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School Food Policies
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WeepingAngel81 wrote: »I am in a mom group on facebook, and yesterday there was a post created that had me wondering what other parents here think.
A child refused to eat the healthy snack that was offered to her. The deal was, if you eat your healthy snack, you can have a cookie. She was not given a cookie, and according to the mom posting, she was the only one not given a cookie. The mom the asked for other opinions.
Too bad, life is a *kitten* sometimes. If she followed the rule she would have gotten a cookie (even though I don't think they should be offered in the first place)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5diMImYIIA 6 -
This story and the reactions gave me a good laugh.
Thanks for this.
It too showed me, why the world is as it is today.
It has something to do with rules and how we handle them.
What the teacher did was playing a game (quid pro quo) and set up the rules for this game.
Every participant of the game knew the rules and had the choice to act accordingly.
Knowing and accepting that in a game (as well as in the real world) any action will cause a reaction and therefore has consequences.
One participant now chose a more creative solution by trying to bend the rules and complaining when the consequences came ...
Acceptable behaviour?
Should this even be rewarded?
Lets take this some serious levels higher:
Rule: If you kill somebody you will go to jail for a very long time
Here we have the same most basic rule-construction as in the opening example: Premise and consequence.
I'm quite sure that no one of those that opted for "The kid should get the cookie anyhow, because it surely knows best" will opt for "The man should not go to jail, since obviously he knew better who should live and who shouldn't".
I know that this is a very exaggerated example ...
Is it?
How many steps does it take from "If I run to Mom I'll get the cookie anyhow" over "Rules only apply to those stupid enough to live by them" to "Hey, this guy used up the space where I wanted to be"?
The teacher didn't do anything wrong.
She did her job, she tried to teach her pupils a lesson.
The parents now perverted exactly this lesson.
Lets see how many of the pupils will play by the rules the next time a game is played.
Lets just hope no one gets hurt
Thank you so very much.11 -
WeepingAngel81 wrote: »WeepingAngel81 wrote: »
Okay, so what if the kid isn't hungry enough for two snacks? Sorry, kid, no cookie for you -- you just get the apple? That seems pretty harsh, if the cookies have already been offered.
I am saying they should have 2 healthy options such as carrots or apples. Not necessarily carrots or cookie. If they are offered carrot or apple, and then if you are still hungry you can have a cookie, I don't see that as harsh.
So would you as at teacher want to have to administer this for 20-30 kids? Or as a team of cafeteria workers have each of your teammates responsible to do this for maybe 50-75 kids?
Just offer 1-2 healthy snacks from the school. No school employee wants to have to make sure a kid ate one thing before they could have something else.2 -
WeepingAngel81 wrote: »WeepingAngel81 wrote: »
Okay, so what if the kid isn't hungry enough for two snacks? Sorry, kid, no cookie for you -- you just get the apple? That seems pretty harsh, if the cookies have already been offered.
I am saying they should have 2 healthy options such as carrots or apples. Not necessarily carrots or cookie. If they are offered carrot or apple, and then if you are still hungry you can have a cookie, I don't see that as harsh.
Except in effect what this does is only give "treats" to kids with larger appetites or higher caloric needs. If one petite young girl is full after her "healthy" choice, but the tall boy next to her still has room for a cookie (and gets one), the school is effectively just rewarding those who eat more. What kind of message do you think that sends to the kids? What kind of message do you think it sends to set up "healthy" food as an obstacle you must clear to get "treats?" I don't understand the point of offering cookies at all if the school doesn't want kids eating them. If the point is "to coerce kids into choosing a healthy snack," it seems the easier and more logical route would be to only offer healthy snacks.
Yes, it would be easier and more logical to only offer healthy snacks. Maybe in this case, this is what the school will end up doing.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »WeepingAngel81 wrote: »My kids, like any other kids, will go on a binge when I am not home.
Really? that's a bit of a sweeping generalisation isn't it? i never binged as a kid, and we always had a well stocked treat cupboard at home. it was only as an adult when i moved out of home that i gained any weight.
