Vegans. Would you give your cat a can of tuna fish?
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abetterme9366 wrote: »So let me get this straight, do cats need meat?
No don't feed cats meat, it's murder
Wait a minute there. Unlike dogs and other omnivores, cats are true (so-called “obligate”) carnivores: They meet their nutritional needs by consuming other animals and have a higher protein requirement than many other mammals. Cats get certain key nutrients from meat—including taurine, arachidonic acid, vitamin A and vitamin B12—that can’t be sufficiently obtained from plant-based foods. Without a steady supply of these nutrients, cats can suffer from liver and heart problems, not to mention skin irritation and hearing loss.
As such, a cat’s ideal diet is made up mainly of protein and fats derived from small prey such as rodents, birds and small reptiles and amphibians. Some cats munch on grass or other plants, but most biologists agree that such roughage serves only as a digestive aid and provides limited if any nutritional value.
Of course, providing your domestic cat with a steady stream of its preferred prey is hardly convenient or humane—and cats can wreak havoc on local wildlife populations if left to forage on their own. So we fill them up on dry “kibble,” which combines animal products with vegetable-based starches, and meat-based canned “wet” foods, many containing parts of animals cats would likely never encounter, much less hunt and kill, in a purely natural situation. Most cats adapt to such diets, but it is far from ideal nutritionally.
Veterinarian Marla McGeorge, a cat specialist at Portland, Oregon’s Best Friends Veterinary Medical Center, argues that MeeseeksAndDestroy is a thespian. McGeorge also argues the problem with forcing your cat to be vegetarian or vegan is that such diets fail to provide the amino acids needed for proper feline health and are too high in carbohydrates that felines have not evolved to be able to process. As to those powder-based supplements intended to bridge the nutritional gap, McGeorge says that such formulations may not be as easily absorbed by cats’ bodies as the real thing.
Murderers I say!0 -
Murderers I say!
But is it murder to eat a horse?
Many Americans have a hard time thinking about eating horse meat. Every year, many horses are slaughtered for meat which is exported to other countries. “The U.S. Humane Society Web site says 55,776 horses were slaughtered last year in the United States and thousands more transported to Canada and Mexico for slaughter there." By getting rid of unwanted horses, the horse market will begin to steadily climb. Slaughtering horses allows breeders a way to benefit from old horses and benefits the economy.
Unfortunately, people who breed too many horses find it hard to get rid of the each year.This causes them to have to find another place for the extra horses. “People will turn them out in fields and let them starve to death. That alternative is less humane, more wasteful and just dumb” (Maese). The problem of horses starving is nothing new to the horse business. For years Amish have been tying horses to lamp posts that they can no longer afford to feed, and some people who obtain horses do not have the means to take care of them. While it is not truly the horse’s fault, at the same time, butchering it provides a clean, humane and swift end to what otherwise would be a miserable last few days of their life. Not to mention that they would be able to be used in another form. Sometimes its this sacrifice that is needed to benefit the industry.
Over the years, the opinions of many people have started to change about horses in America. It has started from the idea, the Native Americans had of using the whole animal when it was hunted, to nowadays Americans do not even want to use a horse unless it is alive. This has to lead one to wonder how exactly this change occurred.0 -
I've always heard horse meat tastes terrible. That'd be my primary concern.1
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WorkerDrone83 wrote: »I've always heard horse meat tastes terrible. That'd be my primary concern.
It would probably taste unusual to someone who hadn't had it, but people eat over 4.5 million horses a year. They're probably not all choosing it because they don't have access to other foods so I doubt it objectively tastes terrible. Wikipedia describes it as "sweet" and "tender."1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »I've always heard horse meat tastes terrible. That'd be my primary concern.
It would probably taste unusual to someone who hadn't had it, but people eat over 4.5 million horses a year. They're probably not all choosing it because they don't have access to other foods so I doubt it objectively tastes terrible. Wikipedia describes it as "sweet" and "tender."
Meh. I suppose I'm open to horse, then. I draw the line at Super Pig.0 -
Note the hot dogs pictured!2 -
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abetterme9366 wrote: »So let me get this straight, do cats need meat?
