Run: building muscle
YorkApples
Posts: 10 Member
People always say running won't help you to get more muscle, worsely you could lose it. is this true? Won't you get your muscles in your lower body strengthened through running at least? I am confused.
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Replies
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Strength isn't the same as more muscle. Being able to run better isn't a result of gaining muscle in your legs.6
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Running wil improve your circulation, oxigen flow and blood stream. Stamina also. Lower body strenght will not increase based on running.1
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The muscles become adapted to running. Think of a runners physic typically. Lean and small muscle build because they have adapted to be as efficient at running as possible. No point in big muscles, just more weight to move. Not efficient. They are strong but strong to run. But probably can't move much weight in the gym.2
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People always say running won't help you to get more muscle.
In general true but beware "always" (most absolute statements are absolutely false!) - but depends where you are starting from and what kind of running you are doing. A slow plod on level ground is different to sprinting is different to running up hills. But in general you need to progressively overload your muscles to force them to adapt.
worsely you could lose it. is this true?
No - that's a myth put about by people who hate cardio in general or running in particular. A hopelessly inadequate diet (muscle isn't a preferred fuel source) combined with really excessive exercise then yes. The real way to lose muscle is by inactivity - use them or lose them.
Won't you get your muscles in your lower body strengthened through running at least?
To a small degree when starting out from a low base. Remember running is primarily a cardiovascular exercise not a strength exercise.
Align your fitness routine with your goals. If you want to be a better runner and improve your fitness then obviously running fits. If you also want to build strength then add strength training to your routine.
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I have been running for about a year. My legs look more or less the same, just a bit slimmer, but instead of being squishy, they feel very muscular, and my calf muscles are more prominent. The muscles are stronger, obviously, but running only really strengthened my leg muscles. Everything else has been tones through strength training.0
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N=1
I spend no time in the gym. I run. I bike a little. I'm usually in the top 5% of finishers in a 5k.
I can squat 2x my body weight. I can bench about 50% of my body weight. I carry almost no fat on my legs.
But unless you are my brother, I can't tell you how you'll adapt to running.3 -
I have been running for about a year. My legs look more or less the same, just a bit slimmer, but instead of being squishy, they feel very muscular, and my calf muscles are more prominent. The muscles are stronger, obviously, but running only really strengthened my leg muscles. Everything else has been tones through strength training.
They feel muscular, look toned and less squishy because you lost fat... Due to calories8 -
Dwayne Johnson does 45 minutes of cardio every morning before breakfast, then eats and goes to the gym and lifts, Brandon White from Buff Dudes does an hour of fasted cardio every morning also, these are just a couple of examples of people with a lot of muscle that still do conditioning, cardio being catabolic is a myth perpetuated by the lazy.
If you are untrained you will gain some muscle as your body adapts, but you won't get jacked.4 -
FatWithFatness wrote: »Dwayne Johnson does 45 minutes of cardio every morning before breakfast, then eats and goes to the gym and lifts, Brandon White from Buff Dudes does an hour of fasted cardio every morning also, these are just a couple of examples of people with a lot of muscle that still do conditioning, cardio being catabolic is a myth perpetuated by the lazy. .
Not to be the logical-fallacy police, but maybe their lifting counteracts some of the muscle lost from doing fasted cardio, and that they'd be even bigger without cardio.
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Cherimoose wrote: »FatWithFatness wrote: »Dwayne Johnson does 45 minutes of cardio every morning before breakfast, then eats and goes to the gym and lifts, Brandon White from Buff Dudes does an hour of fasted cardio every morning also, these are just a couple of examples of people with a lot of muscle that still do conditioning, cardio being catabolic is a myth perpetuated by the lazy. .
Not to be the logical-fallacy police, but maybe their lifting counteracts some of the muscle lost from doing fasted cardio, and that they'd be even bigger without cardio.
I'm also not sure I'd use Dwayne Johnson as the baseline for MFP scenarios.2 -
Cherimoose wrote: »FatWithFatness wrote: »Dwayne Johnson does 45 minutes of cardio every morning before breakfast, then eats and goes to the gym and lifts, Brandon White from Buff Dudes does an hour of fasted cardio every morning also, these are just a couple of examples of people with a lot of muscle that still do conditioning, cardio being catabolic is a myth perpetuated by the lazy. .
Not to be the logical-fallacy police, but maybe their lifting counteracts some of the muscle lost from doing fasted cardio, and that they'd be even bigger without cardio.
I'm also not sure I'd use Dwayne Johnson as the baseline for MFP scenarios.
