? about recommended rate of loss and, uh, motivation
jjpptt2
Posts: 5,650 Member
I'm going to try to word this in the most objective, non-snarky way I can... because I really don't mean it to be snarky. I mean it as a legit question.
A little background, fwiw...
I'm 41, male.
I've been as high as 190lbs, as low as 160lbs. Currently at 181.
I've been at this MFP thing for, I dunno... 8ish years.
I typically cut/lose during the spring and summer, then bulk/gain during the winter (intentionally).
I understand why people suggest/recommend slower rates of loss for people with less to lose. Cognitively, it makes sense. But how do you balance that realistically with the ability to stay focused and motivated? If someone told me that I should plan on a year to lose my 15 vanity lbs, I'd probably quit right then and there. Grinding this out, day in and day out, for a year... just for 15 vanity lbs??? The mental effort it requires for me to stay on track is not worth it (to me) for ~.3-.5lbs week loss.
Am I the only one that struggles with that?
Again, logically I get it. But emotionally... how do people come to terms with that?
A little background, fwiw...
I'm 41, male.
I've been as high as 190lbs, as low as 160lbs. Currently at 181.
I've been at this MFP thing for, I dunno... 8ish years.
I typically cut/lose during the spring and summer, then bulk/gain during the winter (intentionally).
I understand why people suggest/recommend slower rates of loss for people with less to lose. Cognitively, it makes sense. But how do you balance that realistically with the ability to stay focused and motivated? If someone told me that I should plan on a year to lose my 15 vanity lbs, I'd probably quit right then and there. Grinding this out, day in and day out, for a year... just for 15 vanity lbs??? The mental effort it requires for me to stay on track is not worth it (to me) for ~.3-.5lbs week loss.
Am I the only one that struggles with that?
Again, logically I get it. But emotionally... how do people come to terms with that?
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Replies
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It's either worth it or not to someone. I've lost a little over 35 pounds in the past 4-5 months. I still have about 20 to lose but it'll probably take me a year to lose it. I'm okay with that because the time will go by anyway, and I might as well work toward my goal in the meantime!
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Some of us have no real “choice” on how quickly we can lose. As a short 40 year old, I had to work my butt off for 1 year to lose 20 pounds! I could not have eaten less without developing an eating disorder. But—20 pounds at my height is like losing 50-60 to taller people IMO.4
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I think as long as you're reaching a nutritionally balanced and safe calorie goal for your height, weight and sex (generally speaking, a minimum of 1200 for women and 1500 for men), the pace of your weight loss is up to you. If you can handle the hunger that comes with a lower calorie goal (and the higher chance of muscle loss), go for it.
I only have around 10-15lbs left to lose and I'd like to do so in the next few months so I can buy my wedding dress at a smaller size. So my goal is a bit aggressive and I'm trying to stick to around 1200-1300 cals a day. My TDEE is 1800, so if I wasn't in any rush, I'd probably be averaging around 1400-1500 calories a day instead.
In short... do what works for you, as long as you're keeping yourself healthy and sane in the process.
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At this point though balanced nutrition and working out have become my lifestyle. I choose to live this way and happier doing so regardless of weight2
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I guess I went into this treating the changes to my diet and exercise habits as something I'd be doing for the rest of my life, not just during the time I was losing weight. The number of calories I'll have to live on at 135 lbs is going to be significantly less than when I was actively gaining at 208, so learning to control my portions and stay satiated on less is key. Also I hate suffering and enjoy eating, and losing slow means I get to eat more and suffer less. And even if I got to 150 and decided I didn't want to keep up the deficit anymore, I'd still be way, way healthier than I was when I started.Biker_SuzCO wrote: »Some of us have no real “choice” on how quickly we can lose. As a short 40 year old, I had to work my butt off for 1 year to lose 20 pounds! I could not have eaten less without developing an eating disorder. But—20 pounds at my height is like losing 50-60 to taller people IMO.
Yeah, and there's also the fact that when people don't have a lot to lose, it really is difficult to keep that deficit going while staying healthy, so advising people to be patient is as much about expectation management as anything else.9 -
For me, the slower rate of weight loss is actually more sustainable because the caloric deficit doesn't have to be so severe. If I had to cut too severely, I wouldn't last two days even if I were losing rapidly. I'd feel too deprived.
