CICO approach
theyoginurse
Posts: 82 Member
Can someone please explain the CICO (Calories in, calories out) approach and your experience with it?
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Replies
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Some people view it as an approach to weight loss, but that's a bit of a misunderstanding. CICO describes the fundamental energy balance that governs whether an individual loses, maintains, or gains weight. As long as your CI<CO, you should lose weight. So when people say for example, that they tried CICO but it didn't work, they had to go low carb to lose weight, I usually explain that anyone losing weight is doing CICO, since it is not a way of eating and is not synonymous with counting calories.
Now what you may be thinking of are comments from people that say, "you can eat anything you want and still lose, CICO!". A lot of people interpret that as saying that it's ok to eat a diet of primarily junk food and as long as someone is in a deficit they will lose (which is technically true but not necessarily what the person was advocating).
I prefer to think of it as flexible dieting. I eat a variety of foods within the context of a calorie appropriate goal. I focus on foods that provide nutrition (macro and micro nutrients), satiety (fills you up even when eating at a deficit), and enjoyment (nothing wrong with some pizza, wine, or Oreos if you can fit it into your calories and have an otherwise balanced diet).
Hope that helps.21 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Some people view it as an approach to weight loss, but that's a bit of a misunderstanding. CICO describes the fundamental energy balance that governs whether an individual loses, maintains, or gains weight. As long as your CI<CO, you should lose weight. So when people say for example, that they tried CICO but it didn't work, they had to go low carb to lose weight, I usually explain that anyone losing weight is doing CICO, since it is not a way of eating and is not synonymous with counting calories.
Now what you may be thinking of are comments from people that say, "you can eat anything you want and still lose, CICO!". A lot of people interpret that as saying that it's ok to eat a diet of primarily junk food and as long as someone is in a deficit they will lose (which is technically true but not necessarily what the person was advocating).
I prefer to think of it as flexible dieting. I eat a variety of foods within the context of a calorie appropriate goal. I focus on foods that provide nutrition (macro and micro nutrients), satiety (fills you up even when eating at a deficit), and enjoyment (nothing wrong with some pizza, wine, or Oreos if you can fit it into your calories and have an otherwise balanced diet).
Hope that helps.
Your response helped me out so much. Thank you!
My calorie goal to lose 2lbs per week is 1,200 calories per day. As long as I stay below or hit that calorie goal, I should lose weight? I want to have a flexible diet too. Thanks for sharing about that.0 -
theyoginurse wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Some people view it as an approach to weight loss, but that's a bit of a misunderstanding. CICO describes the fundamental energy balance that governs whether an individual loses, maintains, or gains weight. As long as your CI<CO, you should lose weight. So when people say for example, that they tried CICO but it didn't work, they had to go low carb to lose weight, I usually explain that anyone losing weight is doing CICO, since it is not a way of eating and is not synonymous with counting calories.
Now what you may be thinking of are comments from people that say, "you can eat anything you want and still lose, CICO!". A lot of people interpret that as saying that it's ok to eat a diet of primarily junk food and as long as someone is in a deficit they will lose (which is technically true but not necessarily what the person was advocating).
I prefer to think of it as flexible dieting. I eat a variety of foods within the context of a calorie appropriate goal. I focus on foods that provide nutrition (macro and micro nutrients), satiety (fills you up even when eating at a deficit), and enjoyment (nothing wrong with some pizza, wine, or Oreos if you can fit it into your calories and have an otherwise balanced diet).
Hope that helps.
Your response helped me out so much. Thank you!
My calorie goal to lose 2lbs per week is 1,200 calories per day. As long as I stay below or hit that calorie goal, I should lose weight? I want to have a flexible diet too. Thanks for sharing about that.
How much weight are you trying to lose? 2 lb/week is a pretty aggressive goal and usually only recommended for people with 75 or more pounds to lose. Additionally, 1200 is the minimum calorie target for women, so you should be aiming to hit it, not come under it. Also it's a net goal, meaning that it doesn't include exercise. If you do exercise, you should log and eat some of those calories back, to keep your net value at what MFP recommends.3 -
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Thank you for your responses. I have about 40lbs to lose. I cannot lie that I want to lose it as fast as possible, because it came on quickly and I’m uncomfortable in my skin. I accept what you’re saying.3
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theyoginurse wrote: »Thank you for your responses. I have about 40lbs to lose. I cannot lie that I want to lose it as fast as possible, because it came on quickly and I’m uncomfortable in my skin. I accept what you’re saying.
Sure, fast as possible. But fat that goes away fast also tends to come back fast again.
