Veganism and macro ratio
oat_bran
Posts: 370 Member
Okay, before I formulate my question, let me just clarify that I'm just as annoyed to hear "where do you get your protein?" like any vegan. I used to always roll my eyes when people would ask me "what do you replace the meat with?" because obviously these questions come from the idea, that meat or other animal products are what you build your meal around. I would always reply that I just eat more of vegan foods and that's it.
HOWEVER, now that I'm trying to lose weight I realize that things may be trickier than that for some people. Initially, I would struggle a lot with hunger while losing weight even though I was eating a decent amount of calories. So several months ago, I started to look into my macros and experimented a bit and came to the conclusion that splitting my macros more or less evenly for each meal keeps me full longer than a meal with less fat and protein. I also realized that I was never taught what a balanced meal is. So I started seeing each meal consisting of 4 main elements: protein source, fat source (fat and protein can be the same food sometimes), starch source (I noticed that it's important for me to have some starch for every meal to feel full), and the veggie or/fruit part. If my meal has all four of these elements and the macros are split more or less evenly, I generally feel pleasantly full for a long time after eating.
Now, starches and fats are obviously easy to get on a plant based diet, but protein is a bit more difficult. I noticed that I started relying more and more on processed meat replacements, tofu, seitan and protein powder. I'm usually have no choice but to use one of these for every meal. Because other vegan protein sources are either too high in fat (nuts and seeds), or too high in carbs (beans, lentils, grains) to be the main protein source of the meal. And I notice that some days I have soy with every meal (tofu for breakfast, soy based veggie burger for lunch and TVP mince for dinner). Contrary to popular believe I don't think that soy is necessarily somehow bad for you, but surely it's not good if it's the main protein source of most of your meals?
Then other times, I think that maybe it's just psychological and I have just convinced myself that I need to have a certain amount of protein to feel full?
So basically, I just want to hear from fellow vegans about your experiences. Do you track your macros? What ratio keeps you full? what are your most common protein sources?
HOWEVER, now that I'm trying to lose weight I realize that things may be trickier than that for some people. Initially, I would struggle a lot with hunger while losing weight even though I was eating a decent amount of calories. So several months ago, I started to look into my macros and experimented a bit and came to the conclusion that splitting my macros more or less evenly for each meal keeps me full longer than a meal with less fat and protein. I also realized that I was never taught what a balanced meal is. So I started seeing each meal consisting of 4 main elements: protein source, fat source (fat and protein can be the same food sometimes), starch source (I noticed that it's important for me to have some starch for every meal to feel full), and the veggie or/fruit part. If my meal has all four of these elements and the macros are split more or less evenly, I generally feel pleasantly full for a long time after eating.
Now, starches and fats are obviously easy to get on a plant based diet, but protein is a bit more difficult. I noticed that I started relying more and more on processed meat replacements, tofu, seitan and protein powder. I'm usually have no choice but to use one of these for every meal. Because other vegan protein sources are either too high in fat (nuts and seeds), or too high in carbs (beans, lentils, grains) to be the main protein source of the meal. And I notice that some days I have soy with every meal (tofu for breakfast, soy based veggie burger for lunch and TVP mince for dinner). Contrary to popular believe I don't think that soy is necessarily somehow bad for you, but surely it's not good if it's the main protein source of most of your meals?
Then other times, I think that maybe it's just psychological and I have just convinced myself that I need to have a certain amount of protein to feel full?
So basically, I just want to hear from fellow vegans about your experiences. Do you track your macros? What ratio keeps you full? what are your most common protein sources?
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Replies
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This site has a list of vegetarian protein sources, and their values per serving. Might help: https://greatist.com/health/complete-vegetarian-proteins There are some people who feel satisfied from protein, others fat. I'm not vegan but like you I do seem to feel full when my meal is balanced. Maybe it is just psychological, maybe it isn't, but my dietician emphasizes balanced meals as often as I can manage, so maybe there is something to it.1
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I do track my macros. I don't aim to have them balance out within a single day, but I do watch them for the rolling week to make sure I'm getting enough protein and fat.
I'm usually around 50-60% carbohydrates, 20-30% fat, and 15-20% protein. This is what works best for me for energy and satiety and it's been pretty consistent over the 2+ years I've been tracking (I lost about 40 pounds and have been maintaining since fall 2015). As long as I am getting consistent protein and fat, I never worry about limiting carbohydrates. If your only reason for limiting beans is because of their carbohydrate content (not, for example, your calorie goal), I would question if that's necessary. Personally, I have found that higher carbohydrate meals are fine for my satiety as long as I'm getting some protein and fat with them and especially if they're higher in fiber (like a meal with beans would be). You may not be the same as me, but it's something to consider.