It's less mentally and emotionally taxing, for me personally, to eat at a moderate deficit. I can continue to enjoy the foods I like albeit in smaller portions.
Another point: people close to GW will have to learn to eat at maintenance. Maintenance lasts forever unless we all plan to return to the weight loss forums in the future. What better time to learn to eat near maintenance, by eating for a loss of .5lb/week, than just before you reach GW?
I'll also add that I have felt exactly as you feel in the past but now I really believe the slower, less restrictive route is the way to go.8 -
P.S.: Thanks for asking the question. I find this angle on weightloss really interesting and I feel like it's not discussed often enough. So much of this is mental and emotional.3
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I was just told it may take a year for me to lose 20 LBS. I was kind of shocked that it would take that long. I am hoping I will stay motivated that long
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If you can't put in a year for 15 pounds how are you gonna maintain for the rest of your life? It's still the same Amount of hard work. You don't just get to stop after 1510
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You're exaggerating, you can lose 15 pounds in less than a year... but I actually have to do what I'm doing (not inclined to call it grinding, more awareness) every day, every year, just to not regain. After I came to terms with that, I don't struggle anymore. You don't stop brushing your teeth just because you had no cavities, do you? It just is what it is.8
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I don’t think of my “goal weight” as a real thing, honestly. It’s where I think I want to be? But I’m just enjoying watching my body change with the work I put in for it. If the scale stopped moving today but I saw more definition, I would still keep going.5
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I did a lot of looking into where the idea of 0.5 lb per week losses if you have less than 20 lbs to lose came from a couple of months back. First, I think it's morphed out of 15-20% deficit from TDEE (it's just easier to tell people to aim for 0.5 lb per week). Second, the less body fat you have, the harder your body fights to maintain it, cos, y'know, there might be a food shortage (thanks, evolution). So with less weight to lose, you're going to feel the effects of leptin dropping a lot sooner than someone with more body fat, and that means hunger, and more difficulty in adhering to a deficit. This is where diet breaks and refeeds come in. Planning those in helps to reset hormone levels, allowing for an easier time when you're in a deficit.
My N=1: I set about shedding some creep weight (NZ winter combined with injury, less active, kept eating like I wasn't less active) in mid August. For six weeks I felt like I was going in circles and it was just a slog (NB, I was doing a 500 cal/1 lb per week deficit). Did a diet break, shed some most likely cortisol-induced water weight as a result of that, followed diet break with weekend high carb refeeds. Never felt like I was struggling during the week at a deficit (deficit was variable, only pulled a full 3500 cal deficit for the week once, and that was enough, not easy to do in 5 days, I just happened to be super active that week), energy levels were fab thanks to glycogen levels being replenished every weekend. Got to goal with ease and grace (okay, was helped along at the end by the mother of all eczema flares, so actually hit goal a couple of weeks early), and I'm sure quicker than I would have if I'd tried to continue slogging it out at a daily deficit. YMMV.7 -
I aim for 1% of body weight per week
When I’m not lean (over 10-12% bf )
At 220lb I aim for 2.2lb per week,
When I’m lean I aim for 0.5% of body weight per week.
Currently at 209lb and aiming for just over
1lb per week1 -
I don't really think of 1 lb per week as too fast unless one is quite small or really working on body composition and trying to get quite lean. If the latter, the focus should be less on weight loss as the strength training program and so on, I'd think, and that -- as well as following physical changes and strength improvements -- would supply the motivation, and the loss would be secondary.
Beyond that, I think losing 15 lbs super slowly would not require a way of tracking and eating all that differently than maintenance. Just eat a bit less and adjust if you aren't losing. Since maintenance IS (for me, anyway) harder than losing, not a bad thing to start working on, and I'd do that more like a recomp.3 -
Biker_SuzCO wrote: »Some of us have no real “choice” on how quickly we can lose. As a short 40 year old, I had to work my butt off for 1 year to lose 20 pounds! I could not have eaten less without developing an eating disorder. But—20 pounds at my height is like losing 50-60 to taller people IMO.
