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It's All Sugar's Fault
ladyhusker39
Posts: 1,406 Member
in Debate Club
This is what my doctor told me today is the reason people are overweight/obese today. It's a very commonly used explanation on these boards so I wanted to open it up for discussion.
He said that we (I assume he meant Americans, but I guess it could be expanded to Westerners in general) eat about the same number of calories our parents and grandparents used to, but now everything has sugar and unrefined carbohydrates in it. And that's why we're so fat now.
The only sources he cited were a couple of documentaries I eventually got him to admit were the ones on Netflix.
I think this is a load of hooey and had to try hard to keep a straight face and a closed mouth.
But what do you think?
He said that we (I assume he meant Americans, but I guess it could be expanded to Westerners in general) eat about the same number of calories our parents and grandparents used to, but now everything has sugar and unrefined carbohydrates in it. And that's why we're so fat now.
The only sources he cited were a couple of documentaries I eventually got him to admit were the ones on Netflix.
I think this is a load of hooey and had to try hard to keep a straight face and a closed mouth.
But what do you think?
15
Replies
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Full of crap. Ask him to stick to what he knows and learned in medical school, and to stop watching stupid documentaries.27
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Calling @mmapags as I think he had that nifty sugar consumption vs obesity graph I saw recently.
I think it's wilful ignorance to assert we eat the same and even if we did our daily activity levels are significantly lower with household gadgets and cars and machinery taking up much of the physical load we'd have exerted ourselves daily.17 -
VintageFeline wrote: »Calling @mmapags as I think he had that nifty sugar consumption vs obesity graph I saw recently.
I think it's wilful ignorance to assert we eat the same and even if we did our daily activity levels are significantly lower with household gadgets and cars and machinery taking up much of the physical load we'd have exerted ourselves daily.
It was @anvilhead2. I just loved it. Let me see if I can find the thread it was in. But basically, for the past 5 years or so, sugar consumption has dropped markedly and the obesity line kept growing.6 -
Your doctor is wrong.12
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This proves that doctors are as clueless about nutrition and weight loss as the general populace.15
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Here is another neat one, from USDA data. Americans are eating more total calories, more added fats, and more flours/cereals than their parents and grandparents:
Source: http://geeksta.net/visualizations/calories-us/14 -
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Here is another neat one, from USDA data. Americans are eating more total calories, more added fats, and more flours/cereals than their parents and grandparents:
Source: http://geeksta.net/visualizations/calories-us/
Great graph. When he said we eat about the same number of calories I thought that was crazy and I wouldn't have luck having a real discussion about it.
What's funnier still is that I was there today to get a referral for a MRI of my shoulder because I have a rotator cuff injury that's taking a while to heal. I have no idea what that has to do with my diet. I've lost 35lbs this year btw. But every time I go in he seems to need to tell me how I should change my eating or take weight loss pills.6 -
It seems like that colored graph is all kinds of wonky to me. Average daily for all Americans? Kids and adults? Must be.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. I go through a LOT of sugar feeding the wild hummingbirds. Like between a cup and a half to three cups per week. I don't use granulated cane sugar for anything at home besides that.
I don't see hummingbirds represented.
I do agree that grains are a problem in my life. They're so easy and so high cal, and they make me want moar.6 -
cmriverside wrote: »It seems like that colored graph is all kinds of wonky to me. Average daily for all Americans? Kids and adults? Must be.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. I go through a LOT of sugar feeding the wild hummingbirds. Like between a cup and a half to three cups per week. I don't use granulated cane sugar for anything at home besides that.
I don't see hummingbirds represented.
I do agree that grains are a problem in my life. They're so easy and so high cal, and they make me want moar.
