Strength/weight training with a calorie deficit
thedreamhazer
Posts: 1,156 Member
I'm looking for information here. I've been having difficulty finding any on this particular topic.
What I want to know if, what happens when you do heavy weight training while running on a calorie deficit?
I know that when the goal is to build up muscle, you should be running on a calorie surplus (with lots of protein), but I don't know what happens in our bodies when we do muscle-building exercises on a calorie deficit.
My specific situation -- I intake 1400 net calories, which MFP says puts me at a 500 calorie/day deficit. In a typical week, with my overs and unders, I probably end up closer to a 2100 calorie deficit than a 3500 calorie deficit. I weight train 5 days a week, with the remaining two days dedicated to some moderate cardio. On my strength days, I do a 10-minute walking warm-up, followed by 7 strength exercises, a 5-minute walk, my second set of 7, another 5-minute walk, and then my final set of seven. My strength days are the following: legs day, push day, pull day, and shoulders/biceps/abs day.
I can't think of anymore information to give. I'm not necessarily looking for advice just for me. I mostly just want to see if anyone knows --- what happens in our bodies when we weight train on a calorie deficit? Do we build muscle? Do we lose fat? Do our muscle continue to break down as they do when we focus on dieting and cardio?
Thanks for your help!
What I want to know if, what happens when you do heavy weight training while running on a calorie deficit?
I know that when the goal is to build up muscle, you should be running on a calorie surplus (with lots of protein), but I don't know what happens in our bodies when we do muscle-building exercises on a calorie deficit.
My specific situation -- I intake 1400 net calories, which MFP says puts me at a 500 calorie/day deficit. In a typical week, with my overs and unders, I probably end up closer to a 2100 calorie deficit than a 3500 calorie deficit. I weight train 5 days a week, with the remaining two days dedicated to some moderate cardio. On my strength days, I do a 10-minute walking warm-up, followed by 7 strength exercises, a 5-minute walk, my second set of 7, another 5-minute walk, and then my final set of seven. My strength days are the following: legs day, push day, pull day, and shoulders/biceps/abs day.
I can't think of anymore information to give. I'm not necessarily looking for advice just for me. I mostly just want to see if anyone knows --- what happens in our bodies when we weight train on a calorie deficit? Do we build muscle? Do we lose fat? Do our muscle continue to break down as they do when we focus on dieting and cardio?
Thanks for your help!
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bump great question!0
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I also thought you were supposed to eat at a surplus on weight-days, and at a deficit on cardio days, but now I am mixing cardio and weights. I guess I am hoping somebody answers the question-I heard you cannot build muscle while eating at a deficit.0
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bodybuilding.com that's where I go to get all my info...also a great community too.0
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This is essentially what I'm doing and seeing some success, but a much different work out schedule. I'll know just how much success come thursday when I get my BF% tested. Make sure you consume a lot of protein (protein every meal) and eat back your exercise calories.
I'm following this:
http://stronglifts.com/fat-loss-101-how-to-lose-fat-fast-with-free-fat-loss-diets/0 -
You DON'T build muscle on a calorie deficit. To build muscle you would be adding weight to your body, so that would mean calorie surplus.I'm looking for information here. I've been having difficulty finding any on this particular topic.
What I want to know if, what happens when you do heavy weight training while running on a calorie deficit?
I know that when the goal is to build up muscle, you should be running on a calorie surplus (with lots of protein), but I don't know what happens in our bodies when we do muscle-building exercises on a calorie deficit.
My specific situation -- I intake 1400 net calories, which MFP says puts me at a 500 calorie/day deficit. In a typical week, with my overs and unders, I probably end up closer to a 2100 calorie deficit than a 3500 calorie deficit. I weight train 5 days a week, with the remaining two days dedicated to some moderate cardio. On my strength days, I do a 10-minute walking warm-up, followed by 7 strength exercises, a 5-minute walk, my second set of 7, another 5-minute walk, and then my final set of seven. My strength days are the following: legs day, push day, pull day, and shoulders/biceps/abs day.
