After losing weight, I find myself hungrier than before
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »
Actually, multiple studies have demonstrated that a partial recovery in hormone changes have occurred in various study populations within time periods less than 12 months after the initial weight loss. One can indeed 'white knuckle' through the changes over time.Nony_Mouse wrote: »Feeling hungrier than before after losing weight is a fairly well studied effect. The answer is hormones. For a period of time after you lose significant fat reserves, your hormone production will alter itself to make you try to replenish that fat.
If you hold it down, stay accountable to your intake, and be responsible with what you eat, this too, should pass.
No, actually, white knuckling through it is not the answer.
I think what you meant to say is that 'white knuckling is not the only answer,' to which I would agree, but I have not encountered any studies that would indicate what those other solutions might be.
Yes, but that's after. I'm talking about during weight loss.
Regular diet breaks. There's an entire 500 post and counting thread about them in this forum, with a heap of links.
@Nony_Mouse I am a more with @davidylin on this.
Post diet adaptation does tend to resolve quite well if you regain all the weight + 10%.
That would probably be counter-productive to your goals; certainly it would be to mine!
Short of that the options I've found in my reading are:
--allow for a very very slow rate of weight increase at 'maintenance' for a period of 6 months to a year. A bit of a dangerous game, at least for me.
--keep at it at a maintenance level and hope for the best (aka "white-knuckle it long enough and it shall pass")
Hence my obsession from the beginning with minimising any adaptations during the weight loss phase!
And yes, re-feeds and diet breaks do enter into that discussion!
Oh yeah, I'm not denying that adaptations resolve post-diet at all @PAV8888, just saying it doesn't have to be this way if you minimise the adaptations during weight loss (girl with shiny new toy, yelling it from the rooftops until everyone listens
).
And yeah, don't really want to regain all that weight (and mine was a small amount compared to many)!0 -
I think @Nony_Mouse has brought up a viable issue.
But, while there is some limited evidence that suggests that "refeeds" may have some beneficial effects on an overall weight loss plan, however, I have not come across a study that is well controlled and/or tracks overall outcomes.
I will say that if a "refeed" will help you individually stay on track and control your overall weight trend, then it would indeed be beneficial to you personally. But I think everyone can be successful without it as well.0 -
I think @Nony_Mouse has brought up a viable issue.
But, while there is some limited evidence that suggests that "refeeds" may have some beneficial effects on an overall weight loss plan, however, I have not come across a study that is well controlled and/or tracks overall outcomes.
I will say that if a "refeed" will help you individually stay on track and control your overall weight trend, then it would indeed be beneficial to you personally. But I think everyone can be successful without it as well.
@davidylin have a look at the paper Pav just posted in the refeeds thread. Well controlled study
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I did. Three issues with this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4018593/Nony_Mouse wrote: »@davidylin have a look at the paper Pav just posted in the refeeds thread. Well controlled study- Tiny sample group of 72 people that are highly obese.
- "Adherence" (complying with the study protocol) was self-reported.
- Followup was only a month after a 6 week long trial period.
I would not draw any far reaching conclusions from this study.7 -
I did. Three issues with this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4018593/Nony_Mouse wrote: »@davidylin have a look at the paper Pav just posted in the refeeds thread. Well controlled study- Tiny sample group of 72 people that are highly obese.
- "Adherence" (complying with the study protocol) was self-reported.
- Followup was only a month after a 6 week long trial period.
I would not draw any far reaching conclusions from this study.
Well, just to play devil's advocate, do you have studies that show the contrary?2 -
I did. Three issues with this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4018593/Nony_Mouse wrote: »@davidylin have a look at the paper Pav just posted in the refeeds thread. Well controlled study- Tiny sample group of 72 people that are highly obese.
- "Adherence" (complying with the study protocol) was self-reported.
- Followup was only a month after a 6 week long trial period.
I would not draw any far reaching conclusions from this study.
Also body composition by two electrode bio-impedance. which, err, sucks.
Having said that. And even though I don't think that this is a seminal study. The general level of information from usually reliable sources, to me, seems to indicate that re-feeds and diet breaks are good and help mitigate some adaptations.
But it is still an open question as to how good and how effective. How much do they mitigate? Is that mitigation preferable to powering through till weight loss stops and only then adjusting? Does people's RMR recover faster/better/to a higher level than when powering through on pure CR? Is that recovery difference significant at the one month, six month, one year, 5 year level? How much easier or harder does it make weight loss for people? Is there a different amount of fat loss taking place? Are people more likely to adhere to re-feeds and do they return to a CR on schedule? Short term? Long term? While obese? When overweight? When normal weight? When athlete level of fat? How does exercise and training get affected by either option? See.... lot's of open questions ;-)
As a normal weight individual my feeling is that re-feeds and breaks are probably a necessary strategy, if for nothing else, in order to promote adherence.
