Fake vegetarian meat vs protein shakes.
Replies
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TheWJordinWJordin wrote: »In a way, I don't think it's soy. It's all the "flavorings" that are added to soy "meats" and "milks". Even the idea of drinking careegenan in the "milks" bothers me. A soy hot dog had so many ingredients I could not buy it.
Here are the ingredients of Tofu Pups: WATER, SOY PROTEIN ISOLATE, SOY OIL, ORGANIC SPRAY DRIED TOFU (ORGANIC DEHULLED SOYBEANS, CALCIUM SULFATE), CONTAINS 2% OR LESS NATURAL FLAVORS (FROM VEGETABLE SOURCES), BEET POWDER, YEAST EXTRACT, SUNFLOWER OIL, NATURAL SMOKE FLAVOR, SALT, PAPRIKA OLEORESIN, VEGETABLE GUMS, TOMATO PULP.
Compare to the ingredients of Ballpark Franks: MECHANICALLY SEPARATED CHICKEN, PORK, WATER, CORN SYRUP, POTASSIUM LACTATE, CONTAINS 2% OR LESS: SALT, SODIUM PHOSPHATE, NATURAL FLAVOR, BEEF STOCK, SODIUM DIACETATE, SODIUM ERYTHORBATE, MALTODEXTRIN, PAPRIKA EXTRACT, SODIUM NITRITE.
The Tofu Pup actually has fewer ingredients (not that I use that as a consideration what I choose to consume).
I'm not sure which of those ingredients you think would harm someone.11 -
Soy does contain photo estrogens , and can affect your hormones - I personally avoid it - it is in many of the processed foods we buy and eat.
The fact that Asians have eaten it for years is a poor argment - soy is still a poor protein - It is however, a plentiful , widely grown, inexpensive source of protein.
If I were a vegetarian I would rely onother sources of protein. - Eastcoast Jim
5 -
Ah, but it could. Let a meat eater eat it. Bet they stick to promoting real meat.SarahLascelles1 wrote: »Ironically it perplexes me that people that want to just be vegan/vegetarians always seem to want some fake "meat". And isn't that what they are trying not to promote eating? Doesn't just the name "meat" conflict?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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I didn't go vegetarian because I don't like the taste or texture of meat. I went vegetarian because I made an ethical decision not to eat dead animals. Eating meat substitutes doesn't promote eating animals.
BTW what about lab grown meat?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
4 -
Soy does contain photo estrogens , and can affect your hormones - I personally avoid it - it is in many of the processed foods we buy and eat.
The fact that Asians have eaten it for years is a poor argment - soy is still a poor protein - It is however, a plentiful , widely grown, inexpensive source of protein.
If I were a vegetarian I would rely onother sources of protein. - Eastcoast Jim
They are called phytoestrogens. So far there is no conclusive proof that ingesting them changes a humans estrogen levels enough to have any effect.
Avoiding it would mean that you also have to avoid a large number of other common foods like rice and oats, your morning coffee, carrots or apples.
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skymningen wrote: »Soy does contain photo estrogens , and can affect your hormones - I personally avoid it - it is in many of the processed foods we buy and eat.
The fact that Asians have eaten it for years is a poor argment - soy is still a poor protein - It is however, a plentiful , widely grown, inexpensive source of protein.
If I were a vegetarian I would rely onother sources of protein. - Eastcoast Jim
They are called phytoestrogens. So far there is no conclusive proof that ingesting them changes a humans estrogen levels enough to have any effect.
Avoiding it would mean that you also have to avoid a large number of other common foods like rice and oats, your morning coffee, carrots or apples.
Never heard of men growing boobs from eating too much rice though. And many many populations rely on rice as primary foods.4 -
There is nothing wrong with fake meat. I eat veggie sausages for breakfast all the time, along with the beyond meat burger for dinner or whatever fake meat I feel like. I aint scared.
and I do also drink protein shakes.
I'll take whatever protein I can get.3 -
Ah, but it could. Let a meat eater eat it. Bet they stick to promoting real meat.SarahLascelles1 wrote: »Ironically it perplexes me that people that want to just be vegan/vegetarians always seem to want some fake "meat". And isn't that what they are trying not to promote eating? Doesn't just the name "meat" conflict?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I didn't go vegetarian because I don't like the taste or texture of meat. I went vegetarian because I made an ethical decision not to eat dead animals. Eating meat substitutes doesn't promote eating animals.
