Serotonin Diet? Losing weight on Ads

cherys · October 2017

Hi

I'd love to meet anyone who is following the Serotonin diet or a similar regime, for weight loss specifically linked to gains from AD medication.

Having been a healthy weight all my life until about 10 years ago when I started taking ADs permanently, my weight's crept up and up each year until I'm now 30lbs overweight. Looking back, I realise that I put on weight in the past each time I was on ADs but as I was well within a healthy weight at that time, I didn't really notice the link.

I've only recently discovered the Serotonin Diet and it seems pretty similar to how I used to eat before I was on ADS and put on weight - a natural desire for low fat, low protein, high complex carbs and veg. It's so unfashionable right now. Everyone is low-carbing and I feel a bit isolated trying to explain that low fat carbs are what I need medically.

Has anyone tried this successfully while still on ADs? I want to come off them eventiually but this year is not a good time, so I want to try, finally, to stick to a diet that's tailored to the probelm of AD weight gain.

It would be brilliant to find some allies in a similar situation and even more brilliant to meet anyone who has successfully lost weight this way.

Thanks

Nony_Mouse · October 2017

I'm assuming AD stands for anti-depressant? The medication itself doesn't magically make you gain weight. What it can do is a) increase your appetite, b) make you less inclined to move (not just exercise, but general day to day movement), or c) both.

All that is required for weight loss is a calorie deficit, how you get there is up to you (though that diet sounds awful to me). Low carb isn't necessary to lose weight, but adequate protein is important, and even more so when you are losing weight so as to limit muscle loss. Adequate fat is also important for absorption of some micronutrients, and for hormonal regulation. You should ideally be aiming for 0.6-0.8g of protein per lb of ideal weight, and 0.35-0.4.5g of fat.

Enter your stats into MFP (which you should have had to do to sign up), select a weekly weight loss target appropriate to you (which at 30 lb overweight would be 1 lb per week), and eat the calories the app tells you to, plus 50-75% of any exercise calories. That's it, no gimmicks required. How you make up those calories is up to you.

Nony_Mouse · October 2017

And now that I've Googled, it's not even designed to address the issue of weight gain from anti-depressants, it's designed to boost your serotonin levels via diet. You could incorporate its principles, presumably, and see if it has any positive affect on mood for you, but to lose weight it's still all about your calorie intake.

cherys · October 2017

'The medication doesn't magically make you gain weight' Nony, your reply is patronising. Have you taken Anti-depressants? I suspect not if you don't even know the shorthand for them. Increasing research shows that the majority of people who had healthy weights and were active prior to medication gain an average of 15lbs on the medication. So, yes, they do make you gain weight. If you know nothing about it, don't jump in with fatuous remarks. I'm looking to meet people with experience of what I'm talking about, not random opinions on it based on attitude but ignorance.

amandacalories · October 2017

cherys wrote: »

'The medication doesn't magically make you gain weight' Nony, your reply is patronising. Have you taken Anti-depressants? I suspect not if you don't even know the shorthand for them. Increasing research shows that the majority of people who had healthy weights and were active prior to medication gain an average of 15lbs on the medication. So, yes, they do make you gain weight. If you know nothing about it, don't jump in with fatuous remarks. I'm looking to meet people with experience of what I'm talking about, not random opinions on it based on attitude but ignorance.

I've taken Prozac, Wellbutrin, seroquel, topmax and many other antidepressants and antipsychotics. I gained weight because I ate more then my body required. I've now lost over 20 pounds by counting calories. The meds have nothing to do with it.

I agree with the above post...some meds made me tired so I didn't move as much, some made me hungry so I ate more.

Nony_Mouse · October 2017

cherys wrote: »

'The medication doesn't magically make you gain weight' Nony, your reply is patronising. Have you taken Anti-depressants? I suspect not if you don't even know the shorthand for them. Increasing research shows that the majority of people who had healthy weights and were active prior to medication gain an average of 15lbs on the medication. So, yes, they do make you gain weight. If you know nothing about it, don't jump in with fatuous remarks. I'm looking to meet people with experience of what I'm talking about, not random opinions on it based on attitude but ignorance.

