Can't build muscle in deficit Q
Options
LAWoman72
Posts: 2,846 Member
So I have heard you can't build muscle in a deficit but I'm not sure I'm remembering that correctly. Does this mean you can not be in any deficit at all, as in, under TDEE, or does it mean not under one's BMR? Or...? Thanks for any help.
0
Replies
-
Eating below TDEE is a deficit. Eating below BMR is under-eating. The idea is that in order to create new muscle tissue you have to use extra calories. Can’t create something out of nothing.
There are newbie gains but you have to be quite new to lifting and it doesn’t last long.
You can preserve your existing muscle by lifting, eating enough protein and following a lifting program. Then, as you lose fat your muscle will be more visible. Can still make strength gains up to a point.3 -
Okay, got it. Thanks.
But then...how am I losing fat as you say, without a deficit?0 -
The answer is, It depends...
Take 1 point for each of the following.
Male
Under 30
Obese
Never lifted in a progressive/structured manner before
The more points you get, the more likely it is that you can gain some strength/muscle in a deficit.
I may have missed a couple of elements.2 -
No there isn't a magic switch that gets thrown when you go one calorie under TDEE that prevents muscle protein synthesis. Not that your body actually knows you are in a deficit of course.
Like most absolute statements "you can't build muscle in a deficit" is incorrect.
Do also remember that deficit is a range, bigger the deficit the harder it becomes.
Add previously lifted, current training status, genetically gifted, PEDs to list above.
I hate the phrase "you can't build something out of nothing". My current TDEE is around 3,000 and 2,999 would be a deficit and certainly isn't nothing.
1 -
stanmann571 wrote: »The answer is, It depends...
Take 1 point for each of the following.
Male
Under 30
Obese
Never lifted in a progressive/structured manner before
The more points you get, the more likely it is that you can gain some strength/muscle in a deficit.
I may have missed a couple of elements.
I missed one big one and therefore didn't really read the rest.
Well, hypothetically big.
0 -
No there isn't a magic switch that gets thrown when you go one calorie under TDEE that prevents muscle protein synthesis. Not that your body actually knows you are in a deficit of course.
Like most absolute statements "you can't build muscle in a deficit" is incorrect.
Do also remember that deficit is a range, bigger the deficit the harder it becomes.
Add previously lifted, current training status, genetically gifted, PEDs to list above.
I hate the phrase "you can't build something out of nothing". My current TDEE is around 3,000 and 2,999 would be a deficit and certainly isn't nothing.
Well, what I'm really looking for here is: the idea is you can't build in a deficit (just to be general about it, I get your points) BUT that also the muscle doesn't show until the fat reduces...how exactly is the muscle reducing if there is no deficit?
I am really just asking how to do this, LOL. Build some muscle...and lose some fat. I have read all the truisms, including the one I cited in the title, so...how DOES it happen, then? How does the fat go down (that critical second portion of the equation), without a calorie deficit? If as you say this is incorrect, then...how exactly does it happen...it's just a minimal deficit, or...?
Would love anyone's input on this. I have hunted an answer to this question for some time and it seems to be something that gets answered in truisms ("how long is a piece of string?" is my all-time favorite dance-around-a-not-answer) or memes rather than "Well, LAWoman...here's how you actually do it."
I don't need actual literal numbers etched in stone, just...people DO do this. They build muscle...and they lose fat. How does it happen??? I've lost a lot of fat, but have just started trying to get some muscle...and I still need to lose some fat. Hope this makes sense the way I've written it. 0 -
No there isn't a magic switch that gets thrown when you go one calorie under TDEE that prevents muscle protein synthesis. Not that your body actually knows you are in a deficit of course.
Like most absolute statements "you can't build muscle in a deficit" is incorrect.
Do also remember that deficit is a range, bigger the deficit the harder it becomes.
Add previously lifted, current training status, genetically gifted, PEDs to list above.
I hate the phrase "you can't build something out of nothing". My current TDEE is around 3,000 and 2,999 would be a deficit and certainly isn't nothing.
Well, what I'm really looking for here is: the idea is you can't build in a deficit (just to be general about it, I get your points) BUT that also the muscle doesn't show until the fat reduces...how exactly is the muscle reducing if there is no deficit?
I am really just asking how to do this, LOL. Build some muscle...and lose some fat. I have read all the truisms, including the one I cited in the title, so...how DOES it happen, then? How does the fat go down (that critical second portion of the equation), without a calorie deficit?
