Plant based diet

mollybutterfly
mollybutterfly Posts: 1 Member
edited November 20 in Food and Nutrition
I need help transition to A plant based diet. All the books i have dont show how many grams protein or calories. I neef to loose weight.
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Replies

  • MichelleSilverleaf
    MichelleSilverleaf Posts: 2,027 Member
    The calories you need to lose weight can be given to you by the site when you put in all your stats. Sticking to those numbers that you're given is a good starting place but you can make adjustments later.
  • brandnew222
    brandnew222 Posts: 42 Member
    Calories: the amount you need to lose, gain or maintain your weight. It doesn't matter if you eat plant based or not
    Protein: MFP website will give you a 50C - 30F - 20P by default, I believe it's ok. 20% protein is more than enough, I think around 1g per KG of bodyweight is a good level.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    Going plant-based doesn't change your needs for protein and calories. If you don't already have goals, try entering your stats into MFP -- that will generate a protein and calorie goal for you.
  • Old_Cat_Lady
    Old_Cat_Lady Posts: 1,193 Member
    I lost weight eating grilled chicken breast made at home with a side of veggies.
  • OliveGirl128
    OliveGirl128 Posts: 801 Member
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    Going plant-based doesn't change your needs for protein and calories. If you don't already have goals, try entering your stats into MFP -- that will generate a protein and calorie goal for you.

    This.
  • OliveGirl128
    OliveGirl128 Posts: 801 Member
    edited August 2017
    megpie41 wrote: »
    AJ_G wrote: »
    megpie41 wrote: »
    There is a tv show on the Z Living Network called Big Fat Truth. It's pretty interesting because they put "unhealthy" people on a plant based diet for 30 days and you get to see the transformation.

    They have plant based recipes on their website.
    https://www.zliving.com/food/recipes

    I've never seen the show, but let me guess, they put unhealthy people on a plant based diet that just so happens to also put them in a calorie deficit, and they also have them throw in some exercise, and by the end they end up losing weight and having better health markers across the board? Is that about right?

    To sum it up, yes you are right...they end up losing weight and end up with healthy markers across the board. Many of them start with high blood pressure, high LDL cholesterol, pre-diabetic etc, and by 10 days their levels start going down and by 30 days most are within healthy range. The purpose of the show is to transform their unhealthy lifestyle into something they can maintain long term. It's not simply about losing weight...it's about becoming healthy from a nutrition standpoint. If you can tell me how this is a problem or unhealthy I'd love to hear it.

    I understand that a plant based diet is not the only way to achieve this, but it is one way that works, so what is the problem?

    But many times, just losing the extra weight will dramatically improve health markers, regardless of what foods the person ate.

    I'm a pretty good example of this. I improved all my health markers, including normalizing a prediabetic glucose number-making me the only one in my family who's reversed the progression of prediabetes, while still continuing to eat all sorts of things that you'd label 'unhealthy' (fast food several times a week, all sorts of 'processed' diet foods, added sugar/HFCS foods etc etc). Losing the extra 50lbs I was carrying around was what made me healthy again, not because I was eating some sort of 'healthy' diet.

    And doing it this way made it sustainable for me, because it met me where I was at. If I had tried to make drastic changes to what kinds of foods I ate during my weight loss phase, I know without a doubt that I would have failed and would most likely be a type 2 diabetic right now, like so many of my overweight/obese family members were/are. Instead I was able to easily lose the extra weight and then transition into maintenance, where I've now been for years.

    Since my weight loss phase I've played around quite a bit with how I eat, and today I eat a bit differently than how I did when I started my weight loss phase. But, I wouldn't be where I am today, if I hadn't started where I did. And while I now follow the DASH protocol, I still include all the foods I enjoy eating-including many of the things I ate during my weight loss phase. And I have years of hard data showing that I continue to be in excellent health while doing so :)

    eta: who knows, maybe I'm a freak of nature or something. Considering that I'm one of the very few people who are actually maintaining weight loss long term it certainly feels like it sometime :p
  • megpie41
    megpie41 Posts: 164 Member
    edited August 2017
    AJ_G wrote: »
    megpie41 wrote: »
    AJ_G wrote: »
    megpie41 wrote: »
    There is a tv show on the Z Living Network called Big Fat Truth. It's pretty interesting because they put "unhealthy" people on a plant based diet for 30 days and you get to see the transformation.