BTW what about lab grown meat?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I am a meat eater and I still eat the "fake meats" because they have a different taste and texture that I like. Sometimes I just crave a veggie pattie burger instead of a beef burger.6 -
Soy does contain photo estrogens , and can affect your hormones - I personally avoid it - it is in many of the processed foods we buy and eat.
The fact that Asians have eaten it for years is a poor argment - soy is still a poor protein - It is however, a plentiful , widely grown, inexpensive source of protein.
If I were a vegetarian I would rely onother sources of protein. - Eastcoast Jim
The term is actually "phytoestrogens," not "photo."
In addition to soy, they're also found in wheat, legumes, sesame seeds, oats, bourbon, beer, fennel, coffee, and mint.4 -
Not all soy is the same... Also, many foods have soy in it, even non-vegetarian products! Soy protein isolate, is in many processed foods, for example. Organic Tofu or Edamame is not the same as Soy Dogs or other meat substitutes. Not all soy is bad!!
http://www.alloy.com/well-being/soy-products-good-and-bad/3 -
Ironically it perplexes me that people that want to just be vegan/vegetarians always seem to want some fake "meat". And isn't that what they are trying not to promote eating? Doesn't just the name "meat" conflict?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I myself don't eat meat because it's dead animal flesh. But I cook meat for my family and serve it, I think it can smell delicious, and sometimes miss it. But knowing it's a dead animal I cannot eat it.3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Soy does contain photo estrogens , and can affect your hormones - I personally avoid it - it is in many of the processed foods we buy and eat.
The fact that Asians have eaten it for years is a poor argment - soy is still a poor protein - It is however, a plentiful , widely grown, inexpensive source of protein.
If I were a vegetarian I would rely onother sources of protein. - Eastcoast Jim
The term is actually "phytoestrogens," not "photo."
In addition to soy, they're also found in wheat, legumes, sesame seeds, oats, bourbon, beer, fennel, coffee, and mint.
I'm a lousy speller - you forgot rice. Phytoestrogens are found in many plants -soy , flax seed, lentils, various grains & red clover and others . The case against soy is that it is so prevalent - it has been sold to us as a superb , nutritious, protein source, and it seems to be in everything. Soy farming is a huge business - Soy is one of the most heavily sprayed crops - as of 2015 over 90 % was genetically modified, if that concerns you.
- and of course we have the isoflavones that mimic estrogen in the body the phytoestrogens which can cause health problems.
Soy has been sold to us as a Superfood and it is not - at best it is a poor protein source
at worst it can cause us health problems. I do my best to avoid it. Eastcoast Jim
3 -
NinjaT4202 wrote: »The meats are soy based and contain quite a bit of sodium and fat.
I don't think there's anything wrong with soy, and if you wanted to have less sodum and fat (or fat you did not add yourself) you could add in black soy beans, tofu, and tempeh.
Also other beans and lentils, of course, and eggs.
I don't think there's anything wrong with protein shakes, but I think I'd get bored quickly with two a day.2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Soy does contain photo estrogens , and can affect your hormones - I personally avoid it - it is in many of the processed foods we buy and eat.
The fact that Asians have eaten it for years is a poor argment - soy is still a poor protein - It is however, a plentiful , widely grown, inexpensive source of protein.
If I were a vegetarian I would rely onother sources of protein. - Eastcoast Jim
The term is actually "phytoestrogens," not "photo."
In addition to soy, they're also found in wheat, legumes, sesame seeds, oats, bourbon, beer, fennel, coffee, and mint.
I'm a lousy speller - you forgot rice. Phytoestrogens are found in many plants -soy , flax seed, lentils, various grains & red clover and others . The case against soy is that it is so prevalent - it has been sold to us as a superb , nutritious, protein source, and it seems to be in everything. Soy farming is a huge business - Soy is one of the most heavily sprayed crops - as of 2015 over 90 % was genetically modified, if that concerns you.
- and of course we have the isoflavones that mimic estrogen in the body the phytoestrogens which can cause health problems.
Soy has been sold to us as a Superfood and it is not - at best it is a poor protein source
at worst it can cause us health problems. I do my best to avoid it. Eastcoast Jim
What health problems has soy actually been proven to cause?3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Soy does contain photo estrogens , and can affect your hormones - I personally avoid it - it is in many of the processed foods we buy and eat.
The fact that Asians have eaten it for years is a poor argment - soy is still a poor protein - It is however, a plentiful , widely grown, inexpensive source of protein.
If I were a vegetarian I would rely onother sources of protein. - Eastcoast Jim
The term is actually "phytoestrogens," not "photo."