Totally get this.im at a 17lbs loss with 8 to go before i will be happy finally and im a shorty too, weight looks rubbish on me and finally im beginning to look healthy, its harder for us wee guys.
I do this for me and my mind, im unhappy being fat.im happier being like i am now, its whats in my head, but im sure overall im healthier for it.keep focused and yes i know this is a pain but theres no quick fix if you want a healthy body and mind.0 -
A couple of things that popped into my head as I was reading your post OP:
- This is one reason why I often suggest people find a away that they can naturally eat for the rest of their life at the correct calorie level. Then you don't have to stay "motivated", it's just the way you eat. If you want to lose a few lbs, you eat a little less for awhile. If you want to gain a few lbs, you eat a little more.
- Even at a pace of 0.5 lb per week, 15 lbs would take you 6 months, not a year. Drama queen
- If you are reasonably active, and an average height or taller guy, you might be able to lose the first few at a 1 lb per week rate, and cut that time down even further. I do know some guys who do bulk/cut cycles do cut a little more aggressively than the typical advice, because they have plenty of calories to work with and can do a 500 cal deficit for several months without being hangry or their workouts suffering even though they aren't overweight.
Honestly, I find eating at a 250 cal deficit isn't a struggle, and since my maintenance cals are on the low side, I decided I'd rather it take forever and still eat what I wanted. Even so, every year I basically take December and January off, because cold weather makes me want to eat! But if paying any sort of attention to the numbers is what you need motivation for, maybe trying for a slightly shorter time frame by increasing your deficit a bit would be a better decision for you. Hope you get some ideas from the thread, good luck!6 -
i mean...if you didnt want to gain more weight youd eat to maintain...the entire point of losing slow is to make it sustainable. the calorie difference to lose 15 pounds in a year would be basically no different thn maintenance. Why wouldthat make it so difficult and quit worthy o_O Beats being fatter next year or starving4
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It's your body. If you'd like to see faster progress, set your calories for 1500 to 1800 for a couple weeks and see how you feel. Then slow it down after you lose five pounds or something . Sounds like you might be more motivated with some immediate gratification.1
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some interesting responses... thank you. Keep em coming!0
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During my initial weight loss, I never purposefully slowed my rate of loss...it just happened...my guess is adaptive thermogenesis from being in a deficit for 9 months. I initially lost 40 Lbs at an average rate of about 1-1.5 Lbs per week which slowed as I neared the end.
I've more or less maintained my weight now for going on 5 years this spring...I did drop another 5 Lbs a few years ago to get down to 175 but then went back up to 180 because it was just more comfortable and easier to maintain given what I was willing and not willing to do. I had no problem dropping that 5 Lbs over the course of about 1 month.
I usually put on a bit of weight during the winter...usually 8-10 Lbs, and I take that off in about 8-10 weeks give or take when I cut.
I don't really subscribe to the lose much slower philosophy when cutting those Lbs...I look more at a general rule of thumb of 1% of body weight...that said, anymore than about 1 Lb per week isn't happening for me because I'm not willing to cut my calories like that...a 500 calorie deficit for a quick cut in the spring is pretty easily doable. I also make sure I keep my protein a bit higher in a cut as well.
I think the slow just happens when you've been in a deficit for a long time...once hormones are all re-calibrated, etc it's pretty easy to cut again.
ETA: I think it becomes more of an issue when you're already very lean...when I'm 180 I'm about 15%, so not super lean...still plenty of body fat there to lose about 1 Lb per week. If I was cutting from 12% or 10% or trying for single digits, my answer might be different.0 -
Idea is that if you can do that 250/day level, it is nothing to transition to 0/day, to do it for ever... rather than trying to go from a 750/day level for 6 months to 0/day the next....
But realistically, toss the per day stuff.... What you want is to look at it as two averages.... What is your average over 7 days, and over 28 days.... This means you can go over the top on the weekend, and then tone it back the other 5 days... and that if one week gets away from you, hey, you got 3 weeks to make it up.
Puts a lot less stress on the day to day stuff, and rewards you for being under by letting you go over some other time.
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It took me exactly ONE year to lose the last 15#. But it wasn’t like 1# per month, it was up 5, down2, up 4 down 6.3
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I'm going to try to word this in the most objective, non-snarky way I can... because I really don't mean it to be snarky. I mean it as a legit question.