    They have plant based recipes on their website.
    https://www.zliving.com/food/recipes

    I've never seen the show, but let me guess, they put unhealthy people on a plant based diet that just so happens to also put them in a calorie deficit, and they also have them throw in some exercise, and by the end they end up losing weight and having better health markers across the board? Is that about right?

    To sum it up, yes you are right...they end up losing weight and end up with healthy markers across the board. Many of them start with high blood pressure, high LDL cholesterol, pre-diabetic etc, and by 10 days their levels start going down and by 30 days most are within healthy range. The purpose of the show is to transform their unhealthy lifestyle into something they can maintain long term. It's not simply about losing weight...it's about becoming healthy from a nutrition standpoint. If you can tell me how this is a problem or unhealthy I'd love to hear it.

    I understand that a plant based diet is not the only way to achieve this, but it is one way that works, so what is the problem?

    My only problem is that it's extremely misleading. It's almost completely the weight loss and exercise that is making all their health markers better and they don't even acknowledge that, they give all the credit to the plant based diet. That's like doing a study where you take people who smoke a pack a day, and have them completely stop smoking for 6 months and also read a book for an hour a day and at the end saying that an hour of reading a day increases respiration and makes you healthier. See my point?

    I do see your point. I do agree that general weight loss will improve those levels. I also personally believe that what you eat has an effect on those levels/health as well.

    I myself am not on a strict plant based diet. I try to keep a majority of my plate vegetables, fruit, healthy grains etc, but I also like chicken, pork and fish (in not much of a red meat eater, but I do like a good burger sometimes).

    Like I said, plant based is not the only way to achieve 'health' but it certainly will work. I'm not sure that eating cico of cheeseburgers/fries paired with exercise will lead to healthy levels (just using that as an extreme example...I realize not everyone just eats one food).

    So I do believe there is truth to what your say, but I also think there is merit to the plant based diet for general health...it's certainly not going to hurt anything. So if people believe that plant based will get them to the finish line, I support them fully.
  • jhildebrandt73
    jhildebrandt73 Posts: 290 Member
    If you are set on eating a plant based diet, there are several groups in MFP that you can join for recipes, advice and support. I find them very informative and helpful. Either way, good job on wanting to improve your health.
  • OliveGirl128
    OliveGirl128 Posts: 801 Member
    edited August 2017
    megpie41 wrote: »
    AJ_G wrote: »
    megpie41 wrote: »
    AJ_G wrote: »
    megpie41 wrote: »
    There is a tv show on the Z Living Network called Big Fat Truth. It's pretty interesting because they put "unhealthy" people on a plant based diet for 30 days and you get to see the transformation.

    They have plant based recipes on their website.
    https://www.zliving.com/food/recipes

    I've never seen the show, but let me guess, they put unhealthy people on a plant based diet that just so happens to also put them in a calorie deficit, and they also have them throw in some exercise, and by the end they end up losing weight and having better health markers across the board? Is that about right?

    To sum it up, yes you are right...they end up losing weight and end up with healthy markers across the board. Many of them start with high blood pressure, high LDL cholesterol, pre-diabetic etc, and by 10 days their levels start going down and by 30 days most are within healthy range. The purpose of the show is to transform their unhealthy lifestyle into something they can maintain long term. It's not simply about losing weight...it's about becoming healthy from a nutrition standpoint. If you can tell me how this is a problem or unhealthy I'd love to hear it.

    I understand that a plant based diet is not the only way to achieve this, but it is one way that works, so what is the problem?

    My only problem is that it's extremely misleading. It's almost completely the weight loss and exercise that is making all their health markers better and they don't even acknowledge that, they give all the credit to the plant based diet. That's like doing a study where you take people who smoke a pack a day, and have them completely stop smoking for 6 months and also read a book for an hour a day and at the end saying that an hour of reading a day increases respiration and makes you healthier. See my point?

    I do see your point. I do agree that general weight loss will improve those levels. I also personally believe that what you eat has an effect on those levels/health as well.

