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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »SwissHausfrau wrote: »In the interests of clarity the person I was talking about has been a friend for over 15 years, she convinced me to re-start with MFP and when we were 'chatting' on messenger and I said 'what was with the sausage at breakfast' she laughed and said that was why she wanted me to read her diary. She is still a friend and loves me staying with her as I usually cook and fill her freezer.
The reason I have an open food diary for 'friends' is because I have got into food habits and often another set of eyes can point out something that might help. If someone points out something and makes me look at myself differently thats exactly what I asked them to do. isn't that the point as well as looking at someones diary and thinking 'thats a great meal for only 400 cal'?
As I said I am here to loose weight myself as although I am careful with choices I eat too much, so I didn't intend to come across as righteous or superior or for people to think that I was 'food shaming'. Clearly I could have worded my original post differently.
I don't claim to have the answers but making informed choices and reading ingredients before making a decision instead of afterwards when putting food into the diary can make a big difference. Looking at some food diaries really made me question if people do this.
I didn't think your post was righteous and certainly not 'shaming'. It's not as if you said "do this or you're wrong".
It's hard to think of a context in which eating a substance that has been deemed "rubbish" is good. It's a term we use for non-food, things that should be thrown away, things that are harmful. It's a hostile thing to say about someone's chosen food (it's actually actionable in some contexts, like an office environment with certain cultural subtexts) and it's certainly valid to interpret that as righteousness or potentially shameful for the person who is eating said "rubbish."
Oh please. Are you seriously saying you've never heard anyone say they eat rubbish??
I'm not sure what in my post would cause you to ask that question.
I'm talking about when people describe what *others eat* as rubbish, what we're seeing here. OP isn't describing her own diet, she's describing the feelings she has when she reads diaries and sees what others are choosing to eat.
If you think there is no difference between someone looking at their own food and saying it is "rubbish" and saying it about someone else's food, I suggest you to approach someone eating in a common work area and say it about their lunch or snack or maybe try it next time you're served food at someone's house. This may help reveal some of the differences between saying it about your own chosen food and saying it about what someone else is choosing to eat (or to serve you).
It was your first sentence - It's hard to think of a context in which eating a substance that has been deemed "rubbish" is good.
Obviously "rubbish" is a subjective term when it comes to food. I eat rubbish, crap, junk occasionally.
Allow me to clarify then, now that I understand where the misunderstanding arose.
It's hard to think of a context in which eating a substance that others consider "rubbish" is good.
There's a thing in society when people will often say things about themselves or their own choices/possessions that would be considered anywhere from impolite/tactless to hostile to say to others. If I get a new haircut, it's acceptable (in some contexts) for me to say it's awful and I hate it because it makes me look ten years older. If my co-worker says the same thing unprompted, that's very different. It's relatively normal for my brother to call his car a piece of junk when he gets frustrated with it, if I say the same thing when he's giving me a ride, it can have a very different context (some sibling relationships can include this type of talk, others are less able to).
Same with the food that we eat. It's relatively socially innocuous for me to describe my own cooking as "unhealthy" or my diet as "rubbish." For someone else to make the same comments is much trickier socially and depending on the relationship I have with the person and the context of the remarks, it is not at all the same thing as me critiquing myself. So if I walk up to someone in my common work eating area and ask them about the "rubbish" they're eating, I can expect a very different response than I would if someone asked me what I was eating and I laughed and some "Oh, some rubbish I threw together. I really need to clean up my act!"
I hope this clarifies some of the cultural differences between self-talk/self-critique and applying the same language to others, at least in the US-specific context I currently experience.7 -
SwissHausfrau wrote: »I have the luxury of being at home during the day and have time to cook. .
While I agree that people should be aware of what they are eating, until you've tried meal planning and food prepping when you have one day off a week, I don't think you can understand why people make the choices they make.
Be grateful you get to stay home. Some of us don't have that luxury.9 -
SwissHausfrau wrote: »There was a day about 7 years ago when I moved to the USA and I cooked dinner. A simple stir-fry, chicken, peppers, mushrooms and a tub of mexican salsa sauce. I served it with flour tortillas and cheese. One bite in and both my husband and I spat it out. He asked me if I'd added sugar instead of salt when cooking.... we checked the label on the salsa sauce and it was LOADED with sugar and other things I couldn't even pronounce.
