So here's the thing I don't get about oil..

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  • KeriA
    KeriA Posts: 3,279 Member
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    I think one think to be aware of with oils is there smoke points. That is one reason coconut oil is better for cooking since its smoke point is higher. I also have read that some oils have so much Omega 3 that it would be hard to balance it with Omega 6 and the balance is important. Still trying to get a handle on it all and trying to wean my family away from cooking canola on higher heats and having too much. I was told it was not a good idea or worth it to cook with virgin olive oil but it should be great in salads etc. Some oils are so good for us. You need them. Anyway good question.
  • PJilly
    PJilly Posts: 21,743 Member
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    This might be kind of going off on a tangent, but I am afraid to use oil in anything because it has so many calories. Like when you fry eggs for instance. If you're frying 2 eggs and using one tablespoon of oil that 1 tablespoon is automatically 120 cal. So what , I just ate 140+120 = 260 cal just from eggs? That hardly seems fair. How can oil possibly be healthy if even have just a little bit is automatically a crazy amount of calories. It's not like you're having a bag of chips or cereal. It's really frustrating!

    Calories does not make something unhealthy, and just because something is low calorie doesn’t make it healthy for you. Think of it this way, what is better for you one Oreo or a salmon fillet? Ok, that is an easy one, but what about a bowel of lettuce, nothing else or the same salmon fillet? The salmon would be because it provide greater nutrients even though it is higher calorie. This is the same principle with oils.
    I'd think almost anything would be better than a "bowel" of lettuce. :laugh:
  • perceptualobfuscator
    perceptualobfuscator Posts: 159 Member
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    One cup seems quite typical for a batch of cookies or brownies, actually. And we do need fats in our diet. Canola oil, olive oil, etc are healthy and necessary.

    I used to be the person who cut all fats out of her diet - I don't like the taste or texture of oils and creams. By using MFP, I realized that I consistently consume far less fat than is required, and this is a problem for important things like cellular structure and brain function. I've been trying to improve, but I keep wanting to use applesauce instead, and feel discouraged by the high calories per serving.

    So what I'm saying is a) I'm not sure that it was used to excess in the scenario you mentioned, and b) being lipophobic can be actively damaging, as we need fat in our diet.

    Regarding the canola oil discussion, I use canola oil because of the Omega-3 to Omega-6 ratio. This is also why I use olive oil. As a lactose-intolerant vegetarian, I need to watch out for things like this, as I eat very nearly vegan. Also, it looks so pretty and yellow waving in the breeze. Canola is a popular farming crop in my region.
  • Rilke
    Rilke Posts: 1,201 Member
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    Yes, I appreciate oils, but you have to use the good ones! Olive oil, canola oil, flaxseed oil, grapeseed...these are some of the good ones. (Coconut oil is actually very high in saturated fat and is what fast food restaurants use to cook their fries.) The thing to understand is that healthy oils are high in monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats, which actually clear cholesterol from your arteries and improve your brain health. So while I can understand wanting to decrease your total fat intake and definitely your saturated fat intake, you NEED healthy oils!

    Actually, this is a little misinformed. PUFAs are a mixed bag, while coconut oil -- saturated fat and all -- is excellent for you.
  • heather3879
    heather3879 Posts: 26 Member
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    Yes, I appreciate oils, but you have to use the good ones! Olive oil, canola oil, flaxseed oil, grapeseed...these are some of the good ones. (Coconut oil is actually very high in saturated fat and is what fast food restaurants use to cook their fries.) The thing to understand is that healthy oils are high in monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats, which actually clear cholesterol from your arteries and improve your brain health. So while I can understand wanting to decrease your total fat intake and definitely your saturated fat intake, you NEED healthy oils!

    Actually, this is a little misinformed. PUFAs are a mixed bag, while coconut oil -- saturated fat and all -- is excellent for you.

    I don't appreciate being called "misinformed." Based on MY research, the assertion that coconut oil is "healthy" is "misinformed" - but I would never be so rude as to quote someone and say that. You're entitled to your opinion, based on research, but I will find my own information.
  • bcattoes
    bcattoes Posts: 17,299 Member
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    I rarely use oil. I mean, rarely. I cook with water. On occasion I might use oil, but it's minimal, then more water. Once in a while I'll make popcorn with coconut oil. I prefer to get my oils from the foods - avocado, olives, nuts. For me, it's much more enjoyable to eat the food and get the fiber and the oil rather than add on calories just for oil.

