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Should junk food be taxed?
Replies
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svetskisampion wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »Janejellyroll asked me for evidence as to what food consumption has a link to burdens on health services. My reply was think diabetes, not "diabetes is caused by sugar". The intake of unhealthy foods has a serious burden on health services due to the wide range of issues they create, to think otherwise is like saying alcohol has no burden on the health services. What you eat plays a big role in how your heart functions, how your blood sugar spikes, the impact on your stomach, mental fatigue, there are numerous studies on this in the UK and sugar has been identified to be the greatest cause of this.
If diabetes isn't caused by sugar, then what is the connection to food consumption?
Give a diabetic two spoons of sugar and we'll see the correlation. There are so many foods out there with hidden sugars which are the cause for so many health issues. If you think sugars and processed foods are not the leading cause for the health epidemics in the western world, you are entitled to that opinion. However I strongly believe what you shovel down your throat has the greater impact and I stand by that whole heartedly.
If you give someone who already has diabetes two spoonfuls of sugar, of course you're going to see a certain result.
But you seem to be arguing something different -- that sugar actually causes people to develop health problems, even if they are within a healthy weight. What evidence do you have for that?
How did you determine that "hidden sugars" (which aren't a thing in the US, by the way, we have ingredient labels on our foods) cause health problems and that it isn't excess weight?
You can stand by your opinion all you want, that's your right. I'm asking if you have any evidence to support that opinion that you can share with the rest of us.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/8514091/Junk-food-Britain-costs-the-NHS-more-than-cigarettes-or-alcohol.html
That article is about obesity. Again, do you have any evidence to support the claims you've made?1 -
svetskisampion wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »Janejellyroll asked me for evidence as to what food consumption has a link to burdens on health services. My reply was think diabetes, not "diabetes is caused by sugar". The intake of unhealthy foods has a serious burden on health services due to the wide range of issues they create, to think otherwise is like saying alcohol has no burden on the health services. What you eat plays a big role in how your heart functions, how your blood sugar spikes, the impact on your stomach, mental fatigue, there are numerous studies on this in the UK and sugar has been identified to be the greatest cause of this.
If diabetes isn't caused by sugar, then what is the connection to food consumption?
Give a diabetic two spoons of sugar and we'll see the correlation. There are so many foods out there with hidden sugars which are the cause for so many health issues. If you think sugars and processed foods are not the leading cause for the health epidemics in the western world, you are entitled to that opinion. However I strongly believe what you shovel down your throat has the greater impact and I stand by that whole heartedly.
I see this 'hidden sugar' demon quoted a lot, but I don't understand where it comes from. Here in the US, the food label must contain the total amount of sugars that a given food serving contains (don't know if this is true in the UK or not), so where exactly is the sugar hiding? I know the ingredients may not say 'sugar', but the nutrition information still has the total sugars, so again, where is it hiding? And as an added bonus, sometime either this year or next, the food label will have to specify the ADDED sugars and not just the total sugar.
I don't think anyone is arguing that the quantity of food that you shovel down your throat is the leading cause of problems, just that foods in general should not be demonized because no single food is the cause of all the health issues (including sugar).
I understand your confusion. The term hidden sugars in the UK is used as a term for added sugar. So for example, healthy fruit juices have "hidden sugar". We too have the labelling, yet it is the distinction between natural sugars and these "hidden sugars" which is the main concern.
You refer to something as "hidden" when it's listed in the ingredients? Is there an alternate meaning to "hidden" that I'm not aware of?1 -
3dogsrunning wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Isn't candy already taxable? Could have sworn I payed tax on my candy bar the last time I purchased one....but not all candy is junk food either....what about Dark Chocolate? Sweetened drinks, why sweetened? Would that include sweet tea, lemonade, milk, chocolate milk? ----Can't find any redeeming quality about chips except they are yummy...lol
That's what I was thinking - "junk food" is already taxed.
No junk food is taxed like any other food like lettuce, apples, etc in most states. I'd assume the op is talking about something more than the regular sales tax.
Where I am (in Canada) food like lettuce, apples,etc are not taxed. Candy bars, chips etc. are.
That seems to make sense - real food (like produce) should be the easiest to acquire from an economic standpoint, IMO.0 -
PrimalForLife wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Isn't candy already taxable? Could have sworn I payed tax on my candy bar the last time I purchased one....but not all candy is junk food either....what about Dark Chocolate? Sweetened drinks, why sweetened? Would that include sweet tea, lemonade, milk, chocolate milk? ----Can't find any redeeming quality about chips except they are yummy...lol
That's what I was thinking - "junk food" is already taxed.
No junk food is taxed like any other food like lettuce, apples, etc in most states. I'd assume the op is talking about something more than the regular sales tax.
Where I am (in Canada) food like lettuce, apples,etc are not taxed. Candy bars, chips etc. are.
That seems to make sense - real food (like produce) should be the easiest to acquire from an economic standpoint, IMO.