I can't think of anymore information to give. I'm not necessarily looking for advice just for me. I mostly just want to see if anyone knows --- what happens in our bodies when we weight train on a calorie deficit? Do we build muscle? Do we lose fat? Do our muscle continue to break down as they do when we focus on dieting and cardio?
Thanks for your help!
You will lose some lean muscle tissue on calories deficit, but not compared to if you didn't strength train at all and just dieted or did cardio only. The strength training is to help retain the lean muscle you have and to condition it keep it strong. Also when you go on calorie deficit, your body will automatically start to lower it's metabolic rate. This is why many people stall on diet only weight loss even though they may be in calorie deficit. Strength training helps to sustain a higher metabolic rate.
Keep it up though. What I would do though is complete ALL your strength sets first, then do your walk after. This way ALL your energy is dedicated to your strength session first. If any of the energy is "sapped" away from your walking, then your body will break down muscle tissue usually as a first resort to fuel the rest of your lifting. And you don't want to break down muscle tissue for energy usage.0 -
my understanding is that you can lose fat through calorie burn, but you also lose muscle mass. I averaged 20% of my weight loss from loss of muscle mass while on a consistent deficit.0
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Yay for trying out strength training!
What happens is called "body recomposition." You can read about it here: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/weight-training-for-fat-loss-part-1.html
Basically, if you eat perfectly, you will end up building some muscle while losing fat. If you eat well (high protein, mostly clean food), you will maintain most of the muscle you currently have, get stronger (assuming you are new-ish to strength training, as a beginner you can gain a lot when you start), and will mostly lose fat, instead of losing both fat and a good amount of muscle too.0 -
Here's how it was explained to me...
Strength training is needed in order to build lean body mass/reduce body fat/improve fitness and RMR. However, when you're putting yourself in a calorie deficit while strength training you will lose BOTH fat and muscle as your body gets smaller. The strength training is important so you don't lose as much muscle as you would if you weren't strength training. Muscles under stress from weight bearing exercise will still break down and will still need repair and your body will still use what you're feeding it to repair those muscles/build them and that's why protein/BCAAs are important.0 -
You DON'T build muscle on a calorie deficit. To build muscle you would be adding weight to your body, so that would mean calorie surplus.I'm looking for information here. I've been having difficulty finding any on this particular topic.
What I want to know if, what happens when you do heavy weight training while running on a calorie deficit?
I know that when the goal is to build up muscle, you should be running on a calorie surplus (with lots of protein), but I don't know what happens in our bodies when we do muscle-building exercises on a calorie deficit.
My specific situation -- I intake 1400 net calories, which MFP says puts me at a 500 calorie/day deficit. In a typical week, with my overs and unders, I probably end up closer to a 2100 calorie deficit than a 3500 calorie deficit. I weight train 5 days a week, with the remaining two days dedicated to some moderate cardio. On my strength days, I do a 10-minute walking warm-up, followed by 7 strength exercises, a 5-minute walk, my second set of 7, another 5-minute walk, and then my final set of seven. My strength days are the following: legs day, push day, pull day, and shoulders/biceps/abs day.
I can't think of anymore information to give. I'm not necessarily looking for advice just for me. I mostly just want to see if anyone knows --- what happens in our bodies when we weight train on a calorie deficit? Do we build muscle? Do we lose fat? Do our muscle continue to break down as they do when we focus on dieting and cardio?
Thanks for your help!
You will lose some lean muscle tissue on calories deficit, but not compared to if you didn't strength train at all and just dieted or did cardio only. The strength training is to help retain the lean muscle you have and to condition it keep it strong. Also when you go on calorie deficit, your body will automatically start to lower it's metabolic rate. This is why many people stall on diet only weight loss even though they may be in calorie deficit. Strength training helps to sustain a higher metabolic rate.
