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Should junk food be taxed?
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Extremely heavily.1
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lemurcat12 wrote: »To add on to janejellyroll's post (and my own prior):
Eating fresh fruit off season is expensive, but remember in the past it simply was not possible.
Eating frozen fruit off season is much cheaper and probably much more available than in the past.
Produce is not more expensive for the average person than in the past, in fact, in terms of percentage of income it's much cheaper (I'm sure for those who would have been on a farm this would be different). Food as a whole is cheaper, at least in the US and many other places, in real terms than ever before, especially things like meat, eggs, cheese, and more available (year-round produce, varieties of produce, so on). The staples (what many more people would have lived on in the past) like dried beans, basic starches (rice, flour, other grains) are as cheap as ever. So when people claim the reason people can't eat healthfully is cost, that's just not so. What people expect in terms of time is different, and they also have many more other options that are also cheaply available, but it is again important to note that having more options is not a bad thing and does not take away options from you. That flour is cheap and you may eschew flour or cuts of meat you don't want cheap or even preprepared meals cheap (although in my supermarket they seem far more expensive compared to cooking for one's self) or various snack items cheap does not make other food items more expensive.
In other words, if you want to buy fruits and veg saying junk food is too cheap/making it more expensive does nothing to make fruits and veg cheaper.
Well said. There was *never* a time when people were able to eat a wide variety of fresh fruits and vegetables year-round and have it make up a small portion of their food budget (and it's only very recently, relatively, that people were able to eat a wide variety of fresh fruits and vegetables even if they were able to pay larger amounts).
There was never a time when people were able to eat fresh apples, bananas, pineapple, melon, and berries at the same time and at a low cost. For most of history, fruit and vegetables were a seasonal experience strongly influenced by what fruits grew around you. There is a reason why children used to get excited about an orange in their Christmas stocking.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »To add on to janejellyroll's post (and my own prior):
Eating fresh fruit off season is expensive, but remember in the past it simply was not possible.
Eating frozen fruit off season is much cheaper and probably much more available than in the past.
I find myself having to point this out frequently as well. So many people whine about the price of "healthy food" when the expense is due to specifically buying stuff that wouldn't even have been available to buy at all at any price in their region years ago.4 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »To add on to janejellyroll's post (and my own prior):
Eating fresh fruit off season is expensive, but remember in the past it simply was not possible.
Eating frozen fruit off season is much cheaper and probably much more available than in the past.
I find myself having to point this out frequently as well. So many people whine about the price of "healthy food" when the expense is due to specifically buying stuff that wouldn't even have been available to buy at all at any price in their region years ago.
Yep, you have to buy in season. I live on the mid-atlantic coast of the US, and the only fresh produce that is cheap year round is bananas, potatoes, carrots, onions, and cabbage. In the fall and winter, apples and pears are inexpensive, and squash is pretty easy to fit in too. Once the spring hits, the berries and peaches of all different varieties start to come down until they hit their cheapest at the beginning of the summer. Same with citrus. You can get some good sales on melons over the summer, but they're never really inexpensive. Different greens become affordable at different times of the year.
Back when we had to eat all natural because shipping and manufacturing wasn't what it is now, the average Northeasterner would have never even seen half the stuff available in modern produce sections today! Someone living off the land would have had a small variety of fruits or vegetables that they ate every day. No pineapples, mangoes, melons, bananas, etc.
In general, people who say it is too expensive to eat healthy have a very precious definition of "healthy". In season fresh produce, frozen produce, dried and canned beans, bulk grains, bulk chicken parts, eggs, etc are about as inexpensive as you can get generally, no "junk food" tax required. The issue isn't cost - it's education and priorities.5 -
WinoGelato wrote: »
Right or wrong Mexico came up with a definition and implemented a tax:
"In 2014, Mexico instituted an 8 percent tax on processed foods that had more than 275 calories per 100 grams, in an attempt to reduce junk food purchases, the Associated Press reported"
https://www.eater.com/2016/7/6/12107050/mexico-junk-food-tax-success1 -
stevencloser wrote: »summerkissed wrote: »mrsharmon622 wrote: »I believe the thinking about the price of fruit and chips is that they can both be snacks or sides to a sandwich. If you're limited on funds, then you may only be able to choose one snack item and the chips are cheaper. I'll admit I'm faced with that choice often. Although bananas are usually pretty cheap, chips are a much cheaper option than oranges or grapes, even apples unless they're on sale. If the fruits were cheaper, it would be easier to choose them instead of chips. But if the chips have a tax to increase the price, then it may be that neither fruit or chips will be purchased.