.... especially considering he isn't natty.6 -
The best way I can describe it is I feel muscle growth in my legs but I can't really see it as bulk.0
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Cherimoose wrote: »FatWithFatness wrote: »Dwayne Johnson does 45 minutes of cardio every morning before breakfast, then eats and goes to the gym and lifts, Brandon White from Buff Dudes does an hour of fasted cardio every morning also, these are just a couple of examples of people with a lot of muscle that still do conditioning, cardio being catabolic is a myth perpetuated by the lazy. .
Not to be the logical-fallacy police, but maybe their lifting counteracts some of the muscle lost from doing fasted cardio, and that they'd be even bigger without cardio.
https://www.t-nation.com/training/6-muscle-building-myths-debunked
Read #30 -
Cherimoose wrote: »FatWithFatness wrote: »Dwayne Johnson does 45 minutes of cardio every morning before breakfast, then eats and goes to the gym and lifts, Brandon White from Buff Dudes does an hour of fasted cardio every morning also, these are just a couple of examples of people with a lot of muscle that still do conditioning, cardio being catabolic is a myth perpetuated by the lazy. .
Not to be the logical-fallacy police, but maybe their lifting counteracts some of the muscle lost from doing fasted cardio, and that they'd be even bigger without cardio.
I'm also not sure I'd use Dwayne Johnson as the baseline for MFP scenarios.
.... especially considering he isn't natty.
This is fair.0 -
Cherimoose wrote: »FatWithFatness wrote: »Dwayne Johnson does 45 minutes of cardio every morning before breakfast, then eats and goes to the gym and lifts, Brandon White from Buff Dudes does an hour of fasted cardio every morning also, these are just a couple of examples of people with a lot of muscle that still do conditioning, cardio being catabolic is a myth perpetuated by the lazy. .
Not to be the logical-fallacy police, but maybe their lifting counteracts some of the muscle lost from doing fasted cardio, and that they'd be even bigger without cardio.
Why do you think he would lose any muscle from fasted cardio?
He's not exactly undernourished!1 -
Cherimoose wrote: »FatWithFatness wrote: »Dwayne Johnson does 45 minutes of cardio every morning before breakfast, then eats and goes to the gym and lifts, Brandon White from Buff Dudes does an hour of fasted cardio every morning also, these are just a couple of examples of people with a lot of muscle that still do conditioning, cardio being catabolic is a myth perpetuated by the lazy. .
Not to be the logical-fallacy police, but maybe their lifting counteracts some of the muscle lost from doing fasted cardio, and that they'd be even bigger without cardio.
Why do you think he would lose any muscle from fasted cardio?
He's not exactly undernourished!
Fasted cardio is something body builders have been doing for decades, especially leading up to comp. It's just perpetuated laziness.0 -
Running will certainly strengthen your lower back and leg muscles. If you jog only very gently on flat terrain, you will not feel or stimulate your muscles that much, but if you run fast or sprint, and especially if you do so uphill, your legs and lower back muscles will burn quickly enough, and you will strengthen them over time.0
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Some bodybuilders live so intensely that just being awake is cardio. And they never lose gains. *nods*
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YorkApples wrote: »People always say running won't help you to get more muscle, worsely you could lose it. is this true? Won't you get your muscles in your lower body strengthened through running at least? I am confused.
You're not going to build significant volume with running, although as you lose fat you're likely to see increased leg definition. Hill running has some potential to help though, particularly in balancing the effects on front and back of leg. What running will help is leg strength, to a point. Many runners also resistance train as there is benefit to running from that, particularly around both pace and resilience.
You're not going to lose volume from running unless you're also in a deep deficit. Equally a deep deficit is bad for running performance.0 -
tomaattikastike wrote: »Running will certainly strengthen your lower back and leg muscles. If you jog only very gently on flat terrain, you will not feel or stimulate your muscles that much, but if you run fast or sprint, and especially if you do so uphill, your legs and lower back muscles will burn quickly enough, and you will strengthen them over time.
But only to the extent needed to adapt to the relatively low amount of resistance necessary for those activities. It’s not a substitute for resistance training.1 -
FatWithFatness wrote: »Dwayne Johnson does 45 minutes of cardio every morning before breakfast, then eats and goes to the gym and lifts, Brandon White from Buff Dudes does an hour of fasted cardio every morning also, these are just a couple of examples of people with a lot of muscle that still do conditioning, cardio being catabolic is a myth perpetuated by the lazy.
If you are untrained you will gain some muscle as your body adapts, but you won't get jacked.
And I'm pretty confident that Dwayne Johnson is not eating at a caloric deficit except when he may be cutting to look more ripped in a movie.
