BMI and recommended Weight
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rfrenkel77 wrote: »Point was that BMI allowes both to carry 20lb more belly fat and be normal . It's too loose. So for folks who are trying to be fit, don't just get to the edge of it, you want to be at center, and especially for women, then the center is still high.
With IBW, you can't loose 20lb more.
I'm 5'8". The median for my BMI range is 143.5. The IBW for my height is 138-141.
So you're telling me that, especially for women, the center [of the BMI range] is still high? It's a two pound difference...not a 20 pound difference. You're splitting hairs over a negligible figure.
IBW still fails to account for people who are skinny fat (as does BMI). Both have their faults.4 -
rfrenkel77 wrote: »You can "absurd" all you want, reality is that those 2 fit males, athletic, were at ideal weight for their performance. No one is carrying 20lb of more bone mass at a given height, or you better check for tumor. And we are not talking about bodybuilder who alters his hormones so he gains 20lb more muscles. If you have extra 20 on you, it's fat. We all pacify ourselves that it's bone mass, it's muscle, it water bloat, we are all so loving and full of excuses for ourselves. It's ok to be more critical, and push ourself into fitness. Get inspired and improve yourself.
For a particular sporting event/performance.
Additionally, if you were a fight fan, you would know that their "official" weight bears only passing relationship to their fighting weight.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/boxing/2017/08/25/floyd-mayweather-vs-conor-mcgregor-weigh-in-live-updates-stream/
Mayweather is a little light there and McGregor looks very big at the weight. He will be 15-17 pounds heavier tomorrow night and will try and bully Mayweather physically early. Great weigh in great atmosphere
Great weigh in for Conor Mac2 -
rfrenkel77 wrote: »You can "absurd" all you want, reality is that those 2 fit males, athletic, were at ideal weight for their performance. No one is carrying 20lb of more bone mass at a given height, or you better check for tumor. And we are not talking about bodybuilder who alters his hormones so he gains 20lb more muscles. If you have extra 20 on you, it's fat. We all pacify ourselves that it's bone mass, it's muscle, it water bloat, we are all so loving and full of excuses for ourselves. It's ok to be more critical, and push ourself into fitness. Get inspired and improve yourself.
Wrong. My husband is 5'8" and 175#. That's an overweight BMI and, according to IBW (lol), his ideal weight is 148-153.
His body fat is 12%. No hormones, no steroids.
Maybe now you can get inspired and improve yourself...let go of the excuses that say it's impossible to have a few extra pounds of muscle with a disciplined diet and workout routine. It's okay to push yourself into fitness.
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rfrenkel77 wrote: »You can "absurd" all you want, reality is that those 2 fit males, athletic, were at ideal weight for their performance. No one is carrying 20lb of more bone mass at a given height, or you better check for tumor. And we are not talking about bodybuilder who alters his hormones so he gains 20lb more muscles. If you have extra 20 on you, it's fat. We all pacify ourselves that it's bone mass, it's muscle, it water bloat, we are all so loving and full of excuses for ourselves. It's ok to be more critical, and push ourself into fitness. Get inspired and improve yourself.
Wrong. My husband is 5'8" and 175#. That's an overweight BMI and, according to IBW (lol), his ideal weight is 148-153.
His body fat is 12%. No hormones, no steroids.
Maybe now you can get inspired and improve yourself...let go of the excuses that say it's impossible to have a few extra pounds of muscle with a disciplined diet and workout routine. It's okay to push yourself into fitness.
Clap, Clap, Clap! (the sound of applause)0 -
Stanman, a 153lb body would look like a marshmallow with additional 17 lb of water. It's was a boast mcgregor made, its nonsense.
Example. I'm 155, i have abs, was very sore for few days after overtraining, so sore I could not attend gym, my body was recovering for 3 days, and I was weighing in at 161. This 6lb water retention is heavy in the abdomen and chest. It was very notable and I could not see abs. I was fully recovered by day 3, thanks for caring, and body flushed out. So that claim was BS, it was extra obvious to me, since this was real recent.6 -
rfrenkel77 wrote: »Stanman, a 153lb body would look like a marshmallow with additional 17 lb of water. It's was a boast mcgregor made, its nonsense.
Example. I'm 155, i have abs, was very sore for few days after overtraining, so sore I could not attend gym, my body was recovering for 3 days, and I was weighing in at 161. This 6lb water retention is heavy in the abdomen and chest. It was very notable and I could not see abs. I was fully recovered by day 3, thanks for caring, and body flushed out. So that claim was BS, it was extra obvious to me, since this was real recent.
Clearly you don't understand the fight game... 17 lbs of water(10% of TBW) is typical.4 -
The BMI chart is a range for a reason. Especially for women.
I'm 5'1", 122lbs, BMI of around 23 which is on the higher end of 'normal'.