Exactly!!!
We can buy fries in the freezer section for $1.89 kg fresh spuds are $6kg.....
But the average person that's not thinking of nutrition or health or is short on money walks into the supermarket....thinks of something for kids to snack on buys a block of chocolate, bag of chips and bottle of soft drink....under $5
I walk into supermarket after school snack ....fruit platter and some cheese sticks......250gm punnet strawberries $2.50 a melon $3.90 couple of apples $2.
I think we need to think from the average person. Not comparing price per kg of a bag of chips to a kg of spuds
Make the fruit and veg cheaper. We don't pay tax on fresh fruit and veg, but the mark up from the farmer to the supermarkets is massive!!!! We already pay a 10% gst on other foods yet it's so so cheap!!! Something needs to be done about the supermarkets and there pricing structures!!
6 dollars for a kilo of potatoes? Where do you live? Do you need to import them or what? Even organic potatoes are cheaper than your fries over here.
Actually we are a spud growing town!!! Yup paddocks and paddocks of them!! We also live remote and only have 1 supermarket....we do grow our own they just went in this week! We are also known as the Apple isle yet our home grown apples go to Japan and we pay top dollar for the left overs
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summerkissed wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »summerkissed wrote: »mrsharmon622 wrote: »I believe the thinking about the price of fruit and chips is that they can both be snacks or sides to a sandwich. If you're limited on funds, then you may only be able to choose one snack item and the chips are cheaper. I'll admit I'm faced with that choice often. Although bananas are usually pretty cheap, chips are a much cheaper option than oranges or grapes, even apples unless they're on sale. If the fruits were cheaper, it would be easier to choose them instead of chips. But if the chips have a tax to increase the price, then it may be that neither fruit or chips will be purchased.
Exactly!!!
We can buy fries in the freezer section for $1.89 kg fresh spuds are $6kg.....
But the average person that's not thinking of nutrition or health or is short on money walks into the supermarket....thinks of something for kids to snack on buys a block of chocolate, bag of chips and bottle of soft drink....under $5
I walk into supermarket after school snack ....fruit platter and some cheese sticks......250gm punnet strawberries $2.50 a melon $3.90 couple of apples $2.
I think we need to think from the average person. Not comparing price per kg of a bag of chips to a kg of spuds
Make the fruit and veg cheaper. We don't pay tax on fresh fruit and veg, but the mark up from the farmer to the supermarkets is massive!!!! We already pay a 10% gst on other foods yet it's so so cheap!!! Something needs to be done about the supermarkets and there pricing structures!!
6 dollars for a kilo of potatoes? Where do you live? Do you need to import them or what? Even organic potatoes are cheaper than your fries over here.
Actually we are a spud growing town!!! Yup paddocks and paddocks of them!! We also live remote and only have 1 supermarket....we do grow our own they just went in this week! We are also known as the Apple isle yet our home grown apples go to Japan and we pay top dollar for the left overs
If your spuds are grown right around the corner I can understand even less why they're so expensive. The cheaper ones are 72 cents per kilo here.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »summerkissed wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »summerkissed wrote: »mrsharmon622 wrote: »I believe the thinking about the price of fruit and chips is that they can both be snacks or sides to a sandwich. If you're limited on funds, then you may only be able to choose one snack item and the chips are cheaper. I'll admit I'm faced with that choice often. Although bananas are usually pretty cheap, chips are a much cheaper option than oranges or grapes, even apples unless they're on sale. If the fruits were cheaper, it would be easier to choose them instead of chips. But if the chips have a tax to increase the price, then it may be that neither fruit or chips will be purchased.
