Regain after Gastric Bypass
Replies
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Aaron_K123 wrote: »
Okay so now I am confused again. Based on what you said here in what way do you actually disagree with what I said? I was saying that the weight loss surgery itself doesn't prepare you for maintenance and if you opted to have surgery you clearly struggled with eating in a way that allowed you to lose weight consistently. That eventually you would have to come to terms with the underlying issues surrounding your weight gain or you won't be able to maintain after surgery. Based on what you said here it seems to me like you agree with all of that.
I was just telling the OP that her focus should be on learning the tools necessary that are used for weight loss (calorie counting, meal prep, figuring out ones TDEE) since they are also used for controlled maintenance. I was adding that I assumed if she opted for surgery she hadn't quite gotten a handle on those yet because if she had the surgery would not have been necessary. So what about that do you disagree with?
As for the OP not weighing in I understand that I just chose to apologize to the OP if I at all offended them because your posts did rightfully point out I don't have experience or full understanding of all that goes along with weightloss surgery. The OP was the one asking for advice not you so I apologized to her.
I disagree with the continued, underlying assumption that a person would opt for surgery because they have not gotten a handle on the tools necessary for weight loss and controlled maintenance. It's really incredibly assumptive and closed-minded, and for someone that has repeatedly stated he knows nothing about the process, it also comes off as insulting. A decent % of surgery recipients have proven successful adherence and small success in traditional CICO and that's precisely why they are considered optimal candidates for surgical intervention. You talk about it like a person just walks in and says "I'm fat, please fix me cuz I can't do it myself." when the reality of the situation is, patients walk in saying "I know I need professional help that is beyond my capacity to manage on my own, please help me be a healthier person." That management is NOT about eating habits exclusively, though for some it might be. In fact, if you struggle with compulsive eating disorder, have had uncontrollable binges, stuff like that? You don't get to do surgery.
A person cannot be successful with surgery without willpower, perseverance and dedication. PERIOD.
No, a patient didn't "clearly struggle with eating in a way that allowed you to lose weight consistently." There are many established medical reasons why surgery becomes a part of the equation, and not all surgical candidates are incapable of monitoring their food intake. Many candidates are doing it because all traditional methods are failing and thus, employing the changes to digestion (which again, nothing to do with eating style and you cannot do this without surgery) is what propels the weight loss more than anything. It's not a "clear" indication of struggling to adhere to a plan. It's a clear indication that more aggressive tactics are needed than plugging into a calculator and counting estimated calories.
I've repeatedly stated that there is more to it than restriction from a physical standpoint, and frankly, I'm not going to continue repeating myself.
Your initial message to OP was that your problem with it is that WLS does not provide a method that is sustainable for a lifetime of success. That's the very first thing you said in this thread. THAT, I have a problem with. I've yet to meet a recipient, other than those that travel to Mexico for elective procedures, that did not go through a rigorous and thorough education program and at least 2 years of medical monitoring. It's a serious, lifelong, life-altering procedure and I'm tired of people acting like it's for the lazy and those that can't control themselves... because the reality is? If you are considered lazy and unable to control yourself, you'll be disqualified as a candidate for surgery.
Now, please, go educate yourself on the subject. Thanks
You know, I understand the defensive tone in your post because as a surgery patient I have felt defensive at times too, but @Aaron_K123 is not trying to be offensive in any way and he admittedly isn't an expert on the subject of WLS. He's trying to understand. I think a better approach might be to share experiences openly and respectfully, because one really great way people can "go educate" themselves is if people with experience share and have open, respectful dialogue.17 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »
Okay so now I am confused again. Based on what you said here in what way do you actually disagree with what I said? I was saying that the weight loss surgery itself doesn't prepare you for maintenance and if you opted to have surgery you clearly struggled with eating in a way that allowed you to lose weight consistently. That eventually you would have to come to terms with the underlying issues surrounding your weight gain or you won't be able to maintain after surgery. Based on what you said here it seems to me like you agree with all of that.
I was just telling the OP that her focus should be on learning the tools necessary that are used for weight loss (calorie counting, meal prep, figuring out ones TDEE) since they are also used for controlled maintenance. I was adding that I assumed if she opted for surgery she hadn't quite gotten a handle on those yet because if she had the surgery would not have been necessary. So what about that do you disagree with?
As for the OP not weighing in I understand that I just chose to apologize to the OP if I at all offended them because your posts did rightfully point out I don't have experience or full understanding of all that goes along with weightloss surgery. The OP was the one asking for advice not you so I apologized to her.
I disagree with the continued, underlying assumption that a person would opt for surgery because they have not gotten a handle on the tools necessary for weight loss and controlled maintenance. It's really incredibly assumptive and closed-minded, and for someone that has repeatedly stated he knows nothing about the process, it also comes off as insulting. A decent % of surgery recipients have proven successful adherence and small success in traditional CICO and that's precisely why they are considered optimal candidates for surgical intervention. You talk about it like a person just walks in and says "I'm fat, please fix me cuz I can't do it myself." when the reality of the situation is, patients walk in saying "I know I need professional help that is beyond my capacity to manage on my own, please help me be a healthier person." That management is NOT about eating habits exclusively, though for some it might be. In fact, if you struggle with compulsive eating disorder, have had uncontrollable binges, stuff like that? You don't get to do surgery.
A person cannot be successful with surgery without willpower, perseverance and dedication. PERIOD.