A little background, fwiw...
I'm 41, male.
I've been as high as 190lbs, as low as 160lbs. Currently at 181.
I've been at this MFP thing for, I dunno... 8ish years.
I typically cut/lose during the spring and summer, then bulk/gain during the winter (intentionally).
I understand why people suggest/recommend slower rates of loss for people with less to lose. Cognitively, it makes sense. But how do you balance that realistically with the ability to stay focused and motivated? If someone told me that I should plan on a year to lose my 15 vanity lbs, I'd probably quit right then and there. Grinding this out, day in and day out, for a year... just for 15 vanity lbs??? The mental effort it requires for me to stay on track is not worth it (to me) for ~.3-.5lbs week loss.
Am I the only one that struggles with that?
Again, logically I get it. But emotionally... how do people come to terms with that?
I can really only speak to my own thinking but for me, this is so much more than just losing weight. That's not particularly hard to do. It's much more about keeping it off for good. That's a lot harder because it never ends. I'm never going to be finished.
Most people try to use motivation to lose weight and that's a fundamental flaw in their plan. Motivation is fickle and won't last. If I'm trying to stay motivated I'm going to lose that motivation sooner or later. If instead I'm working on making easily manageable lifestyle changes that are sustainable over time, it's not work or a struggle. It's just the way I want to live.
I also think the whole idea of a time frame for losing weight is trouble waiting to happen. It says that all I'm focused on is getting the end when I'm finished losing weight. Who cares how long it takes to lose the weight? I'm going to be living like this for many, many years to come. So what does it matter? The weight will come off when it comes off.4 -
FWIW, just as a clarifier... health has nothing to do with this for me. So the whole "lifestyle for the rest of my life" mentality doesn't really come into play (for me).0
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I lose 1-2 pounds, sometimes 3-4, a week when I diet. That's the only way I can stay motivated, and I know I also lose some muscle in the process. I exercise near daily, and lift weights but never feel like I get malnutrition or weaker despite losing weight fast "too fast".
In my eyes, I am not healthy when I am fat, so why should I be concerned if losing weight too fast is also not healthy? I feel like losing the weight fast and then maintaining a balance diet afterwards is healthier than just staying fat. Plus, it's my body.
Counting the calories close enough to lose only .5 pounds/week gets tedious to me, and it can take WEEKS to even see if it's working. I lose motivation before I even get started. I love being able to step on the scale every 2-3 days and see a slightly lower number each time.5 -
Because I compete in a sport that requires a high level of fitness (to compete at the level I want to anyways), losing weight would be nice, but fitness is far more important. I've got fat to lose - about 25 pounds of it to honest. I'm losing at about .5/lb/week. That's slow.
A few years ago when I decided I wanted to try to compete at higher levels racing, I knew I'd have to work on my fitness. My weight at that time was about 10 pounds above where I'm at now. To keep up my "motivation" my mantra became "embrace the suck." I knew it was going to suck. It was going to suck getting back into shape (especially the first few months), it was going to suck not seeing the scale drop very fast, and even how my clothes fit was going to suck for awhile. That was too bad, and I'd just have to "embrace the suck."
That mantra worked well for me.
Having to use it again now as I'm finally able to return to "regular" workouts after a badly broken leg and subsequent four surgeries over the past year. I put on a fair bit of the weigh I had previously lost (lost a bunch at first with the leg, but then my appetite came back but my activity couldn't come back).
When the alarm goes off and I'm still tired, or I'm choosing broccoli to go with my burger instead of fries, I just mumble to myself "embrace the suck" and do it anyways.2 -
I lose 1-2 pounds, sometimes 3-4, a week when I diet. That's the only way I can stay motivated, and I know I also lose some muscle in the process. I exercise near daily, and lift weights but never feel like I get malnutrition or weaker despite losing weight fast "too fast".
In my eyes, I am not healthy when I am fat, so why should I be concerned if losing weight too fast is also not healthy? I feel like losing the weight fast and then maintaining a balance diet afterwards is healthier than just staying fat. Plus, it's my body.
Counting the calories close enough to lose only .5 pounds/week gets tedious to me, and it can take WEEKS to even see if it's working. I lose motivation before I even get started. I love being able to step on the scale every 2-3 days and see a slightly lower number each time.