In addition to soy, they're also found in wheat, legumes, sesame seeds, oats, bourbon, beer, fennel, coffee, and mint.
I'm a lousy speller - you forgot rice. Phytoestrogens are found in many plants -soy , flax seed, lentils, various grains & red clover and others . The case against soy is that it is so prevalent - it has been sold to us as a superb , nutritious, protein source, and it seems to be in everything. Soy farming is a huge business - Soy is one of the most heavily sprayed crops - as of 2015 over 90 % was genetically modified, if that concerns you.
- and of course we have the isoflavones that mimic estrogen in the body the phytoestrogens which can cause health problems.
Soy has been sold to us as a Superfood and it is not - at best it is a poor protein source
at worst it can cause us health problems. I do my best to avoid it. Eastcoast Jim
My list wasn't meant to be exhaustive, but to point out how common they are in the diet of many people, including those who avoid soy. I'm unclear why they must be avoided when they occur in soy, but they're fine when they're in a cup of coffee or a bowl of lentil soup.
Genetic modification doesn't concern me and if one has concerns, one can choose organic sources (the rules exclude GMO).
I'm not sure what you mean by it being a poor protein source. Do you mean the protein found is soy is different than the protein found in other plants despite it being more abundant in soy than in many other plants? Or do you mean that you consider getting protein from plants to be a bad idea?3 -
I eat veggie chicken patties. Less fat and calories than fried chicken cutlets. I prefer veggie burgers to beef or turkey burgers for flavor and convenience. I eat real meat and faux meat. Protein shakes? Meh. I'd rather eat solid food.2
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janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Soy does contain photo estrogens , and can affect your hormones - I personally avoid it - it is in many of the processed foods we buy and eat.
The fact that Asians have eaten it for years is a poor argment - soy is still a poor protein - It is however, a plentiful , widely grown, inexpensive source of protein.
If I were a vegetarian I would rely onother sources of protein. - Eastcoast Jim
The term is actually "phytoestrogens," not "photo."
In addition to soy, they're also found in wheat, legumes, sesame seeds, oats, bourbon, beer, fennel, coffee, and mint.
I'm a lousy speller - you forgot rice. Phytoestrogens are found in many plants -soy , flax seed, lentils, various grains & red clover and others . The case against soy is that it is so prevalent - it has been sold to us as a superb , nutritious, protein source, and it seems to be in everything. Soy farming is a huge business - Soy is one of the most heavily sprayed crops - as of 2015 over 90 % was genetically modified, if that concerns you.
- and of course we have the isoflavones that mimic estrogen in the body the phytoestrogens which can cause health problems.
Soy has been sold to us as a Superfood and it is not - at best it is a poor protein source
at worst it can cause us health problems. I do my best to avoid it. Eastcoast Jim
Genetic modification doesn't concern me and if one has concerns, one can choose organic sources (the rules exclude GMO).
OK your choice
I'm not sure what you mean by it being a poor protein source. Do you mean the protein found is soy is different than the protein found in other plants despite it being more abundant in soy than in many other plants? Or do you mean that you consider getting protein from plants to be a bad idea?
Although Soy contains all the essential amino acids and is technically a complete protein, lysine, methionine are in very small quantities - Lysine is important for protein synthesis.
My list wasn't meant to be exhaustive, but to point out how common they are in the diet of many people, including those who avoid soy. I'm unclear why they must be avoided when they occur in soy, but they're fine when they're in a cup of coffee or a bowl of lentil soup.
Good question - I'm going to guess on this one. It may have to do the amount present, of how much get into my coffee cup or lentils - I've never heard a concern on that. We do get a lot of hidden soy in the prepared packaged food. Eastcoast Jim
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Too much wheat makes me bloated, fatigued, with throbbing joints; so I personally tend to avoid fake meat (a lot of times much of the protein in them comes from wheat gluten) - and I'm also not a vegetarian, so no reason for me to avoid actual meat. Most of my protein comes from lowfat dairy though rather than meat (lower fat content than most affordable meat cuts means it's easier to fit into calorie allowance) - so getting adequate protein as a vegetarian (but not a vegan) shouldn't be too hard.0
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janejellyroll wrote: »Soy does contain photo estrogens , and can affect your hormones - I personally avoid it - it is in many of the processed foods we buy and eat.
The fact that Asians have eaten it for years is a poor argment - soy is still a poor protein - It is however, a plentiful , widely grown, inexpensive source of protein.
