can i build muscle on a calorie deficit?
Replies
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An interesting article on why keto is less than ideal for those training.
http://www.bodyforwife.com/keto-and-low-carb-diets-kill-performance/5 -
i found a groupon with three training sessions at a small gym in my neighborhood... a lot of weights in there. thanks guys. also got some blood test results yesterday and my cholesterol is crazy high.. never had that problem before. i bought some fruit and black beans and am going to focus on eating more soluble fiber.. also changed diet to 1300 calories/carbs to 130 instead of 25 and reduced fat.3
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An interesting article on why keto is less than ideal for those training.
http://www.bodyforwife.com/keto-and-low-carb-diets-kill-performance/
Thanks for sharing that article. It has caused me to reconsider my low carb eating plan.
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Its fairly rare that carbs are the trigger but rather specific foods. Do you binge regardless if its fruit or candy?
Second, these guys are right, its very hard to gain while eating keto. What you can do is looking into keto bulking strategies like ckd or tkd. Often they time carbs around workouts and have carb refeeds. Is it going to be optimal like other diets, probably not. But it will allow you to stay keto. You will also want to decrease fats and increase proteins to around 90 to 110g per day.
Lastly, would you mind sharing your blood work numbers?3 -
An interesting article on why keto is less than ideal for those training.
http://www.bodyforwife.com/keto-and-low-carb-diets-kill-performance/
yes I found the article interesting also. I guess I should be eating around 150 grams of carbs. Keto really was good for me for many reasons though. I have been ridiculously inactive while in grad school and Keto allowed me to eat at a 20% deficit helping me lose 5 inches off my hips/thighs/chest (dropped a bra size off those big dumb boobs I hated) and -almost 6 inches off of my waist while laying in bed writing all day.
I think now though, I'm going to take my somewhat fatty loose skin body to the gym now and start eating carbs again.1 -
An interesting article on why keto is less than ideal for those training.
http://www.bodyforwife.com/keto-and-low-carb-diets-kill-performance/
I'm not seeing much science in this. Just a bunch of out of context quotes from random doctors/authors. If anything this is a GROSS exaggeration as not many people are super athletes such as NBA basketball stars or ultra marathon runners. Keto to the average person doesn't diminish gains. The examples in the article are way outside 3 sigma for normal distribution, please keep that in mind. Fear-mongering really doesn't help the conversation.
Short answer, Can you gain muscle in a caloric deficit. YES (under certain circumstances, mainly if you have excess fat and excess weight and haven't lifted weights much in the past)
Should you try: Probably not.
What to do instead: Others have pointed this out.
1.Either eat at maintenance or a little bit above and work on gaining muscle and lowering your body fat % (this is also usually called a re-comp) as you are just shifting from body fat to muscle mass. The goal isn't to lose weight but to just change the composition of your body.
2.Bulk, eat above maintenance for a period of time (this will result in weight gain), and then begin to lift to build muscle.
For the keto thing: I'd stick with what is sustainable to you, and as always get blood work done to ensure you are getting the proper macro nutrients needed. If you've low carb adapted and all blood work is in your favor I wouldn't add massive amounts of carbs back in just because the internet told you to.3 -
Its fairly rare that carbs are the trigger but rather specific foods. Do you binge regardless if its fruit or candy?
Second, these guys are right, its very hard to gain while eating keto. What you can do is looking into keto bulking strategies like ckd or tkd. Often they time carbs around workouts and have carb refeeds. Is it going to be optimal like other diets, probably not. But it will allow you to stay keto. You will also want to decrease fats and increase proteins to around 90 to 110g per day.
Lastly, would you mind sharing your blood work numbers?
This - there are ways to stay keto and at least enhance the ability when you start lifting.
It will merely take some planning as to when you eat those carbs.
Only because it seemed to come up several times in your responses - losing more fat won't help you look toned - because you have nothing there to see as muscle.
The state you are in is reached by many people doing many diets - fast losses & no resistance training.
You at least had adequate protein - but you also proved that without a reasonable deficit and resistance - it didn't help on it's own.
I'd suggest don't make the situation worse at this point, since you don't have time to start doing workouts that will really ask for muscle growth everywhere. Eat at maintenance. Eat more when you do more. Don't try to lose more weight.
Rock climbing will for a bit be useful - but as you've probably noticed on some great climbers - it ain't a big call for muscles - but endurance of the muscles you got.
So you may be able to at least strengthen what you got and tendons/ligaments - which will be useful for when you have more time to move into something more structured that can have a bigger effect on actually gaining muscles.
After your school schedule is better for it.2 -
Its fairly rare that carbs are the trigger but rather specific foods. Do you binge regardless if its fruit or candy?