Exactly!!!
We can buy fries in the freezer section for $1.89 kg fresh spuds are $6kg.....
But the average person that's not thinking of nutrition or health or is short on money walks into the supermarket....thinks of something for kids to snack on buys a block of chocolate, bag of chips and bottle of soft drink....under $5
I walk into supermarket after school snack ....fruit platter and some cheese sticks......250gm punnet strawberries $2.50 a melon $3.90 couple of apples $2.
I think we need to think from the average person. Not comparing price per kg of a bag of chips to a kg of spuds
Make the fruit and veg cheaper. We don't pay tax on fresh fruit and veg, but the mark up from the farmer to the supermarkets is massive!!!! We already pay a 10% gst on other foods yet it's so so cheap!!! Something needs to be done about the supermarkets and there pricing structures!!
6 dollars for a kilo of potatoes? Where do you live? Do you need to import them or what? Even organic potatoes are cheaper than your fries over here.
Actually we are a spud growing town!!! Yup paddocks and paddocks of them!! We also live remote and only have 1 supermarket....we do grow our own they just went in this week! We are also known as the Apple isle yet our home grown apples go to Japan and we pay top dollar for the left overs
If your spuds are grown right around the corner I can understand even less why they're so expensive. The cheaper ones are 72 cents per kilo here.
Welcome to the Australian state called Tasmania!!! I wish I could put up a photo of our weekly supermarket catalog0 -
We actually have a special on spuds this week!!!! Tassie grown $2.50kg!!!!!! Funny thing is farmers only planted last week......so they are last year's potatoes!!!0
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lemurcat12 wrote: »To add on to janejellyroll's post (and my own prior):
Eating fresh fruit off season is expensive, but remember in the past it simply was not possible.
Eating frozen fruit off season is much cheaper and probably much more available than in the past.
I find myself having to point this out frequently as well. So many people whine about the price of "healthy food" when the expense is due to specifically buying stuff that wouldn't even have been available to buy at all at any price in their region years ago.
Yep, you have to buy in season. I live on the mid-atlantic coast of the US, and the only fresh produce that is cheap year round is bananas, potatoes, carrots, onions, and cabbage. In the fall and winter, apples and pears are inexpensive, and squash is pretty easy to fit in too. Once the spring hits, the berries and peaches of all different varieties start to come down until they hit their cheapest at the beginning of the summer. Same with citrus. You can get some good sales on melons over the summer, but they're never really inexpensive. Different greens become affordable at different times of the year.
Back when we had to eat all natural because shipping and manufacturing wasn't what it is now, the average Northeasterner would have never even seen half the stuff available in modern produce sections today! Someone living off the land would have had a small variety of fruits or vegetables that they ate every day. No pineapples, mangoes, melons, bananas, etc.
In general, people who say it is too expensive to eat healthy have a very precious definition of "healthy". In season fresh produce, frozen produce, dried and canned beans, bulk grains, bulk chicken parts, eggs, etc are about as inexpensive as you can get generally, no "junk food" tax required. The issue isn't cost - it's education and priorities.
And many are toting the latest smartphone SMH.1 -
Define junk food:
Would Jolly Ranchers be taxed equally for people with Type 1 diabetes, who generally need a massive sugar rush every once in a while so it would fall under medically necessary.
How about meats:. Ask most vegans and a lot of vegatarians and meat is considered junk
Would beef be taxed? What if it's the same beef but in a pre-shaped hamburger patty?
Sports drinks? Extra tax because of the sugar content, or not because they do serve a purpose in cases of dehydration and low salts.
Most places food is not taxed, and things that fall under candy, soda or other pre-made treats are taxed.2 -
svetskisampion wrote: »Give a diabetic two spoons of sugar and we'll see the correlation. There are so many foods out there with hidden sugars which are the cause for so many health issues. If you think sugars and processed foods are not the leading cause for the health epidemics in the western world, you are entitled to that opinion. However I strongly believe what you shovel down your throat has the greater impact and I stand by that whole heartedly.