I suspect that much of the myth of cardio being catabolic comes from the fact that most elite runners tend to have very slight builds but it is probably a chicken and egg situation. They're successful as runners because they're smallish (and worked their *kitten* off training), to lose significant amounts of lean muscle mass you have to be at an extreme caloric deficit for an extended period of time.2 -
@Azdak, I certainly respect your credentials, but if the hill is steep enough, and you run up fast enough, I would say that it can give you a really good strength workout. This video is somewhat comical, but it still illustrates the point. The runner lifts his body by about 2 feet with every step (of course, it is also extremely demanding cardiovascularly):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWGU-PmgVaM 2 -
tomaattikastike wrote: »@Azdak, I certainly respect your credentials, but if the hill is steep enough, and you run up fast enough, I would say that it can give you a really good strength workout. This video is somewhat comical, but it still illustrates the point. The runner lifts his body by about 2 feet with every step (of course, it is also extremely demanding cardiovascularly):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWGU-PmgVaM
Hence his saying that the adaptation is only to the extent needed. You the same in cyclists.....a recreational cyclist riding on relatively flat routes won't see a lot of growth in their quads, train for riding track or extremely hilly courses and it's a whole different story but it's still a case of adaptation based on need.2 -
tomaattikastike wrote: »@Azdak, I certainly respect your credentials, but if the hill is steep enough, and you run up fast enough, I would say that it can give you a really good strength workout. This video is somewhat comical, but it still illustrates the point. The runner lifts his body by about 2 feet with every step (of course, it is also extremely demanding cardiovascularly):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWGU-PmgVaM
Once again, not really. Yes it will increase leg strength at first for someone who does not lift weights. But it is not the same as doing squats, lunges, or any other progressive resistance training exercise. It will make you a better hill runner, and, as you say, it is great for cardio training. But it won’t result in progressively increasing leg strength.
It’s not opinion, or moral judgement against hill running. Specific exercises result in very specific training adaptations. It’s conceivable that someone who doesn’t lift weights could run steps or run hills and feel “stronger” their legs and feel perfectly happy with that. Still doesn’t make it a “strength workout”.
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Cherimoose wrote: »FatWithFatness wrote: »Dwayne Johnson does 45 minutes of cardio every morning before breakfast, then eats and goes to the gym and lifts, Brandon White from Buff Dudes does an hour of fasted cardio every morning also, these are just a couple of examples of people with a lot of muscle that still do conditioning, cardio being catabolic is a myth perpetuated by the lazy. .
Not to be the logical-fallacy police, but maybe their lifting counteracts some of the muscle lost from doing fasted cardio, and that they'd be even bigger without cardio.
Why do you think he would lose any muscle from fasted cardio?
I don't. I was pointing out the weak proof that an activity isn't catabolic since buff lifters do it.
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I would say that trail running can develop the muscles to a degree. Especially stabilizer muscles.2
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Cherimoose wrote: »FatWithFatness wrote: »Dwayne Johnson does 45 minutes of cardio every morning before breakfast, then eats and goes to the gym and lifts, Brandon White from Buff Dudes does an hour of fasted cardio every morning also, these are just a couple of examples of people with a lot of muscle that still do conditioning, cardio being catabolic is a myth perpetuated by the lazy. .
Not to be the logical-fallacy police, but maybe their lifting counteracts some of the muscle lost from doing fasted cardio, and that they'd be even bigger without cardio.
I'm also not sure I'd use Dwayne Johnson as the baseline for MFP scenarios.
.... especially considering he isn't natty.
I'm glad someone said it. The super special "supplements" they take bend the rules a bit.1 -
scorpio516 wrote: »N=1
I spend no time in the gym. I run. I bike a little. I'm usually in the top 5% of finishers in a 5k.
I can squat 2x my body weight. I can bench about 50% of my body weight. I carry almost no fat on my legs.
But unless you are my brother, I can't tell you how you'll adapt to running.
I think you're right that it varies wildly by individual. When I was running a lot in my mid 40s, I used to train fairly hard for a recreational runner (a 19:00 5k in the middle of a 7 mile run was a typical tempo day). I didn't lift at all. I would have struggled to squat 50% of my body weight with good form, but I could probably bench 80% of my weight. Also, I've always been able to do at least 10 chin-ups regardless of training.
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I'm not a high volume runner, but when I run semi- regularly, my squats and lunges get better and when I squat, my runs get better. To me, that's strength improvement.1
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I'm not a high volume runner, but when I run semi- regularly, my squats and lunges get better and when I squat, my runs get better. To me, that's strength improvement.
It's because your slow-twitch endurance muscles can help out your fast-twitch for lifting somewhat, and vice versa I think even more (especially think short increases to intensity like up a short hill at decent pace).
For the running, unless you just plain did nothing and all the muscle atrophied, it's more likely your Central Nervous System is quickly getting accustomed to firing the whole muscle for use.
Much like when you start lifting, many weeks of improvements (beyond finding the right working weight) are nothing more than form improvements allowing more weight, and the whole muscle being used better and better for more weight - that's strength improvements.2
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