I think most kids would binge eat treats if they thought there would be no repercussions. I wouldn't have done it as a child either because I know there would have been repercussions. But I wanted to. I wanted to eat the whole jar of cookies and ruin my appetite for dinner. I think it's is fair to say that most kids want to.
Yes! I was the exact same way when I was a kid. I remember selling some kind of chocolate bars for band. They were $1 each. I knew that if I ate that candy I would have to pay for them. It didn't stop me from having a few, but I didn't want to pay for all 50 of them that were sent home with us,
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Packerjohn wrote: »WeepingAngel81 wrote: »WeepingAngel81 wrote: »
Okay, so what if the kid isn't hungry enough for two snacks? Sorry, kid, no cookie for you -- you just get the apple? That seems pretty harsh, if the cookies have already been offered.
I am saying they should have 2 healthy options such as carrots or apples. Not necessarily carrots or cookie. If they are offered carrot or apple, and then if you are still hungry you can have a cookie, I don't see that as harsh.
So would you as at teacher want to have to administer this for 20-30 kids? Or as a team of cafeteria workers have each of your teammates responsible to do this for maybe 50-75 kids?
Just offer 1-2 healthy snacks from the school. No school employee wants to have to make sure a kid ate one thing before they could have something else.
You make a good point. No, I wouldn't want to be the one to administer this. Which would lead to one of the other suggestions of not having any cookies to begin with. This would make it easier on the teachers and whoever else is giving the snacks.
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She wasn't there and doesn't know that nobody else got a cookie. I think that requiring kids to eat one snack before they get the treat encourages overeating but this isn't something I would complain about. Life is full of stupid rules and kids need to learn that. Are stupid rules a good thing? No. But better to learn this as a small child than grow up to be the constant complainer, constant whiner about how things aren't fair.6
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WeepingAngel81 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »WeepingAngel81 wrote: »WeepingAngel81 wrote: »
Okay, so what if the kid isn't hungry enough for two snacks? Sorry, kid, no cookie for you -- you just get the apple? That seems pretty harsh, if the cookies have already been offered.
I am saying they should have 2 healthy options such as carrots or apples. Not necessarily carrots or cookie. If they are offered carrot or apple, and then if you are still hungry you can have a cookie, I don't see that as harsh.
So would you as at teacher want to have to administer this for 20-30 kids? Or as a team of cafeteria workers have each of your teammates responsible to do this for maybe 50-75 kids?
Just offer 1-2 healthy snacks from the school. No school employee wants to have to make sure a kid ate one thing before they could have something else.
You make a good point. No, I wouldn't want to be the one to administer this. Which would lead to one of the other suggestions of not having any cookies to begin with. This would make it easier on the teachers and whoever else is giving the snacks.
Suggest on the Facebook post that the complaining mom go to the school every day to ensure the policy is followed as written.
That ought to shut her up.7 -
Not sure why the school is offering snacks at all, but this seems like a variation on the theme of "eat your veg or no dessert" that seems pretty common? Also, those who for whatever reason end up eating less (eg if they're on a 1200kcal target here!) need to make smarter choices with their food to get adequate nutrients. That's also similar to this incident - eat the more nutritious stuff first. This seems to reflect real life in several useful ways - in particular that real life doesn't always match up with any given notion of fairness.3
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Children will always choose desire over common sense. It's up to adults to help the child to build good habits. Personally, I don't think cookies should have been offered at all. In my home, there is no desert. There is no sweet reward for doing what is expected of you. This creates a mind set that they should be rewarded for eating right which can lead to over eating later on in life instead of eating till you are full.
Remember the "Finish what's on your plate if you want desert." from childhood? Remember eating past the point of full just for a cookie or ice cream cone? Anyone regret or resent their parents for teaching them that? I do. I won't make my kids fat.. Junk is reserved for special occasions like birthdays and holidays.3 -
GlassAngyl wrote: »Children will always choose desire over common sense. It's up to adults to help the child to build good habits. Personally, I don't think cookies should have been offered at all. In my home, there is no desert. There is no sweet reward for doing what is expected of you. This creates a mind set that they should be rewarded for eating right which can lead to over eating later on in life instead of eating till you are full.