Making it cheaper doesn't always increase availability in a given place though. That depends on the local demand. For instance, I never realised broccoli could wilt until I moved here, and the produce sections are much smaller in the big shops. They're basically non existent in the smaller convenience shops. That's quite different to where I grew up. If it's wanted, someone will sell it...0 -
The term hidden in this sense relates to an item one would consider a healthy option. The sugar in this is thus, hidden.0
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svetskisampion wrote: »The term hidden in this sense relates to an item one would consider a healthy option. The sugar in this is thus, hidden.
Can you provide some examples?0 -
svetskisampion wrote: »The term hidden in this sense relates to an item one would consider a healthy option. The sugar in this is thus, hidden.
The term "hidden", in any sense, relates to something that is concealed or deliberately difficult to detect. Just because people assume that something is "healthy" and therefore won't have added sugar does not make anything "hidden", particularly when it is right there on the label.
Even when a product does not have a label, it doesn't make added sugar "hidden". It's an ingredient. Any cook worth their salt (or sugar) knows that sugar is added to a vast amount of dishes, and has been for a very long time, even savoury dishes. Doesn't make it hidden.
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Alatariel75 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »The term hidden in this sense relates to an item one would consider a healthy option. The sugar in this is thus, hidden.
The term "hidden", in any sense, relates to something that is concealed or deliberately difficult to detect. Just because people assume that something is "healthy" and therefore won't have added sugar does not make anything "hidden", particularly when it is right there on the label.
Even when a product does not have a label, it doesn't make added sugar "hidden". It's an ingredient. Any cook worth their salt (or sugar) knows that sugar is added to a vast amount of dishes, and has been for a very long time, even savoury dishes. Doesn't make it hidden.
Jesus Christ, it's the terminology used in the UK - so yes, where I'm from, it's hidden sugar.0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »The term hidden in this sense relates to an item one would consider a healthy option. The sugar in this is thus, hidden.
Can you provide some examples?
https://eluxemagazine.com/magazine/hidden-sugars-in-10-common-foods/
Hope that satisfies - if not, let me know, I'll spend the rest of my years researching to cite Google-able sources.1 -
svetskisampion wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »The term hidden in this sense relates to an item one would consider a healthy option. The sugar in this is thus, hidden.
Can you provide some examples?
https://eluxemagazine.com/magazine/hidden-sugars-in-10-common-foods/
Hope that satisfies - if not, let me know, I'll spend the rest of my years researching to cite Google-able sources.
If you don't know that there's sugar in most of those foods, you're daft. The only real outliers are sushi and bread. Sushi because people who haven't made it don't know it's in there (though it always had been, so ignorance rather than "hidden") and bread, because the article is wrong. I just went to the Tesco site and looked at their white breads, and even the 50p Tesco brand white bread does not have any sugar. The articles claim that white bread is "full of sugar" is full of ***t.
Eta: USA bread does happen to be full of sugar. But it's not the norm.0 -
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suzannesimmons3 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »The term hidden in this sense relates to an item one would consider a healthy option. The sugar in this is thus, hidden.
The term "hidden", in any sense, relates to something that is concealed or deliberately difficult to detect. Just because people assume that something is "healthy" and therefore won't have added sugar does not make anything "hidden", particularly when it is right there on the label.
Even when a product does not have a label, it doesn't make added sugar "hidden". It's an ingredient. Any cook worth their salt (or sugar) knows that sugar is added to a vast amount of dishes, and has been for a very long time, even savoury dishes. Doesn't make it hidden.
Jesus Christ, it's the terminology used in the UK - so yes, where I'm from, it's hidden sugar.
No its not. I'm from the uk and hidden sugar as a phrase isn't a thing (or where I am it isnt)
I guess you don't watch much TV or read the news then...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/z8849j61 -
svetskisampion wrote: »suzannesimmons3 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »The term hidden in this sense relates to an item one would consider a healthy option. The sugar in this is thus, hidden.
The term "hidden", in any sense, relates to something that is concealed or deliberately difficult to detect. Just because people assume that something is "healthy" and therefore won't have added sugar does not make anything "hidden", particularly when it is right there on the label.
Even when a product does not have a label, it doesn't make added sugar "hidden". It's an ingredient. Any cook worth their salt (or sugar) knows that sugar is added to a vast amount of dishes, and has been for a very long time, even savoury dishes. Doesn't make it hidden.
Jesus Christ, it's the terminology used in the UK - so yes, where I'm from, it's hidden sugar.
No its not. I'm from the uk and hidden sugar as a phrase isn't a thing (or where I am it isnt)
I guess you don't watch much TV or read the news then...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/z8849j6
It's just a buzzword. It's not legitimate vernacular. It's basically a clickbait phrase3 -
suzannesimmons3 wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »The term hidden in this sense relates to an item one would consider a healthy option. The sugar in this is thus, hidden.
Can you provide some examples?
https://eluxemagazine.com/magazine/hidden-sugars-in-10-common-foods/
Hope that satisfies - if not, let me know, I'll spend the rest of my years researching to cite Google-able sources.