No, a patient didn't "clearly struggle with eating in a way that allowed you to lose weight consistently." There are many established medical reasons why surgery becomes a part of the equation, and not all surgical candidates are incapable of monitoring their food intake. Many candidates are doing it because all traditional methods are failing and thus, employing the changes to digestion (which again, nothing to do with eating style and you cannot do this without surgery) is what propels the weight loss more than anything. It's not a "clear" indication of struggling to adhere to a plan. It's a clear indication that more aggressive tactics are needed than plugging into a calculator and counting estimated calories.
I've repeatedly stated that there is more to it than restriction from a physical standpoint, and frankly, I'm not going to continue repeating myself.
Your initial message to OP was that your problem with it is that WLS does not provide a method that is sustainable for a lifetime of success. That's the very first thing you said in this thread. THAT, I have a problem with. I've yet to meet a recipient, other than those that travel to Mexico for elective procedures, that did not go through a rigorous and thorough education program and at least 2 years of medical monitoring. It's a serious, lifelong, life-altering procedure and I'm tired of people acting like it's for the lazy and those that can't control themselves... because the reality is? If you are considered lazy and unable to control yourself, you'll be disqualified as a candidate for surgery.
Now, please, go educate yourself on the subject. Thanks
I am not trying to offend and I have offered numerous times now to walk away if I am offending people. If that is your wish just say so. It is hard for me to walk away if I keep being engaged though as I feel like I should respond if someone makes a post directed towards me.
I'm sorry but I do not think it is a huge leap to make the assumption that someone who is morbidly obese enough to require weight loss surgery does not have a lot of personal experience maintaining their weight. I also don't think it is unfair to assume that someone who is experienced in weight maintenance would not have required surgery because if they were maintaining their weight in the past then they at somepoint were at their desired weight and if they were skilled at weight maintenance they wouldn't have reached a point that would require surgery. Is it really that big of a logical leap to make to think that people who have reached a state of morbid obesity have some issues with weight maintenance? Not even to mention this is literally a post about how weight maintenance has been an issue for the OP.
To maintain your weight you have to be at a weight you wish to maintain. You talk about how important it is to have experience in a matter before addressing it. I would think that someone who is struggling to maintain their weight regardless of their circumstances would benefit from talking with people who have been long term successful in maintaining their weight. I agree I have nothing experientially to add to matters of weight loss surgery itself, but to the matter of weight maintenance the answers are the same regardless of the path you took to reach your goal weight.
If someone who had weight loss surgery wants to know how to maintain their weight the best person they could talk to would be a person who had weight loss surgery and then successfully maintained their goal weight long term. The second best person they could talk to would be a person who just managed to maintain their weight long term regardless of whether or not they had surgery. Talking to someone who had the surgery but did not maintain their weight would not be as useful. Experience here isn't all about the surgery. Experience with the surgery would be needed if the question was about the surgery.19 -
Full disclosure: I have not had this surgery. However, my SIL had it and my sister got the sleeve. Both committed to a strategy just to get to the surgery, and both regained. I am close to both, so I’ve watched their struggles. I see two issues: one excercises, but doesn’t work very hard at all at it, the other does not exercise much at all. Both eat appalling things. They’re both smart, educated women who both are complete victims of their compulsive overeating. (I am also a compulsive overeater, but get enough exercise to just be mildly obese rather than morbidly so. I get the issue totally). Now that they are limited in how and what they can eat, they actually feel MORE out of control than they did before surgery. And more failures.
I hope you can find some really supportive people who have had this surgery, had the regain, and tackled the underlying issues. It is a huge mountain to climb, and good companions will make it so much easier.
Blessings.13 -
I have not read all the comment but I glanced at a few. Why did I choose gastric bypass. Because I had yo yod my whole life I lost over 100 pounds on my own many time for it to come back. I was at the point where I had plantar fasciitis so bad I couldn't walk in the morning. My feet and legs hurts ALL day every day. One day I was laying in bed watching my 4 year old play alone outside and I knew something had to be done NOW. I went to a seminar and was presented with the "weight stays off" thing and went for it. I went from 330 to 199 in 7 months.
Life changed then. I started dating. Dating is what led to the weight creeping on. I regained 30 over the next 12 months. I met a man fell in love GOT COMFORTABLE. never shared my weight loss journey with him and accompanied him on fast food and restaurant trips almost nightly. little by little the weight came back. we got married I stopped caring about weight and before I knew it had gained 60 that year.
We are now trying to get back to healthy together but I wondered what effect my previous surgery would have.
I saw my dietician and was recommended 800-1000 calories and 100 g of protein a day.
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also I believe the biggest sabbatoge was alcohol. liquid calories0
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Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Yeah I'll just say without experience or a lot of knowledge of all the options and why people would opt to do something like this it is probably better that I don't weigh in. I'll admit I don't understand how surgery is a fix to the underlying issues rather than the symptoms, but that is okay this isn't about me understanding it is about you seeking advice from people who might have suggestions that do understand your situation. Since that isn't me I probably shouldn't have said anything so if I made you uncomfortable at all my apologies.
As for the OP not weighing in I understand that I just chose to apologize to the OP if I at all offended them because your posts did rightfully point out I don't have experience or full understanding of all that goes along with weightloss surgery. The OP was the one asking for advice not you so I apologized to her.
I don't get offended
I wish MFP gave you notification like FB and I could have responded throughout the thread better0 -
That's a lesson. Thank you for sharing. I'm interested in someone now and fortunately he's really thin and doesn't each much. There is no temptation when we go out. But I haven't mentioned I'm trying to lose. We aren't serious but if it does I will tell him. I haven't told anyone about my dieting except my mom.