    I myself am not on a strict plant based diet. I try to keep a majority of my plate vegetables, fruit, healthy grains etc, but I also like chicken, pork and fish (in not much of a red meat eater, but I do like a good burger sometimes).

    Like I said, plant based is not the only way to achieve 'health' but it certainly will work. I'm not sure that eating cico of cheeseburgers/fries paired with exercise will lead to healthy levels (just using that as an extreme example...I realize not everyone just eats one food).

    So I do believe there is truth to what your say, but I also think there is merit to the plant based diet for general health...it's certainly not going to hurt anything. So if people believe that plant based will get them to the finish line, I support them fully.

    Ever hear of the 'Twinkie Guy'? If not you may find this an interesting read ;)
    http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/

    For 10 weeks, Mark Haub, a professor of human nutrition at Kansas State University, ate one of these sugary cakelets every three hours, instead of meals. To add variety in his steady stream of Hostess and Little Debbie snacks, Haub munched on Doritos chips, sugary cereals and Oreos, too.

    His premise: That in weight loss, pure calorie counting is what matters most -- not the nutritional value of the food.....

    His body mass index went from 28.8, considered overweight, to 24.9, which is normal. He now weighs 174 pounds.

    But you might expect other indicators of health would have suffered. Not so.

    Haub's "bad" cholesterol, or LDL, dropped 20 percent and his "good" cholesterol, or HDL, increased by 20 percent. He reduced the level of triglycerides, which are a form of fat, by 39 percent.
  • hannamarie0098
    hannamarie0098 Posts: 85 Member
    AJ_G wrote: »
    hannamarie0098 wrote: »
    There are loads of vegan and plant based groups on Facebook where you will be able to get advice on products and recipes. Also have a look at forks over knives.

    Don't have a look at forks over knives...it's straight vegan propaganda and there is very little truth to anything being spewed in that poor excuse for a "documentary"

    I meant the website, for plant based recipe ideas.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    megpie41 wrote: »
    AJ_G wrote: »
    megpie41 wrote: »
    There is a tv show on the Z Living Network called Big Fat Truth. It's pretty interesting because they put "unhealthy" people on a plant based diet for 30 days and you get to see the transformation.

    They have plant based recipes on their website.
    https://www.zliving.com/food/recipes

    I've never seen the show, but let me guess, they put unhealthy people on a plant based diet that just so happens to also put them in a calorie deficit, and they also have them throw in some exercise, and by the end they end up losing weight and having better health markers across the board? Is that about right?

    To sum it up, yes you are right...they end up losing weight and end up with healthy markers across the board. Many of them start with high blood pressure, high LDL cholesterol, pre-diabetic etc, and by 10 days their levels start going down and by 30 days most are within healthy range. The purpose of the show is to transform their unhealthy lifestyle into something they can maintain long term. It's not simply about losing weight...it's about becoming healthy from a nutrition standpoint. If you can tell me how this is a problem or unhealthy I'd love to hear it.

    I understand that a plant based diet is not the only way to achieve this, but it is one way that works, so what is the problem?

    Because understanding the cause is important. A plant-based diet will not cause it necessarily, as it's possible to eat over maintenance or not to have a deficit with a plant-based diet, and it's also possible to have a not so great diet that is "plant-based" (depending on what that means and if you bother making sure nutritional needs are met). And, similarly, there are lots of other things that work, so promoting the idea that it's being plant-based that causes it (as some of the recent "documentaries" do) isn't a good idea.

    If someone wants to be 100% plant-based, I am totally supportive and think plant-based diets can be good ones, although I'd recommend watching protein and supplementing B12 and Omega-3 (specifically DHA), which one can do with algae-based pills.
  • Iamnotasenior
    Iamnotasenior Posts: 235 Member
    While it is true that a vegan or vegetarian diet alone will not automatically result in weight loss. I can tell you, for myself and for many other vegetarians I meet, there are just as many overweight and obese vegetarians out there as thin ones. However, there are a lot of research studies that show that meatless diets do result in things like healthier guts (because they are generally higher in plant fiber), gentler menopause symptoms and even lower levels of stress. Protein is definitely needed by your body, and in particular, B vitamins, like B-12, are required to be supplemented in vegans because we get them from animal products in our diet. Most meat eaters and Western diets in general "overdose" on protein which, over time, can lead to kidney issues and leaching of calcium from your bones which leads to osteoporosis. For example, in Japan, meat consumption and milk consumption are very low, yet, so are the rates of osteoporosis and there is no word in the Japanese language for "hot flash" because menopause symptoms among those who eat a traditional Japanese diet are mostly insignificant. So, yes, there are health benefits to a meat-free or low-meat diet.