When I was losing weight I got most of my protein from tofu, tempeh, seitan, and protein powders. They were the easiest for me to fit in my calories. I also ate beans, but I eat them more now that I'm maintaining. When I was losing weight, I found that a lot of my meals were tofu/tempeh/seitan with a high volume of lower calorie vegetables because it was very easy to fit into my calories, it kept me satisfied, and I really enjoyed it. I'll still have meals like that, but now I'm also eating more grains and I'll often have beans more than once a day.
When I look at the past week for an example, I can see that most of my protein has come from tempeh, hummus, pea protein powder (I've been mixing it with coffee and almond milk in the morning recently), and lentils. I have periods where I have more soy and I may have it for two or even three meals a day.3 -
My macro ratios vary depending on my calorie goals, but right now I'm eating at a deficit do I am aiming for roughly 60/20/20 C/F/P. It works well for me, although some people may need more fat in order to stay full.
I do find that I need to rely on processed proteins to comfortably get more than about 12-15% protein, but I don't stress about it, as long as I am getting a variety of sources on a weekly basis. I have pea protein shakes for breakfast most days, and lunch and dinner contain some combination of soy, seitan, and or legumes.
If you want to eat more legumes but they are throwing off your macros, maybe try reducing the grains at that meal, and see if the fiber and carbs in the beans are satisfying enough? I also am in the habit of trying to choose the higher protein grains, which can add 5-10g and turn a moderate protein meal into a high protein one.
If you are worried about relying too much on a single protein source you could try switching some of your soy products to similar ones made with pea or gluten. I like Upton, Gardein, Smartlife, Sweet Earth, and Beyond Meat for things like veggie burgers or meatless crumbles.1 -
I don't track macro ratios, but I am a person that feels satiated as long as I have some fat with every meal. So I have walnuts in my oatmeal, avocado on my bean burrito, and saute my onions for my lentil soup with olive oil, etc. For me, legumes are my primary source of protein, but I eat tofu several times per week and meat replacements a couple of times per week too.
I find that I don't necessarily need to balance out all my macros to feel satisfied, but I DO need to eat more than one thing at a meal. So for me, a bowl of split pea soup looks great on paper, but psychologically I feel more like I had a complete meal if I had an apple with it, or a slice of whole wheat bread, or some carrots (even though there are carrots in the soup.)2 -
I’ve been adjusting my macros lately. I was doing basic CICO without concern for macros, which had worked for me in the past (but I let some weight creep back on
). This time, I found that I was hungry a lot, which didn’t really happen before. When I looked at my macros, I found that that I was eating a lot of fat (35% or so, along with about 18-20% protein), which I suspected was not giving me the nutrients I needed. So I decided to try something different.
Inspired by the Forks Over Knives/The China Study/etc. line of thinking, a few weeks ago I went whole foods, low(er) fat. My macros are now around 65% carbs, 15% protein, 20% fat. (I’ve been shooting for 15% fat, but I haven’t been so good while eating out.) The carbs (and protein) come from whole grains, beans, lentils, veggies, and fruit, with very little added sugars or refined grains. I eat tofu and tempeh, but not as much as before. (Personally, I’m not a fan of processed meat replacers or protein powders.)
I feel really good, I have plenty of energy when I work out, I’m fuller longer, I’m easily exceeding daily vitamin/mineral recommendations, and my weight is moving really well in the right direction. So far it seems this is working for me! We’ll see how it goes long-term.
Also, you may want to take a second look at some of the protein sources you mentioned above as being less than ideal. As a percentage of calories, lentils are 30% protein, black beans are 26% protein, garbanzo beans/chickpeas are 20% protein, oats are 16% protein, etc. There’s a good article on No Meat Athlete about making these ratios work for you.
http://www.nomeatathlete.com/vegan-protein-percentages/1 -
-->a former vegan
@oat_bran By definition, carbs are going to be higher on a vegan diet. Do not worry about carbs. Enjoy pinto beans, black beans, lentils, chic peas, adzuki beans, edamame,
Do get enough fats and oils either from cooking oils or tofu or nuts and seeds like flax seeds chia seeds, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds.
I used to eat very little fruit (carbs) in order to have room for protein.
For protein, include veggies like kale, kohlrabi, broccoli rabe, broccoli, asparagus, pumpkin seeds, mung bean sprouts, green beans.