It is from USDA per capita data sets, so that includes all Americans:
https://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/food-availability-per-capita-data-system/loss-adjusted-food-availability-documentation/
They didn't normalize for hummingbird feeding, but this is probably some of the most accurate data you are going to be able to compile on the subject at a national level.1 -
Question. Who puts these graphs together?? And how are they getting their data???? By asking people?? News flash. Over weight people tend to lie (or just don't know) about how much they eat. How can carb consumption be down when walk into any major super market and the whole place outside of two depts are full of carbs??? Look at all the prepared food they sell now. No one cooks. Oh the people in shape do. But most obese people are not cooking. I promise you that they are consuming tons of carbs in most cases. Just look at people's carts in supermarkets. Yes sugar alone does not cause you to get fat. True statement. But it ain't Making you lose either.43
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Question. Who puts these graphs together?? And how are they getting their data???? By asking people?? News flash. Over weight people tend to lie (or just don't know) about how much they eat. How can carb consumption be down when walk into any major super market and the whole place outside of two depts are full of carbs??? Look at all the prepared food they sell now. No one cooks. Oh the people in shape do. But most obese people are not cooking. I promise you that they are consuming tons of carbs in most cases. Just look at people's carts in supermarkets. Yes sugar alone does not cause you to get fat. True statement. But it ain't Making you lose either.
Holy generalisation batman. The irony is you pooh-poohing actual research while spouting completely unsubstantiated statements is fascinating.34 -
Question. Who puts these graphs together?? And how are they getting their data???? By asking people?? News flash. Over weight people tend to lie (or just don't know) about how much they eat. How can carb consumption be down when walk into any major super market and the whole place outside of two depts are full of carbs??? Look at all the prepared food they sell now. No one cooks. Oh the people in shape do. But most obese people are not cooking. I promise you that they are consuming tons of carbs in most cases. Just look at people's carts in supermarkets. Yes sugar alone does not cause you to get fat. True statement. But it ain't Making you lose either.
No food "makes" us lose anything. I personally eat 50+% carbs daily while losing and that includes sugah.
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Question. Who puts these graphs together?? And how are they getting their data???? By asking people?? News flash. Over weight people tend to lie (or just don't know) about how much they eat. How can carb consumption be down when walk into any major super market and the whole place outside of two depts are full of carbs??? Look at all the prepared food they sell now. No one cooks. Oh the people in shape do. But most obese people are not cooking. I promise you that they are consuming tons of carbs in most cases. Just look at people's carts in supermarkets. Yes sugar alone does not cause you to get fat. True statement. But it ain't Making you lose either.
Just because carbs are in demand and popular in the grocery store doesn't mean carbs make you fat. The important word in your statement is "tons". People eat too much and they don't burn it off. It's really not carbs per say. I do think it's easier to overeat carbs than either protein or fat but again, it's not carbs that make you fat. It's taking in more than you work off.8 -
I think you should trust your doctor on medical questions like do you have a cold out the flu, etc. But why people get fat or what horse to bet on, your doctor's opinion isn't any better than anyone else's.7
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Question. Who puts these graphs together??
The carb chart says on it: Stephan Guyenet. http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2015/11/carbohydrate-sugar-and-obesity-in.html
Many packaged products (especially so called junk food) are high in refined carbs (not only sugar or necessarily sugar) AND ALSO fat, and of course fast food is high in fat. This idea that it's all about sugar is so silly. Do Americans consume too much added sugar and refined carbs and added fat and too few vegetables and fruit and, probably, whole grains and fish (vs. other kinds of meat) on average? IMO, yes, but that's not why we are fat.
And I am someone who cooked from whole food most nights (including vegetables, which I learned to enjoy when growing up and consider an intrinsic part of a meal) when gaining weight and who never ate many of the stereotypical fat people foods (I rarely go into those areas of the supermarket because they don't interest me, eat more ice cream since deciding to lose weight, and dislike most fast food). That I was fat didn't make me not an annoying food snob or not vain about my cooking skills, heh! On the other hand, I have always been thin co-workers who have microwaveable meals (Lean Cuisine or whatever) or buy lunch daily. (I have no reason to think they don't also cook, of course.)10 -
Question. Who puts these graphs together?? And how are they getting their data???? By asking people?? News flash. Over weight people tend to lie (or just don't know) about how much they eat. How can carb consumption be down when walk into any major super market and the whole place outside of two depts are full of carbs??? Look at all the prepared food they sell now. No one cooks. Oh the people in shape do. But most obese people are not cooking. I promise you that they are consuming tons of carbs in most cases. Just look at people's carts in supermarkets. Yes sugar alone does not cause you to get fat. True statement. But it ain't Making you lose either.