Yeah, actually, I have taken them, more than once. Starting at age 17 when I was pretty much a basket case of epic proportions. And I gained weight on some of them. Actually what led me to MFP nearly three years ago. I never denied that people gain weight on anti-depressants (which we don't shorthand to AD in my country, fyi). I gained weight because I ate too damn much whilst lying around being unfricking-believably miserable and wishing I was dead.

The fact that your weight is in your control should be a freeing thing. The weight gain sucks, big time, it's like adding insult to injury, but you can do something about it, ie eat fewer calories than you burn. But if you want to just blame the meds and not take responsibility, that's fine.

But thanks for the assumptions.

maffrizzle · October 2017

Nony_Mouse wrote: »

cherys wrote: »

'The medication doesn't magically make you gain weight' Nony, your reply is patronising. Have you taken Anti-depressants? I suspect not if you don't even know the shorthand for them. Increasing research shows that the majority of people who had healthy weights and were active prior to medication gain an average of 15lbs on the medication. So, yes, they do make you gain weight. If you know nothing about it, don't jump in with fatuous remarks. I'm looking to meet people with experience of what I'm talking about, not random opinions on it based on attitude but ignorance.

The fact that your weight is in your control should be a freeing thing. The weight gain sucks, big time, it's like adding insult to injury, but you can do something about it, ie eat fewer calories than you burn. But if you want to just blame the meds and not take responsibility, that's fine.

But thanks for the assumptions.

The fact that person jumped straight down your throat is a little worrying. I totally agree with accepting things are under your control being freeing. One of the reasons I lost so much weight during depression was due to that ability to exercise control helped a lot with my mental state.

When I went on anti-depressants I definitely gained weight, and even more once I was actually in a good place again.

Once I was able to feel a little more control in my life I could do things like pursue other hobbies (instead of just going to the gym), or eat out more (instead of calorie counting). Anti-Depressants can totally make you gain weight, but it's totally a symptom of your changing behaviour, and that's something you can always control.

Lillymoo01 · October 2017

Many antidepressants can make you feel lethargic while increasing your appetite. A recipe for disaster in regards to weight gain. It really means that you need to get up and moving despite the protests your body gives you, while dealing with the fact that you feel hungry when you have really had adequate amounts to eat. Not an easy task but doable. On a positive a good workout can increase endorphins which can help with depression.

I believe you are on the right path not following a low carb diet which can have the side effect of decreasing your serotonin levels and energy levels, which is the last thing you want. Plenty of wholegrain, complex carbs with fruit and vegetables sounds like a great way to go. Like Nono_Mouse suggested, make sure you still get adequate amounts of fats and proteins though. Sticking close to the macros given on MFP should give adequate moderate amounts of both protein and fat.

Good luck. Just continue to believe in yourself and that you can do this.

cherys · October 2017

Except that it isn't that simple. I know calorie reduction and exercise lead to weight loss. Who doesn't know that? Why would anyone think that is advice worth sharing on a post which asks for specific advice on a specific problem. I'm not an imbecile.

The prolonged use of ADs means that phenomenal cravings they trigger, plus the excessive sleepiness - up to 16 hours a day - means it's really hard to kick start a weightloss plan. And that is a direct side effect of medication. And that's why I started a thread to discuss these issues, not to be patronised with the obvious.

Nony I'd be really interested to know how you managed to overcome the urge to overeat and oversleep and lie on sofas all day when you were on them. That's what I'm struggling with.

TavistockToad · October 2017

cherys wrote: »

Except that it isn't that simple. I know calorie reduction and exercise lead to weight loss. Who doesn't know that? Why would anyone think that is advice worth sharing on a post which asks for specific advice on a specific problem. I'm not an imbecile.
.

Around 90-95% of the general population don't seem to know that actually... :laugh:

cherys · October 2017

You know what? I've re-read all the replies here and have to accept that you are all saying teh same thing. So it would be idiotic not to listen to you all. And it is good to hear from people who've managed to lose wieght on medication just by calorie counting as I know lots of people can't and don't.