If I were a vegetarian I would rely onother sources of protein. - Eastcoast Jim
The term is actually "phytoestrogens," not "photo."
In addition to soy, they're also found in wheat, legumes, sesame seeds, oats, bourbon, beer, fennel, coffee, and mint.
I'm a lousy speller - you forgot rice. Phytoestrogens are found in many plants -soy , flax seed, lentils, various grains & red clover and others . The case against soy is that it is so prevalent - it has been sold to us as a superb , nutritious, protein source, and it seems to be in everything. Soy farming is a huge business - Soy is one of the most heavily sprayed crops - as of 2015 over 90 % was genetically modified, if that concerns you.
- and of course we have the isoflavones that mimic estrogen in the body the phytoestrogens which can cause health problems.
Soy has been sold to us as a Superfood and it is not - at best it is a poor protein source
at worst it can cause us health problems. I do my best to avoid it. Eastcoast Jim
What health problems has soy actually been proven to cause?
I have not been able to find any peer reviewed studies to support either side of the argument with out paying for it at a medical publication site - Here are a couple articles that support my argument. In the interest of fairness there are also articles that say soy is great & harmless.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mercola/soy-health_b_1822466.html
https://paleoleap.com/dangers-soy/
Keep in mind that there is a massive food/ farming industry that relies on soy production, there is enough argument for the down side of eating soy that I will pass on eating any. Eastcoast Jim1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Ironically it perplexes me that people that want to just be vegan/vegetarians always seem to want some fake "meat". And isn't that what they are trying not to promote eating? Doesn't just the name "meat" conflict?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I went vegan for ethical reasons, not because I didn't like the taste of meat. Would it be easier for you to understand if we just came up with an entirely new name for it?
It's like plant milk, the name is just a way to conveniently signify the item that it is replacing.
Haha! Like vegan cheese is also called "Gary!"1 -
I am someone that can't process red meats (without a lot of gas/bloating/overall discomfort)
Which fake beef products does everyone like? I am not a huge fan of turkey burger.0 -
MorningStar Spicy Black Bean veggie burgers are de-licious!!!3
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janejellyroll wrote: »Soy does contain photo estrogens , and can affect your hormones - I personally avoid it - it is in many of the processed foods we buy and eat.
The fact that Asians have eaten it for years is a poor argment - soy is still a poor protein - It is however, a plentiful , widely grown, inexpensive source of protein.
If I were a vegetarian I would rely onother sources of protein. - Eastcoast Jim
The term is actually "phytoestrogens," not "photo."
In addition to soy, they're also found in wheat, legumes, sesame seeds, oats, bourbon, beer, fennel, coffee, and mint.
I'm a lousy speller - you forgot rice. Phytoestrogens are found in many plants -soy , flax seed, lentils, various grains & red clover and others . The case against soy is that it is so prevalent - it has been sold to us as a superb , nutritious, protein source, and it seems to be in everything. Soy farming is a huge business - Soy is one of the most heavily sprayed crops - as of 2015 over 90 % was genetically modified, if that concerns you.
- and of course we have the isoflavones that mimic estrogen in the body the phytoestrogens which can cause health problems.
Soy has been sold to us as a Superfood and it is not - at best it is a poor protein source
at worst it can cause us health problems. I do my best to avoid it. Eastcoast Jim
What health problems has soy actually been proven to cause?
https://jasbsci.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/2049-1891-3-31
"In conclusion, our study showed that dietary supplementation with lower amounts of soy isoflavones (250 ppm) markedly increased the testis index, as well as fructose, α-glycosidase, viable germ cells and Bcl-2 protein levels in testicular tissue. However, higher amounts of isoflavones (500 ppm) significantly reduced testis and epididymis indexes, lactate dehydrogenase, serum LH and testosterone levels, and increased malondialdehyde contents, testicular Bax protein content as well as the numbers of early and late apoptotic germ cells in the testis in male Chinese mini-pig boars. Overall, our results suggest that consumption of lower amounts of soy isoflavones (up to 250 ppm) have no adverse effects on reproductive parameters, whereas higher amounts (500 ppm) of soy isoflavones may negatively affect male reproductive function."2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Soy does contain photo estrogens , and can affect your hormones - I personally avoid it - it is in many of the processed foods we buy and eat.
The fact that Asians have eaten it for years is a poor argment - soy is still a poor protein - It is however, a plentiful , widely grown, inexpensive source of protein.
If I were a vegetarian I would rely onother sources of protein. - Eastcoast Jim
The term is actually "phytoestrogens," not "photo."