Keep it up though. What I would do though is complete ALL your strength sets first, then do your walk after. This way ALL your energy is dedicated to your strength session first. If any of the energy is "sapped" away from your walking, then your body will break down muscle tissue usually as a first resort to fuel the rest of your lifting. And you don't want to break down muscle tissue for energy usage.
Thank you, I think this confirmed my suspicions. I am curious, though -- I walk between my sets because I am working such similar muscle groups that I can't move on to set 2 without a rest. I was using the walk as a way to keep moving as opposed to just sitting. How long should you rest between sets?
I run through my 7 different exercises at a circuit training pace (little/no pause between) and use heavy weights (heavy enough that the last 2 reps feel almost impossible). If I continue with the weights I'm using, I'm not sure I could get through all three sets without pause. Any ideas?0 -
If you try to build muscle on a caloric deficit you will just ending up making your body cannabolize lean muscle for fuel. Lean muscle breaks down a lot faster than fat does and can be burned as fuel more quickly. If you are trying to build strength you need to keep up your cals. If you are trying to cut for looks only you can lower the cals, increase the protein and you should be ok. But you cannot add strength on a caloric deficit, your body just wont respond that way. Since lowering my cals to 2400 a day my squat has dropped to below 315 and my bench is sub-405 now, and at first I was concerned, but then I noticed abs starting to show and my waist is down about an inch and a half. It is a matter of goals. This is why bodybuilders "bulk" up then cut back..the bulking, or caloric surplus, adds the size.0
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It is false that you cannot build muscle on a deficit. If you are an unconditioned, new lifter you will have gains in muscle the first few months unless you have a large deficit. A conditioned, experienced lifter will not like add muscle on a deficit.
However, lifting will help maintain the muscle you do have when paired with proper protein and fat intake.0 -
You DON'T build muscle on a calorie deficit. To build muscle you would be adding weight to your body, so that would mean calorie surplus.I'm looking for information here. I've been having difficulty finding any on this particular topic.
What I want to know if, what happens when you do heavy weight training while running on a calorie deficit?
I know that when the goal is to build up muscle, you should be running on a calorie surplus (with lots of protein), but I don't know what happens in our bodies when we do muscle-building exercises on a calorie deficit.
My specific situation -- I intake 1400 net calories, which MFP says puts me at a 500 calorie/day deficit. In a typical week, with my overs and unders, I probably end up closer to a 2100 calorie deficit than a 3500 calorie deficit. I weight train 5 days a week, with the remaining two days dedicated to some moderate cardio. On my strength days, I do a 10-minute walking warm-up, followed by 7 strength exercises, a 5-minute walk, my second set of 7, another 5-minute walk, and then my final set of seven. My strength days are the following: legs day, push day, pull day, and shoulders/biceps/abs day.
I can't think of anymore information to give. I'm not necessarily looking for advice just for me. I mostly just want to see if anyone knows --- what happens in our bodies when we weight train on a calorie deficit? Do we build muscle? Do we lose fat? Do our muscle continue to break down as they do when we focus on dieting and cardio?
Thanks for your help!
You will lose some lean muscle tissue on calories deficit, but not compared to if you didn't strength train at all and just dieted or did cardio only. The strength training is to help retain the lean muscle you have and to condition it keep it strong. Also when you go on calorie deficit, your body will automatically start to lower it's metabolic rate. This is why many people stall on diet only weight loss even though they may be in calorie deficit. Strength training helps to sustain a higher metabolic rate.
Keep it up though. What I would do though is complete ALL your strength sets first, then do your walk after. This way ALL your energy is dedicated to your strength session first. If any of the energy is "sapped" away from your walking, then your body will break down muscle tissue usually as a first resort to fuel the rest of your lifting. And you don't want to break down muscle tissue for energy usage.
Thank you, I think this confirmed my suspicions. I am curious, though -- I walk between my sets because I am working such similar muscle groups that I can't move on to set 2 without a rest. I was using the walk as a way to keep moving as opposed to just sitting. How long should you rest between sets?