You're all saying I'm in control. But I don't feel in control. How do you fight off the urge to just sleep and sleep and sleep?

Lillymoo01 · October 2017

How? Push past the lethagy and get moving. Getting out of bed and started is the hardest part when your motivation is low. Eat a lot of vegetables which can be filling. Aim for 8-10 serves a day. Keep telling yourself that if you don't want broccoli or celery to crunch on then you aren't really hungry. Drink plenty of water. Work out which foods are best for your satiety. Most find a good balance of protein and wholegrain carbs does this but others need more fat. Don't keep high sugar, high calorie, empty nutritious foods in the house. Tell yourself that if you want them then you have to walk to the nearest shop to buy them. When you do this walk then buy a single serve only. Play around with meal timing. Do you fill most satisfied with one or two large meals a day or are you better off with satiety eating smaller amounts more often? This is a very individual thing.

cherys · October 2017

Tavistock, we know it. But acting on it is a different thing. How to act on it when you are drugged up to the eyeballs with a medication that makes you just want to eat biscuits and sleep is the specific problem I need to overcome. When I weasn't on drugs, I ate less, moved more very easily. Now I find it impossibly hard. The willpower button in the brain seems to be switched off. It is a specific drug related problem. Has no one else had this issue?

Lillymoo01 · October 2017

By the way, I am not on meds but do suffer depression, anxiety and PTSD. Comfort eating was a huge part of my life before I made huge lifestyle choices. I am now a healthy weigh and in maintenance.

I understand your feelings about not feeling in control. My life always feels like I am out of control. Exercise and watching what I eat is the one thing I feel I have control over.

amandacalories · October 2017

cherys wrote: »

You're all saying I'm in control. But I don't feel in control. How do you fight off the urge to just sleep and sleep and sleep?

Maybe you need to adjust your medications or switch to a new one. If you have a good doctor they will work with you to find a drug that will treat your symptoms and limit your side effects. I also recommend a therapist if you don't have one already.

Seffell · October 2017

How about you start weighting everything you eat and logging it here without reducing your calories? Just to see how it is going in general. And then look for small changes to your diet that you could make to reduce the calories you're currently consuming by a small amount. Don't look to "jumpstart" your diet. Do it easilly.

Nony_Mouse · October 2017

cherys wrote: »

You know what? I've re-read all the replies here and have to accept that you are all saying teh same thing. So it would be idiotic not to listen to you all. And it is good to hear from people who've managed to lose wieght on medication just by calorie counting as I know lots of people can't and don't.

You're all saying I'm in control. But I don't feel in control. How do you fight off the urge to just sleep and sleep and sleep?

That's better.

You start by doing little things. Aiming to do it all at once is just going to overwhelm you. Lilymoo has given you some good suggestions food-wise. I would say do allow yourself some treats, but maybe go with the walking to the shop to get them, and only a single serve, or get a small treat with your weekly shopping. Dark chocolate is wonderful, and good for your brain. Set yourself a goal to do just a little exercise each day, even if you start with walking to the gate and back, then around the block, then two blocks. Hell, your goal some days may just be to get up and showered. I'm also going to recommend yoga (I pretty much recommend yoga for everything). Check out Yoga With Adriene on Youtube, she is awesome, has several practices for stress, anxiety and depression, and a lot of little short 5-15 minute practices. If you have a freezer, meal prep on days that you feel up to it. Then you have things ready to just grab on days you don't feel like cooking.

Mostly, be kind to yourself.

Nony_Mouse · October 2017

cherys wrote: »

Tavistock, we know it. But acting on it is a different thing. How to act on it when you are drugged up to the eyeballs with a medication that makes you just want to eat biscuits and sleep is the specific problem I need to overcome. When I weasn't on drugs, I ate less, moved more very easily. Now I find it impossibly hard. The willpower button in the brain seems to be switched off. It is a specific drug related problem. Has no one else had this issue?