From that day I made a resolution.. everything I cook will contain ingredients I can draw a picture of. I've stuck to it 95% of the time since. Now the only tinned things I buy are tomatoes, peas and occasionally baked beans (I LOVE them too much to give them up) I later found the whole 'clean eating' thing.
I have the luxury of being at home during the day and have time to cook. I cook monster sized pans of things to portion out and freeze. I also make my own sourdough. It makes grabbing something in a hurry so much easier.
It doesn't stop me from overeating (I LOVE food) which is why I am here.
If you work during the week and spend one day at the weekend at home doing laundry, house accounts and paying bills, watching TV etc, have some pots on the cooker at the same time. Yesterday I ground 6 kilo of beef, froze 4 x 500g bags for later and pressed 8 burgers, made 2 kg of bolognese which I turned into 2 lasagnes and then portioned the rest to have with spaghetti. While that was cooking I made oxtail soup - enough for 4 days for 2 people. I also turned 1.5 kilo of chicken into a thai green curry, boiled down beef shin bones for stock and started a loaf of sourdough which I will finish today and bake tomorrow for the weekend. lots of things that can all simmer away happily requiring little attention, but I can control the calories and sugar/additive levels.
Yesterday I was reading a few food diaries on MFP, hoping to get inspiration for low cal snacks and lunches and I was SHOCKED at how much rubbish and processed foods people are eating. One person ate a sausage at nearly 300 cals for breakfast. A SINGLE SAUSAGE. We were chatting via message and she said she was always hungry during the day at work and thats when she snacked.
I don't claim to have all the answers, I'm not a nutrition expert and I'm here because I need to loose weight too. BUT. Try taking 30 mins out to read your own diaries and see where you can cut out the high cal processed foods. Maybe add in a boiled egg as a snack, some roasted chicken or leftover beef steak with a salad. I understand that everyone has busy lives, not everyone has control over what they eat or don't have access to be able to cook themselves but every small step will help. Don't pick up a muesli bar instead of a banana - without reading the label and making an informed decision.
What's wrong with 300 calories for breakfast...that's like a light snack. I don't think I have any meal that comes in under 600 calories minimum...2 -
SwissHausfrau wrote: »The reason I have an open food diary for 'friends' is because I have got into food habits and often another set of eyes can point out something that might help. If someone points out something and makes me look at myself differently thats exactly what I asked them to do. isn't that the point as well as looking at someones diary and thinking 'thats a great meal for only 400 cal'?
I think people are different on this too.
I like Gretchen Rubin's 4 tendencies, as it helped me understand how some others approach MFP. In particular the idea that "obligers" do better when they focus on accountability to others. For me (and many others), that does nothing for me -- I need to feel accountable to myself and have goals that I have defined and worked out, and someone else complaining that what I do is inconsistent with their own goals (for example, some like to have very few calories for breakfast, whereas I like to use at least 25% of mine then) is not useful for me. When I was logging at MFP I typically had my diary open due to friendly comments on my feed and people saying they wanted to be able to get ideas, but if someone had thought how I ate was weird -- and it might have looked so, as I often just listed a bunch of ingredients that would have been used in several different dishes and plus I have some less usual tastes -- it would not have been helpful to tell me that. Nor did it really help me to have people saying things about my diary (usually positive, but hypothetically negative). I always found it weird when people suggested that the idea of having others looking at their diary critically was helpful to them and now I am understanding, but ask that you realize that not everyone finds that useful. I tend to be quite aware and self-critical when I am not eating well and I have really specific goals (I don't log here anyway, but many others are probably similar to me).As I said I am here to loose weight myself as although I am careful with choices I eat too much, so I didn't intend to come across as righteous or superior or for people to think that I was 'food shaming'. Clearly I could have worded my original post differently.
Yeah, definitely communication can be difficult. What I reacted badly to was commenting on someone else's food choice (which you have explained, but it seemed out of the blue) and assuming that the rest of us hadn't thought to read ingredients and so on. And assuming that if we did we'd make the same choices as you, or that's how I read you.