Second, these guys are right, its very hard to gain while eating keto. What you can do is looking into keto bulking strategies like ckd or tkd. Often they time carbs around workouts and have carb refeeds. Is it going to be optimal like other diets, probably not. But it will allow you to stay keto. You will also want to decrease fats and increase proteins to around 90 to 110g per day.
Lastly, would you mind sharing your blood work numbers?
all of my sugars and everything were normal, but my LDL number is 168... another number, non HDL, is 187, and total cholesterol 290.. that is why I am adding soluble fiber - beans and fruit..and more veggies....i used to binge on pasta and bread and candy, .. don't want to start eating those again.
the other number that wasn't normal was a low carbon dioxide number of 16..
the thing about me is that I have never worked out hard enough to justify eating a ton of carbs.. kind of doubt i can, we'll see.0 -
Be aware that for years what has been some skepticism about the importance of those numbers to anything of importance, or as great of importance as it's made out to be.
Even the lately admitted info on cholesterol that studies many years ago pointed out, showing not as bad as thought.
And the fact more and more heart surgeons have released combined patient info showing they have patients getting work done with cholesterol levels all over the board, from what is considered great to awful - doesn't seem to be an indicator.
Trying to figure out what non-HDL is, that would be huge positive if it was HDL at 187. Is it VLDL or Triglycerides perhaps?0 -
I find myself laying here wondering if I can find some carbs to eat in the next 15 minutes before I start on tomorrow's calories.0
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tlanger251 wrote: »I find myself laying here wondering if I can find some carbs to eat in the next 15 minutes before I start on tomorrow's calories.
About 300 cal of Protein, carbs, and fat.
A Clif Builder's bar!1 -
Be aware that for years what has been some skepticism about the importance of those numbers to anything of importance, or as great of importance as it's made out to be.
Even the lately admitted info on cholesterol that studies many years ago pointed out, showing not as bad as thought.
And the fact more and more heart surgeons have released combined patient info showing they have patients getting work done with cholesterol levels all over the board, from what is considered great to awful - doesn't seem to be an indicator.
Trying to figure out what non-HDL is, that would be huge positive if it was HDL at 187. Is it VLDL or Triglycerides perhaps?
HDL is 103
Triglycerides 89
CHOL/HDLC Ratio 2.8
posting the whole category.. not sure what non HDL is
1 -
An interesting article on why keto is less than ideal for those training.
http://www.bodyforwife.com/keto-and-low-carb-diets-kill-performance/
I'm not seeing much science in this. Just a bunch of out of context quotes from random doctors/authors. If anything this is a GROSS exaggeration as not many people are super athletes such as NBA basketball stars or ultra marathon runners. Keto to the average person doesn't diminish gains. The examples in the article are way outside 3 sigma for normal distribution, please keep that in mind. Fear-mongering really doesn't help the conversation.
Short answer, Can you gain muscle in a caloric deficit. YES (under certain circumstances, mainly if you have excess fat and excess weight and haven't lifted weights much in the past)
Should you try: Probably not.
What to do instead: Others have pointed this out.
1.Either eat at maintenance or a little bit above and work on gaining muscle and lowering your body fat % (this is also usually called a re-comp) as you are just shifting from body fat to muscle mass. The goal isn't to lose weight but to just change the composition of your body.
2.Bulk, eat above maintenance for a period of time (this will result in weight gain), and then begin to lift to build muscle.
For the keto thing: I'd stick with what is sustainable to you, and as always get blood work done to ensure you are getting the proper macro nutrients needed. If you've low carb adapted and all blood work is in your favor I wouldn't add massive amounts of carbs back in just because the internet told you to.
Keep reading. Several studies listed. And lol at fear mongering and "random" authors and doctors relative to Aragon and others quoted.0 -
tlanger251 wrote: »Be aware that for years what has been some skepticism about the importance of those numbers to anything of importance, or as great of importance as it's made out to be.
Even the lately admitted info on cholesterol that studies many years ago pointed out, showing not as bad as thought.
And the fact more and more heart surgeons have released combined patient info showing they have patients getting work done with cholesterol levels all over the board, from what is considered great to awful - doesn't seem to be an indicator.
Trying to figure out what non-HDL is, that would be huge positive if it was HDL at 187. Is it VLDL or Triglycerides perhaps?
HDL is 103
Triglycerides 89
CHOL/HDLC Ratio 2.8
posting the whole category.. not sure what non HDL is
Your numbers are actually pretty good. You HDL and triglycerides are amazing and and your total cholesterol to HDL ratio is also in a good position.
Non HDL is supposed to be a better indicator than LDL based on newer research but i dont know good ranges.