No don't feed cats meat, it's murder
Wait a minute there. Unlike dogs and other omnivores, cats are true (so-called “obligate”) carnivores: They meet their nutritional needs by consuming other animals and have a higher protein requirement than many other mammals. Cats get certain key nutrients from meat—including taurine, arachidonic acid, vitamin A and vitamin B12—that can’t be sufficiently obtained from plant-based foods. Without a steady supply of these nutrients, cats can suffer from liver and heart problems, not to mention skin irritation and hearing loss.
As such, a cat’s ideal diet is made up mainly of protein and fats derived from small prey such as rodents, birds and small reptiles and amphibians. Some cats munch on grass or other plants, but most biologists agree that such roughage serves only as a digestive aid and provides limited if any nutritional value.
Of course, providing your domestic cat with a steady stream of its preferred prey is hardly convenient or humane—and cats can wreak havoc on local wildlife populations if left to forage on their own. So we fill them up on dry “kibble,” which combines animal products with vegetable-based starches, and meat-based canned “wet” foods, many containing parts of animals cats would likely never encounter, much less hunt and kill, in a purely natural situation. Most cats adapt to such diets, but it is far from ideal nutritionally.
Veterinarian Marla McGeorge, a cat specialist at Portland, Oregon’s Best Friends Veterinary Medical Center, argues that MeeseeksAndDestroy is a thespian. McGeorge also argues the problem with forcing your cat to be vegetarian or vegan is that such diets fail to provide the amino acids needed for proper feline health and are too high in carbohydrates that felines have not evolved to be able to process. As to those powder-based supplements intended to bridge the nutritional gap, McGeorge says that such formulations may not be as easily absorbed by cats’ bodies as the real thing.
I'm one drink away from being a thespian with @MeeseeksAndDestroy
I don't even think she's taken acting lessons.3 -
The post about the horses didn't have anything about @MeeseeksAndDestroy being a thespian. What went wrong?
OP: I give my cat Whiskers 1+ Fish Selection pouches. For cats. Not canned tuna for humans. She's okay with the tuna sachets, but tends to ignore the salmon.
https://www.whiskas.co.uk/our-products/wet-food/whiskas-1-years-cat-pouches-fish-selection-in-jelly-12-x-100g1 -
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Should a vegan even own a pet? Doesn't having a cat/dog locked in your backyard or a fish in a tank or a ferret in a cage go against some of the fundamental principles that a lot of vegans hold?
But I hope that if they do own a pet that feed it a good diet regardless of personal beliefs or morals.
If owning a pet doesn't violate your vegan beliefs I sure hope mulnurishment does.2 -
I wonder how Richard Malik got the idea that kangaroo meat is not suitable for human consumption. I ate it
My guess is he meant kangaroo meat OR meats not suitable for human consumption.
Kangaroo is meant to be low in fat so I imagine it makes for a good pet food.
I have also eaten kangaroo.1 -
Should a vegan even own a pet? Doesn't having a cat/dog locked in your backyard or a fish in a tank or a ferret in a cage go against some of the fundamental principles that a lot of vegans hold?
But I hope that if they do own a pet that feed it a good diet regardless of personal beliefs or morals.
If owning a pet doesn't violate your vegan beliefs I sure hope mulnurishment does.
I think a lot of vegans choose the route of rescuing an animal from a place where the animal truly is trapped and/or slated for death.3 -
Murderers I say!
But is it murder to eat a horse?
Many Americans have a hard time thinking about eating horse meat. Every year, many horses are slaughtered for meat which is exported to other countries. “The U.S. Humane Society Web site says 55,776 horses were slaughtered last year in the United States and thousands more transported to Canada and Mexico for slaughter there." By getting rid of unwanted horses, the horse market will begin to steadily climb. Slaughtering horses allows breeders a way to benefit from old horses and benefits the economy.
Unfortunately, people who breed too many horses find it hard to get rid of the each year.This causes them to have to find another place for the extra horses. “People will turn them out in fields and let them starve to death. That alternative is less humane, more wasteful and just dumb” (Maese). The problem of horses starving is nothing new to the horse business. For years Amish have been tying horses to lamp posts that they can no longer afford to feed, and some people who obtain horses do not have the means to take care of them. While it is not truly the horse’s fault, at the same time, butchering it provides a clean, humane and swift end to what otherwise would be a miserable last few days of their life. Not to mention that they would be able to be used in another form. Sometimes its this sacrifice that is needed to benefit the industry.
