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Should we use the original names for our mountains...?
NorthCascades
Posts: 10,968 Member
The feds set a precedent in 2015 by renaming Mount McKinley to Denali. This is also a special case, as nobody actually referred to the mountain as McKinley, the official name was changed to reflect how people already referrred to the mountain.
There's a debate locally about following this lead with other mountains. Rainier would be Tahoma; Baker would be Komo Kulshun.
Many of these peaks were named for British generals, some of whom fought against America, many of whom never set foot here.
Of course we would have to make an exception for everything named by Lage Wernstedt: Mounts Fury, Terror, Despair, but also Inspiration, and Challenger, Phantom, Sinister, etc. These names are just too cool to give up. I don't think most of his peaks had original names, though.
There's a debate locally about following this lead with other mountains. Rainier would be Tahoma; Baker would be Komo Kulshun.
Many of these peaks were named for British generals, some of whom fought against America, many of whom never set foot here.
Of course we would have to make an exception for everything named by Lage Wernstedt: Mounts Fury, Terror, Despair, but also Inspiration, and Challenger, Phantom, Sinister, etc. These names are just too cool to give up. I don't think most of his peaks had original names, though.
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In Australia, there has been a move to go back to the indigenous names for landmarks. Most notable, Ayers Rock (named for the Chief Secretaury of one of the states) was officially reverted to its indigenous name of Ularu, but it's happening all over. I think it's respectful.3
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The town of Gay Head on Martha's Vineyard opted to go back to its native name, Aquinnah, back in 1997. Can't imagine why...9
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I like it.
I also like the trend in Seattle and surrounds to get away from numbered streets and go back to the original names.
One of the streets near me went from 180th to "Lazy Husband Drive."
Maybe not so First Nation of us, but hey!3 -
Being from Scotland our mountains have their original Gaelic names, same with most of the Highlands really. Just good luck with pronouncing them, there's a lot I can't do! And I think even when they are changed to be more "English" they retain part of their original name.
But yeah, seems like a sensible way to give indigenous peoples at least some of their history back.2 -
There has been talk of renaming many of the landmark features in Yellowstone National Park because of the insensitivity of some names to Native Americans. Like Hayden Valley, where most of the buffalo hang out shouldn't be named after someone who promoted annihilation of the natives. Hayden was a geologist who explored much of the park (and was probably lucky to retain his scalp in the process). Yes, I understand how it could be offensive, but we shouldn't rewrite history because that history is offensive to some. Many of our local names have been changed, anything with "Squaw" in it became something different. Crazy Woman Creek in Wyoming, I'm sure there's a story there that offends someone!
And the the Grand Teton...won't touch that one! It's a slippery slope that has no end if we choose to navigate it. 2 -
@Rocknut53
What do you think of the argument that a lot of the big peaks here are named for British generals who killed American soldiers during the Revolutionary War?0 -
There has been talk of renaming many of the landmark features in Yellowstone National Park because of the insensitivity of some names to Native Americans. Like Hayden Valley, where most of the buffalo hang out shouldn't be named after someone who promoted annihilation of the natives. Hayden was a geologist who explored much of the park (and was probably lucky to retain his scalp in the process). Yes, I understand how it could be offensive, but we shouldn't rewrite history because that history is offensive to some. Many of our local names have been changed, anything with "Squaw" in it became something different. Crazy Woman Creek in Wyoming, I'm sure there's a story there that offends someone! And the the Grand Teton...won't touch that one! It's a slippery slope that has no end if we choose to navigate it.
But, didn't history get rewritten when they were given those names a few hundred years ago? Up until then, they'd been named something else.7 -
I think the original names are much better.2
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But... wouldn't using the names indigenous people gave mountains be cultural appropriation? I wouldn't risk it...5
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Hmmm I'm thinking about this.
I like the familiarity of the names I have got to know, and have a hard time with a lot of the PNW native pronunciation, but at the same time, the Queen Charlotte Islands are happily back to Haida Gwaii, so why not mountains (in Canada).
Hmmmm? h.
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The process is already begun. I expect it's inevitable at this point, particularly with the proliferation of grievance politics.
For example, in Minnesota they're renaming Lake Calhoun (named for the Vice President, 1825 to 1832, under John Quincy Adams & Andrew Jackson) due to Calhoun's advocacy of slavery. The name is now Bde Maka Ska, a name conferred by the Dakota. It is speculated that they took the name from the Ioway when they moved into the area and pushed the Ioway out. Kind of ironic to me that we're unnaming things because colonialization was bad, but putting names into a language that was itself a colonizer.
Many locations are called different things by different tribal traditions because the languages are often different and more than one tribe/tribal group would inhabit an area simultaneously. So there is a degree of debate even about how to "revert" names even when there is some consensus to remove European names from things. Politics and history alike are strange.
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NorthCascades wrote: »@Rocknut53
What do you think of the argument that a lot of the big peaks here are named for British generals who killed American soldiers during the Revolutionary War?
Does it really matter? I think in these days of political correctness people complain too much about too many things. Why not use these names to enhance our knowledge of the history, keeping the bad along with the good? It's not like we can or should go back and start over with a clean slate. Like @tomteboda said, "Politics and history alike are strange."3 -
I personally think Kulshun is a better name than Baker. And a gorgeous place like that deserves a good name.
But I think we should keep all the names Lage bestowed because they're awesome.