In addition to soy, they're also found in wheat, legumes, sesame seeds, oats, bourbon, beer, fennel, coffee, and mint.
isoflavones are a class of phytoestrogens which are mainly found in soy and red clover. hence, also called soy isoflavones. the compounds found in grains are called lignans, which is a different class of phytoestrogens.
https://www.cdc.gov/nutritionreport/99-02/pdf/nr_ch5.pdf0 -
I avoid fake meats because most contain MSG, which stimulates appetite. There are various ingredients in fake meats that contain MSG, but these individual ingredients don't have a high enough percentage to require that the label actually list MSG. When 5 or 6 of these ingredients are used, the product ends up having quite a bit of MSG. If this is a concern for you, google "Code names for MSG." Look for anything hydrolyzed or autolyzed, glutamic or glutamate, yeast extract, anything textured or isolate, or even "seasonings."2
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MSG and like derivatives such as autolyzed yeast give me severe headaches. Just about any "fake meat" has this effect due to it's need for high flavor.
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janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Soy does contain photo estrogens , and can affect your hormones - I personally avoid it - it is in many of the processed foods we buy and eat.
The fact that Asians have eaten it for years is a poor argment - soy is still a poor protein - It is however, a plentiful , widely grown, inexpensive source of protein.
If I were a vegetarian I would rely onother sources of protein. - Eastcoast Jim
The term is actually "phytoestrogens," not "photo."
In addition to soy, they're also found in wheat, legumes, sesame seeds, oats, bourbon, beer, fennel, coffee, and mint.
I'm a lousy speller - you forgot rice. Phytoestrogens are found in many plants -soy , flax seed, lentils, various grains & red clover and others . The case against soy is that it is so prevalent - it has been sold to us as a superb , nutritious, protein source, and it seems to be in everything. Soy farming is a huge business - Soy is one of the most heavily sprayed crops - as of 2015 over 90 % was genetically modified, if that concerns you.
- and of course we have the isoflavones that mimic estrogen in the body the phytoestrogens which can cause health problems.
Soy has been sold to us as a Superfood and it is not - at best it is a poor protein source
at worst it can cause us health problems. I do my best to avoid it. Eastcoast Jim
Genetic modification doesn't concern me and if one has concerns, one can choose organic sources (the rules exclude GMO).
OK your choice
I'm not sure what you mean by it being a poor protein source. Do you mean the protein found is soy is different than the protein found in other plants despite it being more abundant in soy than in many other plants? Or do you mean that you consider getting protein from plants to be a bad idea?
Although Soy contains all the essential amino acids and is technically a complete protein, lysine, methionine are in very small quantities - Lysine is important for protein synthesis.
My list wasn't meant to be exhaustive, but to point out how common they are in the diet of many people, including those who avoid soy. I'm unclear why they must be avoided when they occur in soy, but they're fine when they're in a cup of coffee or a bowl of lentil soup.
Good question - I'm going to guess on this one. It may have to do the amount present, of how much get into my coffee cup or lentils - I've never heard a concern on that. We do get a lot of hidden soy in the prepared packaged food. Eastcoast Jim
Yes, but there are multiple plant sources of lysine than those eating soy can eat as well. Eating foods that are complete protein sources aren't necessary to meet one's protein needs, it's the overall context of the diet that matters.
If someone recommended that I avoid soy totally due to the presence of phytoestrogens, but that it was okay to consume them in other contexts, I question that. If they're fine to consume in coffee, rice, mint, and beans, that means you are assuming there is a safe level to consume. So why avoid soy completely?
When you say "hidden" soy, I'm not sure what you mean. I'm in the US, where food has ingredients listed and I can see what is in it.2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Soy does contain photo estrogens , and can affect your hormones - I personally avoid it - it is in many of the processed foods we buy and eat.
The fact that Asians have eaten it for years is a poor argment - soy is still a poor protein - It is however, a plentiful , widely grown, inexpensive source of protein.
If I were a vegetarian I would rely onother sources of protein. - Eastcoast Jim
The term is actually "phytoestrogens," not "photo."
In addition to soy, they're also found in wheat, legumes, sesame seeds, oats, bourbon, beer, fennel, coffee, and mint.
I'm a lousy speller - you forgot rice. Phytoestrogens are found in many plants -soy , flax seed, lentils, various grains & red clover and others . The case against soy is that it is so prevalent - it has been sold to us as a superb , nutritious, protein source, and it seems to be in everything. Soy farming is a huge business - Soy is one of the most heavily sprayed crops - as of 2015 over 90 % was genetically modified, if that concerns you.