    That said, put your stats into My Fitness Pal and choose your rate of weight loss and it will tell you how many grams of protein to eat each day. Plant-based proteins include Soy-based products like tofu, tempah and there are a lot of soy-based burgers, hot dogs, bacon, chicken nuggets, etc. on the market that can be used as substitutes for meat in your normal recipes. Other protein sources include cheese (and soy cheese), soy or almond milk, beans, nuts and seeds, nut butters (like peanut butter), yogurt and many breads (like Ezekial breads) contain considerable amounts of protein. I am a pescetarian, meaining that I eat no meat, but do occasionally eat fish and seafood. There are many, many different variations on meat-free or low meat diets so you just have to find what works best for you. I've been doing it for close to 20 years now, so if you'd like to add me and see my food diary, please do.
  • SecularVegan
    SecularVegan Posts: 16 Member
    That's awesome! I hope you stick with it. It's really life changing!
    Here are a few videos I suggest watching in regards to your questions. They're very helpful. :)

    https://youtu.be/2CKxp1PMd48

    https://youtu.be/LGArj9Do0xc

    https://youtu.be/fWTMpYjaI5E

    Good luck! You can do it! <3
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    Iamnotasenior wrote: »
    However, there are a lot of research studies that show that meatless diets do result in things like healthier guts (because they are generally higher in plant fiber), gentler menopause symptoms and even lower levels of stress.

    I suspect all those things are associated with OTHER differences, on average, and not being meat free or not. For example, you note "eating more plant fiber," but of course some meat eaters eat more plant fiber than some vegetarians, and it is definitely possible to have a diet that includes meat, eggs, and dairy, and also eat lots of vegetables. Too few people eat adequate vegetables, IMO, and I'd address that by encouraging vegetable eating, not blaming meat.
  • AJ_G
    AJ_G Posts: 4,158 Member
    megpie41 wrote: »
    AJ_G wrote: »
    megpie41 wrote: »
    AJ_G wrote: »
    megpie41 wrote: »
    There is a tv show on the Z Living Network called Big Fat Truth. It's pretty interesting because they put "unhealthy" people on a plant based diet for 30 days and you get to see the transformation.

    They have plant based recipes on their website.
    https://www.zliving.com/food/recipes

    I've never seen the show, but let me guess, they put unhealthy people on a plant based diet that just so happens to also put them in a calorie deficit, and they also have them throw in some exercise, and by the end they end up losing weight and having better health markers across the board? Is that about right?

    To sum it up, yes you are right...they end up losing weight and end up with healthy markers across the board. Many of them start with high blood pressure, high LDL cholesterol, pre-diabetic etc, and by 10 days their levels start going down and by 30 days most are within healthy range. The purpose of the show is to transform their unhealthy lifestyle into something they can maintain long term. It's not simply about losing weight...it's about becoming healthy from a nutrition standpoint. If you can tell me how this is a problem or unhealthy I'd love to hear it.

    I understand that a plant based diet is not the only way to achieve this, but it is one way that works, so what is the problem?

    My only problem is that it's extremely misleading. It's almost completely the weight loss and exercise that is making all their health markers better and they don't even acknowledge that, they give all the credit to the plant based diet. That's like doing a study where you take people who smoke a pack a day, and have them completely stop smoking for 6 months and also read a book for an hour a day and at the end saying that an hour of reading a day increases respiration and makes you healthier. See my point?

    Like I said, plant based is not the only way to achieve 'health' but it certainly will work. I'm not sure that eating cico of cheeseburgers/fries paired with exercise will lead to healthy levels (just using that as an extreme example...I realize not everyone just eats one food).