I run through my 7 different exercises at a circuit training pace (little/no pause between) and use heavy weights (heavy enough that the last 2 reps feel almost impossible). If I continue with the weights I'm using, I'm not sure I could get through all three sets without pause. Any ideas?
rest should be 30-45 secs if cutting, 1 min. to 1.5 mins if strength training...basically if you are lifting 8-12 reps go short time and if you are lifting 6-8 reps rest longer. You should not be walking in between sets at all. If you are lifting different body parts per day then you do 3-4 sets per body part and then walk. You also wanna do complimentary parts to be effective, i.e back/bi, chest/tri, etc. 3sets of chest then 3 sets or triceps then you are done...should take abot 60 mins. you can walk afterward.0 -
It is false that you cannot build muscle on a deficit. If you are an unconditioned, new lifter you will have gains in muscle the first few months unless you have a large deficit. A conditioned, experienced lifter will not like add muscle on a deficit.
However, lifting will help maintain the muscle you do have when paired with proper protein and fat intake.
You cant build muscle at 1400cals a day if you weight anything more than 160lbs..that is like your daily maintanance alone right there...so it is not false, per se.0 -
Body recomps and newbie gains can build some muscle while in a slight deficit. Not trying to argue the point, just saying.
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You DON'T build muscle on a calorie deficit. To build muscle you would be adding weight to your body, so that would mean calorie surplus.I'm looking for information here. I've been having difficulty finding any on this particular topic.
What I want to know if, what happens when you do heavy weight training while running on a calorie deficit?
I know that when the goal is to build up muscle, you should be running on a calorie surplus (with lots of protein), but I don't know what happens in our bodies when we do muscle-building exercises on a calorie deficit.
My specific situation -- I intake 1400 net calories, which MFP says puts me at a 500 calorie/day deficit. In a typical week, with my overs and unders, I probably end up closer to a 2100 calorie deficit than a 3500 calorie deficit. I weight train 5 days a week, with the remaining two days dedicated to some moderate cardio. On my strength days, I do a 10-minute walking warm-up, followed by 7 strength exercises, a 5-minute walk, my second set of 7, another 5-minute walk, and then my final set of seven. My strength days are the following: legs day, push day, pull day, and shoulders/biceps/abs day.
I can't think of anymore information to give. I'm not necessarily looking for advice just for me. I mostly just want to see if anyone knows --- what happens in our bodies when we weight train on a calorie deficit? Do we build muscle? Do we lose fat? Do our muscle continue to break down as they do when we focus on dieting and cardio?
Thanks for your help!
You will lose some lean muscle tissue on calories deficit, but not compared to if you didn't strength train at all and just dieted or did cardio only. The strength training is to help retain the lean muscle you have and to condition it keep it strong. Also when you go on calorie deficit, your body will automatically start to lower it's metabolic rate. This is why many people stall on diet only weight loss even though they may be in calorie deficit. Strength training helps to sustain a higher metabolic rate.
Keep it up though. What I would do though is complete ALL your strength sets first, then do your walk after. This way ALL your energy is dedicated to your strength session first. If any of the energy is "sapped" away from your walking, then your body will break down muscle tissue usually as a first resort to fuel the rest of your lifting. And you don't want to break down muscle tissue for energy usage.
Thank you, I think this confirmed my suspicions. I am curious, though -- I walk between my sets because I am working such similar muscle groups that I can't move on to set 2 without a rest. I was using the walk as a way to keep moving as opposed to just sitting. How long should you rest between sets?
I run through my 7 different exercises at a circuit training pace (little/no pause between) and use heavy weights (heavy enough that the last 2 reps feel almost impossible). If I continue with the weights I'm using, I'm not sure I could get through all three sets without pause. Any ideas?
rest should be 30-45 secs if cutting, 1 min. to 1.5 mins if strength training...basically if you are lifting 8-12 reps go short time and if you are lifting 6-8 reps rest longer. You should not be walking in between sets at all. If you are lifting different body parts per day then you do 3-4 sets per body part and then walk. You also wanna do complimentary parts to be effective, i.e back/bi, chest/tri, etc. 3sets of chest then 3 sets or triceps then you are done...should take abot 60 mins. you can walk afterward.