I have a decent amount of muscle mass, I'm a pear shape, and have E cups. My BF% is at most 28-30%.
Both Devine & Hamwi put my 'ideal weight' at 105lbs. That would make my BMI a totally reasonable 20 (I know women my height that probably weight that much and look good doing it.)
But if I personally were to lose that 17lbs (of fat) I'd be about 14-16%BF, which might be the Olympic 'ideal' but it certainly isn't manageable for a non-competitive athlete. I'm never going to that IBW unless I lose a some muscle mass, or get a breast reduction. Which is why there is a healthy 'range' with the BMI.
Certainly people should push themselves and try to be their best and get fit. But also a single IDW for everyone the same height is ridiculous.7 -
rfrenkel77 wrote: »You can "absurd" all you want, reality is that those 2 fit males, athletic, were at ideal weight for their performance. No one is carrying 20lb of more bone mass at a given height, or you better check for tumor. And we are not talking about bodybuilder who alters his hormones so he gains 20lb more muscles. If you have extra 20 on you, it's fat. We all pacify ourselves that it's bone mass, it's muscle, it water bloat, we are all so loving and full of excuses for ourselves. It's ok to be more critical, and push ourself into fitness. Get inspired and improve yourself.
BMI loosely defines a healthy RANGE where most people will probably not have an elevated health risk because of their weight.
You cannot define athletisism or performance by weight as it involves too many other variables.
And your fighters do not have the same body type as a powerlifter or a long distance race walker or a swimmer who are all athletes.
In your zeal to poo-poo lack of perfection you've gone off on a tangent my friend.
Getting one's weight in the normal (to slightly overweight) range is a health issue.
Esthetics and performance are neither purported to be measured by BMI nor narrowly enough defined by weight to find a meaningful answer there.
M 5ft 8" 150lbs. You still know nothing about the person's physique, other than that probably their weight does not pause a health issue.12 -
It's important to understand that BMI was developed to measure populations of people, not individuals. Due to different body builds, BMI is a poor indicator of healthy weight for individuals, because it may understate or overstate your healthy weight based on your frame. Body fat percentage is a better gauge of where you are and where you should try to go. Most of us, when losing weight, really are just trying to achieve an ideal body, which is really just lower body fat. You can find online good resources for ideal body fat ranges for different genders and ages. Don't use the hand held or scale body fat measurement tools, those are rubbish and don't work. Having someone with calipers or another more scientific method will get you closer to a better measurement.6
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rfrenkel77 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Even the various IBW calculators have a 4.3 kg variance for me, which at my size, is actually quite a noticeable difference. The bottom one, I can assure you, I look too thin (and this is from someone who has historically had a very warped body perception in terms of thinking I needed to lose weight when I didn't), the top one, actually about right for me, though 900g lower than my current goal weight (which is hiding under my winter insulation). We'll see how I'm feeling (or rather, looking) after a few months of recomp, and I may or may not drop a little lower. Either end of BMI is just LOL.
Results:
Based on the Broca formula, your ideal weight is 57.8 kg.
Based on the Devine formula, your ideal weight is 59.63 kg.
Based on the Robinson formula, your ideal weight is 59.44 kg.
Based on the Miller formula, your ideal weight is 61.45 kg.
Based on the Hamwi formula, your ideal weight is 59.29 kg.
Based on the Lemmens formula, your ideal weight is 62.09 kg.
Based on the BMI range formula, your ideal weight is between 52.21 kg and 70.56 kg.
When I look at a person, I ask, can he she lose 20lb? 95% of women and men...absolutely.! I live in US, folks are obese here. Of course, according to BMI, they are perfect.
<<<5'10" 182 Lbs...not obese and not over fat...The IBW calculator say 160...I'd be skin and bone at 160.5 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »rfrenkel77 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Even the various IBW calculators have a 4.3 kg variance for me, which at my size, is actually quite a noticeable difference. The bottom one, I can assure you, I look too thin (and this is from someone who has historically had a very warped body perception in terms of thinking I needed to lose weight when I didn't), the top one, actually about right for me, though 900g lower than my current goal weight (which is hiding under my winter insulation). We'll see how I'm feeling (or rather, looking) after a few months of recomp, and I may or may not drop a little lower. Either end of BMI is just LOL.
Results:
Based on the Broca formula, your ideal weight is 57.8 kg.
Based on the Devine formula, your ideal weight is 59.63 kg.
Based on the Robinson formula, your ideal weight is 59.44 kg.
Based on the Miller formula, your ideal weight is 61.45 kg.
Based on the Hamwi formula, your ideal weight is 59.29 kg.
Based on the Lemmens formula, your ideal weight is 62.09 kg.
Based on the BMI range formula, your ideal weight is between 52.21 kg and 70.56 kg.