    So I do believe there is truth to what your say, but I also think there is merit to the plant based diet for general health...it's certainly not going to hurt anything. So if people believe that plant based will get them to the finish line, I support them fully.

    Why does it have to be one extreme or the other? Why does it have to be plant based diet or cheeseburgers and fries? There is middle ground, and that's where it's ideal to be. Animal products are not inherently bad, it's just that the vast majority of the population consumes animal products, so when people make comparison studies, they compare subjects who eat a plant based diet(which tend to be people that are conscious about what they're eating) to the general population, which consists mostly of people who don't care at all what they're eating. That's not a fair or intellectually honest comparison to make, and those who make it do it to make a point, not to be transparent. I've never seen a good comparison of plant based dieters to dieters who consume animal products, but also consume adequate fiber and micronutrients as well.
  • megpie41
    megpie41 Posts: 164 Member
    AJ_G wrote: »
    megpie41 wrote: »
    AJ_G wrote: »
    megpie41 wrote: »
    AJ_G wrote: »
    megpie41 wrote: »
    There is a tv show on the Z Living Network called Big Fat Truth. It's pretty interesting because they put "unhealthy" people on a plant based diet for 30 days and you get to see the transformation.

    They have plant based recipes on their website.
    https://www.zliving.com/food/recipes

    I've never seen the show, but let me guess, they put unhealthy people on a plant based diet that just so happens to also put them in a calorie deficit, and they also have them throw in some exercise, and by the end they end up losing weight and having better health markers across the board? Is that about right?

    To sum it up, yes you are right...they end up losing weight and end up with healthy markers across the board. Many of them start with high blood pressure, high LDL cholesterol, pre-diabetic etc, and by 10 days their levels start going down and by 30 days most are within healthy range. The purpose of the show is to transform their unhealthy lifestyle into something they can maintain long term. It's not simply about losing weight...it's about becoming healthy from a nutrition standpoint. If you can tell me how this is a problem or unhealthy I'd love to hear it.

    I understand that a plant based diet is not the only way to achieve this, but it is one way that works, so what is the problem?

    My only problem is that it's extremely misleading. It's almost completely the weight loss and exercise that is making all their health markers better and they don't even acknowledge that, they give all the credit to the plant based diet. That's like doing a study where you take people who smoke a pack a day, and have them completely stop smoking for 6 months and also read a book for an hour a day and at the end saying that an hour of reading a day increases respiration and makes you healthier. See my point?

    Like I said, plant based is not the only way to achieve 'health' but it certainly will work. I'm not sure that eating cico of cheeseburgers/fries paired with exercise will lead to healthy levels (just using that as an extreme example...I realize not everyone just eats one food).

    So I do believe there is truth to what your say, but I also think there is merit to the plant based diet for general health...it's certainly not going to hurt anything. So if people believe that plant based will get them to the finish line, I support them fully.

    Why does it have to be one extreme or the other? Why does it have to be plant based diet or cheeseburgers and fries? There is middle ground, and that's where it's ideal to be. Animal products are not inherently bad, it's just that the vast majority of the population consumes animal products, so when people make comparison studies, they compare subjects who eat a plant based diet(which tend to be people that are conscious about what they're eating) to the general population, which consists mostly of people who don't care at all what they're eating. That's not a fair or intellectually honest comparison to make, and those who make it do it to make a point, not to be transparent. I've never seen a good comparison of plant based dieters to dieters who consume animal products, but also consume adequate fiber and micronutrients as well.

    The reason I mentioned the extreme is because many people here state that the cico is simply based on eating fewer calories that expended regardless of what it is. For argument sake I'll change my 'cheeseburgers' to the 'typical western diet' in order to leave room for variety.

    On the other hand, what is wrong with the 'extreme' of eating strictly plant based? Why is this so bad? Everything I've read said plant based is extremely healthy. By saying plant based is healthy does not mean non-plant based is not healthy. It's simply one way of achieving ones goal. Can it be achieved eating meat? I'm sure it can. "There is more than one way to skin a cat. "
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    No one was saying it doesn't matter what you eat in general. OP said he/she was transitioning to plant based and asked how many calories and what macros he/she should eat to lose weight. People were explaining that being on a plant-based diet does not make a difference to how many calories you need to lose weight.

