical information that applies, about changes in tissues with aging and that sort of thing. But all beginners need tailored technical information to achieve their best results in the safest & most effective manner.
But if, as older beginners, we have normal mobility, strength, flexibility, etc., the basic approaches that apply to other non-impaired beginners of other ages also apply to us. Everyone needs to start low & slow, and build up from there as our individual capabilities allow, with the usual constraints of keeping good form, paying attention to how we feel, and getting adequate rest.
A bunch of people need to get over the idea that age is a disability. It isn't. Age may increase the odds that some of us have developed certain kinds of physical challenges, but age in and of itself is not a synonym for decrepitude.
To insist that OP is "an outlier" is, to my thinking, also insulting. Is she non-average, atypical, in her current level of effort and accomplishment? Sure. But "outlier" implies being a data point out there in isolation, far from other data points. Much as I respect @luluinca, she isn't this. There are bunches of athletes in their (our? ) 60s and beyond.
I rowed a double shell this morning with a 71-year-old woman, doing power intervals for around half of our 7k+ morning row. (I'm 61. Both of us could go longer, but the two newer - and younger, 26 & 50-something - women we rowed with were heading back to the dock after 5-6k in recreational single shells, so we went back, too, to help carry their boats.)
My 71 year old friend lifts heavy multiple times a week, rows 4 days a week with us in season, and goes to Pilates twice a week, not a "for seniors" class (but taught by her 71-year-old husband . . . I've done his class - it's Serious).
Also out on the water this morning in single racing shells were an 80-something-year-old guy (skinny, wiry math professor emeritus with washboard abs who also rides his recumbent trike regularly for dozens of miles per outing), and another woman in her late 60s or early 70s (don't know her as well, but she's also active in other ways with her same-age husband). Another 70-year old rows with us routinely, too, but she's out of town right now.
This is just a tiny sample - one random morning's rowers. My daytime spin classes are similar: Multiple folks in 50s through 70s, including a couple of active triathletes, one of whom also runs marathons. (Regular spin classes, BTW, not "for seniors" easy versions - heh).
So, @luluinca is doing great things, and is above average for sure, very disciplined and accomplished - I have great respect for her - but she's not an outlier. There are a bunch of nearby data points.
I sort of sympathize with doctors. They see a lot of people who are not average, either . . . but in the unhealthy/inactive direction. Who would you suppose is disproportionately patronizing doctors? So, no surprise that they develop bias. Ideally, they'd recognize more quickly when they're dealing with active people. I know various verbal tactics for helping them out with that.
Most of the things I hear 30-somethings say they expect about exercise as they get toward my age are, IMO and IME, silly. I detrain a little faster if inactive than i did when younger; I have to be a little more conscientious about recovery strategies; and it's more important to avoid injury (because of the slower recovery and faster detraining. I can still do what I once could, improve at what I do, push myself, etc.
BTW, when folks say things to me like "you don't look 61", I usually say something like "Yes I do: This is how 61 is supposed to look."7 -
Hi Ann, thanks for such a great response to my original.
Yes, if I'm an outlier, then so are you and countless other men and women we've both come across here. Age is just a factor to consider, it's not a determination of failure.
My trainer said something to me the other day that kind of stuck.....he said, "You're not like most women......of any age, but other women could be like you if they wanted."
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Just realized how many new comments there are on this somewhat old thread. I appreciate all of the comments, both the positive and the negative. I really think it's just so important that at any age, we don't try to limit ourselves by either our perceived disabilities or our age!
I keep getting stronger (slowly but surely) and at 67 now, I consider that a blessing. Does that mean I don't wake up in the morning with some aches and pains.......nope, it just means I work through them and keep going.
Thank you all for reviving this thread and honestly, I'm enjoying better health and fitness now than when I was in my 40's.2 -
awesome post. I am 66 and still going strong. I am glad I am not alone
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Hi Ann, thanks for such a great response to my original.
Yes, if I'm an outlier, then so are you and countless other men and women we've both come across here. Age is just a factor to consider, it's not a determination of failure.
My trainer said something to me the other day that kind of stuck.....he said, "You're not like most women......of any age, but other women could be like you if they wanted."
Your trainer sounds like a keeper!
BTW, I was still thinking about this thread after I posted.
Y'know what seems odd to me?
All these people worried that we'll hurt ourselves by working out too hard . . . despite the sadly huge numbers of people our age sitting in doctors' offices (let alone hospitals, assisted living, or graveyards) who disproportionately got there by not working out enough.2 -
Hi Ann, thanks for such a great response to my original.
Yes, if I'm an outlier, then so are you and countless other men and women we've both come across here. Age is just a factor to consider, it's not a determination of failure.
My trainer said something to me the other day that kind of stuck.....he said, "You're not like most women......of any age, but other women could be like you if they wanted."
Your trainer sounds like a keeper!
BTW, I was still thinking about this thread after I posted.
Y'know what seems odd to me?
All these people worried that we'll hurt ourselves by working out too hard . . . despite the sadly huge numbers of people our age sitting in doctors' offices (let alone hospitals, assisted living, or graveyards) who disproportionately got there by not working out enough.
So true Ann! The alternative to what we're doing isn't exactly my dream scenario.