What you REALLY want is slow and steady and permanent, rather than keep doing the yo-yo weight.
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theyoginurse wrote: »Thank you for your responses. I have about 40lbs to lose. I cannot lie that I want to lose it as fast as possible, because it came on quickly and I’m uncomfortable in my skin. I accept what you’re saying.
It's understandable, that's how a lot of people feel when they make up their mind to lose. However, losing too quickly can cause adverse effects like loss of lean body mass and can often set up a cycle of yo yo dieting.
With 40 lbs to lose, a 1 lb/week is an appropriate rate of loss, and likely will lead to a calorie target and an approach you can sustain.
Good luck.2 -
theyoginurse wrote: »Thank you for your responses. I have about 40lbs to lose. I cannot lie that I want to lose it as fast as possible, because it came on quickly and I’m uncomfortable in my skin. I accept what you’re saying.
Do you really, though? Or do you want to lose it and keep it off forever?
Those are 2 completely different goals with vastly different approaches to achieving them.
If the first, then by all means go with as low a calorie count as you can. The weight will come back on quickly and you'll be starting over yet again.
If the second, then work on how to maintain your goal weight which only happens when you practice eating properly while you're losing. And no, you won't learn how to eat appropriately once the weight is gone. That way lies madness.7 -
ladyhusker39 wrote: »theyoginurse wrote: »Thank you for your responses. I have about 40lbs to lose. I cannot lie that I want to lose it as fast as possible, because it came on quickly and I’m uncomfortable in my skin. I accept what you’re saying.
Do you really, though? Or do you want to lose it and keep it off forever?
Those are 2 completely different goals with vastly different approaches to achieving them.
If the first, then by all means go with as low a calorie count as you can. The weight will come back on quickly and you'll be starting over yet again.
If the second, then work on how to maintain your goal weight which only happens when you practice eating properly while you're losing. And no, you won't learn how to eat appropriately once the weight is gone. That way lies madness.
What if the OP loses it all fast and then up the calorie goal to maintain? Not trying to be difficult, just confused on why it has to be one or the other?4 -
I like to use a money analogy, except it's reversed (You want more inflow on money, more outflow on calories).
Your paycheck = calories out
Your expenses = calories in
If you start spending more than you make, it will catch up with you. Not after one meal, one day, or even one week maybe. Same happens when you eat more calories than you burn. It's not the day-to-day numbers that matter, it's your overall average and being consistent.
Say you know the holidays are coming up so you need to save money here and there to get the money to buy gifts etc. Same concept applies to eating; you may know you have a party you're going to attend where you're going to overeat...don't stress! That's the beauty of being flexible; say for a week before the party you eat 100 calories per day less...you just earned 700 calories of "overeating"! Say for that week you ALSO burned an additional 100 calories per day through extra cardio...now you have 1400 calories!
Too many people stress about being perfect every single day when it's your average that counts. And THIS is exactly why a pet peeve of mine is people saying "I'm going on a 30-day diet". That's like saying "I'm broke, so I'm not going to turn my heat on all month". Great, but unless you change your lifestyle, how long after your 30-day diet until you're back in the same exact position??? Sure, use that as a jump start, but if you go back to your old ways (spending or eating), you accomplished nothing. If you can't change your spending or eating habits, then you need more income or to burn more calories!
Hope this helps!2 -
KeithWhiteJr wrote: »ladyhusker39 wrote: »theyoginurse wrote: »Thank you for your responses. I have about 40lbs to lose. I cannot lie that I want to lose it as fast as possible, because it came on quickly and I’m uncomfortable in my skin. I accept what you’re saying.
Do you really, though? Or do you want to lose it and keep it off forever?
Those are 2 completely different goals with vastly different approaches to achieving them.
If the first, then by all means go with as low a calorie count as you can. The weight will come back on quickly and you'll be starting over yet again.
If the second, then work on how to maintain your goal weight which only happens when you practice eating properly while you're losing. And no, you won't learn how to eat appropriately once the weight is gone. That way lies madness.
What if the OP loses it all fast and then up the calorie goal to maintain? Not trying to be difficult, just confused on why it has to be one or the other?
You would have a fairly severe deficit to lose at a faster rate than 2lbs per week, this would most likely result in under-eating and malnutrition, the minimum recommended intake for a woman is 1200 calories to reduce it further you are messing with your body, sure you can lose it fast and find your maintenance but by that point your hair could be falling out, your skin will look rubbish and you could have done some serious damage to your internal organs.
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KeithWhiteJr wrote: »ladyhusker39 wrote: »theyoginurse wrote: »Thank you for your responses. I have about 40lbs to lose. I cannot lie that I want to lose it as fast as possible, because it came on quickly and I’m uncomfortable in my skin. I accept what you’re saying.