Regarding carbs as a trigger... its not carbs, its specific foods. Dont fear carbs because you have trigger foods that are carb based. Just stay awau from your trigger foods.
So bring in mlre fibrous fruits and beans. All things that can improve metabolic health.2 -
tlanger251 wrote: »Be aware that for years what has been some skepticism about the importance of those numbers to anything of importance, or as great of importance as it's made out to be.
Even the lately admitted info on cholesterol that studies many years ago pointed out, showing not as bad as thought.
And the fact more and more heart surgeons have released combined patient info showing they have patients getting work done with cholesterol levels all over the board, from what is considered great to awful - doesn't seem to be an indicator.
Trying to figure out what non-HDL is, that would be huge positive if it was HDL at 187. Is it VLDL or Triglycerides perhaps?
HDL is 103
Triglycerides 89
CHOL/HDLC Ratio 2.8
posting the whole category.. not sure what non HDL is
Your numbers are actually pretty good. You HDL and triglycerides are amazing and and your total cholesterol to HDL ratio is also in a good position.
Non HDL is supposed to be a better indicator than LDL based on newer research but i dont know good ranges.
Regarding carbs as a trigger... its not carbs, its specific foods. Dont fear carbs because you have trigger foods that are carb based. Just stay awau from your trigger foods.
So bring in mlre fibrous fruits and beans. All things that can improve metabolic health.
I agree. Your total is kinda high and I also don't know the range on Non HDL but the rest of good. Interestingly, I have an appointment for my annual physical in a couple of hours and we always go over my blood work. My Non HDL is a little high and it's on my list of questions so I'll post what the doctor tells me.0 -
So, I might chime in......
There are a couple of concepts involved here.
First and foremost, and I am very much simplifying things, it is "essentially" Calories In vs. Calories Out. So, you have to consume the number of Calories that matches your goal.
Generally speaking, when you want to "bulk" you need to be in a Caloric Surplus. Bulking is lifting heavy and often to gain muscle and strength and eating such that you feed the machine (translation - you are eating a lot of carbs, generally speaking). You are typically lifting heavy (so, think 5 x 5 or 8 x 3 or similar) and your intensity is high (read: you are lifting at weights closer to your 1 Rep Max). You will also gain some body fat along this path. You typically want to bulk when you have lower body fat (typically, if we were to put numbers to this, 13% for dudes and 20% for the ladies.....roughly.....very very roughly). To put it the other way, if you have higher body fat and are considering a bulk then you might consider doing some sort of cut before otherwise you would not necessarily be happy with the results (read: have more body fat at the end than you might like).
Generally speaking, when you want to "cut" you need to be in a Caloric Deficit. Generally speaking, you need to know your maintenance Caloric intake for that. You then - depending on your goal - reduce that number. So, generally you need to consume 500 Calories a day (or, 3,500 Calories a week) under your maintenance total to loose 1 lbs in that week. You might train heavy and have a high intensity but those two things subside - generally speaking - as you progress into your cut. Your carb intake is going to - generally speaking - be lower in a cut (and your protein is likely going to be a tad bit higher than usual) so training heavy and with intensity becomes a challenge.
A recomp is when you eat at your Maintenance Number but lift heavy. Well, likely heavy for one of the training sessions and then maybe more "hypertrophy" for the other training session that week (assuming that you are doing a body part twice a week....which may or may not be accurate).
If you are "skinny fat" then it might not be a bad idea to do a recomp.
Essentially, when you do a recomp you are doing - at the risk of sounding like a mart kitten - a recomp. You are redistributing your body....adding some muscle and loosing some body fat. Your weight might not change, but your body will look different and your clothes will fit slightly differently. Roughly.....
Does this make sense?2 -
An interesting article on why keto is less than ideal for those training.
http://www.bodyforwife.com/keto-and-low-carb-diets-kill-performance/
I'm not seeing much science in this. Just a bunch of out of context quotes from random doctors/authors. If anything this is a GROSS exaggeration as not many people are super athletes such as NBA basketball stars or ultra marathon runners. Keto to the average person doesn't diminish gains. The examples in the article are way outside 3 sigma for normal distribution, please keep that in mind. Fear-mongering really doesn't help the conversation.
Short answer, Can you gain muscle in a caloric deficit. YES (under certain circumstances, mainly if you have excess fat and excess weight and haven't lifted weights much in the past)
Should you try: Probably not.
What to do instead: Others have pointed this out.
1.Either eat at maintenance or a little bit above and work on gaining muscle and lowering your body fat % (this is also usually called a re-comp) as you are just shifting from body fat to muscle mass. The goal isn't to lose weight but to just change the composition of your body.