I also recently had a conversation with Silver Sneakers based on a recommendation they made for exercise for seniors which was ridiculously under achieving. Things like standing from a seated position 20 times without holding on to anything or lifting 5 lb weights...........you get the idea.1 -
I think a lot has to do with your attitude. At 66, I just started at the gym last year, but love every minute of it. Yes I have aches and pains, I have back, shoulder, and knee issues. But I do what I can, when I can, and how I can...There are things I have to modify...OK...I feel so much better than I have is 30 years...But I understand what limitations I have then adapt and overcome...1
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Im a female in my fifties who discovered the gym 2 years ago. Im the fittest ive been in 40 years, since i was a state swimmer. I love doing both the cardio and weights. My knees dont like the running so much even though scans say there is nothing wrong with them. Grr. Love running. I did my first triathlon in march. Kept up with the youngies in the swim and bike. But the run let me down. Im the slowest runner in history lol. But i finished and my family and pt were so proud of me as was i. Good on you for doing what your doing. Now where are the anti inflamatories. Lol Ran 3km tonight after a pt session.1
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Thanks again everyone.
Last year I had a pretty debilitating frozen shoulder and 8 weeks of PT for it. Since I couldn't lift weights for awhile I began a running program and worked up to 5 miles 2 days a week and shorter distances on other days. At the end of training for a 10K I injured my knee but luckily my shoulder was healed and so since I couldn't run for awhile I started back up with the weights.
Now I do both and 2 hours on the StairMaster every week in 30 minute sessions.
As a warmup now at the gym I'm doing both shoulder rehab (5 to 10 minutes) and a hip stretching routine (about 10 minutes) just to keep things loose and limber and pain free.
I'm not immune to the aging process I just prefer to work at keeping my body in the best shape I can for any age.
Wishing all of you great success as you age! Use your determination to get you through the rough patches and don't make excuses for skipping a workout, a run, a swim, or a walk. Get something done and I promise you'll wake up the next morning feeling a little bit better.3 -
My husband's doctor noted at his recent 60-year physical that he'd gained 18 lbs and commented "Well, you're getting older" and he moved on to the next topic. Due to good genetics, my husband has always been naturally muscular and fit, so this was really a drastic weight gain for him. I think too many health care professionals choose to not address weight/fitness and I'm not really sure why. This isn't about weight-lifting, but it does smack of age discrimination in this case.1
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My trainer said something to me the other day that kind of stuck.....he said, "You're not like most women......of any age, but other women could be like you if they wanted."
Just ran across this thread - great topic. And for me , the quote above captures it perfectly.
For example, in next months' race at Lake Placid, I will be in the men's 60-64 age group. So I took a look at the bib list and here's what I found: There are 100& athletes in the Mens 55-59 age group, 68 in the M60-64 age group, 18 in M65-69, and 8 in the M70-74 age group and 1 in the M75-79 group. Womens' participant numbers would be somewhat similar.
This is a race that will take most people 6-8hrs to complete...... so not what I'd call "backing off" for a 70 year old. Last year I met three different men in their 80's out on the run course at 70.3 mile distance races. These guys are my heroes!
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I have some observations and opinions.
I didn't start working out until my late 50's when I hired a trainer, started lifting and lost 60lbs. During that time with his encouragement I also started running a bit. I have now run 20 half marathons, was invited with a qualifying time twice to run in the US Invitational HM, I still work out at the gym regularly, either with my trainer or on my own. I am in the 'Running Challenge' group here on MFP and I am pretty sure I am the oldest female runner in the group although @luluinca used to be in the group too I know there are older women runners out there, I see them at races and on other websites but I guess they don't get too involved here. It seems like most are in their 30's or 40's.
I am fortunate to have doctors who celebrate my activity and healthiness. My orthopedist and rheumatologist were excited when I started to lose weight and run. They basically told me if you don't move, you won't be able to and helped me plan how to increase my mileage over time without injuring myself. My regular doctor, a woman my same age, loves that I am so active and healthy and asks me for advice on things she can do to incorporate more in her life, given the crazy hours and schedule she works.
I don't see many women at my gym other than a few on the elliptical or treadmills and none my age or older. I do think that women in general are afraid of the gym, afraid of the machines and weights, afraid of being embarrassed and just generally afraid they will do something wrong. I also think women (of all ages) have that misconception that they are going to end up with huge bulging muscles if they lift weights and especially heavy weights and don't understand that what they will get are beautiful strong, toned arms, shoulders, back, etc..
I also have many female friends my age who will tell me out right - Oh I could never do what you do, I am not strong enough, I don't have time or I don't like to sweat or.... I always think to myself that surely they must realize I didn't just go in and poof got to this point. These rationalizations just don't make sense to me if I put it in the context that I can sit on the couch, run errands, cook, etc.. and die or be disabled before I have grand kids or before I get to really enjoy them or even before I can retire with the alternative that I can put in some effort and be healthier, stronger and feel better. I may still die earlier than I want but it won't be because I couldn't find the time, couldn't get over that I will sweat and never took any action to take care of myself.
We all should be encouraged to at least try activities (at all ages) that push our boundaries and comfort zones. Walking with 5lb weights might be a good place for anyone to start but should not be considered a limit for anyone either.
Also just another participation note similar to @Djproulx for the SF Marathon and HMs runners age 60+ :
Marathon - 52 female, 196 male
1st HM - 118 female, 118 male
2nd HM - 69 female, 83 male
There are older athletes out there and some are participating in organized events so I would say that we are definitely not outliers.
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