If you don't know that there's sugar in most of those foods, you're daft. The only real outliers are sushi and bread. Sushi because people who haven't made it don't know it's in there (though it always had been, so ignorance rather than "hidden") and bread, because the article is wrong. I just went to the Tesco site and looked at their white breads, and even the 50p Tesco brand white bread does not have any sugar. The articles claim that white bread is "full of sugar" is full of ***t.
Eta: USA bread does happen to be full of sugar. But it's not the norm.
Sugar is sometimes added to breads to feed the yeast. It's been added since forever but it would be on a lable and hardly.hidden.
Yup, and even with that, it's still not in even the cheapest white bread at Tesco. There are other ways to feed yeast. White bread being "full of sugar" as per the article is complete guff.0 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »suzannesimmons3 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »The term hidden in this sense relates to an item one would consider a healthy option. The sugar in this is thus, hidden.
The term "hidden", in any sense, relates to something that is concealed or deliberately difficult to detect. Just because people assume that something is "healthy" and therefore won't have added sugar does not make anything "hidden", particularly when it is right there on the label.
Even when a product does not have a label, it doesn't make added sugar "hidden". It's an ingredient. Any cook worth their salt (or sugar) knows that sugar is added to a vast amount of dishes, and has been for a very long time, even savoury dishes. Doesn't make it hidden.
Jesus Christ, it's the terminology used in the UK - so yes, where I'm from, it's hidden sugar.
No its not. I'm from the uk and hidden sugar as a phrase isn't a thing (or where I am it isnt)
I guess you don't watch much TV or read the news then...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/z8849j6
It's just a buzzword. It's not legitimate vernacular. It's basically a clickbait phrase
Oh, even though the NHS uses the exact phrase too?0 -
svetskisampion wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »suzannesimmons3 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »The term hidden in this sense relates to an item one would consider a healthy option. The sugar in this is thus, hidden.
The term "hidden", in any sense, relates to something that is concealed or deliberately difficult to detect. Just because people assume that something is "healthy" and therefore won't have added sugar does not make anything "hidden", particularly when it is right there on the label.
Even when a product does not have a label, it doesn't make added sugar "hidden". It's an ingredient. Any cook worth their salt (or sugar) knows that sugar is added to a vast amount of dishes, and has been for a very long time, even savoury dishes. Doesn't make it hidden.
Jesus Christ, it's the terminology used in the UK - so yes, where I'm from, it's hidden sugar.
No its not. I'm from the uk and hidden sugar as a phrase isn't a thing (or where I am it isnt)
I guess you don't watch much TV or read the news then...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/z8849j6
It's just a buzzword. It's not legitimate vernacular. It's basically a clickbait phrase
Oh, even though the NHS uses the exact phrase too?
A quick Google of NHS and hidden sugar didn't bring up a single nhs.uk site using that phrase. Added sugar, yes. Hidden sugar, no.0 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »suzannesimmons3 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »The term hidden in this sense relates to an item one would consider a healthy option. The sugar in this is thus, hidden.
The term "hidden", in any sense, relates to something that is concealed or deliberately difficult to detect. Just because people assume that something is "healthy" and therefore won't have added sugar does not make anything "hidden", particularly when it is right there on the label.
Even when a product does not have a label, it doesn't make added sugar "hidden". It's an ingredient. Any cook worth their salt (or sugar) knows that sugar is added to a vast amount of dishes, and has been for a very long time, even savoury dishes. Doesn't make it hidden.
Jesus Christ, it's the terminology used in the UK - so yes, where I'm from, it's hidden sugar.
No its not. I'm from the uk and hidden sugar as a phrase isn't a thing (or where I am it isnt)
I guess you don't watch much TV or read the news then...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/z8849j6
It's just a buzzword. It's not legitimate vernacular. It's basically a clickbait phrase
Oh, even though the NHS uses the exact phrase too?
A quick Google of NHS and hidden sugar didn't bring up a single nhs.uk site using that phrase. Added sugar, yes. Hidden sugar, no.
Search for NHS sugar exposed leaflet.0 -
This hidden sugar discussion is absurd. Again, as I said above, people are not getting lots of calories from sugar because they are tricked or can't see sugar on a label, that's an excuse.
Here's (https://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Goodfood/Pages/Top-sources-of-added-sugar-in-our-diet.aspx) a source from the NHS showing what the main sources of added sugar in the UK diet are:
(1) table sugar, jams, chocolate and sweets (27%)
(2) soft drinks, fruit juice, and other non-alcoholic drinks (25%)
(3) biscuits and cakes (20%)
(4) alcoholic drinks (11%)
(5) dairy products, such as flavoured milks, yoghurts and dairy-based desserts like ice cream (6%) -- note, these are as obvious as the others
(6) savory foods (the so-called hidden sugars) -- 5%
So not only is it a silly buzzword, it's basically irrelevant.
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suzannesimmons3 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »suzannesimmons3 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »The term hidden in this sense relates to an item one would consider a healthy option. The sugar in this is thus, hidden.