Generally speaking I think there's a big variety of people on MFP with different goals. It surprised me when I first ran into people saying they wouldn't eat vegetables (or didn't or didn't grow up doing so), for example, and now I notice more that there are very different ways people eat (not just nutritionally, but regionally, which can be interesting). I find (from discussion, not reading diaries, which I don't do) that many people have pretty strong and sensible ideas about nutrition, and that perhaps seems more dominant here than it is, but if someone really has so little idea that they don't even know to read labels and is struggling, I'd expect them to ask. I wouldn't assume that the community as a whole needs that advice.
But again this could be different ideas about communication -- to me giving that advice in the opening post in a thread you are starting suggests that you are under the belief that the rest of us really have no clue and that you are judging how you think we eat.6 -
musicfan68 wrote: »She's implying that people are ignorant and don't realize what they are eating - I don't think that is the case if you've been using MFP for any length of time. It's pretty clear when you look at your diary where calories are coming from and nutrients. You (general you) would have to not be looking at all at what you input to not see this.
I also took exception to this:
If you work during the week and spend one day at the weekend at home doing laundry, house accounts and paying bills, watching TV etc, have some pots on the cooker at the same time. Yesterday I ground 6 kilo of beef, froze 4 x 500g bags for later and pressed 8 burgers, made 2 kg of bolognese which I turned into 2 lasagnes and then portioned the rest to have with spaghetti. While that was cooking I made oxtail soup - enough for 4 days for 2 people. I also turned 1.5 kilo of chicken into a thai green curry, boiled down beef shin bones for stock and started a loaf of sourdough which I will finish today and bake tomorrow for the weekend. lots of things that can all simmer away happily requiring little attention, but I can control the calories and sugar/additive levels.
For myself, being disabled and working part time, I don't have time for that. I need to clean and do laundry and I'm wiped out after that. To then take several hours to prep food and package it is a lot of work for me, so I found it really presumptuous that she would suggest everyone can do that.
Beyond that, I could cook that way, but don't enjoy it. I like cooking a lot and pride myself in being able to whip up a great meal from what's in the refrigerator at any time (within 30-45 minutes -- maybe I should have a show, heh!), but am not into major batch cooking, and I am certainly not going to make a bunch of burgers in advance.
I do make bolognese sauce in advance sometimes, as it requires longer cooking, and same with pulled pork or such things, but of course I don't think I need OP to tell me how to cook.1 -
French_Peasant wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »SwissHausfrau I agree!
One thing I like about dieting is reading labels and being aware of what I am consuming.
Our bodies, gut, and mind will be happier with more natural ingredients and less preservatives and other chemicals.
Things like Doritos Cool Ranch (my weakness), ketchup, chocolate bars etc are yummy and a well deserved teat, but they do nothing for your body.
In a world where cancer and other diseases are causing so many problems I think it's important to keep the list of ingredients short and natural.
Tortilla chips, ketchup, and chocolate bars all have carbohydrates which my body can convert to energy. Ketchup and chocolate also supply antioxidants. I can also choose to purchase chocolate that is high in iron (one particular bar I buy gives me about 20% of my daily need in just one serving).
In appropriate portions, I have no issues including any of those foods in my diet and still maintaining my weight, meeting my nutritional needs, and feeling great.
Agree with Jane. Demonizing ketchup in particular always struck me as odd--it is 20 calories per tablespoon, and in addition to what Jane lists it provides 170 mg of potassium and some amount of vitamin A and C as well. It is basically tomato paste (NOTE: tomatoes are very good for you) with the tiniest touch of sugar added in addition to the considerable natural sugars in tomatoes, and enough salt that someone with high blood pressure should be careful not to eat the entire bottle. One's world will not fall apart if one has a squirt of ketchup. Moderation in all things.
I had to laugh at the sausage example. I only had to learn that lesson once, having consumed multiple breakfast links and looking up the calorie content afterwards. It does not stop me from eating all the sausage when my Polish sister in law comes to town, bringing us the glories purveyed by the finest European-oriented shops in Chicago. GET. IN. MY. BELLY.
I certainly would never regard the ultimate gift of a pig to be "rubbish", preferring to eat an animal snout to trotters, which includes eating sausage and cooking with bacon grease and lard, rather than just eating the lean unprocessed bits and literally rubbishing the rest of the animal.
Also, although I rarely consume sausage, when I do it lacks a nutrition label typically, so I guess this label reading wouldn't help me there!