It's good that your husband is supportive.0 -
I have not read all the comment but I glanced at a few. Why did I choose gastric bypass. Because I had yo yod my whole life I lost over 100 pounds on my own many time for it to come back. I was at the point where I had plantar fasciitis so bad I couldn't walk in the morning. My feet and legs hurts ALL day every day. One day I was laying in bed watching my 4 year old play alone outside and I knew something had to be done NOW. I went to a seminar and was presented with the "weight stays off" thing and went for it. I went from 330 to 199 in 7 months.
Life changed then. I started dating. Dating is what led to the weight creeping on. I regained 30 over the next 12 months. I met a man fell in love GOT COMFORTABLE. never shared my weight loss journey with him and accompanied him on fast food and restaurant trips almost nightly. little by little the weight came back. we got married I stopped caring about weight and before I knew it had gained 60 that year.
We are now trying to get back to healthy together but I wondered what effect my previous surgery would have.
I saw my dietician and was recommended 800-1000 calories and 100 g of protein a day.
I get this totally. When I lost a ton of weight and started dating, I contemplated whether or not to share the fact that I had surgery. I decided to that in order to stay successful, I had to be honest about it. No one I dated had any issues with it, in fact, they were accommodating and supportive. If they weren't, that would have been a sign that they just weren't right for me.
I think part of the reason that there is a stigma attached to weight loss surgery is that not everyone is forthcoming about it so a lot of people don't understand what's really involved, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Also, people only tend to "hear" the negatives. It's natural to want to protect your privacy and not discuss it, but sometimes what we don't say contributes to that vicious circle of lack of knowledge, misunderstanding, judgment, uninformed opinions etc.
I lost 200 lbs and had about 30 lbs of regain. I am chipping away at that regain now by using MFP for tracking and going back to post - WLS basics. I also still attend support groups and therapy and do everything I can to keep myself focused. I know what to do. I still consider myself a total success, because I am super healthy, super happy, and my quality of life is awesome.
All that said, WLS or not, there is still a lot of work involved in getting and staying healthy, and personally, I like to keep an open mind and hear what others have to share, because I just might learn something :-)
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Life changed then. I started dating. Dating is what led to the weight creeping on. I regained 30 over the next 12 months. I met a man fell in love GOT COMFORTABLE. never shared my weight loss journey with him and accompanied him on fast food and restaurant trips almost nightly. little by little the weight came back. we got married I stopped caring about weight and before I knew it had gained 60 that year.
Frequent restaurant meals make it nearly impossible to maintain weight. Even when cutting it down to tiny portions, it'll still be a huge amount compared to eating at home -- since everything is made to taste as good as possible without regard to calories (so lots of added calories in the form of oils, butter, cream sauces, etc in unchecked quantities). Plus-Add in some table bread, wine, a restaurant-style dessert - and dear god the calories!7 -
I met the last few boyfriends at social dancing venues, so not an issue for me.. (a night out for us would typically be dancing somewhere and hopefully fewer drinks than we burn off. More often than not at either a social hall with no food on offer or a bar where the food is decidedly not worth the calories and would take time away from the dancing).0
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Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Not to be overly negative but the problems with weight loss surgeries such as gastric bypass is they use a method to lose weight that is not a method you can employ to maintain weight.
If you lose weight by teaching yourself how to eat a certain number of calories daily then over the years you are doing that you teach yourself routines and systems and management strategies for being able to eat an appropriate amount. It is those things that allow you to then transition smoothly into maintenance and keep at your goal weight. If instead you lose weight by stapling your stomach so you literally cannot eat more than a few bites then you aren't teaching yourself any habits or skills that you can carry over into maintenance. You will lose the weight but as your stomach stretches back and regrows you won't have put into place any strategies or routines whereby you will maintain your weight.
I guess my point is you need to count calories and learn how many calories you personally need to maintain your weight and then continue to count calories daily and stick around that number for as many months or years as it takes to build up the collection of habits necessary for you to no longer require counting. You will need to find what foods work for you that allow you to hit that calorie goal while remaining satisfied. That is as true of maintenance as it is of loss, its just people who lost weight by calorie counting have already taught themselves how to do that while those who lost by surgery haven't yet.
I think this comment basically assumes that all WLS patients refuse to learn through the classes and teaching that is a part of the process of having surgery. The fact that you state "stapling the stomach" to not be able to eat more than a few bites tells me that you know rather little about what the process entails.
If you are trying to go through insurance (in the US at least) it typically takes 6-12 months of pre-op training with a dietitian, a physiologist and a psychologist, along with routine bloodwork, weight loss goals and more, all structured around teaching new habits, a better relationship with food and how to determine whether a food will be good for you or not. Effectively, if you go about it the way you should, you are actually taught a very sustainable, routine/system/management style that can be maintained for LIFE. Typically, these programs also follow you for a year+ after surgery in order to make sure you maintain what you've learned and learn coping skills to address the issues that come up after the fact.
The problem is that there are many patients that don't take it seriously... Doing the bare minimum to get to surgery, or even worse, bypassing the pre-qualifying steps to go the elective route, getting a WLS procedure done through a service that doesn't provide any pre or post op services.
Surgical weight loss is supposed to provide restriction for the initial period to cause immediate weight loss but the stomach is supposed to expand over time. Eventually, it'll be able to tolerate a modest meal, and that's 100% what is supposed to happen. Will it ever expand to 40oz (the average stomach size) again? Probably not. However, no one ever said that you'd be restricted for life... and absolutely every step of the way for me, they stressed the importance of learning nutrition skills, setting exercise routines and figuring out the best way to do you.