    A plant-based diet can be healthful, but (as it often just means does not eat animal products and says nothing about what the person does eat), it is not necessarily an "extremely healthy" diet.

    Sure, it can be, and as I said upthread I support it. But so much bad, misleading, or just false propaganda lately seems dedicated to the idea that ONLY 100% plant-based is healthy.
  • megpie41
    megpie41 Posts: 164 Member
    AJ_G wrote: »
    megpie41 wrote: »
    AJ_G wrote: »
    megpie41 wrote: »
    AJ_G wrote: »
    megpie41 wrote: »
    AJ_G wrote: »
    megpie41 wrote: »
    There is a tv show on the Z Living Network called Big Fat Truth. It's pretty interesting because they put "unhealthy" people on a plant based diet for 30 days and you get to see the transformation.

    They have plant based recipes on their website.
    https://www.zliving.com/food/recipes

    I've never seen the show, but let me guess, they put unhealthy people on a plant based diet that just so happens to also put them in a calorie deficit, and they also have them throw in some exercise, and by the end they end up losing weight and having better health markers across the board? Is that about right?

    To sum it up, yes you are right...they end up losing weight and end up with healthy markers across the board. Many of them start with high blood pressure, high LDL cholesterol, pre-diabetic etc, and by 10 days their levels start going down and by 30 days most are within healthy range. The purpose of the show is to transform their unhealthy lifestyle into something they can maintain long term. It's not simply about losing weight...it's about becoming healthy from a nutrition standpoint. If you can tell me how this is a problem or unhealthy I'd love to hear it.

    I understand that a plant based diet is not the only way to achieve this, but it is one way that works, so what is the problem?

    My only problem is that it's extremely misleading. It's almost completely the weight loss and exercise that is making all their health markers better and they don't even acknowledge that, they give all the credit to the plant based diet. That's like doing a study where you take people who smoke a pack a day, and have them completely stop smoking for 6 months and also read a book for an hour a day and at the end saying that an hour of reading a day increases respiration and makes you healthier. See my point?

    Like I said, plant based is not the only way to achieve 'health' but it certainly will work. I'm not sure that eating cico of cheeseburgers/fries paired with exercise will lead to healthy levels (just using that as an extreme example...I realize not everyone just eats one food).

    So I do believe there is truth to what your say, but I also think there is merit to the plant based diet for general health...it's certainly not going to hurt anything. So if people believe that plant based will get them to the finish line, I support them fully.

    Why does it have to be one extreme or the other? Why does it have to be plant based diet or cheeseburgers and fries? There is middle ground, and that's where it's ideal to be. Animal products are not inherently bad, it's just that the vast majority of the population consumes animal products, so when people make comparison studies, they compare subjects who eat a plant based diet(which tend to be people that are conscious about what they're eating) to the general population, which consists mostly of people who don't care at all what they're eating. That's not a fair or intellectually honest comparison to make, and those who make it do it to make a point, not to be transparent. I've never seen a good comparison of plant based dieters to dieters who consume animal products, but also consume adequate fiber and micronutrients as well.

    The reason I mentioned the extreme is because many people here state that the cico is simply based on eating fewer calories that expended regardless of what it is. For argument sake I'll change my 'cheeseburgers' to the 'typical western diet' in order to leave room for variety.

    On the other hand, what is wrong with the 'extreme' of eating strictly plant based? Why is this so bad? Everything I've read said plant based is extremely healthy. By saying plant based is healthy does not mean non-plant based is not healthy. It's simply one way of achieving ones goal. Can it be achieved eating meat? I'm sure it can. "There is more than one way to skin a cat. "

    As far as CICO goes, it is an undeniable fact that (water weight fluctuations aside) if you consume more calories than you burn you will gain weight. If you consume fewer calories than you burn, you will lose weight. That is according to the laws of physics and biology. You cannot outrun that. That is separate from health, but in general, the vast vast vast majority of health problems having to do with nutrition stem from being overweight, not from not eating enough veggies.