2.Bulk, eat above maintenance for a period of time (this will result in weight gain), and then begin to lift to build muscle.
For the keto thing: I'd stick with what is sustainable to you, and as always get blood work done to ensure you are getting the proper macro nutrients needed. If you've low carb adapted and all blood work is in your favor I wouldn't add massive amounts of carbs back in just because the internet told you to.
Keep reading. Several studies listed. And lol at fear mongering and "random" authors and doctors relative to Aragon and others quoted.
In addition to missing the studies did you also miss where Aragon is quotedAt low and moderate intensities, this doesn’t matter much. If you’re always at cruising speed and the straw provides enough fuel, then that’s okay.
He then goes on to ask the question:But would you never want to go high-intensity? And I’m not just talking about aerobic activity. Any type of physical activity is going to be limited to moderate intensity if you eschew rather than chew carbohydrates. Forget being able to sprint worth a damn. And very low carb will have a negative effect on weight lifting performance as well (more on that later).
Also, while it may be true that many of the examples or high intensity athletes, that doesn't invalidate the concepts for anyone who participates in high intensity training of any type. Interesting, keto advocates often cite Chis Froome as an example of a elite endurance athlete who practices keto, except when you read articles on his training, he doesn't when competing, just like the keto endurance athletes cited in the article.
0 -
An interesting article on why keto is less than ideal for those training.
http://www.bodyforwife.com/keto-and-low-carb-diets-kill-performance/
I'm not seeing much science in this. Just a bunch of out of context quotes from random doctors/authors. If anything this is a GROSS exaggeration as not many people are super athletes such as NBA basketball stars or ultra marathon runners. Keto to the average person doesn't diminish gains. The examples in the article are way outside 3 sigma for normal distribution, please keep that in mind. Fear-mongering really doesn't help the conversation.
Short answer, Can you gain muscle in a caloric deficit. YES (under certain circumstances, mainly if you have excess fat and excess weight and haven't lifted weights much in the past)
Should you try: Probably not.
What to do instead: Others have pointed this out.
1.Either eat at maintenance or a little bit above and work on gaining muscle and lowering your body fat % (this is also usually called a re-comp) as you are just shifting from body fat to muscle mass. The goal isn't to lose weight but to just change the composition of your body.
2.Bulk, eat above maintenance for a period of time (this will result in weight gain), and then begin to lift to build muscle.
For the keto thing: I'd stick with what is sustainable to you, and as always get blood work done to ensure you are getting the proper macro nutrients needed. If you've low carb adapted and all blood work is in your favor I wouldn't add massive amounts of carbs back in just because the internet told you to.
Keep reading. Several studies listed. And lol at fear mongering and "random" authors and doctors relative to Aragon and others quoted.
In addition to missing the studies did you also miss where Aragon is quotedAt low and moderate intensities, this doesn’t matter much. If you’re always at cruising speed and the straw provides enough fuel, then that’s okay.
He then goes on to ask the question:But would you never want to go high-intensity? And I’m not just talking about aerobic activity. Any type of physical activity is going to be limited to moderate intensity if you eschew rather than chew carbohydrates. Forget being able to sprint worth a damn. And very low carb will have a negative effect on weight lifting performance as well (more on that later).
Also, while it may be true that many of the examples or high intensity athletes, that doesn't invalidate the concepts for anyone who participates in high intensity training of any type. Interesting, keto advocates often cite Chis Froome as an example of a elite endurance athlete who practices keto, except when you read articles on his training, he doesn't when competing, just like the keto endurance athletes cited in the article.
Well, and while the examples are high intensity athletes, that is to make it easier to have someone that is going to be pushing themselves to those upper limits without as much need for prodding if any. For the studies that use athletes.
But the info is still good for your average joe/jane that can also push themselves hard to the same level of what the body is doing, even though not to the same levels of performance.
Chris doing his 450 lb squats during training in keto is making his body hit those problem spots.
Avg Joe/Jane doing 185/135 lb squats during their training can be hitting those exact same spots - and issues.
So sure the comments still apply.
Interesting how advocates of this or that leave out when their favorite well known adherent doesn't actually follow the program.
I remember this coming up with the Primal/Paleo before those sites caved in and wrote some articles as to what to do when you actually enjoy and want to do endurance cardio, because several of their well-known advocates broke from the program to do their events.
That leaves 1 endurance cyclist I think a Dr that does keto that I keep hearing about.3 -
tlanger251 wrote: »Be aware that for years what has been some skepticism about the importance of those numbers to anything of importance, or as great of importance as it's made out to be.
Even the lately admitted info on cholesterol that studies many years ago pointed out, showing not as bad as thought.