I got up to 254 lbs on a mix of home-cooking and convenience foods. I'm now down to 165.2 on a mix of home-cooking and convenience foods. Apart from portion control, the major changes I made?- I stopped buying a couple of my favorite vegetable dips that I find impossible to moderate
- Limited my 'substantial' (i.e. containing beans, quinoa, or other non-low-cal-veggie ingredient) salads to one per meal
- Resolved to only make desserts that come in at 200 calories or fewer per serving
I eat 50% carbs and have pretty much for the past year. No clue what my macros were before MFP.
Let's not generalize or demonize okay?17 -
Get a different doctor.1
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ladyhusker39 wrote: »Here is another neat one, from USDA data. Americans are eating more total calories, more added fats, and more flours/cereals than their parents and grandparents:
Source: http://geeksta.net/visualizations/calories-us/
Great graph. When he said we eat about the same number of calories I thought that was crazy and I wouldn't have luck having a real discussion about it.
What's funnier still is that I was there today to get a referral for a MRI of my shoulder because I have a rotator cuff injury that's taking a while to heal. I have no idea what that has to do with my diet. I've lost 35lbs this year btw. But every time I go in he seems to need to tell me how I should change my eating or take weight loss pills.
if he is pushing weight loss pills I would find another dr to be honest. weight loss pills can be dangerous and come with lots of side effects,although all things can have side effects.pushing weight loss pills instead of diet and exercise is a red flag to me.9 -
ladyhusker39 wrote: »This is what my doctor told me today is the reason people are overweight/obese today. It's a very commonly used explanation on these boards so I wanted to open it up for discussion.
He said that we (I assume he meant Americans, but I guess it could be expanded to Westerners in general) eat about the same number of calories our parents and grandparents used to, but now everything has sugar and unrefined carbohydrates in it. And that's why we're so fat now.
The only sources he cited were a couple of documentaries I eventually got him to admit were the ones on Netflix.
I think this is a load of hooey and had to try hard to keep a straight face and a closed mouth.
But what do you think?
@ladyhusker39 You could give it a try if you wish. On a hunch I cut out added sugar and all forms of all grains and eat all that I want now. I am down 50 pounds and most of my pain and have maintained the loss for over two years now.
When I eat over 50 grams of carbs for a few days I am back to eating the legs off of the table.
Some people seem to do fine with sugar but that was not so in my case. Key is to recover our health the way that works best for each of us because we are not all the same.26 -
Sugar is a part of why some people over eat. We aren't fat because we eat the same calories as slimmer ancestors though, it is because we ate more.
I tend to overeat sugar and refined carbs. That was why I gained weight. If I overate meats and eggs, I would still have gained weight. Calories are why we get fat. Some find that sugar leads to eating too many calories...
Now health, on the other hand, can be affected by macros. That's another story.
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ladyhusker39 wrote: »This is what my doctor told me today is the reason people are overweight/obese today. It's a very commonly used explanation on these boards so I wanted to open it up for discussion.
He said that we (I assume he meant Americans, but I guess it could be expanded to Westerners in general) eat about the same number of calories our parents and grandparents used to, but now everything has sugar and unrefined carbohydrates in it. And that's why we're so fat now.
The only sources he cited were a couple of documentaries I eventually got him to admit were the ones on Netflix.
I think this is a load of hooey and had to try hard to keep a straight face and a closed mouth.
But what do you think?
My grandmother, born in 1930, was the biggest sugar advocate I knew - she gave her grand-kids a proper talking to when we quit putting sugar in our tea. He reasoning was 'sugar gives you energy, you'll end up fat without it!'
Although her scientific reasoning on this may have been slightly flawed, the point is that she never shied away from sugar in her life, and probably spent most of her life a little underweight...because she didn't eat enough calories despite a high sugar/fat diet .
Having said that - her influence when I was younger initiated a sugar craving monster within me - and unfortunately I was not blessed with the same sparrow like appetite as my grandmother! If I woke up tomorrow hating the taste of anything sweet, dropping weight would be the easiest thing in the world for me!8 -
It were great if there were a quick fix. My doctor told me I was drinking too much juice. I had half a glass with my breakfast every morning.