Just because something is bad for someone with a specific condition doesn't necessarily mean it's harmful to a healthy person. That sort of thinking is how we got to the now debunked theory that protein is damaging to your kidneys.
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Define junk food:
Would Jolly Ranchers be taxed equally for people with Type 1 diabetes, who generally need a massive sugar rush every once in a while so it would fall under medically necessary.
How about meats:. Ask most vegans and a lot of vegatarians and meat is considered junk
Would beef be taxed? What if it's the same beef but in a pre-shaped hamburger patty?
Sports drinks? Extra tax because of the sugar content, or not because they do serve a purpose in cases of dehydration and low salts.
Most places food is not taxed, and things that fall under candy, soda or other pre-made treats are taxed.
Mexico figured it out: https://www.eater.com/2016/7/6/12107050/mexico-junk-food-tax-success
"In 2014, Mexico instituted an 8 percent tax on processed foods that had more than 275 calories per 100 grams, in an attempt to reduce junk food purchases"
Not saying this is right, wrong or indifferent, but yes, you can come up with a definition.0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »
Mexico figured it out: https://www.eater.com/2016/7/6/12107050/mexico-junk-food-tax-success
"In 2014, Mexico instituted an 8 percent tax on processed foods that had more than 275 calories per 100 grams, in an attempt to reduce junk food purchases"
Not saying this is right, wrong or indifferent, but yes, you can come up with a definition.
You can define anything. However, whether that definition is useful is another story. Most people wouldn't consider nuts, seeds, or ground beef to be junk food, but apparently mexico does.
I think there's an inherent assumption when people say it's hard to define that we're talking about a definition that makes logical sense, and with that benchmark I don't think mexico's law qualifies.1 -
no, healthy food should be more accessible and more cost effective. fresh fruit is expensive, but you can get a bag of chips for like $2.001
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Not that I'm for a junk food tax, but kudos to Mexico for going with a logical analytical definition using calorie density instead of random subjective ideas of "junk food".2
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Isn't it already taxed??? Everything is taxed 6% in my state. Luxury items like cigarettes, beer, and liquor are taxed at higher rates. And when they legalize pot, and they will, it will be taxed higher. I accept that because my state needs money. These things need definitions the IRS can understand and the problem with that is the very definition. With the prior mentioned those things have definable active ingredients, Nicotine, Alcohol, THC. Once you define what is junk, whatever is in a twinkie or has hfcs in it, etc. Companies will just rebrand their junk to gluten free, fat free, sugar free, contains all natural ingredients, blah, blah, blah. I literally saw a box of Peeps today, that said Always gluten free, and fat free - Marshmallow Chicks. I laughed, Because who likes Marshmallow Chicks. Anyhoo. Good luck defining junk. As a liberal type person, I want more funding for infrastructure. We need better roads, we need fiber optics, we need to upgrade the electrical grid, we need to protect and fix our schools. These things cost money. But making up a definition for junk food is a lost cause. Lets say you decide to tax HFCS, people will start using Agave Syrup and call it healthy instead. You'd be chasing your tail forever.
[post edited by MFP moderator]6 -
All food is taxed where I live.0
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Packerjohn wrote: »Define junk food:
Would Jolly Ranchers be taxed equally for people with Type 1 diabetes, who generally need a massive sugar rush every once in a while so it would fall under medically necessary.
How about meats:. Ask most vegans and a lot of vegatarians and meat is considered junk
Would beef be taxed? What if it's the same beef but in a pre-shaped hamburger patty?
Sports drinks? Extra tax because of the sugar content, or not because they do serve a purpose in cases of dehydration and low salts.
Most places food is not taxed, and things that fall under candy, soda or other pre-made treats are taxed.
Mexico figured it out: https://www.eater.com/2016/7/6/12107050/mexico-junk-food-tax-success
"In 2014, Mexico instituted an 8 percent tax on processed foods that had more than 275 calories per 100 grams, in an attempt to reduce junk food purchases"
Not saying this is right, wrong or indifferent, but yes, you can come up with a definition.
So they're taxing an extra 8% on foods like nut butters and coconut oil? I don't consider that to be a very elegant solution, to be honest.1
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