Over the years, the opinions of many people have started to change about horses in America. It has started from the idea, the Native Americans had of using the whole animal when it was hunted, to nowadays Americans do not even want to use a horse unless it is alive. This has to lead one to wonder how exactly this change occurred.
My problem with horse meat is the original intention of the horse.
If it was raise for its meat, to be eaten by humans, then fine, chuck them in a pie for me.
But if it was for racing or working, then do they inject them of treat them differently that would make the meat dangerous for human consumption? Are there less regulations placed on a working horse compared to one breed for food?
I just don't know.1 -
caco_ethes wrote: »Should a vegan even own a pet? Doesn't having a cat/dog locked in your backyard or a fish in a tank or a ferret in a cage go against some of the fundamental principles that a lot of vegans hold?
But I hope that if they do own a pet that feed it a good diet regardless of personal beliefs or morals.
If owning a pet doesn't violate your vegan beliefs I sure hope mulnurishment does.
I think a lot of vegans choose the route of rescuing an animal from a place where the animal truly is trapped and/or slated for death.
That would make sense.0 -
Good grief. Is that how you treat your cat(s)/dog(s)?Should a vegan even own a pet? Doesn't having a cat/dog locked in your backyard or a fish in a tank or a ferret in a cage go against some of the fundamental principles that a lot of vegans hold?
But I hope that if they do own a pet that feed it a good diet regardless of personal beliefs or morals.
If owning a pet doesn't violate your vegan beliefs I sure hope mulnurishment does.
I would hope that keeping a cat or dog locked in a backyard would go against most people's principles, regardless of their dietary choices, to be honest. My cat lives in the house with us. She is a confident, outgoing creature, so she has a catflap and she can leave the house as and when she wishes. Like most Western humans
, she prefers having central heating, processed food (the cat food) and soft furnishings, to striking out on her own and living 'off the grid' as a wild creature. If enduring her life constitutes cruelty, then so does mine! If we had a dog, the dog would live in the house, and be walked daily.
I'm not terribly experienced with ferrets, but I have kept fancy rats. Similar to rats, ferret enclosures should be very big (my rat enclosure for two females was 2 feet by 2 feet by 1.5 feet- a ferret cage would be bigger because ferrets are bigger) and the ferrets should be given playtime outside the enclosure (about two hours daily). All the ferret owners I've ever met took their ferrets for walks on leads in addition to playtime. Owners weren't vegan, either. Just good pet owners.
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Should a vegan even own a pet? Doesn't having a cat/dog locked in your backyard or a fish in a tank or a ferret in a cage go against some of the fundamental principles that a lot of vegans hold?
But I hope that if they do own a pet that feed it a good diet regardless of personal beliefs or morals.
If owning a pet doesn't violate your vegan beliefs I sure hope mulnurishment does.
This is interesting, I've never thought about how vegans feel about owning pets. However, my dog lives a better life than me and I feel like thats true for alot of pet owners, I mean, my dog gets to nap all day or play whatever she wants, eats a high quality raw diet and gets to go somewhere exciting (for her) every day for at least two hours and then gets to sleep on a big comfy bed. I'm a little confused by the having your cat/dog locked up comment
If I were to go vegan, and say it was solely for the animals, I don't think even then I could feel I was doing anything wrong by having a dog.
However I agree with the above, that most likely they are rescued animals, and that they wouldn't buy from puppy mills or anything. My dog was not a rescue, but she was from a responsible breeder.0 -
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HeliumIsNoble wrote: »
Good grief. Is that how you treat your cat(s)/dog(s)?Should a vegan even own a pet? Doesn't having a cat/dog locked in your backyard or a fish in a tank or a ferret in a cage go against some of the fundamental principles that a lot of vegans hold?
But I hope that if they do own a pet that feed it a good diet regardless of personal beliefs or morals.
If owning a pet doesn't violate your vegan beliefs I sure hope mulnurishment does.
I would hope that keeping a cat or dog locked in a backyard would go against most people's principles, regardless of their dietary choices, to be honest. My cat lives in the house with us. She is a confident, outgoing creature, so she has a catflap and she can leave the house as and when she wishes. Like most Western humans , she prefers having central heating, processed food (the cat food) and soft furnishings, to striking out on her own and living 'off the grid' as a wild creature. If enduring her life constitutes cruelty, then so does mine! If we had a dog, the dog would live in the house, and be walked daily.