I did not get to be overweight because of juice. I showed patience. I'm living this life so nobody knows better how it happens. Hubby knows too, because he's a witness.0 -
I think it might be a bit short sighted to look at sugar as a lone culprit in obesity.
I'd suggest it might be more closely related to a combination of the increased consumption of refined carbohydrates (cereals, grains, processed foods), excessive industrial oils (industrial fats used in processed foods), in combination with a more sedentary lifestyle in general.
Eating whole foods (grown in the earth, or from something that eats those things) and getting some fresh air and exercise, seems like reasonable and non-hysterical advice for feeling well and managing one's body composition.7 -
PrimalForLife wrote: »I think it might be a bit short sighted to look at sugar as a lone culprit in obesity.
I'd suggest it might be more closely related to a combination of the increased consumption of refined carbohydrates (cereals, grains, processed foods), excessive industrial oils (industrial fats used in processed foods), in combination with a more sedentary lifestyle in general.
Eating whole foods (grown in the earth, or from something that eats those things) and getting some fresh air and exercise, seems like reasonable and non-hysterical advice for feeling well and managing one's body composition.
I can eat my way to obesity on cheese from grass-fed cows. It wouldn't even be hard. It doesn't matter where the calories come from; if you eat too many of them, you'll get fat.17 -
So wrong and so frustrating, at least you are educated enough to know hes wrong. I always feel bad for people who are still learning and they hear crap like that.4
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PrimalForLife wrote: »I think it might be a bit short sighted to look at sugar as a lone culprit in obesity.
I'd suggest it might be more closely related to a combination of the increased consumption of refined carbohydrates (cereals, grains, processed foods), excessive industrial oils (industrial fats used in processed foods), in combination with a more sedentary lifestyle in general.
Eating whole foods (grown in the earth, or from something that eats those things) and getting some fresh air and exercise, seems like reasonable and non-hysterical advice for feeling well and managing one's body composition.
I can eat my way to obesity on cheese from grass-fed cows. It wouldn't even be hard. It doesn't matter where the calories come from; if you eat too many of them, you'll get fat.
I did eat my way to obesity with a lot of great quality meat, cheese, veg, grains, whole grains etc etc etc. With some sides of cheesecake and chocolate (savoury foods are my main downfall really). Being a lazy toad for a number of years didn't help but I wasn't sedentary either given the amount of walking you do just commuting round London walking through tube stations and such. Still fat.6 -
It's a load of hooey. NO WAY we are eating the same number of calories. Look at portion sizes for McDonald's meals when they first started out - soft drinks were 7 oz.
https://www.eater.com/2015/9/9/9297609/mcdonalds-sizes-growth-since-1955
Add to that we move much much less than our grandparents. More of them had active jobs.4 -
No...
First off, I highly doubt people now are eating the same calories as our partents and grandparent. For one, my parents and grandparents typically cooked at home...usually from scratch and eating out and such was a special occasion kind of thing. Eating out now is a pretty regular thing for a lot of people and portions presented at restaurants are significantly larger than they used to be...ergo, more calories. Large restaurant portions have also skewed people's perception of portions at home as well...before I lost weight I used to have massive portions of food on my plate and go back for seconds.
My parents and grandparents also ate 3 squares per day...I don't recall much, if any snacking...it seems now days people have to have some kind of snack every couple hours or they think they're going to keel over and die.
There are a lot more high calorie, low nutrient processed foods available these days...which may be where some of the sugar argument comes in, but it's not the sugar in and of itself...it's that the product is of low nutrient quality, not particularly filling, and high calorie making it really easy to pack away the calories.
I don't recall a time when my grandma or mom didn't have fresh baked cookies or other sweets and deserts readily available.
My grandparents and my parents moved a lot more than we do now...even if they had a desk job, they still had to do a lot more things manually. I remember my grandpa watering the yard every evening by hand...my dad used a sprinkler, but he still had to go out and move it around. Mine is set to a timer and I don't have to do a damn thing with it...I don't even know it's there unless I happen to be home when they come on.10
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