- and of course we have the isoflavones that mimic estrogen in the body the phytoestrogens which can cause health problems.
Soy has been sold to us as a Superfood and it is not - at best it is a poor protein source
at worst it can cause us health problems. I do my best to avoid it. Eastcoast Jim
What health problems has soy actually been proven to cause?
https://jasbsci.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/2049-1891-3-31
"In conclusion, our study showed that dietary supplementation with lower amounts of soy isoflavones (250 ppm) markedly increased the testis index, as well as fructose, α-glycosidase, viable germ cells and Bcl-2 protein levels in testicular tissue. However, higher amounts of isoflavones (500 ppm) significantly reduced testis and epididymis indexes, lactate dehydrogenase, serum LH and testosterone levels, and increased malondialdehyde contents, testicular Bax protein content as well as the numbers of early and late apoptotic germ cells in the testis in male Chinese mini-pig boars. Overall, our results suggest that consumption of lower amounts of soy isoflavones (up to 250 ppm) have no adverse effects on reproductive parameters, whereas higher amounts (500 ppm) of soy isoflavones may negatively affect male reproductive function."
Really grateful not to be a Chinese mini-pig boar right now.
If this can be extrapolated to humans, how much is 500 ppm in terms of actual servings of soy-containing foods?5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Soy does contain photo estrogens , and can affect your hormones - I personally avoid it - it is in many of the processed foods we buy and eat.
The fact that Asians have eaten it for years is a poor argment - soy is still a poor protein - It is however, a plentiful , widely grown, inexpensive source of protein.
If I were a vegetarian I would rely onother sources of protein. - Eastcoast Jim
The term is actually "phytoestrogens," not "photo."
In addition to soy, they're also found in wheat, legumes, sesame seeds, oats, bourbon, beer, fennel, coffee, and mint.
isoflavones are a class of phytoestrogens which are mainly found in soy and red clover. hence, also called soy isoflavones. the compounds found in grains are called lignans, which is a different class of phytoestrogens.
https://www.cdc.gov/nutritionreport/99-02/pdf/nr_ch5.pdf
So your argument is that lignans are non-harmful and isoflavones are harmful? What is this based on?1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Soy does contain photo estrogens , and can affect your hormones - I personally avoid it - it is in many of the processed foods we buy and eat.
The fact that Asians have eaten it for years is a poor argment - soy is still a poor protein - It is however, a plentiful , widely grown, inexpensive source of protein.
If I were a vegetarian I would rely onother sources of protein. - Eastcoast Jim
The term is actually "phytoestrogens," not "photo."
In addition to soy, they're also found in wheat, legumes, sesame seeds, oats, bourbon, beer, fennel, coffee, and mint.
I'm a lousy speller - you forgot rice. Phytoestrogens are found in many plants -soy , flax seed, lentils, various grains & red clover and others . The case against soy is that it is so prevalent - it has been sold to us as a superb , nutritious, protein source, and it seems to be in everything. Soy farming is a huge business - Soy is one of the most heavily sprayed crops - as of 2015 over 90 % was genetically modified, if that concerns you.
- and of course we have the isoflavones that mimic estrogen in the body the phytoestrogens which can cause health problems.
Soy has been sold to us as a Superfood and it is not - at best it is a poor protein source
at worst it can cause us health problems. I do my best to avoid it. Eastcoast Jim
What health problems has soy actually been proven to cause?
https://jasbsci.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/2049-1891-3-31
"In conclusion, our study showed that dietary supplementation with lower amounts of soy isoflavones (250 ppm) markedly increased the testis index, as well as fructose, α-glycosidase, viable germ cells and Bcl-2 protein levels in testicular tissue. However, higher amounts of isoflavones (500 ppm) significantly reduced testis and epididymis indexes, lactate dehydrogenase, serum LH and testosterone levels, and increased malondialdehyde contents, testicular Bax protein content as well as the numbers of early and late apoptotic germ cells in the testis in male Chinese mini-pig boars. Overall, our results suggest that consumption of lower amounts of soy isoflavones (up to 250 ppm) have no adverse effects on reproductive parameters, whereas higher amounts (500 ppm) of soy isoflavones may negatively affect male reproductive function."
TL DR1 -
Personally, I think a more diverse diet is usually a better diet. Have a shake in the AM and a black bean burger at noon or something like that.0
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