Remember the "Finish what's on your plate if you want desert." from childhood? Remember eating past the point of full just for a cookie or ice cream cone? Anyone regret or resent their parents for teaching them that? I do. I won't make my kids fat.. Junk is reserved for special occasions like birthdays and holidays.
I grew up in a finish what's on your plate if you want dessert home. I think it taught me good habits by teaching me which foods are important for health and which are treats.5 -
This is the thing that makes me laugh about this scenario: the kids I know have multiple chances a week to get treats like cookies, candy, etc. Go to the bank, get a sucker. Go to church, get a cookie during coffee hour. Visit Mom or Dad at work, get a piece of candy from the candy jar. Get your hair cut, get another piece of candy. Play a game of soccer, get a grab bag with Oreos and Capri Sun in it. Once I had a kid I realized that the parade of treats never ends. Missing one cookie is not a big loss.7
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No, if the rule is that you don't get a cookie unless you eat the healthy snack, then rules are rules and your littler perfect child doesn't get a pass for being a brat. Kids need discipline! They don't need all these choices and options to make them happy. They are kids. Their likes and dislikes change almost hourly and they need structure to keep them in line.
Maybe I should tell my boss that I don't want to do my work but I still demand my paycheck?
UGH I wish I could homeschool.11 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »GlassAngyl wrote: »Children will always choose desire over common sense. It's up to adults to help the child to build good habits. Personally, I don't think cookies should have been offered at all. In my home, there is no desert. There is no sweet reward for doing what is expected of you. This creates a mind set that they should be rewarded for eating right which can lead to over eating later on in life instead of eating till you are full.
Remember the "Finish what's on your plate if you want desert." from childhood? Remember eating past the point of full just for a cookie or ice cream cone? Anyone regret or resent their parents for teaching them that? I do. I won't make my kids fat.. Junk is reserved for special occasions like birthdays and holidays.
I grew up in a finish what's on your plate if you want dessert home. I think it taught me good habits by teaching me which foods are important for health and which are treats.
Same here. I don't remember eating past the point of being full, but then, my mom always gave me reasonable portions. She started us with small portions and we were welcome to seconds if we wanted them.
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Teaching kids to think of unhealthy foods as a reward is not a good thing, and neither is forcing children to eat foods they don't want to eat. Either give cookies or don't but don't make them contingent on eating something else.
Yes, I grew up in a household which made me clean my plate before I ate dessert. And like the OP's children I learned to sneak snacks and binge on them as a result. Healthy children raised in cultures which don't use food as a reward don't naturally do this. It's taken me forty years to retrain myself that I can eat an appropriate amount of food because I can have more when I want it.
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TavistockToad wrote: »WeepingAngel81 wrote: »My kids, like any other kids, will go on a binge when I am not home.
Really? that's a bit of a sweeping generalisation isn't it? i never binged as a kid, and we always had a well stocked treat cupboard at home. it was only as an adult when i moved out of home that i gained any weight.
I found that interesting too. As a kid, I was already chubby, but I never binged or snuck around in food at home or anywhere else. I remember around age 9 or 10, when I started having friends over to spend the night and for short periods after school when my parents weren't there...my friends would be DYING to get into whatever snacks were in the cabinets and fridge. Almost all of my friends did this, skinny, fat, third grade friends all the way up to high school. I remember one girl ate the entire package (probably half full) of Nesquick powder, and another friend was all big eyes "We should make mashed potatoes!" when she saw the box of instant potatoes...she made them, and then put a cup of margarine in them.
You just never know, I guess. The only thing I wanted to get more of was Halloween chocolate.
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rheddmobile wrote: »Teaching kids to think of unhealthy foods as a reward is not a good thing, and neither is forcing children to eat foods they don't want to eat. Either give cookies or don't but don't make them contingent on eating something else.
Yes, I grew up in a household which made me clean my plate before I ate dessert. And like the OP's children I learned to sneak snacks and binge on them as a result. Healthy children raised in cultures which don't use food as a reward don't naturally do this. It's taken me forty years to retrain myself that I can eat an appropriate amount of food because I can have more when I want it.