    To answer your question of "what is wrong with the 'extreme' of eating strictly plant based?

    1. Often times not enough protein consumption, and not enough fat consumption with plant based diets.
    2. The protein sources you do consume are less complete(fewer essential amino acids), and they tend to be less bioavailable for your body to breakdown and use.
    3. You're unnecessarily restricting something out of your diet that is not harmful to you or even bad for you in moderate amounts.
    4. Restrictive diets are more prone to disorders that include binge eating and orthorexia nervosa, when you inevitably eat something that does not fall within the confines of your diet.

    I agree that if you eat less calories than you burn you will lose weight. Depending on what you consume with those calories will determine if you are healthy or not.

    You say the vast majority of health issues rise from being over weight and not from not eating enough veggies? That may be true, but what caused them to be over weight in the first place? For a lot (not all) of people, they probably became over weight from eating the wrong foods and wrong amount of food from the beginning. Yes you can gain weight from eating too many veggies, but generally speaking those who eat veggie based diets from the beginning (or whole food diets for example) don't have weight problems to start with (yes there are obviously exceptions to this statement).

    There are plenty of non-meat sources of protein and fat out there. If one is educated in plant based nutrution, protein and fat consumption should not be an issue. Just ask all the vegetarians out there...they seem to be doing just fine.

    Some people restrict certain safe, healthy foods for personal reasons. You canot assume they are not eating meat because they think it is unhealthy.
  • AJ_G
    AJ_G Posts: 4,158 Member
    edited August 2017
    megpie41 wrote: »
    AJ_G wrote: »
    megpie41 wrote: »
    AJ_G wrote: »
    megpie41 wrote: »
    AJ_G wrote: »
    megpie41 wrote: »
    AJ_G wrote: »
    megpie41 wrote: »
    There is a tv show on the Z Living Network called Big Fat Truth. It's pretty interesting because they put "unhealthy" people on a plant based diet for 30 days and you get to see the transformation.

    They have plant based recipes on their website.
    https://www.zliving.com/food/recipes

    I've never seen the show, but let me guess, they put unhealthy people on a plant based diet that just so happens to also put them in a calorie deficit, and they also have them throw in some exercise, and by the end they end up losing weight and having better health markers across the board? Is that about right?

    To sum it up, yes you are right...they end up losing weight and end up with healthy markers across the board. Many of them start with high blood pressure, high LDL cholesterol, pre-diabetic etc, and by 10 days their levels start going down and by 30 days most are within healthy range. The purpose of the show is to transform their unhealthy lifestyle into something they can maintain long term. It's not simply about losing weight...it's about becoming healthy from a nutrition standpoint. If you can tell me how this is a problem or unhealthy I'd love to hear it.

    I understand that a plant based diet is not the only way to achieve this, but it is one way that works, so what is the problem?

    My only problem is that it's extremely misleading. It's almost completely the weight loss and exercise that is making all their health markers better and they don't even acknowledge that, they give all the credit to the plant based diet. That's like doing a study where you take people who smoke a pack a day, and have them completely stop smoking for 6 months and also read a book for an hour a day and at the end saying that an hour of reading a day increases respiration and makes you healthier. See my point?

    Like I said, plant based is not the only way to achieve 'health' but it certainly will work. I'm not sure that eating cico of cheeseburgers/fries paired with exercise will lead to healthy levels (just using that as an extreme example...I realize not everyone just eats one food).

    So I do believe there is truth to what your say, but I also think there is merit to the plant based diet for general health...it's certainly not going to hurt anything. So if people believe that plant based will get them to the finish line, I support them fully.

    Why does it have to be one extreme or the other? Why does it have to be plant based diet or cheeseburgers and fries? There is middle ground, and that's where it's ideal to be. Animal products are not inherently bad, it's just that the vast majority of the population consumes animal products, so when people make comparison studies, they compare subjects who eat a plant based diet(which tend to be people that are conscious about what they're eating) to the general population, which consists mostly of people who don't care at all what they're eating. That's not a fair or intellectually honest comparison to make, and those who make it do it to make a point, not to be transparent. I've never seen a good comparison of plant based dieters to dieters who consume animal products, but also consume adequate fiber and micronutrients as well.