Grains will have carbs along with some protein.1 -
I've gone vegan for periods of time and I came to the same conclusion as you did: that no you won't die of protein deficiency, but that it does take planning. In addition to the typical whole foods sources, I recommend PB2 and nooch to up the protein content of your food.
I did really struggle with satiety though, and if I was off one day I would get ravenous, so I went back to being reducitarian/flexitarian. It's absolutely possible to get enough protein while losing weight through whole foods sources, it's just a bit of a juggling act.1 -
I like the Boca crumbles and burgers, I eat beans almost every day. btw I'm not doing vegan right now.
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MichelleSilverleaf wrote: »This site has a list of vegetarian protein sources, and their values per serving. Might help: https://greatist.com/health/complete-vegetarian-proteins-->a former vegan
@oat_bran By definition, carbs are going to be higher on a vegan diet. Do not worry about carbs. Enjoy pinto beans, black beans, lentils, chic peas, adzuki beans, edamame,
Do get enough fats and oils either from cooking oils or tofu or nuts and seeds like flax seeds chia seeds, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds.
I used to eat very little fruit (carbs) in order to have room for protein.
For protein, include veggies like kale, kohlrabi, broccoli rabe, broccoli, asparagus, pumpkin seeds, mung bean sprouts, green beans.
Grains will have carbs along with some protein.I've gone vegan for periods of time and I came to the same conclusion as you did: that no you won't die of protein deficiency, but that it does take planning. In addition to the typical whole foods sources, I recommend PB2 and nooch to up the protein content of your food.
I did really struggle with satiety though, and if I was off one day I would get ravenous, so I went back to being reducitarian/flexitarian. It's absolutely possible to get enough protein while losing weight through whole foods sources, it's just a bit of a juggling act.
These are all great tips! Thank you! I've been actually experimenting with adding nutritional yeast and marmite to some of my grain and beans based meals, which is a good way to add protein with some additional B vitamins and fiber. Swapping some of the grains for beans and using higher protein veggies, like broccoli, brussels sprouts and kale is also a great idea!0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I do track my macros. I don't aim to have them balance out within a single day, but I do watch them for the rolling week to make sure I'm getting enough protein and fat.
I'm usually around 50-60% carbohydrates, 20-30% fat, and 15-20% protein. This is what works best for me for energy and satiety and it's been pretty consistent over the 2+ years I've been tracking (I lost about 40 pounds and have been maintaining since fall 2015). As long as I am getting consistent protein and fat, I never worry about limiting carbohydrates. If your only reason for limiting beans is because of their carbohydrate content (not, for example, your calorie goal), I would question if that's necessary. Personally, I have found that higher carbohydrate meals are fine for my satiety as long as I'm getting some protein and fat with them and especially if they're higher in fiber (like a meal with beans would be). You may not be the same as me, but it's something to consider.
When I was losing weight I got most of my protein from tofu, tempeh, seitan, and protein powders. They were the easiest for me to fit in my calories. I also ate beans, but I eat them more now that I'm maintaining. When I was losing weight, I found that a lot of my meals were tofu/tempeh/seitan with a high volume of lower calorie vegetables because it was very easy to fit into my calories, it kept me satisfied, and I really enjoyed it. I'll still have meals like that, but now I'm also eating more grains and I'll often have beans more than once a day.
When I look at the past week for an example, I can see that most of my protein has come from tempeh, hummus, pea protein powder (I've been mixing it with coffee and almond milk in the morning recently), and lentils. I have periods where I have more soy and I may have it for two or even three meals a day.
How does the pea protein powder taste like? What brand do you use? I've been looking for a more-neutral tasting protein powder that is versatile and can be added to smoothies, porridge, for baking etc., kinda like vanilla protein powder. The soy based protein powder I bought recently tastes disgusting, but maybe it's just because of the cheap brand.
My reason for limiting beans is because of my calorie goal. If I didn't have a calorie limit I would eat a lot of beans without a problem and would get enough of protein. But when I already have a significant carbohydrate source in my meal, beans throw my macro ratio off. But I guess I can try swapping grains for beans in some of my meals. It's actually a good idea. And I guess you are right that it's okay to eat more of the meat substitutes while loosing weight because they are the easiest to fit the calories. Once I start maintaining I hope to be able to eat more diverse foods and less processed stuff.0 -
I’ve been adjusting my macros lately. I was doing basic CICO without concern for macros, which had worked for me in the past (but I let some weight creep back on ). This time, I found that I was hungry a lot, which didn’t really happen before. When I looked at my macros, I found that that I was eating a lot of fat (35% or so, along with about 18-20% protein), which I suspected was not giving me the nutrients I needed. So I decided to try something different.