I'd also recommend getting your meds looked at. They're meant to help you feel better, not worse. You're not on Effexor XF, by any chance? Cos yeah, that'll make you feel like a slug. There are many, many anti-depressants to choose from, and it sounds like this is not the one for you.

cherys · October 2017

Nony, I used to do yoga until a few months ago, and loved it. But had to give up temporarily due to work schedule and dind't go back to it. I need to restart. And yes, probably do need to discuss meds. Though I've tried pretty much everything on the market over the years. It's a long term thing, not a blip. Just can't work out if I'd be better off thin, sad and mad as I was before than fat, sluggish and a bit less mad.

VintageFeline · October 2017

I just didn't want to be fat and mental. One set of health problems was quite enough for me to cope with. I started losing whilst on one of the most notorious psychoactive medications for weight gain and lethargy (seroquel). This was at a time the medication wasn't successful in controlling my moods on top of making me want to eat all the things and sleep all the time. I have since come off those meds and am on something else now that mostly doesn't cause any lethargy in and of themselves, my moods dipping does still cause exhaustion.

I just committed. It sounds trite but it really is that simple once the penny drops. Until that happens it absolutely will be a struggle of monumental proportions. When I started it was a small hill I had to get over. I figured out the optimum time I was feeling the most energetic in the day, for me that was after breakfast. So I capitalised on that and got a workout in. After a month or so a habit had formed and for the most part, unless my mood has totally tanked, that habit means I exercise very regularly 2.5 years down the line.

But the number one most important thing needed to lose weight is a calorie deficit. I am suffering quite badly with a bout of depression at the moment (ironically due to a physical health problem) and I am still losing because I am in control of what I put in my mouth.

It's simple but it's not necessarily easy.

cherys · October 2017

Vintage, thank you. That's really resonating. Please, God, not fat AND mad. It's just too much, isn't it? That's right where I am now. No longer 'a bit overweight' but full-on fattest person in the room on most occasions. I have bouts of exercise, but am on a slump now. Need to get back to it. And I do love healthy foods. Love veg etc. Just need to not overeat. It's learning to walk away when your brain is saying, 'I'm still hungry!' even when you know that can't be true. Any tips on how you all do that.

I do appreciate everyone sticking round on this thread, especially Nony, because I was in such a slump when I posted, on not ready to hear anything except, 'Poor you. It's so hard.' But am smiling now. It was definitely the big kick up the backside I needed. So thank you.

Nony_Mouse · October 2017

cherys wrote: »

Nony, I used to do yoga until a few months ago, and loved it. But had to give up temporarily due to work schedule and dind't go back to it. I need to restart. And yes, probably do need to discuss meds. Though I've tried pretty much everything on the market over the years. It's a long term thing, not a blip. Just can't work out if I'd be better off thin, sad and mad as I was before than fat, sluggish and a bit less mad.

Hardest thing is getting back on the mat. Once you do, you'll go 'omg, why haven't I been doing this??'.

cherys · October 2017

Hardest thing is getting back on the mat. Once you do, you'll go 'omg, why haven't I been doing this??'.

Yes. I'm so aware I'll be the fattest person in the room, and yoga is not flatteirng is it, when you are waving your bum in the air for most of the session. But I do love it, and have a good teacher nearby. No excuses.

Nony_Mouse · October 2017

cherys wrote: »

Hardest thing is getting back on the mat. Once you do, you'll go 'omg, why haven't I been doing this??'.

Yes. I'm so aware I'll be the fattest person in the room, and yoga is not flatteirng is it, when you are waving your bum in the air for most of the session. But I do love it, and have a good teacher nearby. No excuses.

Start out by doing some at home if it's easier. Though, having that goal of going to a class would be good for you. And remember, no one will be judging you. That would be very un-yogic!