Do you really, though? Or do you want to lose it and keep it off forever?
Those are 2 completely different goals with vastly different approaches to achieving them.
If the first, then by all means go with as low a calorie count as you can. The weight will come back on quickly and you'll be starting over yet again.
If the second, then work on how to maintain your goal weight which only happens when you practice eating properly while you're losing. And no, you won't learn how to eat appropriately once the weight is gone. That way lies madness.
What if the OP loses it all fast and then up the calorie goal to maintain? Not trying to be difficult, just confused on why it has to be one or the other?
Cutting calories extremely low and losing rapidly has a lot of potential negative effects including hair loss, sallow skin, fatigue, brittle nails, loss of lean body mass and potentially organ damage. The OP isn't describing that extreme of an approach, but losing rapidly then trying to switch rapidly to maintenance with additional 1000 or more calories per day is a tough adjustment. It often sets people up for cycles of yoyo dieting.3 -
KeithWhiteJr wrote: »ladyhusker39 wrote: »theyoginurse wrote: »Thank you for your responses. I have about 40lbs to lose. I cannot lie that I want to lose it as fast as possible, because it came on quickly and I’m uncomfortable in my skin. I accept what you’re saying.
Do you really, though? Or do you want to lose it and keep it off forever?
Those are 2 completely different goals with vastly different approaches to achieving them.
If the first, then by all means go with as low a calorie count as you can. The weight will come back on quickly and you'll be starting over yet again.
If the second, then work on how to maintain your goal weight which only happens when you practice eating properly while you're losing. And no, you won't learn how to eat appropriately once the weight is gone. That way lies madness.
What if the OP loses it all fast and then up the calorie goal to maintain? Not trying to be difficult, just confused on why it has to be one or the other?
You're not being difficult. That's a perfectly valid question and shows that you're interesting in understanding which is great.
Essentially, she won't have learned HOW to maintain her goal weight. The reason to go slowly is to learn the skill of eating at your goal weight.
There's the theory that you can learn to maintain after the weight is gone and then there's the reality that almost no one manages to actually do that. There are a few red flags in OP's comments that strongly indicate that she will not succeed in keeping the weight off if all she's focused on is losing the weight as quickly as possible.
I was suggesting that she would ultimately be more successful if she shifted her mindset from losing weight quickly to staying at a healthy weight for life. It's just something to consider when we're deciding on our goals.
I hope that makes sense. It's actually a lot more than can by typed in a response to a forum post.1 -
To give an idea about what can happen as a result of extreme dieting, in a bid to lose weight fast, here's a link to a recent UK article about a woman who lost weight too quickly http://metro.co.uk/2017/09/25/woman-explains-how-extreme-dieting-left-her-mute-for-ten-months-6953887/1
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You could try cycling your calories where you eat differently on each day according to your activities. I don't have a set number these days but on average I'm eating 2000 calories a day. My TDEE according to calculators is 2400-2500 (or even 2600 if I'm super active) so I'm losing weight slowly but this time it's more permanent. Even then it's better to lose it slower than fast and then yoyo which is what I've done in the past. I've got 28 lbs left to lose and my target is by next May I should be at my goal weight of 128lbs. On the days where I'm being a slob or don't want to exercise I only eat 1200 BUT I make sure I keep my protein high 90-100g to stop losing muscle tissue. I've found that when I don't eat enough protein bad things happen...oh and I also have PCOS so that's another battle for me. I have a dinner party tomorrow so today I'm only eating 1200 calories but tomorrow I'm planning on eating upto 3000 calories. It all balances out in the end.2
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KeithWhiteJr wrote: »ladyhusker39 wrote: »theyoginurse wrote: »Thank you for your responses. I have about 40lbs to lose. I cannot lie that I want to lose it as fast as possible, because it came on quickly and I’m uncomfortable in my skin. I accept what you’re saying.
Do you really, though? Or do you want to lose it and keep it off forever?
Those are 2 completely different goals with vastly different approaches to achieving them.
If the first, then by all means go with as low a calorie count as you can. The weight will come back on quickly and you'll be starting over yet again.
If the second, then work on how to maintain your goal weight which only happens when you practice eating properly while you're losing. And no, you won't learn how to eat appropriately once the weight is gone. That way lies madness.
What if the OP loses it all fast and then up the calorie goal to maintain? Not trying to be difficult, just confused on why it has to be one or the other?
Merely stats - the fact a good majority of dieters that even reach goal weight don't keep it off - because of all the reasons others mentioned.