    The reason I mentioned the extreme is because many people here state that the cico is simply based on eating fewer calories that expended regardless of what it is. For argument sake I'll change my 'cheeseburgers' to the 'typical western diet' in order to leave room for variety.

    On the other hand, what is wrong with the 'extreme' of eating strictly plant based? Why is this so bad? Everything I've read said plant based is extremely healthy. By saying plant based is healthy does not mean non-plant based is not healthy. It's simply one way of achieving ones goal. Can it be achieved eating meat? I'm sure it can. "There is more than one way to skin a cat. "

    As far as CICO goes, it is an undeniable fact that (water weight fluctuations aside) if you consume more calories than you burn you will gain weight. If you consume fewer calories than you burn, you will lose weight. That is according to the laws of physics and biology. You cannot outrun that. That is separate from health, but in general, the vast vast vast majority of health problems having to do with nutrition stem from being overweight, not from not eating enough veggies.

    To answer your question of "what is wrong with the 'extreme' of eating strictly plant based?

    1. Often times not enough protein consumption, and not enough fat consumption with plant based diets.
    2. The protein sources you do consume are less complete(fewer essential amino acids), and they tend to be less bioavailable for your body to breakdown and use.
    3. You're unnecessarily restricting something out of your diet that is not harmful to you or even bad for you in moderate amounts.
    4. Restrictive diets are more prone to disorders that include binge eating and orthorexia nervosa, when you inevitably eat something that does not fall within the confines of your diet.

    You say the vast majority of health issues rise from being over weight and not from not eating enough veggies? That may be true, but what caused them to be over weight in the first place?

    Eating more calories than they burn...

    There are a lot of factors that contribute to this, low activity levels, eating schedule, etc, but it all comes back to calorie balance.

    For a lot (not all) of people, they probably became over weight from eating the wrong foods and wrong amount of food from the beginning.


    They became overweight because they ate too many calories, and were not active enough. Stop blaming individual foods for a broader problem...
    Yes you can gain weight from eating too many veggies, but generally speaking those who eat veggie based diets from the beginning


    There are plenty of vegetarians that over consume calories. Most really calorie dense foods that people tend to over consume and abuse are not meat. Whole foods are a little different, but even fruits can be pretty calorie dense, and people tend to think "oh fruits are healthy, I can eat as much as I want", but they're just full of sugar for the most part.

    There are plenty of non-meat sources of protein and fat out there.

    I didn't disagree with that point, I simply said vegetarians tend to consume less fat, which is true. As for protein, aside from meat, it's actually pretty difficult to find anything close to isolated sources of protein out there. Most protein in a vegetarian diet comes hand in hand with a good deal of carbohydrates, and as I mentioned before, protein from non animal sources have a less complete amino acid profile than animal sources of protein, so you may be getting close to the same total protein intake, but it's a lower quality intake of protein due to the amino acid profile you're consuming.

    Some people restrict certain safe, healthy foods for personal reasons. You canot assume they are not eating meat because they think it is unhealthy.


    True, and I have no problem with that, if one's reasons for avoiding animal sources of food come from a moral place, that is fine, do you. There just seem to be a lot of people who restrict animal sources of food because they believe them to be unhealthy in any context or in any amount, and that is not the case, that is all I'm saying.
  • tvs2211
    tvs2211 Posts: 44 Member
    AJ_G wrote: »

    There just seem to be a lot of people who restrict animal sources of food because they believe them to be unhealthy in any context or in any amount, and that is not the case, that is all I'm saying.

    You forgot to say in my opinion.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    He's talking about a factual issue: are animal products, even in small amounts, always harmful to health.

    You can debate the evidence, but it's not simply a matter of opinion.
  • AJ_G
    AJ_G Posts: 4,158 Member
    tvs2211 wrote: »
    AJ_G wrote: »

    There just seem to be a lot of people who restrict animal sources of food because they believe them to be unhealthy in any context or in any amount, and that is not the case, that is all I'm saying.

    You forgot to say in my opinion.

    As lemurcat said, it wasn't an opinion, it's factual. To say that animal products are always unhealthy in any context and in any amount is categorically false.
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