I believe that is where cutting and bulking cycles come in. You (ideally) lift and eat above maintenance and build some muscle and gain some fat, then you lift and eat at a deficit and lose fat and maintain your existing muscle.0 -
Either you are in a deficit (losing fat), in maintenance (recomping - very slowly losing fat and adding small amounts of muscle), or in a surplus (gaining muscle and fat). Assuming you are also following a proven, progressive lifting program.0
-
So it has to be one at a time...
But if I were to get some muscle, then go back to cutting back calories to lose fat...won't I also lose the muscle...?
0 -
So it has to be one at a time...
But if I were to get some muscle, then go back to cutting back calories to lose fat...won't I also lose the muscle...?
That's commonly referred to as a bulk/cut cycle. If you continue the heavy lifting and get adequate protein, you'll maintain the muscle.3 -
No there isn't a magic switch that gets thrown when you go one calorie under TDEE that prevents muscle protein synthesis. Not that your body actually knows you are in a deficit of course.
Like most absolute statements "you can't build muscle in a deficit" is incorrect.
Do also remember that deficit is a range, bigger the deficit the harder it becomes.
Add previously lifted, current training status, genetically gifted, PEDs to list above.
I hate the phrase "you can't build something out of nothing". My current TDEE is around 3,000 and 2,999 would be a deficit and certainly isn't nothing.
Well, what I'm really looking for here is: the idea is you can't build in a deficit (just to be general about it, I get your points) BUT that also the muscle doesn't show until the fat reduces...how exactly is the muscle reducing if there is no deficit?
I am really just asking how to do this, LOL. Build some muscle...and lose some fat. I have read all the truisms, including the one I cited in the title, so...how DOES it happen, then? How does the fat go down (that critical second portion of the equation), without a calorie deficit? If as you say this is incorrect, then...how exactly does it happen...it's just a minimal deficit, or...?
Would love anyone's input on this. I have hunted an answer to this question for some time and it seems to be something that gets answered in truisms ("how long is a piece of string?" is my all-time favorite dance-around-a-not-answer) or memes rather than "Well, LAWoman...here's how you actually do it." I don't need actual literal numbers etched in stone, just...people DO do this. They build muscle...and they lose fat. How does it happen??? I've lost a lot of fat, but have just started trying to get some muscle...and I still need to lose some fat. Hope this makes sense the way I've written it.
Ultimately, In a deficit, most people lose fat and muscle.
Best case: gain muscle and lose fat.
Moderate case: lose fat, maintain muscle
IN either of the two above, you need to be feeding muscle(protein) and training muscle(quality programming) If you neglect either, you will lose muscle, and probably strength.
Alternately, you can eat maintenance and lose fat/gain muscle... aka Recomp.1 -
So it has to be one at a time...
But if I were to get some muscle, then go back to cutting back calories to lose fat...won't I also lose the muscle...?
No it doesn't have to be one at a time - recomp is fat loss and muscle gain concurrently while eating at or around maintenance calories.
Your body doesn't sacrifice muscle without provocation. Such as through malnutrition (which could just be an inappropriate large deficit) or inactivity (use 'em or lose 'em).0 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »So it has to be one at a time...
But if I were to get some muscle, then go back to cutting back calories to lose fat...won't I also lose the muscle...?
That's commonly referred to as a bulk/cut cycle. If you continue the heavy lifting and get adequate protein, you'll maintain the muscle.
Thank God. An answer. I heart you.
Thanks for the info.1 -
-
stanmann571 wrote: »No there isn't a magic switch that gets thrown when you go one calorie under TDEE that prevents muscle protein synthesis. Not that your body actually knows you are in a deficit of course.
Like most absolute statements "you can't build muscle in a deficit" is incorrect.
Do also remember that deficit is a range, bigger the deficit the harder it becomes.
Add previously lifted, current training status, genetically gifted, PEDs to list above.
I hate the phrase "you can't build something out of nothing". My current TDEE is around 3,000 and 2,999 would be a deficit and certainly isn't nothing.
Well, what I'm really looking for here is: the idea is you can't build in a deficit (just to be general about it, I get your points) BUT that also the muscle doesn't show until the fat reduces...how exactly is the muscle reducing if there is no deficit?