The term "hidden", in any sense, relates to something that is concealed or deliberately difficult to detect. Just because people assume that something is "healthy" and therefore won't have added sugar does not make anything "hidden", particularly when it is right there on the label.
Even when a product does not have a label, it doesn't make added sugar "hidden". It's an ingredient. Any cook worth their salt (or sugar) knows that sugar is added to a vast amount of dishes, and has been for a very long time, even savoury dishes. Doesn't make it hidden.
Jesus Christ, it's the terminology used in the UK - so yes, where I'm from, it's hidden sugar.
No its not. I'm from the uk and hidden sugar as a phrase isn't a thing (or where I am it isnt)
I guess you don't watch much TV or read the news then...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/z8849j6
It's just a buzzword. It's not legitimate vernacular. It's basically a clickbait phrase
Oh, even though the NHS uses the exact phrase too?
A quick Google of NHS and hidden sugar didn't bring up a single nhs.uk site using that phrase. Added sugar, yes. Hidden sugar, no.
Search for NHS sugar exposed leaflet.
That was produced by one areas dental dept....not the nhs as a whole.
I've seen a lot about added sugars on the nhs general site.
Fair enough, I accept the source isn't top notch. I'm happy to accept it may just be a buzzword, but it still reiterates that the term is used in the UK.0 -
svetskisampion wrote: »suzannesimmons3 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »suzannesimmons3 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »The term hidden in this sense relates to an item one would consider a healthy option. The sugar in this is thus, hidden.
The term "hidden", in any sense, relates to something that is concealed or deliberately difficult to detect. Just because people assume that something is "healthy" and therefore won't have added sugar does not make anything "hidden", particularly when it is right there on the label.
Even when a product does not have a label, it doesn't make added sugar "hidden". It's an ingredient. Any cook worth their salt (or sugar) knows that sugar is added to a vast amount of dishes, and has been for a very long time, even savoury dishes. Doesn't make it hidden.
Jesus Christ, it's the terminology used in the UK - so yes, where I'm from, it's hidden sugar.
No its not. I'm from the uk and hidden sugar as a phrase isn't a thing (or where I am it isnt)
I guess you don't watch much TV or read the news then...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/z8849j6
It's just a buzzword. It's not legitimate vernacular. It's basically a clickbait phrase
Oh, even though the NHS uses the exact phrase too?
A quick Google of NHS and hidden sugar didn't bring up a single nhs.uk site using that phrase. Added sugar, yes. Hidden sugar, no.
Search for NHS sugar exposed leaflet.
That was produced by one areas dental dept....not the nhs as a whole.
I've seen a lot about added sugars on the nhs general site.
Fair enough, I accept the source isn't top notch. I'm happy to accept it may just be a buzzword, but it still reiterates that the term is used in the UK.
The term is used is Australia too, but not in any legitimate or reputable way. It's just buzzword fear mongering "ohhh big sugar is hiding sugar in your food to make you fat!"2 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »suzannesimmons3 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »suzannesimmons3 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »The term hidden in this sense relates to an item one would consider a healthy option. The sugar in this is thus, hidden.
The term "hidden", in any sense, relates to something that is concealed or deliberately difficult to detect. Just because people assume that something is "healthy" and therefore won't have added sugar does not make anything "hidden", particularly when it is right there on the label.
Even when a product does not have a label, it doesn't make added sugar "hidden". It's an ingredient. Any cook worth their salt (or sugar) knows that sugar is added to a vast amount of dishes, and has been for a very long time, even savoury dishes. Doesn't make it hidden.
Jesus Christ, it's the terminology used in the UK - so yes, where I'm from, it's hidden sugar.
No its not. I'm from the uk and hidden sugar as a phrase isn't a thing (or where I am it isnt)
I guess you don't watch much TV or read the news then...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/z8849j6
It's just a buzzword. It's not legitimate vernacular. It's basically a clickbait phrase
Oh, even though the NHS uses the exact phrase too?
A quick Google of NHS and hidden sugar didn't bring up a single nhs.uk site using that phrase. Added sugar, yes. Hidden sugar, no.
Search for NHS sugar exposed leaflet.
That was produced by one areas dental dept....not the nhs as a whole.
I've seen a lot about added sugars on the nhs general site.
Fair enough, I accept the source isn't top notch. I'm happy to accept it may just be a buzzword, but it still reiterates that the term is used in the UK.
The term is used is Australia too, but not in any legitimate or reputable way. It's just buzzword fear mongering "ohhh big sugar is hiding sugar in your food to make you fat!"