Inspired by the Forks Over Knives/The China Study/etc. line of thinking, a few weeks ago I went whole foods, low(er) fat. My macros are now around 65% carbs, 15% protein, 20% fat. (I’ve been shooting for 15% fat, but I haven’t been so good while eating out.) The carbs (and protein) come from whole grains, beans, lentils, veggies, and fruit, with very little added sugars or refined grains. I eat tofu and tempeh, but not as much as before. (Personally, I’m not a fan of processed meat replacers or protein powders.)
I feel really good, I have plenty of energy when I work out, I’m fuller longer, I’m easily exceeding daily vitamin/mineral recommendations, and my weight is moving really well in the right direction. So far it seems this is working for me! We’ll see how it goes long-term.
Also, you may want to take a second look at some of the protein sources you mentioned above as being less than ideal. As a percentage of calories, lentils are 30% protein, black beans are 26% protein, garbanzo beans/chickpeas are 20% protein, oats are 16% protein, etc. There’s a good article on No Meat Athlete about making these ratios work for you.
http://www.nomeatathlete.com/vegan-protein-percentages/
Too many carbs actually seem to leave me hungry. I've done carb refeeds several times and was feeling ravenous all day despite eating more calories than usual. But I definitely do need to have a decent amount of starchy carbs in my meal to feel full. It's all about balance for me, I guess.0 -
Personally, i don't worry about protein. I used to, but eventually i realized that it was not necessary (to worry). People are trained by years of info being put out by industry into believing that protein is something you have to smash in, in large quantities, every few hours, or you waste away to nothing. It's not true.
I eat whole foods, which all contain protein, and enough of it. I eat about a cup of beans a day, plenty of greens and usually some sort of grain, like oatmeal.
If i workout hard, i gain muscle, just like i did when i was eating animals. The only difference now seems to be that my recovery time has decreased, allowing me to exercise more. I also have TONS of energy.5 -
I'm interested to hear what others have to say. I'm veg, but I don't want to go vegan until I'm at maintenance for just this reason. I want to get a minimum of 90 grams of protein a day, but until I up my calories the math just doesn't work out for me on a vegan diet due to the added calories in seeds, beans and nuts and other protein sources.
Right now I'm in the same position as OP where I probably eat more tofu and tofu type products then most people would find normal, but I feel great. I also can't eat nooch because I really hate that stuff.
Like Rocbola, my recovery time has decreased and I have a lot more energy than I ever did eating meat. So that's a win for the fitness side of things.1 -
If anything, many vegan protein sources just require a bigger appetite, and can be very low fat. Take a can of spinach for example. The entire can has about 100 calories and 9 grams of protein. That’s about like a filet of tilapia, but a lot more filling, and a lot higher in fiber. Developing a taste for cooked greens make a plant based diet a lot easier for me. Tofu is reasonably high in protein and low in fat. I have gotten used to cooking without oil. I like to get my fat from avocado, nuts, and coconut cream in recipes, but that’s just bc these are also kind of treats for me, whereas I don’t care to have oil on veggies, or in recipes. I try to get one serving of beans a day.2
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I like peas somewhat but really hate pea power.
I used this rice power in the NutriBullet b/c it had no taste that I noticed: "Nutribiotic Organic Rice Protein, Plain."
I mixed it with coconut water or plain water or soy milk & whatever I had such as romaine, cucumbers, green beans, flaxseed, carrots, a few frozen berries.
Usually I kept the ingredients to about three things --otherwise the solution tasted like a mish mosh.
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LiveLoveFitFab wrote: »I'm interested to hear what others have to say. I'm veg, but I don't want to go vegan until I'm at maintenance for just this reason. I want to get a minimum of 90 grams of protein a day, but until I up my calories the math just doesn't work out for me on a vegan diet due to the added calories in seeds, beans and nuts and other protein sources.
Right now I'm in the same position as OP where I probably eat more tofu and tofu type products then most people would find normal, but I feel great. I also can't eat nooch because I really hate that stuff.
Like Rocbola, my recovery time has decreased and I have a lot more energy than I ever did eating meat. So that's a win for the fitness side of things.