When I was an obese individual I thought (and acted on that thought) that other than unplanned re-feeds due to life/events/friends/holidays/etc, it was more important to just concentrate on keeping my caloric deficit going and to develop strategies to deal with my perennial over-eating. At least until my body composition changes started showing an increase in lean mass lost as I moved into the overweight range, which led me to bring my calories further up.
Admittedly (post joining MFP) I never engaged in large % deficits. Even the above study talks 40% deficits. I kept to sub 20%
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I did. Three issues with this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4018593/Nony_Mouse wrote: »@davidylin have a look at the paper Pav just posted in the refeeds thread. Well controlled study- Tiny sample group of 72 people that are highly obese.
- "Adherence" (complying with the study protocol) was self-reported.
- Followup was only a month after a 6 week long trial period.
I would not draw any far reaching conclusions from this study.
Also body composition by two electrode bio-impedance. which, err, sucks.
Having said that. And even though I don't think that this is a seminal study. The general level of information from usually reliable sources, to me, seems to indicate that re-feeds and diet breaks are good and help mitigate some adaptations.
But it is still an open question as to how good and how effective. How much do they mitigate? Is that mitigation preferable to powering through till weight loss stops and only then adjusting? Does people's RMR recover faster/better/to a higher level than when powering through on pure CR? Is that recovery difference significant at the one month, six month, one year, 5 year level? How much easier or harder does it make weight loss for people? Is there a different amount of fat loss taking place? Are people more likely to adhere to re-feeds and do they return to a CR on schedule? Short term? Long term? While obese? When overweight? When normal weight? When athlete level of fat? How does exercise and training get affected by either option? See.... lot's of open questions ;-)
As a normal weight individual my feeling is that re-feeds and breaks are probably a necessary strategy, if for nothing else, in order to promote adherence.
When I was an obese individual I thought (and acted on that thought) that other than unplanned re-feeds due to life/events/friends/holidays/etc, it was more important to just concentrate on keeping my caloric deficit going and to develop strategies to deal with my perennial over-eating. At least until my body composition changes started showing an increase in lean mass lost as I moved into the overweight range, which led me to bring my calories further up.
Admittedly (post joining MFP) I never engaged in large % deficits. Even the above study talks 40% deficits. I kept to sub 20%
I, too, think that the information available indicates that refeeds and diet breaks are good and help to mitigate at least some of the adaptations. Do they completely mitigate them? No idea, and possibly not, but that's no reason to throw the baby out with the bath water.
My personal opinion (based on listening to a billion Lyle McDonald podcasts and reading a lot of his articles, plus other stuff) is that diet breaks are for everyone, and should become more frequent as one gets closer to their desired weight. Refeeds, if you're doing regular diet breaks, can probably be left until you are in the healthy weight/lean getting leaner category.
The massive deficits generally used in these studies are definitely a drawback. It would be great to see more research on normal or mildly overweight individuals, at more realistic deficits. From memeory, the recent MATADOR study used overweight, as opposed to obese, individuals, but still at a 33% deficit.
I can only give my N=1, but I am finding this a whole lot easier as a normal weight individual with diet breaks and refeeds.3 -
Same concern here. I've lost around 25 lbs for the last 9 months, and my appetite has been fluctuating. I went on a vacation a week ago, and I wasn't strict with my diet. Before this vacation, I was semi-strict with my diet. When I got back, I felt hungrier than usual all the time, and I am not easily satiated anymore. I also crave for a lot of junk food lately, and I give in a lot which is not good. This is kinda messing me up mentally since I still want to shed some fat especially from my abdominal area.0
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captivatedheroine wrote: »Same concern here. I've lost around 25 lbs for the last 9 months, and my appetite has been fluctuating. I went on a vacation a week ago, and I wasn't strict with my diet. Before this vacation, I was semi-strict with my diet. When I got back, I felt hungrier than usual all the time, and I am not easily satiated anymore. I also crave for a lot of junk food lately, and I give in a lot which is not good. This is kinda messing me up mentally since I still want to shed some fat especially from my abdominal area.
Haha yeah. I was 2 lbs from my goal 3 years ago, and we went on vacation, ate out all the time, after that I was never able to get back to my deficit. Yes, part of it is more cravings/less willpower, but when I compare what I eat now with what I ate when I was losing, for the same deficit, I'd just be hungry all the time if I ate what I used to eat.
That's why I don't really understand why people recommend diet breaks all the time. It messed it all up for me.2 -
I did. Three issues with this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4018593/Nony_Mouse wrote: »@davidylin have a look at the paper Pav just posted in the refeeds thread. Well controlled study- Tiny sample group of 72 people that are highly obese.
- "Adherence" (complying with the study protocol) was self-reported.
- Followup was only a month after a 6 week long trial period.
I would not draw any far reaching conclusions from this study.