This is how it is used in the US as well. At least, based on the situations I have encountered people using the term.0 -
Why am I not shocked that the line in my previous comment stating "Please note---I said self inflicted. I am not advocating we stop helping all disabled people nor want to start a discussion on the specific definition of self inflicted...this is a concept." was totally ignored and noted for discussion??? The point is...we all have freedom of choice...but it is not a "right" granted in the constitution of our founding fathers for all the people to pay for some of the peoples mistakes. Unfortunately that "some" is increasing in numbers at an alarming rate. I don't stick needles into peoples arms, I don't force people to get involved with meth nor shove Twinkies into anyone's mouth. Those are choices to live by...and I seriously doubt any of those people would be a 78 year old farmer who worked hard all his life nor hurt a knee on the tennis court. That was totally taken out of context.1
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Packerjohn wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »Back in the UK whilst I was still there the idea of a sugar tax was being proposed on drinks, confectionaries, pastries etc. The idea behind it was that with an obesity epidemic well in swing, the NHS was feeling the strain of treating patients who were termed obese. Because of the free health care provided in the UK, tax contributions and government spending is what pays essentially for healthcare. While in theory this may be a good idea to an extent, taxing sugar foods or "junk" is nothing short of another government money grabbing scheme. Not everyone who eats junk is a burden to the healthcare systems, and not everyone who is a burden to the healthcare system eats junk. The processed sugar that has crept into our food is not the fault of the end user, but rather the manufacturers who have created or helped develop this ongoing epidemic. It is they who should be punished financially, perhaps through similar standards adopted in the auto industry where requirements are needed to be met, not the citizens who enjoy a can of soda or chocolate bar. Whether tax is added to items or not, people will still use them. See high emission vehicles, fuel, alcohol, tobacco - tax is not a detterent. A complete overhaul of how processed foods are manufactured and the behaviour of manufacturers, advertised, how they are regulated, awareness of the health effects they produce etc is the best in a society's present obesity (health) epidemic.
I've been to the UK. Gas there is around double the US, most of the difference being tax. Compare the number of large pick-ups and SUVs on UK roads vs the US and tell me again how high gas prices aren't a deterrent.
In the UK, purchases of SUV's have surpassed all other vehicle categories and is now the most popular vehicle type on the road. Whether or not the gas prices are high, people are still driving. So, again, taxes are not a deterrent.
Take a look at the top 10 selling vehicles in the UK vs the US and let us know which you think has the higher fleet miles per gallon:
UK (note of the 10 vehicles listed 2 are SUVs)
http://www.carbuyer.co.uk/reviews/recommended/best-selling-cars
US
http://www.businessinsider.com/best-selling-cars-trucks-vehicle-america-2016-2017-1/#9-honda-accord-345225-29-12
I would also really hesitate to call the Nissan Qashquai or Nissan Juke an SUV...at least in terms of what the US calls an SUV.
Nissan Juke SUV:
Best selling vehicle in the U.S. as of Sept 2017..Ford F series...
#2 Chevy Silverado...
#3 Ram p/u
Note that sales of these vehicles went down significantly in the early 2000s when gas was double or more of what it is now and purchases of small cars rose.
Note sure how I really feel about taxing "junk food", but the argument that taxes don't change people purchasing and utilization habits doesn't fly. My biggest thing would be what would be considered "junk"
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Alatariel75 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »suzannesimmons3 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »suzannesimmons3 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »The term hidden in this sense relates to an item one would consider a healthy option. The sugar in this is thus, hidden.
The term "hidden", in any sense, relates to something that is concealed or deliberately difficult to detect. Just because people assume that something is "healthy" and therefore won't have added sugar does not make anything "hidden", particularly when it is right there on the label.
Even when a product does not have a label, it doesn't make added sugar "hidden". It's an ingredient. Any cook worth their salt (or sugar) knows that sugar is added to a vast amount of dishes, and has been for a very long time, even savoury dishes. Doesn't make it hidden.
Jesus Christ, it's the terminology used in the UK - so yes, where I'm from, it's hidden sugar.
No its not. I'm from the uk and hidden sugar as a phrase isn't a thing (or where I am it isnt)
I guess you don't watch much TV or read the news then...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/z8849j6
It's just a buzzword. It's not legitimate vernacular. It's basically a clickbait phrase
Oh, even though the NHS uses the exact phrase too?
A quick Google of NHS and hidden sugar didn't bring up a single nhs.uk site using that phrase. Added sugar, yes. Hidden sugar, no.
Search for NHS sugar exposed leaflet.
That was produced by one areas dental dept....not the nhs as a whole.
I've seen a lot about added sugars on the nhs general site.
Fair enough, I accept the source isn't top notch. I'm happy to accept it may just be a buzzword, but it still reiterates that the term is used in the UK.
The term is used is Australia too, but not in any legitimate or reputable way. It's just buzzword fear mongering "ohhh big sugar is hiding sugar in your food to make you fat!"
I admit that I may have been wrong towards the actual legitimate use of the term "hidden sugars" in an actual healthcare system or studis etc, but in an obesity epidemic where sugar seems to be an increasing additive to the foods we eat, whether they be healthy or non healthy options, there does lie some credibility that actually, it could be an underlying issue of health concern. For what it's worth, I do understand the arguments put forward in this topic regarding obesity being a cause of overeating, but I also would like to add that the overeating occurs possibly because of the consumption of such "empty calories". For instance, not everybody logs their daily meals, and what they may seem is an innocent meal or healthy option in say, a pre packaged processed meal, may not provide an individual with a fulfilling meal yet is laced with calories and sugars that far exceeds the benefit it gives in terms of "feeling full". This to occur as a standard twice daily (on the basis that breakfast won't contain a processed "quick meal") can lead to overeating in calories, yet not feeling like overeating as the meal hasn't provided you with sufficient "fullness" to a degree. That is the angle I believe is trying to be portrayed when "hidden sugars" are discussed. Again, upon reflection of my previous statements and input from others, it may not be the actual sugar within the foodstuff that causes the health issues, but rather that because the foods are laden with such empty calories they lead to overeating and excess consumption of sugars.