Essentially, I equate it to taking an anti-depressant when you are having an acute depressive episode. They aren't intended to be taken for life for most people. What they are intended to do is treat symptoms immediately so that you can focus on learning coping skills and working with a therapist so that when you eventually take away the medications, you can rely on your skills to maintain. Some people take this very seriously and maintain without meds with success (for example, I am going almost 5 years strong now myself) but others assume that meds will just fix the problem, and are completely unprepared when normalcy comes back.
I have a book-thick binder of tips, guidelines, skill sheets, resources, I have a hotline I can call if I have concerns, I have a therapist I see weekly, I monitor my intake... I invested in this and taught myself a lot. I won't claim that I will never regain but I'm pretty confident in my choices and my skills. I eat mostly regular foods, I have desserts sometimes, I enjoy my LIFE.
I found the surgery process and my pure non-surgical weight loss to be pretty similar. Both required regular logging and attention to detail. Both require exercise, adequate sleep, good water intake and vitamins. Both require therapy and social support. The only real difference for me is that surgery broke a year long weight loss stall that I couldn't break on my own or with purely non-surgical methods assisted from medical personnel.
The way I see it is, surgery ultimately does exactly what we're all trying to do here, but just adds an undeniable physical limitation for most WLS patients (not all have stomach "stapling" done ya know). Just like a non-surgery patient, if you buy into a program to dictate all your steps for you without learning more about the details, you'll inevitably fail when you remove the program guidelines from the equation. However, if you take the time to learn the how, why and what of it all, you can successfully transition without much issue.
The average WLS patient might experience 25% regain, but that's the average. Some patients regain it all, some never regain a pound. We all typically gain weight as we age and our bodies and needs change anyway, so the vast majority of people on MFP will gain some of the weight they've lost here, regardless of how they did it. Talking about it like they are somehow completely different is not particularly accurate.
I'll admit I have no experience and little knowledge about weight loss surgery. That said if one is capable of learning sustainable eating habits through coursework and practice then why is the surgery even neccessary?
I guess I am assuming that if someone resorts to surgery it is because they have not been able to control their weight just through willpower and self-imposed caloric restriction through self taught dietary habits. If a person was capable of that why elect to have surgery?
After the surgery occurs ones biology and ability to eat is altered in a way that one can no longer experientially learn proper eating habits simply because restrictions are in place due to the surgery that will not be there a year or so later when maintenance is required. So again if you are to learn the habits necessary for maintenance you'd have to do so before the surgery took place in which case why is the surgery necessary?
I have the same confusion about how appetite suppressants are supposed to help. If one learns to eat a reasonable amount while on appetite suppressants they haven't really learned how to eat a reasonable amount while not on appetite suppressants. Eventually they will have to stop taking the appetite suppressants in which case they haven't really been prepared for what will be required for maintenance and will either regain a lot of their weight while attempting to learn or they won't learn and will regain all of the weight.
Surgery and appetite suppressants just seem to be placeholders. Eventually, at some point, one has to learn proper eating without relying on them anyways...so why not start there and skip the dangers of surgery or appetite suppressants.
I do understand if it is a matter of life or death for someone morbidly obese surgery might be the best course of action but the rebound is still an issue.
While I have no experience with WLS, I did take phen/fen in the 90's, and it worked like magic for me. Until I stopped taking it. Since I learned nothing while my appetite was artificially suppressed, I gradually gained almost all of the weight back.
I'm glad you've been asking your questions - they are common on WLS threads and we are getting great answers.6 -
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Life changed then. I started dating. Dating is what led to the weight creeping on. I regained 30 over the next 12 months. I met a man fell in love GOT COMFORTABLE. never shared my weight loss journey with him and accompanied him on fast food and restaurant trips almost nightly. little by little the weight came back. we got married I stopped caring about weight and before I knew it had gained 60 that year.
Frequent restaurant meals make it nearly impossible to maintain weight. Even when cutting it down to tiny portions, it'll still be a huge amount compared to eating at home -- since everything is made to taste as good as possible without regard to calories (so lots of added calories in the form of oils, butter, cream sauces, etc in unchecked quantities). Plus-Add in some table bread, wine, a restaurant-style dessert - and dear god the calories!
This hasn't been the case for me. One of the reasons I had surgery was to improve my quality of life. Eating and socializing are part of that and I choose to fit that in. I have never been to any restaurant where I couldn't find something to eat that fit in with my calories, macros etc. I can't eat a large quantity of food, but I sure like to have a few good bites, and that's totally doable with a little planning.4 -
restaurant meals were awful for me. When I say dating I was dating I would go on 2-3 different dates a week. so there was a ton of eating out. small portions or not it definitely halted and reversed my weight loss.
I also have no dumping so I never was really restricted on what I ate just how much I ate and boy do those wine calories slide down easy. I regret it now. I didn't in the process. I hope I can get at least 60 of this regain off...0 -
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Life changed then. I started dating. Dating is what led to the weight creeping on. I regained 30 over the next 12 months. I met a man fell in love GOT COMFORTABLE. never shared my weight loss journey with him and accompanied him on fast food and restaurant trips almost nightly. little by little the weight came back. we got married I stopped caring about weight and before I knew it had gained 60 that year.