And the fact more and more heart surgeons have released combined patient info showing they have patients getting work done with cholesterol levels all over the board, from what is considered great to awful - doesn't seem to be an indicator.
Trying to figure out what non-HDL is, that would be huge positive if it was HDL at 187. Is it VLDL or Triglycerides perhaps?
HDL is 103
Triglycerides 89
CHOL/HDLC Ratio 2.8
posting the whole category.. not sure what non HDL is
Your numbers are actually pretty good. You HDL and triglycerides are amazing and and your total cholesterol to HDL ratio is also in a good position.
Non HDL is supposed to be a better indicator than LDL based on newer research but i dont know good ranges.
Regarding carbs as a trigger... its not carbs, its specific foods. Dont fear carbs because you have trigger foods that are carb based. Just stay awau from your trigger foods.
So bring in mlre fibrous fruits and beans. All things that can improve metabolic health.
I agree. Your total is kinda high and I also don't know the range on Non HDL but the rest of good. Interestingly, I have an appointment for my annual physical in a couple of hours and we always go over my blood work. My Non HDL is a little high and it's on my list of questions so I'll post what the doctor tells me.
After my doctors visit, he said that Non HDL range of under 130, mine is 136. But, he felt like this is only one data point in a big picture. Like you, my Tot Chol to HDLC is excellent at 3.3, my triglycerides are are "crazy good" , as he called them, at 60. My LDL is a little elevated and my total Chol is 196. He feels that there is little to no risk with my profile. It seems the only difference between us is that your total Chol is high.
He also made me aware of the best test to see if you have a problem but cautioned that most health insurance doesn't cover it. It is the Cholesterol Particle test. You have high total and Non HDL and have low particle count and be low risk and vice versa. Might be worth exploring.0 -
CWShultz27105 wrote: »So, I might chime in......
There are a couple of concepts involved here.
First and foremost, and I am very much simplifying things, it is "essentially" Calories In vs. Calories Out. So, you have to consume the number of Calories that matches your goal.
Generally speaking, when you want to "bulk" you need to be in a Caloric Surplus. Bulking is lifting heavy and often to gain muscle and strength and eating such that you feed the machine (translation - you are eating a lot of carbs, generally speaking). You are typically lifting heavy (so, think 5 x 5 or 8 x 3 or similar) and your intensity is high (read: you are lifting at weights closer to your 1 Rep Max). You will also gain some body fat along this path. You typically want to bulk when you have lower body fat (typically, if we were to put numbers to this, 13% for dudes and 20% for the ladies.....roughly.....very very roughly). To put it the other way, if you have higher body fat and are considering a bulk then you might consider doing some sort of cut before otherwise you would not necessarily be happy with the results (read: have more body fat at the end than you might like).
Generally speaking, when you want to "cut" you need to be in a Caloric Deficit. Generally speaking, you need to know your maintenance Caloric intake for that. You then - depending on your goal - reduce that number. So, generally you need to consume 500 Calories a day (or, 3,500 Calories a week) under your maintenance total to loose 1 lbs in that week. You might train heavy and have a high intensity but those two things subside - generally speaking - as you progress into your cut. Your carb intake is going to - generally speaking - be lower in a cut (and your protein is likely going to be a tad bit higher than usual) so training heavy and with intensity becomes a challenge.
A recomp is when you eat at your Maintenance Number but lift heavy. Well, likely heavy for one of the training sessions and then maybe more "hypertrophy" for the other training session that week (assuming that you are doing a body part twice a week....which may or may not be accurate).
If you are "skinny fat" then it might not be a bad idea to do a recomp.
Essentially, when you do a recomp you are doing - at the risk of sounding like a mart kitten - a recomp. You are redistributing your body....adding some muscle and loosing some body fat. Your weight might not change, but your body will look different and your clothes will fit slightly differently. Roughly.....
Does this make sense?
yes, thank you! I want to do a recomp.. didn't know the name.. I think my body fat is around 25%1 -
tlanger251 wrote: »CWShultz27105 wrote: »So, I might chime in......
There are a couple of concepts involved here.
First and foremost, and I am very much simplifying things, it is "essentially" Calories In vs. Calories Out. So, you have to consume the number of Calories that matches your goal.
Generally speaking, when you want to "bulk" you need to be in a Caloric Surplus. Bulking is lifting heavy and often to gain muscle and strength and eating such that you feed the machine (translation - you are eating a lot of carbs, generally speaking). You are typically lifting heavy (so, think 5 x 5 or 8 x 3 or similar) and your intensity is high (read: you are lifting at weights closer to your 1 Rep Max). You will also gain some body fat along this path. You typically want to bulk when you have lower body fat (typically, if we were to put numbers to this, 13% for dudes and 20% for the ladies.....roughly.....very very roughly). To put it the other way, if you have higher body fat and are considering a bulk then you might consider doing some sort of cut before otherwise you would not necessarily be happy with the results (read: have more body fat at the end than you might like).