0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »Back in the UK whilst I was still there the idea of a sugar tax was being proposed on drinks, confectionaries, pastries etc. The idea behind it was that with an obesity epidemic well in swing, the NHS was feeling the strain of treating patients who were termed obese. Because of the free health care provided in the UK, tax contributions and government spending is what pays essentially for healthcare. While in theory this may be a good idea to an extent, taxing sugar foods or "junk" is nothing short of another government money grabbing scheme. Not everyone who eats junk is a burden to the healthcare systems, and not everyone who is a burden to the healthcare system eats junk. The processed sugar that has crept into our food is not the fault of the end user, but rather the manufacturers who have created or helped develop this ongoing epidemic. It is they who should be punished financially, perhaps through similar standards adopted in the auto industry where requirements are needed to be met, not the citizens who enjoy a can of soda or chocolate bar. Whether tax is added to items or not, people will still use them. See high emission vehicles, fuel, alcohol, tobacco - tax is not a detterent. A complete overhaul of how processed foods are manufactured and the behaviour of manufacturers, advertised, how they are regulated, awareness of the health effects they produce etc is the best in a society's present obesity (health) epidemic.
I've been to the UK. Gas there is around double the US, most of the difference being tax. Compare the number of large pick-ups and SUVs on UK roads vs the US and tell me again how high gas prices aren't a deterrent.
In the UK, purchases of SUV's have surpassed all other vehicle categories and is now the most popular vehicle type on the road. Whether or not the gas prices are high, people are still driving. So, again, taxes are not a deterrent.
Take a look at the top 10 selling vehicles in the UK vs the US and let us know which you think has the higher fleet miles per gallon:
UK (note of the 10 vehicles listed 2 are SUVs)
http://www.carbuyer.co.uk/reviews/recommended/best-selling-cars
US
http://www.businessinsider.com/best-selling-cars-trucks-vehicle-america-2016-2017-1/#9-honda-accord-345225-29-12
I would also really hesitate to call the Nissan Qashquai or Nissan Juke an SUV...at least in terms of what the US calls an SUV.
Nissan Juke SUV:
Best selling vehicle in the U.S. as of Sept 2017..Ford F series...
#2 Chevy Silverado...
#3 Ram p/u
Note that sales of these vehicles went down significantly in the early 2000s when gas was double or more of what it is now and purchases of small cars rose.
Note sure how I really feel about taxing "junk food", but the argument that taxes don't change people purchasing and utilization habits doesn't fly. My biggest thing would be what would be considered "junk"
Yeah, I think the Qashqai is smaller than a Juke. Would not be surprised if you could put one in the bed of an F-150.
Friends with large pickups would say their vehicle craps bigger things than the Qashqai0 -
svetskisampion wrote: »I admit that I may have been wrong towards the actual legitimate use of the term "hidden sugars" in an actual healthcare system or studis etc, but in an obesity epidemic where sugar seems to be an increasing additive to the foods we eat, whether they be healthy or non healthy options, there does lie some credibility that actually, it could be an underlying issue of health concern.
I pointed out the breakdown of added sugar in the UK diet. Only 5% is from savory foods.For what it's worth, I do understand the arguments put forward in this topic regarding obesity being a cause of overeating, but I also would like to add that the overeating occurs possibly because of the consumption of such "empty calories". For instance, not everybody logs their daily meals, and what they may seem is an innocent meal or healthy option in say, a pre packaged processed meal, may not provide an individual with a fulfilling meal yet is laced with calories and sugars that far exceeds the benefit it gives in terms of "feeling full".
Are you talking about pre packaged meals in general, or some hypothetical sugar-filled high cal pre-packaged meal? I suspect that most calories from pre-packaged meals that are high cal are from fat and starchy refined carbs, not added sugar. And worth noting that just as many are not high cal. When they are high cal, it's usually obvious. And again, as I said before, only 5% of the added sugar in the UK diet is from savory items, which this would be.This to occur as a standard twice daily (on the basis that breakfast won't contain a processed "quick meal") can lead to overeating in calories, yet not feeling like overeating as the meal hasn't provided you with sufficient "fullness" to a degree.
I seriously doubt that many people consume 2 meals a day of frozen meals and then get fat because they think that's healthy but are not full. Certainly not those not actively trying to diet and then if they aren't satisfied they should adjust. I think it's far more common for people to think prepackaged meals are bad for them (even if they aren't) and that eating so many of them would be terrible. I also think more likely they do it for lunches or an occasional thing or simply aren't really watching what they eat so much and eating what they like, not overeating because they accidentally regularly ate frozen meals that they found unsatisfying because they thought this was a healthy approach.it may not be the actual sugar within the foodstuff that causes the health issues, but rather that because the foods are laden with such empty calories they lead to overeating and excess consumption of sugars.