Frequent restaurant meals make it nearly impossible to maintain weight. Even when cutting it down to tiny portions, it'll still be a huge amount compared to eating at home -- since everything is made to taste as good as possible without regard to calories (so lots of added calories in the form of oils, butter, cream sauces, etc in unchecked quantities). Plus-Add in some table bread, wine, a restaurant-style dessert - and dear god the calories!
I'm at the point now that I can generally go to a restaurant and order something that will keep well, eat an appropriate portion and save the rest for future lunch(es).
HOWEVER, when we are on vacation (we went to Disneyland and San Diego a few weeks ago) and we eat at a restaurant with a gf menu that includes safe versions of food I usually can't have I have no brakes. Appetizers, entrée, desert, wine, all the good stuff. Then I'm up with heartburn all night, but it never stops me.
If I had access to those kinds of restaurants on a regular basis I think I might find it extremely difficult to maintain my weight loss because I haven't developed any strategies for dealing with it.2 -
at the time I was eating about 1000 calories a day. when I asked my nutritionist she said to cut it back down to 800 and that got disheartening. I know your metabolism slows way down right after surgery but can you bump it back up I don't even have a clue what calories range I should be in. Right now I am trying to hit the 1000 calorie mark again.
This thread has gotten far from the original post - no one seems to have addressed this. Why is the OP not losing at 1000 calories a day? That seems very unlikely, but it seems the nutritionist believes her.4 -
rheddmobile wrote: »at the time I was eating about 1000 calories a day. when I asked my nutritionist she said to cut it back down to 800 and that got disheartening. I know your metabolism slows way down right after surgery but can you bump it back up I don't even have a clue what calories range I should be in. Right now I am trying to hit the 1000 calorie mark again.
This thread has gotten far from the original post - no one seems to have addressed this. Why is the OP not losing at 1000 calories a day? That seems very unlikely, but it seems the nutritionist believes her.
Good point. The OP's diary is open.
@jnmalsch for yesterday's frittata, soup, and cabbage rolls - did you put them in the recipe builder yourself?1 -
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Life changed then. I started dating. Dating is what led to the weight creeping on. I regained 30 over the next 12 months. I met a man fell in love GOT COMFORTABLE. never shared my weight loss journey with him and accompanied him on fast food and restaurant trips almost nightly. little by little the weight came back. we got married I stopped caring about weight and before I knew it had gained 60 that year.
Frequent restaurant meals make it nearly impossible to maintain weight. Even when cutting it down to tiny portions, it'll still be a huge amount compared to eating at home -- since everything is made to taste as good as possible without regard to calories (so lots of added calories in the form of oils, butter, cream sauces, etc in unchecked quantities). Plus-Add in some table bread, wine, a restaurant-style dessert - and dear god the calories!
I'm at the point now that I can generally go to a restaurant and order something that will keep well, eat an appropriate portion and save the rest for future lunch(es).
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Same here.. but most restaurant food is calorie dense enough that 1/3 of the meal (not counting extras) is still significantly more calories than what I have otherwise.. which adds up if you don't skip another meal now and then.
(ETA: and 1/4 of the meal in a custard cup isn't generally very satisfying for me at least).
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rheddmobile wrote: »at the time I was eating about 1000 calories a day. when I asked my nutritionist she said to cut it back down to 800 and that got disheartening. I know your metabolism slows way down right after surgery but can you bump it back up I don't even have a clue what calories range I should be in. Right now I am trying to hit the 1000 calorie mark again.
This thread has gotten far from the original post - no one seems to have addressed this. Why is the OP not losing at 1000 calories a day? That seems very unlikely, but it seems the nutritionist believes her.
I just assumed she was under-counting.. the nutritionist might even have figured as much and decided telling her to eat 800 was more likely to be successful than telling her to get a food scale.6 -
rheddmobile wrote: »at the time I was eating about 1000 calories a day. when I asked my nutritionist she said to cut it back down to 800 and that got disheartening. I know your metabolism slows way down right after surgery but can you bump it back up I don't even have a clue what calories range I should be in. Right now I am trying to hit the 1000 calorie mark again.
This thread has gotten far from the original post - no one seems to have addressed this. Why is the OP not losing at 1000 calories a day? That seems very unlikely, but it seems the nutritionist believes her.
I just assumed she was under-counting.. the nutritionist might even have figured as much and decided telling her to eat 800 was more likely to be successful than telling her to get a food scale.
She didn't regain the weight eating 800-1000 calories a day. She gained because she was preoccupied with dating and later with her marriage and stopped managing her weight/diet. She's trying to lose on the restricted calories and finds the restriction a bit disheartening and possibly hard to sustain.4 -
kshama2001 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »at the time I was eating about 1000 calories a day. when I asked my nutritionist she said to cut it back down to 800 and that got disheartening. I know your metabolism slows way down right after surgery but can you bump it back up I don't even have a clue what calories range I should be in. Right now I am trying to hit the 1000 calorie mark again.
This thread has gotten far from the original post - no one seems to have addressed this. Why is the OP not losing at 1000 calories a day? That seems very unlikely, but it seems the nutritionist believes her.
Good point. The OP's diary is open.
@jnmalsch for yesterday's frittata, soup, and cabbage rolls - did you put them in the recipe builder yourself?
..and everything else is listed in even quantities of cups/ounces/scoops - so at best: volume measured, and at worst: eyeballed.0 -
jseams1234 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »at the time I was eating about 1000 calories a day. when I asked my nutritionist she said to cut it back down to 800 and that got disheartening. I know your metabolism slows way down right after surgery but can you bump it back up I don't even have a clue what calories range I should be in. Right now I am trying to hit the 1000 calorie mark again.