Generally speaking, when you want to "cut" you need to be in a Caloric Deficit. Generally speaking, you need to know your maintenance Caloric intake for that. You then - depending on your goal - reduce that number. So, generally you need to consume 500 Calories a day (or, 3,500 Calories a week) under your maintenance total to loose 1 lbs in that week. You might train heavy and have a high intensity but those two things subside - generally speaking - as you progress into your cut. Your carb intake is going to - generally speaking - be lower in a cut (and your protein is likely going to be a tad bit higher than usual) so training heavy and with intensity becomes a challenge.
A recomp is when you eat at your Maintenance Number but lift heavy. Well, likely heavy for one of the training sessions and then maybe more "hypertrophy" for the other training session that week (assuming that you are doing a body part twice a week....which may or may not be accurate).
If you are "skinny fat" then it might not be a bad idea to do a recomp.
Essentially, when you do a recomp you are doing - at the risk of sounding like a mart kitten - a recomp. You are redistributing your body....adding some muscle and loosing some body fat. Your weight might not change, but your body will look different and your clothes will fit slightly differently. Roughly.....
Does this make sense?
yes, thank you! I want to do a recomp.. didn't know the name.. I think my body fat is around 25%
get a dexa scan or hydrostatic weight thing to see how much body fat you have. it may be lower than you think but it may not be.those things are more accurate than other ways(like calipers and so on)0 -
tlanger251 wrote: »
Carbs and protein are too low. Muscle is ONLY built from proteins and you need carbs to help with calories and anabolism if you're trying to gain muscle. Honestly, I'd look more at a 40% carbs/40% protein/20% fat ratio IF your intent is to put on muscle.tlanger251 wrote: »
Thanks, I guess if I am working out, I will be more hungry?? I hope to stick to 10% carbs/25% protein/65% fat
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Before I started doing the ketogenic diet, I was addicted to carbs and I struggled with binge eating for my whole life. I am afraid to eat carbs again. For the first time in my life I only eat when I'm hungry.. There are body builders/athletes who swear by the 10/25/65 macros... I don't know.. guess I will have to do more research about that.
Those guys are in a pre-show cut, not mass building. Keto is not optimal for putting on mass.
What carbs specifically were you "addicted" to...I have a couple of body builder friends and they eat a lot of potatoes and sweet potatoes and stuff like that...1 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »tlanger251 wrote: »
Carbs and protein are too low. Muscle is ONLY built from proteins and you need carbs to help with calories and anabolism if you're trying to gain muscle. Honestly, I'd look more at a 40% carbs/40% protein/20% fat ratio IF your intent is to put on muscle.tlanger251 wrote: »
Thanks, I guess if I am working out, I will be more hungry?? I hope to stick to 10% carbs/25% protein/65% fat
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Before I started doing the ketogenic diet, I was addicted to carbs and I struggled with binge eating for my whole life. I am afraid to eat carbs again. For the first time in my life I only eat when I'm hungry.. There are body builders/athletes who swear by the 10/25/65 macros... I don't know.. guess I will have to do more research about that.
Those guys are in a pre-show cut, not mass building. Keto is not optimal for putting on mass.
What carbs specifically were you "addicted" to...I have a couple of body builder friends and they eat a lot of potatoes and sweet potatoes and stuff like that...
Her triggers are breads, pastas and the alike. It was posted about 10 or so post back. Its not rhe carbs... its the foods.2 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »tlanger251 wrote: »CWShultz27105 wrote: »So, I might chime in......
There are a couple of concepts involved here.
First and foremost, and I am very much simplifying things, it is "essentially" Calories In vs. Calories Out. So, you have to consume the number of Calories that matches your goal.
Generally speaking, when you want to "bulk" you need to be in a Caloric Surplus. Bulking is lifting heavy and often to gain muscle and strength and eating such that you feed the machine (translation - you are eating a lot of carbs, generally speaking). You are typically lifting heavy (so, think 5 x 5 or 8 x 3 or similar) and your intensity is high (read: you are lifting at weights closer to your 1 Rep Max). You will also gain some body fat along this path. You typically want to bulk when you have lower body fat (typically, if we were to put numbers to this, 13% for dudes and 20% for the ladies.....roughly.....very very roughly). To put it the other way, if you have higher body fat and are considering a bulk then you might consider doing some sort of cut before otherwise you would not necessarily be happy with the results (read: have more body fat at the end than you might like).