Nony_Mouse · October 2017

I'm glad we were able to make you smile Cherys

cherys · October 2017

Thank you. You are lovely, staying to give advice when I didn't want to hear it. You've made me grin. And now I'm off for a walk that will easily add up to 10k steps, Had 40g of oats water, fresh apple and cinnamon porridge this morning and not feeling hungry, so I guess that's a start in the right direction. I'll take a look at yoga with adrienne too.

VintageFeline · October 2017

I workout at home, I have exercise induced anxiety/panic attacks (that was fun to work through way back when I started) so going to a gym is just not worth the mental exhaustion and frankly waste of money in how little I'd drag myself there.

With the food thing. Logging kept me in check. I might not always maintain my deficit but I sure as hell don't consistently overeat anymore. Logging is my anchor when it all goes to hell because not today Satan (thanks Bianca), you are not making me fat again brain, no way no how. Not to mention the self esteem boost that comes from looking and feeling better about yourself.

And often, it was psychological hunger, not true hunger. So to begin with, I kept no snacks in the house. I was "allowed" treats but they had to be single serve and bought as a single item. Now I keep 150 calorie on average things in, like crisps/chips, Fibre One bars, small single serve cake bars, that sort of thing. I will also make a hot drink instead of reaching for a snack, it can fill me long enough to stave off the munchies.

It's bloody hard at times but taking control of one of the few things within my power in regards to health is in itself helpful with the depression.

Nony_Mouse · October 2017

cherys wrote: »

Thank you. You are lovely, staying to give advice when I didn't want to hear it. You've made me grin. And now I'm off for a walk that will easily add up to 10k steps, Had 40g of oats water, fresh apple and cinnamon porridge this morning and not feeling hungry, so I guess that's a start in the right direction. I'll take a look at yoga with adrienne too.

See, you've already started!

And, been there, done that. I know the place you're in, how hard and scary it is to take control. But, I also know that even just realising you can results in a mind shift that gets the ball rolling.

Lillymoo01 · October 2017

I am the same as VintageFeline. Going to a gym is way too overwhelming. I walk a lot. Getting out into the fresh air and nature helps my moods. I have a rule that I can only watch Netflix if I am on the treadmill. That is at least 30 minutes for 1 episode of Atypical which is my series of the moment. On a rainy day that makes a few more episodes. I also have resistance bands and some bar bells for a bit of strength training. Not as effective as proper weights but cheap to purchase and better than nothing.

Graelwyn75 · October 2017

I can relate to this. Back in 2014, after a long, long time of just about coping and having reached peak fitness, I decided to try an anti depressant called Cymbalta, aka Duloxetine, because I did still struggle with a lot of anger and it was helping my friend who, like myself, has Asperger's. Anyway, this co-incided with my moving to a new flat and basically, I went from hitting the gym 10-12 hours per week to zilch. I was so tired, so sluggish and basically, nothing seemed to matter at all anymore. I cannot recall what I ate back then although I don't remember specifically eating a lot of junk. I had been on ADs before, but none had ever impacted me this way. I ended up hitting a size I had never been in my life (my first time of being remotely overweight) within a matter of months. I took the step of weaning myself off the medication and have not dared to go back on one since, even though I am struggling immensely with a lot of anger and depression. I just do not want to end up like that again as my physical size has a great impact on how I feel as well.

mitch16 · October 2017

cherys wrote: »

Hardest thing is getting back on the mat. Once you do, you'll go 'omg, why haven't I been doing this??'.

Yes. I'm so aware I'll be the fattest person in the room, and yoga is not flatteirng is it, when you are waving your bum in the air for most of the session. But I do love it, and have a good teacher nearby. No excuses.

Look up Jessamyne Stanley on youtube--there are lots of inspiring large girls doing yoga nowadays. And if you're that self-conscious at your studio, it's time to find a new studio where you feel comfortable.

With respect to you just wanting to sleep--talk to your doctor... Maybe you need a dosage tweak, or maybe you need a different med. Do not--I repeat--do NOT change your dose or stop taking your meds on your own.

(I lost weight when I was on ADs--that was just how my depression manifested itself. Now prednisone--that's another story for me...)

Serotonin Diet? Losing weight on Ads

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