This thread has gotten far from the original post - no one seems to have addressed this. Why is the OP not losing at 1000 calories a day? That seems very unlikely, but it seems the nutritionist believes her.
I just assumed she was under-counting.. the nutritionist might even have figured as much and decided telling her to eat 800 was more likely to be successful than telling her to get a food scale.
She didn't regain the weight eating 800-1000 calories a day. She gained because she was preoccupied with dating and later with her marriage and stopped managing her weight/diet. She's trying to lose on the restricted calories and finds the restriction a bit disheartening and possibly hard to sustain.
It wasn't completely clear to me when she was eating the 1000, to which the nutritionist told here to drop to 800.0 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Not to be overly negative but the problems with weight loss surgeries such as gastric bypass is they use a method to lose weight that is not a method you can employ to maintain weight.
If you lose weight by teaching yourself how to eat a certain number of calories daily then over the years you are doing that you teach yourself routines and systems and management strategies for being able to eat an appropriate amount. It is those things that allow you to then transition smoothly into maintenance and keep at your goal weight. If instead you lose weight by stapling your stomach so you literally cannot eat more than a few bites then you aren't teaching yourself any habits or skills that you can carry over into maintenance. You will lose the weight but as your stomach stretches back and regrows you won't have put into place any strategies or routines whereby you will maintain your weight.
I guess my point is you need to count calories and learn how many calories you personally need to maintain your weight and then continue to count calories daily and stick around that number for as many months or years as it takes to build up the collection of habits necessary for you to no longer require counting. You will need to find what foods work for you that allow you to hit that calorie goal while remaining satisfied. That is as true of maintenance as it is of loss, its just people who lost weight by calorie counting have already taught themselves how to do that while those who lost by surgery haven't yet.
I think this comment basically assumes that all WLS patients refuse to learn through the classes and teaching that is a part of the process of having surgery. The fact that you state "stapling the stomach" to not be able to eat more than a few bites tells me that you know rather little about what the process entails.
If you are trying to go through insurance (in the US at least) it typically takes 6-12 months of pre-op training with a dietitian, a physiologist and a psychologist, along with routine bloodwork, weight loss goals and more, all structured around teaching new habits, a better relationship with food and how to determine whether a food will be good for you or not. Effectively, if you go about it the way you should, you are actually taught a very sustainable, routine/system/management style that can be maintained for LIFE. Typically, these programs also follow you for a year+ after surgery in order to make sure you maintain what you've learned and learn coping skills to address the issues that come up after the fact.
The problem is that there are many patients that don't take it seriously... Doing the bare minimum to get to surgery, or even worse, bypassing the pre-qualifying steps to go the elective route, getting a WLS procedure done through a service that doesn't provide any pre or post op services.
Surgical weight loss is supposed to provide restriction for the initial period to cause immediate weight loss but the stomach is supposed to expand over time. Eventually, it'll be able to tolerate a modest meal, and that's 100% what is supposed to happen. Will it ever expand to 40oz (the average stomach size) again? Probably not. However, no one ever said that you'd be restricted for life... and absolutely every step of the way for me, they stressed the importance of learning nutrition skills, setting exercise routines and figuring out the best way to do you.
Essentially, I equate it to taking an anti-depressant when you are having an acute depressive episode. They aren't intended to be taken for life for most people. What they are intended to do is treat symptoms immediately so that you can focus on learning coping skills and working with a therapist so that when you eventually take away the medications, you can rely on your skills to maintain. Some people take this very seriously and maintain without meds with success (for example, I am going almost 5 years strong now myself) but others assume that meds will just fix the problem, and are completely unprepared when normalcy comes back.
I have a book-thick binder of tips, guidelines, skill sheets, resources, I have a hotline I can call if I have concerns, I have a therapist I see weekly, I monitor my intake... I invested in this and taught myself a lot. I won't claim that I will never regain but I'm pretty confident in my choices and my skills. I eat mostly regular foods, I have desserts sometimes, I enjoy my LIFE.
I found the surgery process and my pure non-surgical weight loss to be pretty similar. Both required regular logging and attention to detail. Both require exercise, adequate sleep, good water intake and vitamins. Both require therapy and social support. The only real difference for me is that surgery broke a year long weight loss stall that I couldn't break on my own or with purely non-surgical methods assisted from medical personnel.
The way I see it is, surgery ultimately does exactly what we're all trying to do here, but just adds an undeniable physical limitation for most WLS patients (not all have stomach "stapling" done ya know). Just like a non-surgery patient, if you buy into a program to dictate all your steps for you without learning more about the details, you'll inevitably fail when you remove the program guidelines from the equation. However, if you take the time to learn the how, why and what of it all, you can successfully transition without much issue.
The average WLS patient might experience 25% regain, but that's the average. Some patients regain it all, some never regain a pound. We all typically gain weight as we age and our bodies and needs change anyway, so the vast majority of people on MFP will gain some of the weight they've lost here, regardless of how they did it. Talking about it like they are somehow completely different is not particularly accurate.
I'll admit I have no experience and little knowledge about weight loss surgery. That said if one is capable of learning sustainable eating habits through coursework and practice then why is the surgery even neccessary?
I guess I am assuming that if someone resorts to surgery it is because they have not been able to control their weight just through willpower and self-imposed caloric restriction through self taught dietary habits. If a person was capable of that why elect to have surgery?