Sorry, but it took you 40 years to learn to eat appropriately just because your parent(s) told you to clean your plate?3 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »Teaching kids to think of unhealthy foods as a reward is not a good thing, and neither is forcing children to eat foods they don't want to eat. Either give cookies or don't but don't make them contingent on eating something else.
Yes, I grew up in a household which made me clean my plate before I ate dessert. And like the OP's children I learned to sneak snacks and binge on them as a result. Healthy children raised in cultures which don't use food as a reward don't naturally do this. It's taken me forty years to retrain myself that I can eat an appropriate amount of food because I can have more when I want it.
Sorry, but it took you 40 years to learn to eat appropriately just because your parent(s) told you to clean your plate?
And may I ask why you are on this site? It's not all healthy skinny people with great relationships to food here.
Over half of Americans are overweight. It's not because our culture is smart about how we teach our children to eat. Cultures such as France which do not use food as rewards have much lower rates of obesity.8 -
WeepingAngel81 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »GlassAngyl wrote: »Children will always choose desire over common sense. It's up to adults to help the child to build good habits. Personally, I don't think cookies should have been offered at all. In my home, there is no desert. There is no sweet reward for doing what is expected of you. This creates a mind set that they should be rewarded for eating right which can lead to over eating later on in life instead of eating till you are full.
Remember the "Finish what's on your plate if you want desert." from childhood? Remember eating past the point of full just for a cookie or ice cream cone? Anyone regret or resent their parents for teaching them that? I do. I won't make my kids fat.. Junk is reserved for special occasions like birthdays and holidays.
I grew up in a finish what's on your plate if you want dessert home. I think it taught me good habits by teaching me which foods are important for health and which are treats.
Same here. I don't remember eating past the point of being full, but then, my mom always gave me reasonable portions. She started us with small portions and we were welcome to seconds if we wanted them.
Yes, this is me too.
I'm glad I was required to eat my vegetables, as I learned to like them. Overeating wasn't really an issue (and I was always a thin or normal weight child), maybe my mom just had a good sense of portion. (We also could usually get more if we wanted.)1 -
rheddmobile wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »Teaching kids to think of unhealthy foods as a reward is not a good thing, and neither is forcing children to eat foods they don't want to eat. Either give cookies or don't but don't make them contingent on eating something else.
Yes, I grew up in a household which made me clean my plate before I ate dessert. And like the OP's children I learned to sneak snacks and binge on them as a result. Healthy children raised in cultures which don't use food as a reward don't naturally do this. It's taken me forty years to retrain myself that I can eat an appropriate amount of food because I can have more when I want it.
Sorry, but it took you 40 years to learn to eat appropriately just because your parent(s) told you to clean your plate?
And may I ask why you are on this site? It's not all healthy skinny people with great relationships to food here.
Over half of Americans are overweight. It's not because our culture is smart about how we teach our children to eat. Cultures such as France which do not use food as rewards have much lower rates of obesity.
LOL Only Americans must eat dinner before dessert? But that has little to do with why it would take 40 years to unlearn such a simple thing.
We aren't overweight because of having to finish dinner before getting dessert either. That has been going on for many generations. Most of us being overweight has not.3 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »Teaching kids to think of unhealthy foods as a reward is not a good thing, and neither is forcing children to eat foods they don't want to eat. Either give cookies or don't but don't make them contingent on eating something else.
Yes, I grew up in a household which made me clean my plate before I ate dessert. And like the OP's children I learned to sneak snacks and binge on them as a result. Healthy children raised in cultures which don't use food as a reward don't naturally do this. It's taken me forty years to retrain myself that I can eat an appropriate amount of food because I can have more when I want it.
Sorry, but it took you 40 years to learn to eat appropriately just because your parent(s) told you to clean your plate?
And may I ask why you are on this site? It's not all healthy skinny people with great relationships to food here.
Over half of Americans are overweight. It's not because our culture is smart about how we teach our children to eat. Cultures such as France which do not use food as rewards have much lower rates of obesity.
LOL Only Americans must eat dinner before dessert? But that has little to do with why it would take 40 years to unlearn such a simple thing.
You failed to answer my question. Why are you here? You don't get to attack me personally without sharing more about how you are in every way perfect and how you got that way.6
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