When I look at a person, I ask, can he she lose 20lb? 95% of women and men...absolutely.! I live in US, folks are obese here. Of course, according to BMI, they are perfect.
<<<5'10" 182 Lbs...not obese and not over fat...The IBW calculator say 160...I'd be skin and bone at 160.
Yeah, mine says 156. I'd look like a stick. I pretty much ignore IBW. On the Smart BMI site, at about 175 I'm at my ideal body weight. Last time I was there, I was in great shape but that was 40 years ago. Shooting to land at 180 and reassess.0 -
No mmapags you would not look like a stick. You would look like a fit and muscular 18 year old.
It took me a while to break this mindblock, I was lifting since 14. Bigger was always the goal. My mind warped what normal is, it also warped mind of relatives who compare me to those 20 year old memory snapshots of full face, double wide shoulders juiced beast.That's was normal. Now I look like a dying cancer patient to them in comparison.9 -
My BMI is 24. I don't like the way I look at this weight (141 lbs 5 ft 4 in) - 44-year-old female. I agree more with the Ideal weight calculator. It says I should be anywhere from 119-129 lbs. I have a small frame so agree that I would feel and look better at lower weight range.1
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rfrenkel77 wrote: »No mmapags you would not look like a stick. You would look like a fit and muscular 18 year old.
It took me a while to break this mindblock, I was lifting since 14. Bigger was always the goal. My mind warped what normal is, it also warped mind of relatives who compare me to those 20 year old memory snapshots of full face, double wide shoulders juiced beast.That's was normal. Now I look like a dying cancer patient to them in comparison.
Let's just say, we shall agree to disagree.5 -
Testing1
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I would have to say that I don't like my BMI at 24. Due to my small frame I feel a more realistic goal for me would be from the ideal weight calculation. I should be anywhere from 119 a 129 lbs.1
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Is there a reason my last two posts on this thread have to be "approved" before posting? There was nothin negative at all
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They must not want people stirring things up. Lol1
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rfrenkel77 wrote: »They must not want people stirring things up. Lol
If that's the case, your posts wouldn't have been approved either
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That's funny because I was agreeing with you. But whatever1
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We about to be booted for questioning bmi. The arguments my family and inlaws against my weight loss were very heated. They are all overweight so when someone in their midst losing weight, they are appalled. They think I'm near death starving. It's tragicomic7
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rfrenkel77 wrote: »We about to be booted for questioning bmi
Oh. Well, I feel like I'm living proof that a normal BMI doesn't look great on everybody. I should be 10-20 lbs less imo.
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rfrenkel77 wrote: »We about to be booted for questioning bmi
Lol...MFP doesn't care about someone questioning BMI...it happens all the time. If you're getting a warning or whatever it's because you've broken MFP guidelines somewhere along the way.6 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »rfrenkel77 wrote: »We about to be booted for questioning bmi
Lol...MFP doesn't care about someone questioning BMI...it happens all the time. If you're getting a warning or whatever it's because you've broken MFP guidelines somewhere along the way.
I don't know, I haven't had to wait to have anything else approved and I posted quite a bit today.
And now I've got double posts on this thread.
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cwolfman13 wrote: »rfrenkel77 wrote: »We about to be booted for questioning bmi
Lol...MFP doesn't care about someone questioning BMI...it happens all the time. If you're getting a warning or whatever it's because you've broken MFP guidelines somewhere along the way.
I don't know, I haven't had to wait to have anything else approved and I posted quite a bit today.
And now I've got double posts on this thread.
I've been here for five years...there are literally hundreds of threads questioning BMI...questioning BMI has nothing to do with anything...why would MFP care?
Hell, I've said about a million times over the years that BMI is only one indicator and that you have to look at other things like BF%...I'm overweight per BMI but around 15% BF which is completely healthy and considered "fitness lean"...in my case, BMI doesn't really pan out...neither does that other that IBW calculator.
I could get down to the top end of BMI and have...I'm pretty stinkin' lean at 174.2 -
dancoon7469 wrote: »I'm checking my BMI and I'm still classed as overweight at the moment (which imo I am) but people keep telling me I shouldn't aim for a "normal" BMI and it's rubbish. BMI shows I should be 10 stone 7 pounds to be a healthy weight and 9 stone 9 pounds for an ideal weight according to multiple calculators I've used and tbh I think everyone's just not used to seeing me this thin (I've never been under 12 stone in my adult life until now) and it's making them think I'm ok now (people keep saying I look gout whatever that means) but I just want to totally get rid of the gut and then work on building muscle so for once in my life I look half decent.
I'm 5'5" and as of today I'm 11 stone 8 pounds, my current (and final) weight loss target is 10 stone, does that sound like an ok number, of course I have a brain and if I decide I'm thin enough before that I'll maintain at that weight.