After the surgery occurs ones biology and ability to eat is altered in a way that one can no longer experientially learn proper eating habits simply because restrictions are in place due to the surgery that will not be there a year or so later when maintenance is required. So again if you are to learn the habits necessary for maintenance you'd have to do so before the surgery took place in which case why is the surgery necessary?
I have the same confusion about how appetite suppressants are supposed to help. If one learns to eat a reasonable amount while on appetite suppressants they haven't really learned how to eat a reasonable amount while not on appetite suppressants. Eventually they will have to stop taking the appetite suppressants in which case they haven't really been prepared for what will be required for maintenance and will either regain a lot of their weight while attempting to learn or they won't learn and will regain all of the weight.
Surgery and appetite suppressants just seem to be placeholders. Eventually, at some point, one has to learn proper eating without relying on them anyways...so why not start there and skip the dangers of surgery or appetite suppressants.
I do understand if it is a matter of life or death for someone morbidly obese surgery might be the best course of action but the rebound is still an issue.
I can't speak with experience on the weight loss surgery end of things but I imagine it's the same as with appetite suppressants. One of the reasons it is drawn out how it is to establish new habits. If you stay on Adipex for 3 months and eat properly the whole time, you will both lose weight and you will have enough time in to establish the proper habits. Just like surgery, it's up to you to do the right thing but the surgery or the pills are merely a tool to help you get to the right place. In my case, I started Adipex because I could not get into the groove of calorie counting, no matter how hard I tried. Once I was on it a month and had some good habits going and some weight loss to boost my motivation, I went off and it's been easy ever since. They are tools, not solutions. Buy a hammer and it's not going to fasten two pieces of wood together for you but it damn sure makes it easier.0 -
jseams1234 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »at the time I was eating about 1000 calories a day. when I asked my nutritionist she said to cut it back down to 800 and that got disheartening. I know your metabolism slows way down right after surgery but can you bump it back up I don't even have a clue what calories range I should be in. Right now I am trying to hit the 1000 calorie mark again.
This thread has gotten far from the original post - no one seems to have addressed this. Why is the OP not losing at 1000 calories a day? That seems very unlikely, but it seems the nutritionist believes her.
I just assumed she was under-counting.. the nutritionist might even have figured as much and decided telling her to eat 800 was more likely to be successful than telling her to get a food scale.
She didn't regain the weight eating 800-1000 calories a day. She gained because she was preoccupied with dating and later with her marriage and stopped managing her weight/diet. She's trying to lose on the restricted calories and finds the restriction a bit disheartening and possibly hard to sustain.
It wasn't completely clear to me when she was eating the 1000, to which the nutritionist told here to drop to 800.
Yeah, it's not very clear. I had to go back and reread the thread to figure it out... I think. lol0 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »
Okay so now I am confused again. Based on what you said here in what way do you actually disagree with what I said? I was saying that the weight loss surgery itself doesn't prepare you for maintenance and if you opted to have surgery you clearly struggled with eating in a way that allowed you to lose weight consistently. That eventually you would have to come to terms with the underlying issues surrounding your weight gain or you won't be able to maintain after surgery. Based on what you said here it seems to me like you agree with all of that.
I was just telling the OP that her focus should be on learning the tools necessary that are used for weight loss (calorie counting, meal prep, figuring out ones TDEE) since they are also used for controlled maintenance. I was adding that I assumed if she opted for surgery she hadn't quite gotten a handle on those yet because if she had the surgery would not have been necessary. So what about that do you disagree with?
As for the OP not weighing in I understand that I just chose to apologize to the OP if I at all offended them because your posts did rightfully point out I don't have experience or full understanding of all that goes along with weightloss surgery. The OP was the one asking for advice not you so I apologized to her.
I disagree with the continued, underlying assumption that a person would opt for surgery because they have not gotten a handle on the tools necessary for weight loss and controlled maintenance. It's really incredibly assumptive and closed-minded, and for someone that has repeatedly stated he knows nothing about the process, it also comes off as insulting. A decent % of surgery recipients have proven successful adherence and small success in traditional CICO and that's precisely why they are considered optimal candidates for surgical intervention. You talk about it like a person just walks in and says "I'm fat, please fix me cuz I can't do it myself." when the reality of the situation is, patients walk in saying "I know I need professional help that is beyond my capacity to manage on my own, please help me be a healthier person." That management is NOT about eating habits exclusively, though for some it might be. In fact, if you struggle with compulsive eating disorder, have had uncontrollable binges, stuff like that? You don't get to do surgery.
A person cannot be successful with surgery without willpower, perseverance and dedication. PERIOD.
No, a patient didn't "clearly struggle with eating in a way that allowed you to lose weight consistently." There are many established medical reasons why surgery becomes a part of the equation, and not all surgical candidates are incapable of monitoring their food intake. Many candidates are doing it because all traditional methods are failing and thus, employing the changes to digestion (which again, nothing to do with eating style and you cannot do this without surgery) is what propels the weight loss more than anything. It's not a "clear" indication of struggling to adhere to a plan. It's a clear indication that more aggressive tactics are needed than plugging into a calculator and counting estimated calories.
I've repeatedly stated that there is more to it than restriction from a physical standpoint, and frankly, I'm not going to continue repeating myself.
Your initial message to OP was that your problem with it is that WLS does not provide a method that is sustainable for a lifetime of success. That's the very first thing you said in this thread. THAT, I have a problem with. I've yet to meet a recipient, other than those that travel to Mexico for elective procedures, that did not go through a rigorous and thorough education program and at least 2 years of medical monitoring. It's a serious, lifelong, life-altering procedure and I'm tired of people acting like it's for the lazy and those that can't control themselves... because the reality is? If you are considered lazy and unable to control yourself, you'll be disqualified as a candidate for surgery.