So I've researching the ways to get enough protein a meal without soy or wheat gluten. And a good way to do so is combining beans or lentils as a main source of protein + high protein veggies like brussels sprouts, broccoli, leafy greens or mushrooms (they're all pretty low cal, too, so a good way to add bulk without many calories) + some higher protein grains like bulgur, couscous, quinoa, millet or buckwheat though this is optional, because you can use more beans. Another way is pasta made of beans or lentils. This way you can have yourself a huge meal under 450 calories and over 20-25g of protein.
If you don't mind soy or gluten, look into making home made tempeh and seitan. It's actually super easy. The final product turns out dirt cheap. Edamame beans are nice, too.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I do track my macros. I don't aim to have them balance out within a single day, but I do watch them for the rolling week to make sure I'm getting enough protein and fat.
I'm usually around 50-60% carbohydrates, 20-30% fat, and 15-20% protein. This is what works best for me for energy and satiety and it's been pretty consistent over the 2+ years I've been tracking (I lost about 40 pounds and have been maintaining since fall 2015). As long as I am getting consistent protein and fat, I never worry about limiting carbohydrates. If your only reason for limiting beans is because of their carbohydrate content (not, for example, your calorie goal), I would question if that's necessary. Personally, I have found that higher carbohydrate meals are fine for my satiety as long as I'm getting some protein and fat with them and especially if they're higher in fiber (like a meal with beans would be). You may not be the same as me, but it's something to consider.
When I was losing weight I got most of my protein from tofu, tempeh, seitan, and protein powders. They were the easiest for me to fit in my calories. I also ate beans, but I eat them more now that I'm maintaining. When I was losing weight, I found that a lot of my meals were tofu/tempeh/seitan with a high volume of lower calorie vegetables because it was very easy to fit into my calories, it kept me satisfied, and I really enjoyed it. I'll still have meals like that, but now I'm also eating more grains and I'll often have beans more than once a day.
When I look at the past week for an example, I can see that most of my protein has come from tempeh, hummus, pea protein powder (I've been mixing it with coffee and almond milk in the morning recently), and lentils. I have periods where I have more soy and I may have it for two or even three meals a day.
How does the pea protein powder taste like? What brand do you use? I've been looking for a more-neutral tasting protein powder that is versatile and can be added to smoothies, porridge, for baking etc., kinda like vanilla protein powder. The soy based protein powder I bought recently tastes disgusting, but maybe it's just because of the cheap brand.
My reason for limiting beans is because of my calorie goal. If I didn't have a calorie limit I would eat a lot of beans without a problem and would get enough of protein. But when I already have a significant carbohydrate source in my meal, beans throw my macro ratio off. But I guess I can try swapping grains for beans in some of my meals. It's actually a good idea. And I guess you are right that it's okay to eat more of the meat substitutes while loosing weight because they are the easiest to fit the calories. Once I start maintaining I hope to be able to eat more diverse foods and less processed stuff.
I am currently using the 365 (Whole Foods house brand) protein powder. I mix it with coffee and almond milk, so I don't notice much of a taste. If I was mixing it with just almond milk, the taste might be more of an issue. I have also used it in baking and vegan french toast batter and not had any issues.
I personally had huge success using beans *instead* of grains while I was losing weight. It helped me personally because I was getting the fiber and protein from the beans and it helped me check off the "starchy" box in my meals. If this works for you, I recommend it for any vegan looking to control calories. It's not that I'm anti-grain, they just often were not worth it for me when I was in a deficit (your mileage may vary).
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janejellyroll wrote: »I personally had huge success using beans *instead* of grains while I was losing weight. It helped me personally because I was getting the fiber and protein from the beans and it helped me check off the "starchy" box in my meals. If this works for you, I recommend it for any vegan looking to control calories. It's not that I'm anti-grain, they just often were not worth it for me when I was in a deficit (your mileage may vary).
Yup, this is a good idea! That's what I'm going to try to do know. I figured that if I combine beans with higher protein veggies like kale or brussels spouts, it helps me to get enough protein in a meal. Plus lots of micronutrients. And yeah, beans are really filling due to the combination of protein and fiber. It's my second day trying this. So far, it's great!1 -
Gluten free (medical) and vegan (ethical) here.
I do use soybeans and soy products a lot, but I agree with the above post that beans and legumes can fit in my diet if I avoid starches like rice/potatoes.
I carry a lot of muscle for a gal (former bodybuilder, now fitness lifter) and try to keep my macros above 20% protein....shooting for 30%.
It keeps me full and energized so I am happy. Don’t know for sure if I would lose muscle on less....afraid to try.
Protein smoothies (vegan powder and almond butter, hemp seeds, fruit, and almond milk) get my day off to a solid start.1
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