True, OP could be the unique one - but sadly that is only discovered after the fact.
Or can look back and review how many diet attempts have been started in the past.
How many exercise programs have been started in the past.
How long did those things last.
That may answer the question.
The quick part also messes up some hormones and body adaptation that can cause you to have to maintain on less calories than otherwise, or exercise a lot extra to compensate - for a long long time.
So merely some common terms led to the above comments that a weight loss goal number and reaching it fast - as opposed to healthy life and body view, is a bad sign normally.1 -
I appreciate everyone’s support and insight. I only chose 2lbs a week as my goal because it says a healthy weight loss is 1-2lbs per week. It was an option on MFP, and I would be lying if I said I don’t want to lose this weight as fast as possible. At the same time, I am here because I don’t want to do extremes, and want to learn a flexible way of eating (CICO). That’s why I wrote this discussion for more information.
I absolutely agree that learning to maintain will not happen after the weight is lost. Been there, done that! I really appreciate the Poster who helped me understand how to eat during holidays. And that this is about longrun not short term. I will likely increase my caloric intake to 1,400 daily which is reasonable for me. And see how my body adjust. If I am starving, I will always track and take note of what to do.2 -
Well - "only 2lbs a week" is actually the max.
In other words, also the minimum to eat.
I'd suggest that if the weight loss options was kind of unknown, then you are likely not as knowledgable as you'll become - so "1400 daily which is reasonable to me" is based on what as far as experience?
It is better than 1200.
But that 1200 was also on days that are ONLY your selected activity level - and did you select Sedentary?
Days you actually exercise should be more.
And your screen name - are you a nurse?
A sitting 8 hr a day nurse, with no kids or pets keeping you active in the evenings?
That would indeed be sedentary activity level on average if you selected it.
Also, if you get to point of feeling starving - your body has already started to adapt.0 -
Well - "only 2lbs a week" is actually the max.
In other words, also the minimum to eat.
I'd suggest that if the weight loss options was kind of unknown, then you are likely not as knowledgable as you'll become - so "1400 daily which is reasonable to me" is based on what as far as experience?
It is better than 1200.
But that 1200 was also on days that are ONLY your selected activity level - and did you select Sedentary?
Days you actually exercise should be more.
And your screen name - are you a nurse?
A sitting 8 hr a day nurse, with no kids or pets keeping you active in the evenings?
That would indeed be sedentary activity level on average if you selected it.
Also, if you get to point of feeling starving - your body has already started to adapt.
I chose the lightly active because at my job I do mostly paperwork and standup and down when providing patient care- but it is not intense. I used the word “only” to not say “only lose 2lbs”, I said “only chose” because that really is the only reason I chose the 2lb-loss plan.
The caloric intake of 1200 is from my past experience. I was on a prescribed plan by a dietician which was 1200 and I lost weight on this plan. She allowed me to eat as much non-starchy vegetables as I wanted, which is why I estimated I was eating 1400 per day.
The reason I did not maintain my weight loss was because it was a strict diet which eliminated certain food groups. I like MFP because it’s flexible dieting.
My thread discussion was to find out more information on the CICO approach. I appreciate the insight and support about how many calories I’m intaking. Which is why I’m experimenting with this right now.0 -
It's already been covered, but let me reiterate:
CICO isn't an approach. Flexible dieting, calorie counting, IIFYM, keto, Weight Watchers, etc. are approaches. CICO (energy balance) is the root cause behind why people gain, maintain, or lose weight rather than a specific way of eating. To lose weight, you must consume fewer calories than your body uses no matter which approach you choose.2 -
It's the absolute basics of weight gain and loss. I don't like games and fluff, just hands on straight to the actual science fact of it is nice and simple. Any diet or eating choice you've ever heard of that alters weight adheres to the principle that if calories out is more than calories in, then weight will drop, and vice versa.2
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It's already been covered, but let me reiterate:
CICO isn't an approach. Flexible dieting, calorie counting, IIFYM, keto, Weight Watchers, etc. are approaches. CICO (energy balance) is the root cause behind why people gain, maintain, or lose weight rather than a specific way of eating. To lose weight, you must consume fewer calories than your body uses no matter which approach you choose.MelanieCN77 wrote: »It's the absolute basics of weight gain and loss. I don't like games and fluff, just hands on straight to the actual science fact of it is nice and simple. Any diet or eating choice you've ever heard of that alters weight adheres to the principle that if calories out is more than calories in, then weight will drop, and vice versa.
Thank you both so much for your comment. I get it and for the first time in awhile, I feel empowered and not hungry at all. Because there’s no rules. And it is simple.1
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