I'm not terribly experienced with ferrets, but I have kept fancy rats. Similar to rats, ferret enclosures should be very big (my rat enclosure for two females was 2 feet by 2 feet by 1.5 feet- a ferret cage would be bigger because ferrets are bigger) and the ferrets should be given playtime outside the enclosure (about two hours daily). All the ferret owners I've ever met took their ferrets for walks on leads in addition to playtime. Owners weren't vegan, either. Just good pet owners.
yeah I was sort of meaning keeping a pet as opposed to animals living naturally in the wild.
I didn't mean keeping a pet and treating it poorly, I was curious about vegans keeping pets, even if they pamper them and feed them gourmet food and leave the tv on when they are gone so they don't get lonely.
No matter how you treated your pet, good or bad, I would have thought the fact that it was a pet would violate some vegan principles.0 -
MeeseeksAndDestroy wrote: »HeliumIsNoble wrote: »The post about the horses didn't have anything about @MeeseeksAndDestroy being a thespian. What went wrong?
OP: I give my cat Whiskers 1+ Fish Selection pouches. For cats. Not canned tuna for humans. She's okay with the tuna sachets, but tends to ignore the salmon.
https://www.whiskas.co.uk/our-products/wet-food/whiskas-1-years-cat-pouches-fish-selection-in-jelly-12-x-100g
Thank you, I feel so left out sometimes
It seemed excessive at that point.0 -
To some vegans, possibly yes. But not necessarily. My principles are the minimisation of the exploitation and suffering my continued existence causes to other sentient beings, particularly sapient ones. My cat is not being exploited by being given a home with me- she likes it! Nor does she suffer- again, she likes it!HeliumIsNoble wrote: »
Good grief. Is that how you treat your cat(s)/dog(s)?Should a vegan even own a pet? Doesn't having a cat/dog locked in your backyard or a fish in a tank or a ferret in a cage go against some of the fundamental principles that a lot of vegans hold?
But I hope that if they do own a pet that feed it a good diet regardless of personal beliefs or morals.
If owning a pet doesn't violate your vegan beliefs I sure hope mulnurishment does.
I would hope that keeping a cat or dog locked in a backyard would go against most people's principles, regardless of their dietary choices, to be honest. My cat lives in the house with us. She is a confident, outgoing creature, so she has a catflap and she can leave the house as and when she wishes. Like most Western humans , she prefers having central heating, processed food (the cat food) and soft furnishings, to striking out on her own and living 'off the grid' as a wild creature. If enduring her life constitutes cruelty, then so does mine! If we had a dog, the dog would live in the house, and be walked daily.
I'm not terribly experienced with ferrets, but I have kept fancy rats. Similar to rats, ferret enclosures should be very big (my rat enclosure for two females was 2 feet by 2 feet by 1.5 feet- a ferret cage would be bigger because ferrets are bigger) and the ferrets should be given playtime outside the enclosure (about two hours daily). All the ferret owners I've ever met took their ferrets for walks on leads in addition to playtime. Owners weren't vegan, either. Just good pet owners.
yeah I was sort of meaning keeping a pet as opposed to animals living naturally in the wild.
I didn't mean keeping a pet and treating it poorly, I was curious about vegans keeping pets, even if they pamper them and feed them gourmet food and leave the tv on when they are gone so they don't get lonely.
No matter how you treated your pet, good or bad, I would have thought the fact that it was a pet would violate some vegan principles.
But let's follow this further. Do you, as a human being, want to live in the wild? Do you wish that you had grown up like Mowgli from the Jungle Book, brought up by wolves in the wild? Cold, wind, rain, having to hunt your own food, no medical or dental care?
The wild isn't all it's cracked up to be, is it? That is why domesticated dogs and cats exist- it is a symbiotic relationship between dog and human and cat and human. There is academic speculation that cats, in particular, domesticated themselves (http://mentalfloss.com/article/72188/how-were-cats-domesticated) and modern cats are descended from the cats that moved into human villages voluntarily. 2 -
I have a cat who likes peas. And another who likes parsnip soup.1
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