On the first bullet, having great fat stores correlates to higher leptin (more satiety). As BF% drops, leptin (satiety) drops. I think I'm saying the same thing as PAV8888 but in a different way.
ETA: Studies of highly obese people don't shed much light on normal weight people with completely different hormone situations.1 -
OP here. I ended up taking the advice on this thread and taking a break from my diet (more or less- I had around 1700 calories/day) for a week. It was a mixed experience for me. On the plus side, it was fun to eat more food than usual. On the negative side, it really killed my motivation for a bit. It was really hard to remember to log my calories, and I felt bad about my progress, especially when going back to lower calories. But I was able to lose weight really easily again afterward (I lost like 2 pounds last week, bringing me to a total loss of 25 pounds!!), and I could feel it was resetting my equilibrium. So it’s something I might try again in a few months if I feel like it, but I could see myself losing focus on a “break”.
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captivatedheroine wrote: »Same concern here. I've lost around 25 lbs for the last 9 months, and my appetite has been fluctuating. I went on a vacation a week ago, and I wasn't strict with my diet. Before this vacation, I was semi-strict with my diet. When I got back, I felt hungrier than usual all the time, and I am not easily satiated anymore. I also crave for a lot of junk food lately, and I give in a lot which is not good. This is kinda messing me up mentally since I still want to shed some fat especially from my abdominal area.
Haha yeah. I was 2 lbs from my goal 3 years ago, and we went on vacation, ate out all the time, after that I was never able to get back to my deficit. Yes, part of it is more cravings/less willpower, but when I compare what I eat now with what I ate when I was losing, for the same deficit, I'd just be hungry all the time if I ate what I used to eat.
That's why I don't really understand why people recommend diet breaks all the time. It messed it all up for me.
I have similar concerns. I have lost 41 pounds and planning to lose 17+ more to be <25 BMI. I am at a weight that I considered healthy for a few years. People are making comments that make me feel like I am at an acceptable place. If I paused here, it could become a little too comfortable. What's worse is tat this isn't a magic number; I could change it and rationalize a little more... So I don't want to take a break. I want to push on through. If I get below 25 BMI, that is a magic number; I can't choose to change it. It's a weight I have not been at for a very long time and it is territory I hope to defend.1 -
CarvedTones wrote: »captivatedheroine wrote: »Same concern here. I've lost around 25 lbs for the last 9 months, and my appetite has been fluctuating. I went on a vacation a week ago, and I wasn't strict with my diet. Before this vacation, I was semi-strict with my diet. When I got back, I felt hungrier than usual all the time, and I am not easily satiated anymore. I also crave for a lot of junk food lately, and I give in a lot which is not good. This is kinda messing me up mentally since I still want to shed some fat especially from my abdominal area.
Haha yeah. I was 2 lbs from my goal 3 years ago, and we went on vacation, ate out all the time, after that I was never able to get back to my deficit. Yes, part of it is more cravings/less willpower, but when I compare what I eat now with what I ate when I was losing, for the same deficit, I'd just be hungry all the time if I ate what I used to eat.
That's why I don't really understand why people recommend diet breaks all the time. It messed it all up for me.
I have similar concerns. I have lost 41 pounds and planning to lose 17+ more to be <25 BMI. I am at a weight that I considered healthy for a few years. People are making comments that make me feel like I am at an acceptable place. If I paused here, it could become a little too comfortable. What's worse is tat this isn't a magic number; I could change it and rationalize a little more... So I don't want to take a break. I want to push on through. If I get below 25 BMI, that is a magic number; I can't choose to change it. It's a weight I have not been at for a very long time and it is territory I hope to defend.
NVM0 -
Thanks for reporting back!OP here. I ended up taking the advice on this thread and taking a break from my diet (more or less- I had around 1700 calories/day) for a week. It was a mixed experience for me. On the plus side, it was fun to eat more food than usual. On the negative side, it really killed my motivation for a bit. It was really hard to remember to log my calories, and I felt bad about my progress, especially when going back to lower calories. But I was able to lose weight really easily again afterward (I lost like 2 pounds last week, bringing me to a total loss of 25 pounds!!), and I could feel it was resetting my equilibrium. So it’s something I might try again in a few months if I feel like it, but I could see myself losing focus on a “break”.
I've also heard that the mental aspect of a maintenance break is good practice for after you are done losing - as it's basically a long maintenance break
you have to learn how to not regain 1 -
sky_northern wrote: »Thanks for reporting back!
I've also heard that the mental aspect of a maintenance break is good practice for after you are done losing - as it's basically a long maintenance break you have to learn how to not regain
I definitely see it as good mental training for the holidays, vacations, or any time you have to change your food routine drastically. Actually, most diet attempts I’ve failed in the past have been disrupted/derailed, so I think that’s just my weak spot! Better to be aware of it
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