I also think we should do this with the popular names for lakes in the Enchantments. Tranquil Lake should officially be Freya, Inspiration should be Brynhild, etc, because that's what everyone already calls them. Like with Denali.2 -
If they really wanted to go original, try reverting back to the tribal era. A name is a name. I could care less what these places are called. Our children's children will probably rename them anyways.1
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MinuitMinuet wrote: »If they really wanted to go original, try reverting back to the tribal era. A name is a name. I could care less what these places are called. Our children's children will probably rename them anyways.
um.
did you read the thread?3 -
Not all mountains and other geographic features had aboriginal names or we don't know what they are.0
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cmriverside wrote: »MinuitMinuet wrote: »If they really wanted to go original, try reverting back to the tribal era. A name is a name. I could care less what these places are called. Our children's children will probably rename them anyways.
um.
did you read the thread?
"Should we use the original names for our mountains....?"
"The feds set a precedent in 2015 by renaming Mount McKinley to Denali. This is also a special case, as nobody actually referred to the mountain as McKinley, the official name was changed to reflect how people already referrred to the mountain.
There's a debate locally about following this lead with other mountains. Rainier would be Tahoma; Baker would be Komo Kulshun.
Many of these peaks were named for British generals, some of whom fought against America, many of whom never set foot here.
Of course we would have to make an exception for everything named by Lage Wernstedt: Mounts Fury, Terror, Despair, but also Inspiration, and Challenger, Phantom, Sinister, etc. These names are just too cool to give up. I don't think most of his peaks had original names, though."
Yes. Did I misunderstand the question of should we? My answer could be what's being misunderstood. I'm not always clear with my meaning. I'll try again.
Eh, they will only get changed by our legacies anyways.0 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »In Australia, there has been a move to go back to the indigenous names for landmarks. Most notable, Ayers Rock (named for the Chief Secretaury of one of the states) was officially reverted to its indigenous name of Ularu, but it's happening all over. I think it's respectful.
I think you'll find it's Uluru.0 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »In Australia, there has been a move to go back to the indigenous names for landmarks. Most notable, Ayers Rock (named for the Chief Secretaury of one of the states) was officially reverted to its indigenous name of Ularu, but it's happening all over. I think it's respectful.
I think you'll find it's Uluru.
Pardon my typo.0 -
good talk.....not what I expected in health and fitness but hey, its interesting0
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And what this question have to do with health and fitness? Me thinks that this question should be in the chit-chat section.0
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Alatariel75 wrote: »There has been talk of renaming many of the landmark features in Yellowstone National Park because of the insensitivity of some names to Native Americans. Like Hayden Valley, where most of the buffalo hang out shouldn't be named after someone who promoted annihilation of the natives. Hayden was a geologist who explored much of the park (and was probably lucky to retain his scalp in the process). Yes, I understand how it could be offensive, but we shouldn't rewrite history because that history is offensive to some. Many of our local names have been changed, anything with "Squaw" in it became something different. Crazy Woman Creek in Wyoming, I'm sure there's a story there that offends someone! And the the Grand Teton...won't touch that one! It's a slippery slope that has no end if we choose to navigate it.
But, didn't history get rewritten when they were given those names a few hundred years ago? Up until then, they'd been named something else.
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NorthCascades wrote: »@Rocknut53
What do you think of the argument that a lot of the big peaks here are named for British generals who killed American soldiers during the Revolutionary War?
Does it really matter? I think in these days of political correctness people complain too much about too many things. Why not use these names to enhance our knowledge of the history, keeping the bad along with the good? It's not like we can or should go back and start over with a clean slate. Like @tomteboda said, "Politics and history alike are strange."
Yes I think it matters and I support changes here like Ayers Rock reverting to Uluru.
And, no, I don't see it as political correctness or too much complaining - one could see that in reverse - those objecting are doing too much complaining.
I think it is better to use those names to enhance acknowledgment of original owners of the land and their culture rather than history of the invading people - history doesn't just start from the beginning of invasion, you know.
And,no, of course we can't just re start with a clean slate - but I don't see that as an argument for doing nothing to acknowledge and restore original names or any other form of original culture or land rights.
And to the poster who was worried about cultural appropriation - that is more when people take over something in an inappropriate and mocking or imitation way - eg dress ups of native attire.
All the changed names, in Australia anyway, are done with consultation and consent of the indiginous people of the area.
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Our local Mt. Diablo was surrounded by a number of indigenous peoples before the Spanish arrived, and had several different names depending on the language spoken. There's a perennial push by one individual to get the mountain renamed (he's offended by the diablo reference), and he's suggested various names, including Yahweh, Kawukum (a made-up name from the 1800's) and Reagan. I know you'll be shocked to hear that the United States Board of Geographic Names finds no compelling reason to make any changes.
If they ever do find reason to make a change, I would like to see it revert to the Ohlone name, Tuyshtak, meaning "at the dawn of time".
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The process is already begun. I expect it's inevitable at this point, particularly with the proliferation of grievance politics.
For example, in Minnesota they're renaming Lake Calhoun (named for the Vice President, 1825 to 1832, under John Quincy Adams & Andrew Jackson) due to Calhoun's advocacy of slavery. The name is now Bde Maka Ska, a name conferred by the Dakota. It is speculated that they took the name from the Ioway when they moved into the area and pushed the Ioway out. Kind of ironic to me that we're unnaming things because colonialization was bad, but putting names into a language that was itself a colonizer.
Many locations are called different things by different tribal traditions because the languages are often different and more than one tribe/tribal group would inhabit an area simultaneously. So there is a degree of debate even about how to "revert" names even when there is some consensus to remove European names from things. Politics and history alike are strange.
I agree with this. I don't care, but care just enough to point out the hypocrisy involved.
I've never understood the benefit of passing judgement on the past based on the present moral interpretation.
I have several guide books and there's about a 50% break in the reference name Denali/Mt. McKinley. The information within the book remains the same regardless of what people refer to it.1 -
What does this has to do with health and fitness?2
This discussion has been closed.
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