Generally speaking, when you want to "cut" you need to be in a Caloric Deficit. Generally speaking, you need to know your maintenance Caloric intake for that. You then - depending on your goal - reduce that number. So, generally you need to consume 500 Calories a day (or, 3,500 Calories a week) under your maintenance total to loose 1 lbs in that week. You might train heavy and have a high intensity but those two things subside - generally speaking - as you progress into your cut. Your carb intake is going to - generally speaking - be lower in a cut (and your protein is likely going to be a tad bit higher than usual) so training heavy and with intensity becomes a challenge.
A recomp is when you eat at your Maintenance Number but lift heavy. Well, likely heavy for one of the training sessions and then maybe more "hypertrophy" for the other training session that week (assuming that you are doing a body part twice a week....which may or may not be accurate).
If you are "skinny fat" then it might not be a bad idea to do a recomp.
Essentially, when you do a recomp you are doing - at the risk of sounding like a mart kitten - a recomp. You are redistributing your body....adding some muscle and loosing some body fat. Your weight might not change, but your body will look different and your clothes will fit slightly differently. Roughly.....
Does this make sense?
yes, thank you! I want to do a recomp.. didn't know the name.. I think my body fat is around 25%
get a dexa scan or hydrostatic weight thing to see how much body fat you have. it may be lower than you think but it may not be.those things are more accurate than other ways(like calipers and so on)
since I've never been in shape, is it really a "recomp" or should it just be "comp."
2 -
tlanger251 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »tlanger251 wrote: »CWShultz27105 wrote: »So, I might chime in......
There are a couple of concepts involved here.
First and foremost, and I am very much simplifying things, it is "essentially" Calories In vs. Calories Out. So, you have to consume the number of Calories that matches your goal.
Generally speaking, when you want to "bulk" you need to be in a Caloric Surplus. Bulking is lifting heavy and often to gain muscle and strength and eating such that you feed the machine (translation - you are eating a lot of carbs, generally speaking). You are typically lifting heavy (so, think 5 x 5 or 8 x 3 or similar) and your intensity is high (read: you are lifting at weights closer to your 1 Rep Max). You will also gain some body fat along this path. You typically want to bulk when you have lower body fat (typically, if we were to put numbers to this, 13% for dudes and 20% for the ladies.....roughly.....very very roughly). To put it the other way, if you have higher body fat and are considering a bulk then you might consider doing some sort of cut before otherwise you would not necessarily be happy with the results (read: have more body fat at the end than you might like).
Generally speaking, when you want to "cut" you need to be in a Caloric Deficit. Generally speaking, you need to know your maintenance Caloric intake for that. You then - depending on your goal - reduce that number. So, generally you need to consume 500 Calories a day (or, 3,500 Calories a week) under your maintenance total to loose 1 lbs in that week. You might train heavy and have a high intensity but those two things subside - generally speaking - as you progress into your cut. Your carb intake is going to - generally speaking - be lower in a cut (and your protein is likely going to be a tad bit higher than usual) so training heavy and with intensity becomes a challenge.
A recomp is when you eat at your Maintenance Number but lift heavy. Well, likely heavy for one of the training sessions and then maybe more "hypertrophy" for the other training session that week (assuming that you are doing a body part twice a week....which may or may not be accurate).
If you are "skinny fat" then it might not be a bad idea to do a recomp.
Essentially, when you do a recomp you are doing - at the risk of sounding like a mart kitten - a recomp. You are redistributing your body....adding some muscle and loosing some body fat. Your weight might not change, but your body will look different and your clothes will fit slightly differently. Roughly.....
Does this make sense?
yes, thank you! I want to do a recomp.. didn't know the name.. I think my body fat is around 25%
get a dexa scan or hydrostatic weight thing to see how much body fat you have. it may be lower than you think but it may not be.those things are more accurate than other ways(like calipers and so on)
since I've never been in shape, is it really a "recomp" or should it just be "comp."
lol its called a recomp which means recomposition. trust me you will like the results,0 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »tlanger251 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »tlanger251 wrote: »CWShultz27105 wrote: »So, I might chime in......
There are a couple of concepts involved here.
First and foremost, and I am very much simplifying things, it is "essentially" Calories In vs. Calories Out. So, you have to consume the number of Calories that matches your goal.
Generally speaking, when you want to "bulk" you need to be in a Caloric Surplus. Bulking is lifting heavy and often to gain muscle and strength and eating such that you feed the machine (translation - you are eating a lot of carbs, generally speaking). You are typically lifting heavy (so, think 5 x 5 or 8 x 3 or similar) and your intensity is high (read: you are lifting at weights closer to your 1 Rep Max). You will also gain some body fat along this path. You typically want to bulk when you have lower body fat (typically, if we were to put numbers to this, 13% for dudes and 20% for the ladies.....roughly.....very very roughly). To put it the other way, if you have higher body fat and are considering a bulk then you might consider doing some sort of cut before otherwise you would not necessarily be happy with the results (read: have more body fat at the end than you might like).