Now, please, go educate yourself on the subject. Thanks
Here's my confusion. Every one of us loses weight by consuming fewer calories than we require to maintain our current weight. What about "traditional CICO" has failed them? There are a few medical conditions that can make it a bit harder but not so significantly so that it stops someone big enough for WLS losing or even someone pretty close to a healthy weight.2 -
I personally have not had weight loss surgery but I know a lot of people personally who have and some are very close to me. Here are the issues I have seen in Canada.
1. The education surrounding it is lack luster at best
2. the professionals they see are lack luster at best for example a dietican (I actually think it's a nutritionist) telling one person they are in starvation mode and not eating enough...*sighs*
3. Any form of help outside surgery is not that easy to get
4. no after/before support for the depression some feel
and why do people have a bad attitude? because up here we pay for it...and then people kitten off and not do what they know they need to do (eat less) and gain all the weight back...my tax dollars at work.
Sounds harsh but I can say this...I wouldn't wish WLS on anyone...I have seen what it does to htem physically, mentally and emotionally and then when they gain the weight back...wow.
As for the eating out meals that's a cop out...I lost weight while travelling and having to eat out all the time (all 3 meals).
*waits for the rush of anger at me.*7 -
jseams1234 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »at the time I was eating about 1000 calories a day. when I asked my nutritionist she said to cut it back down to 800 and that got disheartening. I know your metabolism slows way down right after surgery but can you bump it back up I don't even have a clue what calories range I should be in. Right now I am trying to hit the 1000 calorie mark again.
This thread has gotten far from the original post - no one seems to have addressed this. Why is the OP not losing at 1000 calories a day? That seems very unlikely, but it seems the nutritionist believes her.
I just assumed she was under-counting.. the nutritionist might even have figured as much and decided telling her to eat 800 was more likely to be successful than telling her to get a food scale.
She didn't regain the weight eating 800-1000 calories a day. She gained because she was preoccupied with dating and later with her marriage and stopped managing her weight/diet. She's trying to lose on the restricted calories and finds the restriction a bit disheartening and possibly hard to sustain.
It wasn't completely clear to me when she was eating the 1000, to which the nutritionist told here to drop to 800.
OP said "at the time I was eating 1,000 calories a day". I assume that this was during the 7 months OP lost 160 pounds. I also assume that OP has increased calorie intake since, up over maintenance.0 -
I personally have not had weight loss surgery but I know a lot of people personally who have and some are very close to me. Here are the issues I have seen in Canada.
1. The education surrounding it is lack luster at best
2. the professionals they see are lack luster at best for example a dietican (I actually think it's a nutritionist) telling one person they are in starvation mode and not eating enough...*sighs*
3. Any form of help outside surgery is not that easy to get
4. no after/before support for the depression some feel
and why do people have a bad attitude? because up here we pay for it...and then people kitten off and not do what they know they need to do (eat less) and gain all the weight back...my tax dollars at work.
Sounds harsh but I can say this...I wouldn't wish WLS on anyone...I have seen what it does to htem physically, mentally and emotionally and then when they gain the weight back...wow.
As for the eating out meals that's a cop out...I lost weight while travelling and having to eat out all the time (all 3 meals).
*waits for the rush of anger at me.*
I had WLS and I agree with much of this, but I also do think people have a bad attitude because as I said before, they hear the negative stories, and, they really don't have an understanding of the process. Many people also think WLS is the easy way out, and I know it hasn't been easy for me. I just understood from the beginning that no matter what method of weight loss I chose to use, I would have to work at it the rest of my life. It's worth it to me though, I would rather work to stay healthy than work to stay 400 lbs.2 -
at the time I was eating about 1000 calories a day. when I asked my nutritionist she said to cut it back down to 800 and that got disheartening. I know your metabolism slows way down right after surgery but can you bump it back up I don't even have a clue what calories range I should be in. Right now I am trying to hit the 1000 calorie mark again.
I hate to be a bother, but I have another question. I am another person with no experience with WLS, but I saw this original comment and a subsequent one that recommended getting back to a VLCD. Is there a medical reason for this... something specifically about having been a surgery patient that now requires a VLCD for weight loss, regardless of the time since surgery and a person's current weight/eating habits/calorie intake? It sounds like the OP has regained the way we all gain weight- eating too many calories- and it doesn't sound like she is observing any huge restrictions. That being the case, wouldn't a modest calorie deficit work the same for her as it would for anyone?2 -
at the time I was eating about 1000 calories a day. when I asked my nutritionist she said to cut it back down to 800 and that got disheartening. I know your metabolism slows way down right after surgery but can you bump it back up I don't even have a clue what calories range I should be in. Right now I am trying to hit the 1000 calorie mark again.
I hate to be a bother, but I have another question. I am another person with no experience with WLS, but I saw this original comment and a subsequent one that recommended getting back to a VLCD. Is there a medical reason for this... something specifically about having been a surgery patient that now requires a VLCD for weight loss, regardless of the time since surgery and a person's current weight/eating habits/calorie intake? It sounds like the OP has regained the way we all gain weight- eating too many calories- and it doesn't sound like she is observing any huge restrictions. That being the case, wouldn't a modest calorie deficit work the same for her as it would for anyone?
Not if she's still within a certain timeframe of her WLS, is my understanding.0
This discussion has been closed.
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