In that case, I'll switch out for a 20-minute psot workout jog instead, and just dropw eights as sets progress if I need to. Thanks for the advice!
Thanks to everyone else, too. I am reading everything and following up on provided websites and articles, so keep it coming!
(PS -- I am 159 lbs, so just under the 160, taylorsean.)0 -
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>>>>should be a quote>>>>>>>Thank you, I think this confirmed my suspicions. I am curious, though -- I walk between my sets because I am working such similar muscle groups that I can't move on to set 2 without a rest. I was using the walk as a way to keep moving as opposed to just sitting. How long should you rest between sets?
I run through my 7 different exercises at a circuit training pace (little/no pause between) and use heavy weights (heavy enough that the last 2 reps feel almost impossible). If I continue with the weights I'm using, I'm not sure I could get through all three sets without pause. Any ideas?<<<<<<<should be a quote<<<<<<<<<[/quote]
Circuit training a few times a week is fine but you should be doing your 7 exercises as one set, then rest for a minute, then do the same 7 again as set #2, rest, then set 3... I wouldnt do all 3 sets in a row which is what it sounds like you are doing. I also would not do this every week. Do this for 3 -4 weeks and then switch to more traditional lifting with cardio afterwards OR cardio first thing in the morning and do something like a 3 day split in evenings. What you are doing is more similar to some of the popular HIIT workouts. Careful not to over train!!0 -
As I said, unless the deficit is too large there is no issue for newbies gaining some mass in the beginning. I had my BF measured via calipers and podpod when I started. I did it again about 4 months later and I had increased LM by around 8 pounds while on around a 1200 calorie deficit over that time.It is false that you cannot build muscle on a deficit. If you are an unconditioned, new lifter you will have gains in muscle the first few months unless you have a large deficit. A conditioned, experienced lifter will not like add muscle on a deficit.
However, lifting will help maintain the muscle you do have when paired with proper protein and fat intake.
You cant build muscle at 1400cals a day if you weight anything more than 160lbs..that is like your daily maintanance alone right there...so it is not false, per se.
It also depends on how much BF you have as well. Higher body fat people can cut on larger defficits without hindering gains. So what constitutes a large deficit in relation to gaining/losing lean mass depends on your starting BF%.
Because I was very high BF% I could get away with a larger deficit, but I also was getting enough protein and lifting 4 days per week.0 -
If you are an experienced lifter, you shouldn't be training as much as you used to. Caloric deficits combined with heavy weight lifting make you much more prone to injury, as your muscles won't recover as fast as they do when well fed.
That being said you *can* build strength, just not lean muscle mass. If you use high volume low rep lifting, you tend more to strengthen muscle fiber recruitment and CNS links rather than build mass persay.0 -
Then just rest after the circuit till you're ready to start again. 2-4 minutes should be enough. Most of lifting ends up being mental. Last night I had a group training with some females and I chose the weights they should use. Most of them gasped that I grabbed 15lb dumbells for them to do side lateral raises. Most were used to using 7lbs or less. Now granted they did less reps, but at that point they didn't think they could lift 15lb dumbells for laterals.Thank you, I think this confirmed my suspicions. I am curious, though -- I walk between my sets because I am working such similar muscle groups that I can't move on to set 2 without a rest. I was using the walk as a way to keep moving as opposed to just sitting. How long should you rest between sets?
I run through my 7 different exercises at a circuit training pace (little/no pause between) and use heavy weights (heavy enough that the last 2 reps feel almost impossible). If I continue with the weights I'm using, I'm not sure I could get through all three sets without pause. Any ideas?
Focus and concentrate and believe it or not it will much more effective than you think.0 -
The exceptions would be an obese person with limited/no lifting experience, an athlete returning to lifting after a long lay off, and like you stated a new lifter. Other than those, to build muscle on calorie deficit in improbable.It is false that you cannot build muscle on a deficit. If you are an unconditioned, new lifter you will have gains in muscle the first few months unless you have a large deficit. A conditioned, experienced lifter will not like add muscle on a deficit.