    That is the healthiest way to do it. You should get as much of your fat from foods as possible. Healthy foods, of course.
  • heather3879
    heather3879 Posts: 26 Member
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    Also...the article cited does not list any scientific sources for the data presented. I like to base my opinions on scientific evidence.
  • theflyingartist
    theflyingartist Posts: 385 Member
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    Yes, I appreciate oils, but you have to use the good ones! Olive oil, canola oil, flaxseed oil, grapeseed...these are some of the good ones. (Coconut oil is actually very high in saturated fat and is what fast food restaurants use to cook their fries.) The thing to understand is that healthy oils are high in monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats, which actually clear cholesterol from your arteries and improve your brain health. So while I can understand wanting to decrease your total fat intake and definitely your saturated fat intake, you NEED healthy oils!
    For sure! I've taken some Nutrition courses and going to enroll in Nutrition Research for my Master's.. I guess I prefer getting my oils and lipids from the raw source: avocados, ground peanuts, ect. When the oil is extracted from the food/plant... it creeps me out :tongue:
    Yet whomever invented the idea of extracting that oil is a genius, because many people can utilize that food source.
  • bluebird321
    bluebird321 Posts: 733 Member
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    Also...the article cited does not list any scientific sources for the data presented. I like to base my opinions on scientific evidence.

    I Recommend "Perfect Health Diet" by Paul Jaminet Ph.d and Shou-Ching Jaminet, Ph.D.

    Good information regarding Coconut Oil and short-chain fats. pp 84-85 has lots of citatations if you need those. Well worth reading.

    Good luck with your weight loss.
  • End6ame
    End6ame Posts: 903
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    Also...the article cited does not list any scientific sources for the data presented. I like to base my opinions on scientific evidence.

    No, but since you like doing your own research you can look up the individual claims made; I think that is the definition of research. Then you can take all of the individual pieces of information and construct your own opinions.
  • heather3879
    heather3879 Posts: 26 Member
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    So there are mixed reviews, but based on these articles from medical and scientific journals (along with other evidence I've reviewed), I won't be adding coconut oil to my diet anytime soon. At least not until there are more definitive scientific claims regarding the benefits and evidence to refute what I have found. These are from the National Institutes of Health. (And yes, I realize these are only abstracts, but I did not expect most people to want to read enire journal articles.)

    www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10948851
    www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8743559
    www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9310182
    www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21396159
    www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20687968 (this one is about the carcinogenic effect of reheating coconut oil)

    Enjoy researching!
  • Rilke
    Rilke Posts: 1,201 Member
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    So there are mixed reviews, but based on these articles from medical and scientific journals (along with other evidence I've reviewed), I won't be adding coconut oil to my diet anytime soon. At least not until there are more definitive scientific claims regarding the benefits and evidence to refute what I have found. These are from the National Institutes of Health. (And yes, I realize these are only abstracts, but I did not expect most people to want to read enire journal articles.)

    www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10948851
    www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8743559
    www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9310182
    www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21396159
    www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20687968 (this one is about the carcinogenic effect of reheating coconut oil)

    Enjoy researching!

    To each his own. I don't put much stock in any website about food that ends in .gov :P
  • FaithsVegWorkout
    FaithsVegWorkout Posts: 471
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    Coming from someone who only bakes vegan, I gotta say, if I'm gonna eat cake, cookies, brownies, whatever, it damn well better be rich and fattening and excessive and make me feel like I'm gonna puke and give me a major sugar crash when I'm done!!!
  • heather3879
    heather3879 Posts: 26 Member
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    To each his own. I don't put much stock in any website about food that ends in .gov :P
    [/quote]

    To clarify...they are posted on the NIH website but are from a variety of scholarly journals. You can find the journal name at the top of each article.
  • End6ame
    End6ame Posts: 903
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    So there are mixed reviews, but based on these articles from medical and scientific journals (along with other evidence I've reviewed), I won't be adding coconut oil to my diet anytime soon. At least not until there are more definitive scientific claims regarding the benefits and evidence to refute what I have found. These are from the National Institutes of Health. (And yes, I realize these are only abstracts, but I did not expect most people to want to read enire journal articles.)

    www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10948851
    www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8743559
    www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9310182
    www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21396159
    www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20687968 (this one is about the carcinogenic effect of reheating coconut oil)

    Enjoy researching!


    All of the following topics are interrelated so I figured I’d list them all. All of them also have references listed at the end. Happy researching to all! :-)

    Research specific to coconut oil.
    http://coconutoil.com/research.htm

    Research specific to saturated fats.
    http://coconutoil.com/saturated_fats.htm

    Research specific to cholesterol.
    http://coconutoil.com/cholesterol.htm

    Research on PUSFAs
    http://coconutoil.com/unsaturated.htm
  • Rilke
    Rilke Posts: 1,201 Member
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    To each his own. I don't put much stock in any website about food that ends in .gov :P
    To clarify...they are posted on the NIH website but are from a variety of scholarly journals. You can find the journal name at the top of each article.

    Yup. Here's the thing though -- most studies done with coconut oil use partially hydrogenated coconut oil. Any partially hydrogenated oil is bad -- even for rats and chickens, which were used in your studies.