So eating an Amy's Light and Lean is responsible for someone then going out and eating lots of sugar?1 -
svetskisampion wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »suzannesimmons3 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »suzannesimmons3 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »The term hidden in this sense relates to an item one would consider a healthy option. The sugar in this is thus, hidden.
The term "hidden", in any sense, relates to something that is concealed or deliberately difficult to detect. Just because people assume that something is "healthy" and therefore won't have added sugar does not make anything "hidden", particularly when it is right there on the label.
Even when a product does not have a label, it doesn't make added sugar "hidden". It's an ingredient. Any cook worth their salt (or sugar) knows that sugar is added to a vast amount of dishes, and has been for a very long time, even savoury dishes. Doesn't make it hidden.
Jesus Christ, it's the terminology used in the UK - so yes, where I'm from, it's hidden sugar.
No its not. I'm from the uk and hidden sugar as a phrase isn't a thing (or where I am it isnt)
I guess you don't watch much TV or read the news then...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/z8849j6
It's just a buzzword. It's not legitimate vernacular. It's basically a clickbait phrase
Oh, even though the NHS uses the exact phrase too?
A quick Google of NHS and hidden sugar didn't bring up a single nhs.uk site using that phrase. Added sugar, yes. Hidden sugar, no.
Search for NHS sugar exposed leaflet.
That was produced by one areas dental dept....not the nhs as a whole.
I've seen a lot about added sugars on the nhs general site.
Fair enough, I accept the source isn't top notch. I'm happy to accept it may just be a buzzword, but it still reiterates that the term is used in the UK.
The term is used is Australia too, but not in any legitimate or reputable way. It's just buzzword fear mongering "ohhh big sugar is hiding sugar in your food to make you fat!"
I admit that I may have been wrong towards the actual legitimate use of the term "hidden sugars" in an actual healthcare system or studis etc, but in an obesity epidemic where sugar seems to be an increasing additive to the foods we eat, whether they be healthy or non healthy options, there does lie some credibility that actually, it could be an underlying issue of health concern. For what it's worth, I do understand the arguments put forward in this topic regarding obesity being a cause of overeating, but I also would like to add that the overeating occurs possibly because of the consumption of such "empty calories". For instance, not everybody logs their daily meals, and what they may seem is an innocent meal or healthy option in say, a pre packaged processed meal, may not provide an individual with a fulfilling meal yet is laced with calories and sugars that far exceeds the benefit it gives in terms of "feeling full". This to occur as a standard twice daily (on the basis that breakfast won't contain a processed "quick meal") can lead to overeating in calories, yet not feeling like overeating as the meal hasn't provided you with sufficient "fullness" to a degree. That is the angle I believe is trying to be portrayed when "hidden sugars" are discussed. Again, upon reflection of my previous statements and input from others, it may not be the actual sugar within the foodstuff that causes the health issues, but rather that because the foods are laden with such empty calories they lead to overeating and excess consumption of sugars.
I do appreciate you clarifying and acknowledging you may have been focusing on the wrong terminology. I do still disagree with what I think you are now proposing. You're now talking about ready meals, that you believe people choose because they are healthy, but because they are not satiating, the people eating them tend to overeat later and consume over their calories thus putting them in a surplus and leading to weight gain and obesity, is that right? I still don't understand what that has to do with sugar consumption?
For what it's worth, I eat frozen meals for lunch at work a few times a week. They tend to be about 300-400 cals and i add some extra chicken or frozen veggies for protein and bulk, takes it up to the 500 cal level usually. That's perfectly satiating and doesn't send me running for a cookie or a piece of cake later, which, if I were still hungry, I wouldn't choose something like that, I would probably get some nuts or hummus or a Greek yogurt. I also often eat a prepackaged breakfast sandwich or a breakfast bowl with egg whites, turkey sausage, potatoes and cheese. It's about 250 cals and with my coffee and creamer, takes me to 350 for the morning which is fine till lunch.
I'm just trying to understand what you feel is so nefarious about these foods that is leading people to blindly over eat, under the premise that they made one healthy choice so now it's a free for all? If that's the case, and that's what you're saying, I'm not sure why you're blaming food and food manufacturers when this comes down to personal accountability and making sensible choices.4 -
WinoGelato wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »suzannesimmons3 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »suzannesimmons3 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »svetskisampion wrote: »The term hidden in this sense relates to an item one would consider a healthy option. The sugar in this is thus, hidden.
The term "hidden", in any sense, relates to something that is concealed or deliberately difficult to detect. Just because people assume that something is "healthy" and therefore won't have added sugar does not make anything "hidden", particularly when it is right there on the label.