(Good sausage at the Paulina Meat Market, which is quite near where I live, and I sometimes get premade sausage from a farm.)1 -
I appreciate your note. I work a lot of hours and my husband doesn't mind cooking but everything he cooks is high caloric and from a box, mix, or can. I have to eat clean due to strict doctors instructions for my health. It is hard but definitely worth it. I try to cut up all fruits/vegs from my low oxalate list on Sunday. I also try to cook some dishes too. It is just my husband and I. I have to eat low salt, low protein, low sugar, low protein. The only way to do that is to eat as many whole foods as you can.1
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cwolfman13 wrote: »
What's wrong with 300 calories for breakfast...that's like a light snack. I don't think I have any meal that comes in under 600 calories minimum...
I assumed the friend may have been sedentary, female, and on a 1200 calorie a day diet, or in that ballpark, where it is not the wisest choice to waste 1/4 of your calories on a sausage. Again, speaking from experience, but only having to learn that lesson once.
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SwissHausfrau wrote: »In the interests of clarity the person I was talking about has been a friend for over 15 years, she convinced me to re-start with MFP and when we were 'chatting' on messenger and I said 'what was with the sausage at breakfast' she laughed and said that was why she wanted me to read her diary. She is still a friend and loves me staying with her as I usually cook and fill her freezer.
The reason I have an open food diary for 'friends' is because I have got into food habits and often another set of eyes can point out something that might help. If someone points out something and makes me look at myself differently thats exactly what I asked them to do. isn't that the point as well as looking at someones diary and thinking 'thats a great meal for only 400 cal'?
As I said I am here to loose weight myself as although I am careful with choices I eat too much, so I didn't intend to come across as righteous or superior or for people to think that I was 'food shaming'. Clearly I could have worded my original post differently.
I don't claim to have the answers but making informed choices and reading ingredients before making a decision instead of afterwards when putting food into the diary can make a big difference. Looking at some food diaries really made me question if people do this.
The thing is, you are assuming that people who eat something you consider rubbish are uninformed. Maybe they made a conscious decision to eat it anyway. Maybe they have a different definition of rubbish. Maybe they aren't concerned about being healthy right now anyway and are just trying to get their weight down.
I always read labels and am constantly evaluating my diary. I do not believe that eating a moderate amount of processed foods is unhealthy, as long as I am getting proper macros and nutrition from a varied and balanced diet. I suspect you would be SHOCKED by some of the choices I make. Which is why my diary is only open to friends, because I don't want people I don't know judging my food choices. I'm thinking about having a Hot Pocket for lunch with some mixed veggies, I know exactly what's in the Hot Pocket, I don't find the ingredients listed on the box scary or unpronounceable, and it will fit quite well in my day. Bon appetit!4 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »SwissHausfrau wrote: »In the interests of clarity the person I was talking about has been a friend for over 15 years, she convinced me to re-start with MFP and when we were 'chatting' on messenger and I said 'what was with the sausage at breakfast' she laughed and said that was why she wanted me to read her diary. She is still a friend and loves me staying with her as I usually cook and fill her freezer.
The reason I have an open food diary for 'friends' is because I have got into food habits and often another set of eyes can point out something that might help. If someone points out something and makes me look at myself differently thats exactly what I asked them to do. isn't that the point as well as looking at someones diary and thinking 'thats a great meal for only 400 cal'?
As I said I am here to loose weight myself as although I am careful with choices I eat too much, so I didn't intend to come across as righteous or superior or for people to think that I was 'food shaming'. Clearly I could have worded my original post differently.
I don't claim to have the answers but making informed choices and reading ingredients before making a decision instead of afterwards when putting food into the diary can make a big difference. Looking at some food diaries really made me question if people do this.
I didn't think your post was righteous and certainly not 'shaming'. It's not as if you said "do this or you're wrong".
Except she's still judging people when it come to reading a list of ingredients.
In what way? I see her advocating for it.
No, I see that too. It's this part that gets me:I don't claim to have the answers but making informed choices and reading ingredients before making a decision instead of afterwards when putting food into the diary can make a big difference. Looking at some food diaries really made me question if people do this.
She still seems stuck on not knowing what the ingredients are or not being able to pronounce them. Maybe I'm reading it wrong tho.1 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »SwissHausfrau wrote: »In the interests of clarity the person I was talking about has been a friend for over 15 years, she convinced me to re-start with MFP and when we were 'chatting' on messenger and I said 'what was with the sausage at breakfast' she laughed and said that was why she wanted me to read her diary. She is still a friend and loves me staying with her as I usually cook and fill her freezer.