Ok, so you know it’s unhealthy, why post it for others looking for help? Is your advice really just get the weight off as quickly as possible, consequences to your body and mind be damned?3 -
There are two factors at play.
First of all a 15% to 20% deficit is just about as fast as you can go to get the least negative reactions from your body in terms of lean mass lost and adaptation over time (as far as I've been able to determine to this point of time), unless you have available fat levels usually associated with being obese, in which case 25% deficits of off TDEE are possible.
Secondly, by setting yourself up for a period of restriction and then change you're overtly acknowledging that you're doing something different now as compared to later. But what is it that you're doing later? Maintaining? Were you maintaining before this period of restriction? What tools do you have to maintain with? Are you going to be mindful for a few weeks and then joyfully frolic into your effortless maintenance?
Yes, some people have trouble losing in the first place. But a LOT succeed.
Out of that LOT, only a very few MAINTAIN one, two, five years down the road.
For most of my life I remained overweight or obese because I knew that it was useless to try and lose weight! I'd known a lot of people IRL who had lost weight. NONE of them had managed to maintain their losses long term.
Not one of them had lost their weight using smaller deficits, longer time frames, and sustainable life changes.
When I decided that my health gave me no option but to try, I started on the traditional dieting route.
You know the one? Go go go as much as you can with exercise; eat as little as you can without killing anyone.
After coming to the conclusion that there was no way in **kitten** that I would be able to sustain that WOE long term, and thus i would be condemned to immediate regain, I desperately looked for a better solution and found MFP.
Soon after joining MFP I dropped my deficits to less than 25% average the first year while obese and much lower (to nothing, i.e. maintenance) afterwards.
Looking back I see:
-45 to -50lbs in the year before joining MFP and
afterwards:
-72.5lbs (21.35% deficit),
-11.1 (3.51% deficit), and
~ -2lbs (~1% deficit)
I will let you know, in a few years, how it went ;-)
YMMV.
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Even if we ignore the negative implications, such as losing more lean mass than necessary, what would you do once you lost your 15 lbs of vanity weight? Wouldn't you want to maintain that through the summer, until your intentional winter bulk? How is it so much more of a grind to do whatever you need to do to lose half a pound a week than to do whatever you need to do to ensure you maintain for the months that follow until it's time for your bulk?7
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There are two factors at play.
First of all a 15% to 20% deficit is just about as fast as you can go to get the least negative reactions from your body in terms of lean mass lost and adaptation over time (as far as I've been able to determine to this point of time), unless you have available fat levels usually associated with being obese, in which case 25% deficits of off TDEE are possible.
Secondly, by setting yourself up for a period of restriction and then change you're overtly acknowledging that you're doing something different now as compared to later. But what is it that you're doing later? Maintaining? Were you maintaining before this period of restriction? What tools do you have to maintain with? Are you going to be mindful for a few weeks and then joyfully frolic into your effortless maintenance?
Yes, some people have trouble losing in the first place. But a LOT succeed.
Out of that LOT, only a very few MAINTAIN one, two, five years down the road.
For most of my life I remained overweight or obese because I knew that it was useless to try and lose weight! I'd known a lot of people IRL who had lost weight. NONE of them had managed to maintain their losses long term.
Not one of them had lost their weight using smaller deficits, longer time frames, and sustainable life changes.
When I decided that my health gave me no option but to try, I started on the traditional dieting route.
You know the one? Go go go as much as you can with exercise; eat as little as you can without killing anyone.
After coming to the conclusion that there was no way in **kitten** that I would be able to sustain that WOE long term, and thus i would be condemned to immediate regain, I desperately looked for a better solution and found MFP.
Soon after joining MFP I dropped my deficits to less than 25% average the first year while obese and much lower (to nothing, i.e. maintenance) afterwards.
Looking back I see:
-45 to -50lbs in the year before joining MFP and
afterwards:
-72.5lbs (21.35% deficit),
-11.1 (3.51% deficit), and
~ -2lbs (~1% deficit)
I will let you know, in a few years, how it went ;-)
YMMV.
See? Need the awesome button. I guess I will settle for inspiring 4
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