Even when a product does not have a label, it doesn't make added sugar "hidden". It's an ingredient. Any cook worth their salt (or sugar) knows that sugar is added to a vast amount of dishes, and has been for a very long time, even savoury dishes. Doesn't make it hidden.
Jesus Christ, it's the terminology used in the UK - so yes, where I'm from, it's hidden sugar.
No its not. I'm from the uk and hidden sugar as a phrase isn't a thing (or where I am it isnt)
I guess you don't watch much TV or read the news then...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/z8849j6
It's just a buzzword. It's not legitimate vernacular. It's basically a clickbait phrase
Oh, even though the NHS uses the exact phrase too?
A quick Google of NHS and hidden sugar didn't bring up a single nhs.uk site using that phrase. Added sugar, yes. Hidden sugar, no.
Search for NHS sugar exposed leaflet.
That was produced by one areas dental dept....not the nhs as a whole.
I've seen a lot about added sugars on the nhs general site.
Fair enough, I accept the source isn't top notch. I'm happy to accept it may just be a buzzword, but it still reiterates that the term is used in the UK.
The term is used is Australia too, but not in any legitimate or reputable way. It's just buzzword fear mongering "ohhh big sugar is hiding sugar in your food to make you fat!"
I admit that I may have been wrong towards the actual legitimate use of the term "hidden sugars" in an actual healthcare system or studis etc, but in an obesity epidemic where sugar seems to be an increasing additive to the foods we eat, whether they be healthy or non healthy options, there does lie some credibility that actually, it could be an underlying issue of health concern. For what it's worth, I do understand the arguments put forward in this topic regarding obesity being a cause of overeating, but I also would like to add that the overeating occurs possibly because of the consumption of such "empty calories". For instance, not everybody logs their daily meals, and what they may seem is an innocent meal or healthy option in say, a pre packaged processed meal, may not provide an individual with a fulfilling meal yet is laced with calories and sugars that far exceeds the benefit it gives in terms of "feeling full". This to occur as a standard twice daily (on the basis that breakfast won't contain a processed "quick meal") can lead to overeating in calories, yet not feeling like overeating as the meal hasn't provided you with sufficient "fullness" to a degree. That is the angle I believe is trying to be portrayed when "hidden sugars" are discussed. Again, upon reflection of my previous statements and input from others, it may not be the actual sugar within the foodstuff that causes the health issues, but rather that because the foods are laden with such empty calories they lead to overeating and excess consumption of sugars.
I do appreciate you clarifying and acknowledging you may have been focusing on the wrong terminology. I do still disagree with what I think you are now proposing. You're now talking about ready meals, that you believe people choose because they are healthy, but because they are not satiating, the people eating them tend to overeat later and consume over their calories thus putting them in a surplus and leading to weight gain and obesity, is that right? I still don't understand what that has to do with sugar consumption?
For what it's worth, I eat frozen meals for lunch at work a few times a week. They tend to be about 300-400 cals and i add some extra chicken or frozen veggies for protein and bulk, takes it up to the 500 cal level usually. That's perfectly satiating and doesn't send me running for a cookie or a piece of cake later, which, if I were still hungry, I wouldn't choose something like that, I would probably get some nuts or hummus or a Greek yogurt. I also often eat a prepackaged breakfast sandwich or a breakfast bowl with egg whites, turkey sausage, potatoes and cheese. It's about 250 cals and with my coffee and creamer, takes me to 350 for the morning which is fine till lunch.
I'm just trying to understand what you feel is so nefarious about these foods that is leading people to blindly over eat, under the premise that they made one healthy choice so now it's a free for all? If that's the case, and that's what you're saying, I'm not sure why you're blaming food and food manufacturers when this comes down to personal accountability and making sensible choices.
I would suggest reading a study by Johnson et al about the role of sugar in the epidemic of obesity and diabetes to see my angle regarding sugar consumption and because of its availability in our foodstuff leads to health issues.
With regards to ready made meals, I wasn't pointing out that people will necessarily see them as THE healthy option, but certainly healthier than eating a whole pack of chocolate and because of its ease to useany people do consume such without eating within their guidelines. Because you may find and meal satisfying, the next 100 people who consume so perhaps wont.
And regarding your last point, the blame is placed on manufacturers from my point as 1) the way foodstuffs are advertised plays a big role on consumption 2) see the rise of fast food consumption globally, which has definitely had an impact on the obesity epidemic 3) not everyone is in the position to make a meal from scratch, or fully understands what it is they eat, but rather purchase blind based on appearance etc again, this comes to marketing and manufacturer behaviour 4) the arguments correlate to how consumer behavior and addictions are created because of manufacturer behaviour - recently there has been a big push in the cigarette industry to charecterise the health impact of smoking, yet think how previously advertising and marketing of these products were portrayed. Now think of that but within the food industry. How are everyday foodstuffs marketed to consumers, irrespective of how healthy they may be deemed on a scale of 1-10. You are more likely to find the foodstuffs that are tipping towards the 10 on the scale in terms of "unhealthy" be marketed in a glamorous way preconditioning consumer behaviour, very much like how smoking was portrayed all those decades ago.3
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