The reason I have an open food diary for 'friends' is because I have got into food habits and often another set of eyes can point out something that might help. If someone points out something and makes me look at myself differently thats exactly what I asked them to do. isn't that the point as well as looking at someones diary and thinking 'thats a great meal for only 400 cal'?
As I said I am here to loose weight myself as although I am careful with choices I eat too much, so I didn't intend to come across as righteous or superior or for people to think that I was 'food shaming'. Clearly I could have worded my original post differently.
I don't claim to have the answers but making informed choices and reading ingredients before making a decision instead of afterwards when putting food into the diary can make a big difference. Looking at some food diaries really made me question if people do this.
I didn't think your post was righteous and certainly not 'shaming'. It's not as if you said "do this or you're wrong".
Except she's still judging people when it come to reading a list of ingredients.
In what way? I see her advocating for it.
No, I see that too. It's this part that gets me:I don't claim to have the answers but making informed choices and reading ingredients before making a decision instead of afterwards when putting food into the diary can make a big difference. Looking at some food diaries really made me question if people do this.
She still seems stuck on not knowing what the ingredients are or not being able to pronounce them. Maybe I'm reading it wrong tho.
Not sure why that would be considered 'judging' but yes, she does suggest doing that. It's not uncommon.1 -
@SwissHausfrau
I don't know if you've checked out the groups on MFP, but there are clean eating groups where you might find support.1 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »@SwissHausfrau
I don't know if you've checked out the groups on MFP, but there are clean eating groups where you might find support.
I don't think anyone is being unsupportive of her clean eating. I read a lot of posters taking offense that she seems to assume anyone who isn't eating clean is either uninformed or not planning properly. There is a difference between choosing to eat whole foods and being shocked that others don't do the same and suggesting how they could try harder.
I agree though, for those interested in topics that don't always lead to the best conversations on the main boards, checking out the groups is a good idea.4 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »@SwissHausfrau
I don't know if you've checked out the groups on MFP, but there are clean eating groups where you might find support.
I don't think anyone is being unsupportive of her clean eating. I read a lot of posters taking offense that she seems to assume anyone who isn't eating clean is either uninformed or not planning properly. There is a difference between choosing to eat whole foods and being shocked that others don't do the same and suggesting how they could try harder.
I agree though, for those interested in topics that don't always lead to the best conversations on the main boards, checking out the groups is a good idea.
Thanks for sharing that.3 -
I don't see how reading the packets would even be an issue under the usual definition of clean eating (NO processed foods), and I didn't think OP was asking for support in her eating choices, but instead lecturing the rest of us in how we should eat (and specifically assuming that we do not know enough to read packages or understand what we are eating). It was that last assumption that rubbed me the wrong way.7
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lemurcat12 wrote: »I don't see how reading the packets would even be an issue under the usual definition of clean eating (NO processed foods), and I didn't think OP was asking for support in her eating choices, but instead lecturing the rest of us in how we should eat (and specifically assuming that we do not know enough to read packages or understand what we are eating). It was that last assumption that rubbed me the wrong way.
Okie doke3 -
Fair enough.0
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »@SwissHausfrau
I don't know if you've checked out the groups on MFP, but there are clean eating groups where you might find support.
I don't think anyone is being unsupportive of her clean eating. I read a lot of posters taking offense that she seems to assume anyone who isn't eating clean is either uninformed or not planning properly. There is a difference between choosing to eat whole foods and being shocked that others don't do the same and suggesting how they could try harder.
I agree though, for those interested in topics that don't always lead to the best conversations on the main boards, checking out the groups is a good idea.
Exactly this!0 -
I've been judged on the lack of veggies and fruit in my diary. Tis true, and i have no argument lol And apparently i eat/drink too much dairy...
Everyone knows it is best to eat a diet predominantly made up of whole fresh foods, and try to minimise fast/boxed/ultra processed foods. Some folks find this way of eating important for their health and well being, others see food as just food and don't really pay attention to what it is they are putting in their body.
Each to their own, my only concern is what myself and my family are eating. I don't stress over what people on the internet eat, their body and health is not my concern.
ETA: OP i admire the time, dedication and thought you put into your meals. Nobody can knock you for that
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