However, lifting will help maintain the muscle you do have when paired with proper protein and fat intake.0 -
As I said, unless the deficit is too large there is no issue for newbies gaining some mass in the beginning. I had my BF measured via calipers and podpod when I started. I did it again about 4 months later and I had increased LM by around 8 pounds while on around a 1200 calorie deficit over that time.It is false that you cannot build muscle on a deficit. If you are an unconditioned, new lifter you will have gains in muscle the first few months unless you have a large deficit. A conditioned, experienced lifter will not like add muscle on a deficit.
However, lifting will help maintain the muscle you do have when paired with proper protein and fat intake.
You cant build muscle at 1400cals a day if you weight anything more than 160lbs..that is like your daily maintanance alone right there...so it is not false, per se.
It also depends on how much BF you have as well. Higher body fat people can cut on larger defficits without hindering gains. So what constitutes a large deficit in relation to gaining/losing lean mass depends on your starting BF%.
Because I was very high BF% I could get away with a larger deficit, but I also was getting enough protein and lifting 4 days per week.
8lbs LBM in 4 months on caloric deficit? Something is wrong with your calipers. Unless you are juicing you will not put on 8lbs of LBM in 4 months and even that is stretching it. Throw in the 1200 cals a day and it is neigh impossible. I would suspect whoever did the calipers did it wrong or you lost fat and were more cut. I dont see you losing fat and adding 8lbs. in 4 months.0 -
ADDITIONAL QUESTION:
So, I pretty much get that I won't be putting on extra muscle on a calorie deficit. It makes sense, so I'm just going to do my best, keep my weight loss slow, and keep strength training to stay fit and retain what I have.
But this brings me to two questions:
1- I've read that you should dos trength training while you're trying to lose weight because muscle burns more fat/you'll raise your metabolic rate. Is this not true, since you can't put on muscle, really, at a deficit? Is ti really simply that I'm combating my metabolic rate lowering as much as it would if I didn't do strength training?
2- If I can't put on muscle, can I still improve my strength? I know when I first started weight training, I benched 30 lbs (pathetic, I know). I now bench 70 lbs. I was running on a calorie deficit that whole time... was this improvement jsut because I was a beginner? Should I stop expecting to be able to do progressions if I'm on a deficit?0 -
ADDITIONAL QUESTION:
So, I pretty much get that I won't be putting on extra muscle on a calorie deficit. It makes sense, so I'm just going to do my best, keep my weight loss slow, and keep strength training to stay fit and retain what I have.
But this brings me to two questions:
1- I've read that you should dos trength training while you're trying to lose weight because muscle burns more fat/you'll raise your metabolic rate. Is this not true, since you can't put on muscle, really, at a deficit? Is ti really simply that I'm combating my metabolic rate lowering as much as it would if I didn't do strength training?
2- If I can't put on muscle, can I still improve my strength? I know when I first started weight training, I benched 30 lbs (pathetic, I know). I now bench 70 lbs. I was running on a calorie deficit that whole time... was this improvement jsut because I was a beginner? Should I stop expecting to be able to do progressions if I'm on a deficit?
#1 It takes surplus in calories to build muscle. And in a perfect world (and naturally) you can only gain like 15 lbs / year (and probably only the 1st year). Everybody is different. As a guideline for every 1 pound of muscle gained you will burn an additional 35 to 50 calories per day. You cant really gain muscle on a deficit but you can preserve what you have, add strength and improve physique. it will also help you out with doing cardio. Maintaining your upper body strength can help your long distance runs for example. Without strength training you risk what muscle you do have to being used for energy while on the deficit. #2 is yes, primarily due to being a beginner BUT not to say you will stop there. Take what a couple others have said and change it up but by all means keep it up with the wts. Once you hit your goal go by the tape, not so much the scale!0
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