Generally speaking, when you want to "cut" you need to be in a Caloric Deficit. Generally speaking, you need to know your maintenance Caloric intake for that. You then - depending on your goal - reduce that number. So, generally you need to consume 500 Calories a day (or, 3,500 Calories a week) under your maintenance total to loose 1 lbs in that week. You might train heavy and have a high intensity but those two things subside - generally speaking - as you progress into your cut. Your carb intake is going to - generally speaking - be lower in a cut (and your protein is likely going to be a tad bit higher than usual) so training heavy and with intensity becomes a challenge.
A recomp is when you eat at your Maintenance Number but lift heavy. Well, likely heavy for one of the training sessions and then maybe more "hypertrophy" for the other training session that week (assuming that you are doing a body part twice a week....which may or may not be accurate).
If you are "skinny fat" then it might not be a bad idea to do a recomp.
Essentially, when you do a recomp you are doing - at the risk of sounding like a mart kitten - a recomp. You are redistributing your body....adding some muscle and loosing some body fat. Your weight might not change, but your body will look different and your clothes will fit slightly differently. Roughly.....
Does this make sense?
yes, thank you! I want to do a recomp.. didn't know the name.. I think my body fat is around 25%
get a dexa scan or hydrostatic weight thing to see how much body fat you have. it may be lower than you think but it may not be.those things are more accurate than other ways(like calipers and so on)
since I've never been in shape, is it really a "recomp" or should it just be "comp."
lol its called a recomp which means recomposition. trust me you will like the results,
And as a noob, they are a prime candidate.2 -
A recomp is a "mixing" of a cut (to lower the body fat to a level that would then support a bulk) and a bulk (where you add muscle and body fat). It is slower but it likely spares you the "pleasure" of being hangry for the better part of your cut. You just have to figure out your maintenance caloric intake (likely using a calculator - which is only the starting point) and then playing to find YOUR number.
And, you are most welcome.0 -
CWShultz27105 wrote: »A recomp is a "mixing" of a cut (to lower the body fat to a level that would then support a bulk) and a bulk (where you add muscle and body fat). It is slower but it likely spares you the "pleasure" of being hangry for the better part of your cut. You just have to figure out your maintenance caloric intake (likely using a calculator - which is only the starting point) and then playing to find YOUR number.
And, you are most welcome.
how is it a mixing? if you are eating at maintenance you shouldnt gain fat in a recomp if you do you are in a slight surplus. recomp you eat maintenance calories to lose fat and gain some muscle. a bulk you gain fat along with muscle and a cut you lose fat and may or may not gain muscle depending on several factors including genes.
2 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »CWShultz27105 wrote: »A recomp is a "mixing" of a cut (to lower the body fat to a level that would then support a bulk) and a bulk (where you add muscle and body fat). It is slower but it likely spares you the "pleasure" of being hangry for the better part of your cut. You just have to figure out your maintenance caloric intake (likely using a calculator - which is only the starting point) and then playing to find YOUR number.
And, you are most welcome.
how is it a mixing? if you are eating at maintenance you wont gain fat in a recomp if you do you are in a slight surplus. recomp you eat maintenance calories to lose fat and gain some muscle. a bulk you gain fat along with muscle and a cut you lose fat and may or may not gain muscle depending on several factors including genes.
Technically, during a recomp, you will naturally have days in a surplus and days in a cut. It just so happens overtime, you won't have a net gain or loss impact.1 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »CWShultz27105 wrote: »A recomp is a "mixing" of a cut (to lower the body fat to a level that would then support a bulk) and a bulk (where you add muscle and body fat). It is slower but it likely spares you the "pleasure" of being hangry for the better part of your cut. You just have to figure out your maintenance caloric intake (likely using a calculator - which is only the starting point) and then playing to find YOUR number.
And, you are most welcome.
how is it a mixing? if you are eating at maintenance you wont gain fat in a recomp if you do you are in a slight surplus. recomp you eat maintenance calories to lose fat and gain some muscle. a bulk you gain fat along with muscle and a cut you lose fat and may or may not gain muscle depending on several factors including genes.
Technically, during a recomp, you will naturally have days in a surplus and days in a cut. It just so happens overtime, you won't have a net gain or loss impact.
I get that but it evens out and you should not gain fat correct?1
This discussion has been closed.
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