Evaluate as you get closer to a healthy weight. If you have never been near your goal weight as an adult then it is hard to say how you will feel about it. I would slow down your loss to .5 or 1 lb a week (250-500 calorie deficit) with what you have left to lose.
I think BMI is a good guide for most people of a range to aim for but personal experience is the best guide. I feel I'm best in the middle of the healthy weight range for my height and have a medium frame size and am not athletic. I feel okay 5-10 lbs overweight but not my best. I do not feel good at the bottom of the healthy range and I definitely feel worse 20 lbs or more overweight.
Friend or family opinions on what size you should be are probably a poor way to choose a weight. They bring their own bias/baggage.
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cwolfman13 wrote: »rfrenkel77 wrote: »We about to be booted for questioning bmi
Lol...MFP doesn't care about someone questioning BMI...it happens all the time. If you're getting a warning or whatever it's because you've broken MFP guidelines somewhere along the way.
I don't know, I haven't had to wait to have anything else approved and I posted quite a bit today.
And now I've got double posts on this thread.
It's because of the number combo you had in your post. It's part of the spam filter, happens from time to time with completely innocuous posts, which then appear as soon as they've been cleared.rfrenkel77 wrote: »We about to be booted for questioning bmi
Oh. Well, I feel like I'm living proof that a normal BMI doesn't look great on everybody. I should be 10-20 lbs less imo.
No one ever said anywhere in the BMI range looks great on everyone. Of course it doesn't. That's why it's a range. Top of my range is too big for me, likewise I wouldn't even go near the bottom. Even a BMI of 20 is too thin on me. Around 21-22 is my sweet spot. But even that comes down to personal aesthetic. I could go lower, but I'd be sacrificing my boobs to do it, and it will be a cold day in hell when that happens. Some people are perfectly happy at a higher weight. They're mitigating the likelihood of weight-related health risks, and for many people, that's enough. Not everyone needs, or wants, to look like an underwear model.10 -
lalepepper wrote: »
I also find the IBW calculation to be pretty accurate for me, as a 6' female. It says my ideal weight is 176 - my goal for now is 180 and I plan to adjust from there. Lowest I have been was 193 and losing 15-20 from there seems spot on.rfrenkel77 wrote: »Disagree Mega, the BMI is not a guide post, it's a chasm, where a 5'10 individual is allowed a 40lb "normal" window, and makes no diff between man and woman. A total joke. The Ideal body weight IBW formula, lets pick Devine '74, is spot on. Use it instead of BMI, especially for women! When a woman checks BMI she thinks she is normal, even tho Her height in the BMI extends to include a mans high range. You can reality check this by googling the weigh in stats of mayweather or mcgregor of recent vegas fight, or height and weight of you fave tennis player. This will give a great sense of what a fit male or female should be. Ok, rant over, can you tell I hate BMI?
For me it is way off. I am supposed to be 137 lb. If I were that low, I would look emaciated. I got there once and it was not nice. I am better around 155 or so.1 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »rfrenkel77 wrote: »We about to be booted for questioning bmi [/
It's because of the number combo you had in your post. It's part of the spam filter, happens from time to time with completely innocuous posts, which then appear as soon as they've been cleared.rfrenkel77 wrote: »We about to be booted for questioning bmi
Oh. Well, I feel like I'm living proof that a normal BMI doesn't look great on everybody. I should be 10-20 lbs less imo.
No one ever said anywhere in the BMI range looks great on everyone. Of course it doesn't. That's why it's a range. Top of my range is too big for me, likewise I wouldn't even go near the bottom. Even a BMI of 20 is too thin on me. Around 21-22 is my sweet spot. But even that comes down to personal aesthetic. I could go lower, but I'd be sacrificing my boobs to do it, and it will be a cold day in hell when that happens. Some people are perfectly happy at a higher weight. They're mitigating the likelihood of weight-related health risks, and for many people, that's enough. Not everyone needs, or wants, to look like an underwear model.
I think my wanting to be lower has to do with my childhood. Very low sense of self worth / body image. I was always very thin and very athletic. When I hit 30-years-old I changed my ways and started drinking and eating crap to de-stress. I've been working on these problems. I rarely drink alcohol, I've been watching everything that goes in my mouth. I really do believe slowly but surely I will get back to my 20-something body (minus perky boobs - but hoping some plastic surgery will help with that lol)0 -
Eh. IBW gives me 148 Ibs for the Devine formula. I am currently 128 and I have very rarely been over 140Ibs during my life. I can think of two occasions. I tend to believe that a large majority of people have some sort of set point where their weight settles if they are eating within acceptable parameters and are in some way active. But I think most people lose that set point over time, especially if they either cannot or do not heed their body's natural hunger signals. Just my opinion, of course and as such, not all that valuable.1
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