    Virgin coconut oil is an entirely different food. It is eaten in abundance by island (and other) populations and they are healthy as horses.

    Here is a page (not from people trying to sell something) discussing coconut oil studies done on *people* and some other facts:
    http://www.msrc.co.uk/index.cfm/fuseaction/show/pageid/1121
  • mfpchris
    mfpchris Posts: 279 Member
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    It is really interesting the 1980s and later "Fat" hysteria. Personal preference 100% Okay, do what every you want.

    But what is *good* for you and what is *bad* for you are really challenging questions which I don't
    believe I, or anyone else on this thread, has completely answered. One exampe that cracks
    me up (laughing at myself here)

    This is 1985 in complete reverse.

    As noted, there is growing evidences that canola/rapeseed oil is *bad* for us.

    There is evidence that if you have an open pasture, grass fed organic cow and render
    it, the lard is *good* for you.

    True enough. 1985 is yelling and screaming, but 2011 is more apt to hold its tongue.

    Saturated Fats, Mono, Polyun, etc. Omega 3s, and maybe even more important is
    Omega 3/Omega 6 ratios.

    There is the whole "transformation" occurring with heat. Freshness and oils instability, etc.

    I believe, at a very gross high-level way, that the Twinkie Diet works.

    Imagine a prisoner who eat only what is provided and nothing. "Maintenance calories - 100 cals" and you, or the prisioner, or me and everyone will lose weight.

    That is very very important. As "overweight" might be the single most unhealthy component of our lives. But certainly not being overweight AND eating foods that are *good* for us is even better.

    It is all sort of funny in a way. Good luck! Don't stress about your food preferences
    as the stress is probably worse for you then whatever it is your trying to avoid.
    :smile:
  • End6ame
    End6ame Posts: 903
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    It is really interesting the 1980s and later "Fat" hysteria. Personal preference 100% Okay, do what every you want.

    But what is *good* for you and what is *bad* for you are really challenging questions which I don't
    believe I, or anyone else on this thread, has completely answered. One exampe that cracks
    me up (laughing at myself here)

    This is 1985 in complete reverse.

    As noted, there is growing evidences that canola/rapeseed oil is *bad* for us.

    There is evidence that if you have an open pasture, grass fed organic cow and render
    it, the lard is *good* for you.

    True enough. 1985 is yelling and screaming, but 2011 is more apt to hold its tongue.

    Saturated Fats, Mono, Polyun, etc. Omega 3s, and maybe even more important is
    Omega 3/Omega 6 ratios.

    There is the whole "transformation" occurring with heat. Freshness and oils instability, etc.

    I believe, at a very gross high-level way, that the Twinkie Diet works.

    Imagine a prisoner who eat only what is provided and nothing. "Maintenance calories - 100 cals" and you, or the prisioner, or me and everyone will lose weight.

    That is very very important. As "overweight" might be the single most unhealthy component of our lives. But certainly not being overweight AND eating foods that are *good* for us is even better.

    It is all sort of funny in a way. Good luck! Don't stress about your food preferences
    as the stress is probably worse for you then whatever it is your trying to avoid.
    :smile:

    This is life. What we “know” today will be wrong tomorrow. But hey, we can still argue, debate, pass along irrelevant advice, name call, and get mad today, so that we can change our minds tomorrow and start the process all over again.
  • Gary1977
    Gary1977 Posts: 804 Member
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    Yes, I appreciate oils, but you have to use the good ones! Olive oil, canola oil, flaxseed oil, grapeseed...these are some of the good ones. (Coconut oil is actually very high in saturated fat and is what fast food restaurants use to cook their fries.) The thing to understand is that healthy oils are high in monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats, which actually clear cholesterol from your arteries and improve your brain health. So while I can understand wanting to decrease your total fat intake and definitely your saturated fat intake, you NEED healthy oils!

    I just wanted to point out to you that harldy any fast food restaurants use coconut oil to cook it. The main reason being that it costs MUCH more than what they're buying. I've been a manager in fast food a great deal of my adult working life (probably part of the reason I'm so fat) and know from experience that most do not use this. Also, the fat is coconut oil is a very healthy fat. As another poster pointed out, coconut & evoo are some of the best oils one can consume.
  • Lunachic77
    Lunachic77 Posts: 434 Member
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    Here's my dilemma...

    I don't mind using oil in small amounts to cook with. Typically, I'll use a tbsp of EVOO to cook with. Where I get iffy is when I make salads and salad dressings. One of the homemade recipes I have calls for 3 tbsp. olive oil and 4 tbsp. water then you toss the whole salad in it. Sometimes I will eat a whole salad for dinner...that means I'm eating 42g of fat which puts me over on my allotted fat total for the day. Is this okay to do? What is the limit to how much oil you can eat per day?

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