I am really just asking how to do this, LOL. Build some muscle...and lose some fat. I have read all the truisms, including the one I cited in the title, so...how DOES it happen, then? How does the fat go down (that critical second portion of the equation), without a calorie deficit? If as you say this is incorrect, then...how exactly does it happen...it's just a minimal deficit, or...?
Would love anyone's input on this. I have hunted an answer to this question for some time and it seems to be something that gets answered in truisms ("how long is a piece of string?" is my all-time favorite dance-around-a-not-answer) or memes rather than "Well, LAWoman...here's how you actually do it." I don't need actual literal numbers etched in stone, just...people DO do this. They build muscle...and they lose fat. How does it happen??? I've lost a lot of fat, but have just started trying to get some muscle...and I still need to lose some fat. Hope this makes sense the way I've written it.
Ultimately, In a deficit, most people lose fat and muscle.
Best case: gain muscle and lose fat.
Moderate case: lose fat, maintain muscle
IN either of the two above, you need to be feeding muscle(protein) and training muscle(quality programming) If you neglect either, you will lose muscle, and probably strength.
Alternately, you can eat maintenance and lose fat/gain muscle... aka Recomp.
Okay. ATM I'm shooting for 100g of protein/day. I weigh 158 right now. That may not be enough but I'm working on it. Thanks for the info!0 -
So it has to be one at a time...
But if I were to get some muscle, then go back to cutting back calories to lose fat...won't I also lose the muscle...?
As above, it doesn't have to be, especially as someone who is a relative beginner and still overweight to some degree.
Every point counts.stanmann571 wrote: »The answer is, It depends...
Take 1 point for each of the following.
Male
Under 30
Obese
Never lifted in a progressive/structured manner before
The more points you get, the more likely it is that you can gain some strength/muscle in a deficit.I may have missed a couple of elements.
I missed one big one and therefore didn't really read the rest.
Well, hypothetically big.
Every point counts. You've got at least 1.5 points in your favor1 -
Thanks!
Well, this is some good news, anyway.0 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »Either you are in a deficit (losing fat), in maintenance (recomping - very slowly losing fat and adding small amounts of muscle), or in a surplus (gaining muscle and fat). Assuming you are also following a proven, progressive lifting program.
So what happens to your body when you are in a deficit and following a proven, progressive lifting program?1 -
If you're an advanced or intermediate lifter, you don't lose much muscle or strength.SmithsonianEmpress wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »Either you are in a deficit (losing fat), in maintenance (recomping - very slowly losing fat and adding small amounts of muscle), or in a surplus (gaining muscle and fat). Assuming you are also following a proven, progressive lifting program.
So what happens to your body when you are in a deficit and following a proven, progressive lifting program?
If you're a beginner lifter, you maintain or gain strength and possibly muscle.
1 -
So I have heard you can't build muscle in a deficit but I'm not sure I'm remembering that correctly. Does this mean you can not be in any deficit at all, as in, under TDEE, or does it mean not under one's BMR? Or...? Thanks for any help.
Your deficit comes from your TDEE...the number (or range) of calories you need to maintain. When you're in an energy deficiency, you are catabolic...to build meaningful muscle you need to be anabolic...and you cannot be both catabolic and anabolic at the same time...essentially, you can't build something from nothing.SmithsonianEmpress wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »Either you are in a deficit (losing fat), in maintenance (recomping - very slowly losing fat and adding small amounts of muscle), or in a surplus (gaining muscle and fat). Assuming you are also following a proven, progressive lifting program.
So what happens to your body when you are in a deficit and following a proven, progressive lifting program?
If you're a beginner, and particularly if you're very over fat, you main experience some noob gains...these are fairly minimal gains in muscle mass and are short lived. When you lift in a deficit, you help maintain the muscle mass that you have so that when you cut the fat you have that nice "toned" look. Many people mistake cutting fat and revealing muscle for actual muscle mass gains...when in reality, they're just showing off what they always had under the fat. People often also mistake "pump" for gains in muscle mass...but what they're really seeing is their muscles filling with water.
You can also make some really good strength gains...again, not to be confused with gains in muscle mass. Those strength gains come primarily from neural adaptation and recruitment of existing muscle fibers that weren't being readily used before...4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkBtHOBmpb0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.7K Introduce Yourself
- 43.5K Getting Started
- 259.8K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 395 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.3K MyFitnessPal Information
- 23 News and Announcements
- 959 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.3K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions