Confused about glycogen replenishment and training frequency.
robbyh501
Posts: 20 Member
Just been doing some internet research and discovered it can take as long as four days to replenish muscle glycogen stores after intense weight training. So OK, on the face of it, I've kind of answered my own question.
But what I'd like to know is, can/should a muscle be trained again when it is not yet fully glyco-replenished if size and muscle gains are the main goal?
Here is my reason for wanting to know. My arms have always been weak and small in size compared to the rest of my body. I have never had problem gaining size on legs, back and chest. But my arms suck. Done curls from all angles for years and even though they gave me some temporary pump size, I felt they never built any longer-term size.
However, all this changed when I started doing one-handed tyre flips starting mid December. Man alive!...Never have I felt such a pump in my arms and felt such soreness in my biceps and forearms. After doing 2 sessions within 3 days, my arms were almost an inch bigger and the muscle felt like concrete. I was absolutely thrilled and went back for a third session 2 days after this.
But on that third session, I felt weak and tired and noticed afterwards, much to my dismay, that my arms shrunk way down in size, back to where they were before, maybe smaller, and were still very sore (but not injured). They remained puny and sore right thru to Xmas and beyond. I was seriously pissed at this (obviously) and haven't been back training since, took all Xmas and New Year off and just ate, slept and had a lazy 2 weeks.
However, in the last 2 days, my arms have completely re-volumized, look jacked, feel hard and have definitely gained in size, with all the muscle soreness now gone. Yet, I haven't trained them now in nearly 2 weeks. I presume this is because glycogen stores have replenished (maybe even over-compensated) and cells become hydrated?
Ok, so if you have read to this point without me having bored you to tears, thanks! What I would REALLY like to know is.....Does it REALLY take all that time (10 days +, in my case) to recover, replenish (glycogen) and grow a muscle that had been really blitzed hard during a work out? Because with what has happened (in my particular case with the tire flips), I am seriously thinking that 10 days rest is the MINIMUM between training each body part for the aim of increasing size & volume. And that bicep curls and tricep presses are just a waste of time and can lead to over training of those body parts because arms receive more than enough stimuli from the big compound movements done in core upper-body training such as the tire-flips, presses, rows, deadlifts and squats even.
I'm not here to try to give advice, I am here to receive it and learn. My arm muscle grew straight after initially training them, then shrunk back to nothing before growing again over 10 days later (presumably when fully recovered). That seems like a long time to me....anyone else have any thoughts on this?
But what I'd like to know is, can/should a muscle be trained again when it is not yet fully glyco-replenished if size and muscle gains are the main goal?
Here is my reason for wanting to know. My arms have always been weak and small in size compared to the rest of my body. I have never had problem gaining size on legs, back and chest. But my arms suck. Done curls from all angles for years and even though they gave me some temporary pump size, I felt they never built any longer-term size.
However, all this changed when I started doing one-handed tyre flips starting mid December. Man alive!...Never have I felt such a pump in my arms and felt such soreness in my biceps and forearms. After doing 2 sessions within 3 days, my arms were almost an inch bigger and the muscle felt like concrete. I was absolutely thrilled and went back for a third session 2 days after this.
But on that third session, I felt weak and tired and noticed afterwards, much to my dismay, that my arms shrunk way down in size, back to where they were before, maybe smaller, and were still very sore (but not injured). They remained puny and sore right thru to Xmas and beyond. I was seriously pissed at this (obviously) and haven't been back training since, took all Xmas and New Year off and just ate, slept and had a lazy 2 weeks.
However, in the last 2 days, my arms have completely re-volumized, look jacked, feel hard and have definitely gained in size, with all the muscle soreness now gone. Yet, I haven't trained them now in nearly 2 weeks. I presume this is because glycogen stores have replenished (maybe even over-compensated) and cells become hydrated?
Ok, so if you have read to this point without me having bored you to tears, thanks! What I would REALLY like to know is.....Does it REALLY take all that time (10 days +, in my case) to recover, replenish (glycogen) and grow a muscle that had been really blitzed hard during a work out? Because with what has happened (in my particular case with the tire flips), I am seriously thinking that 10 days rest is the MINIMUM between training each body part for the aim of increasing size & volume. And that bicep curls and tricep presses are just a waste of time and can lead to over training of those body parts because arms receive more than enough stimuli from the big compound movements done in core upper-body training such as the tire-flips, presses, rows, deadlifts and squats even.
I'm not here to try to give advice, I am here to receive it and learn. My arm muscle grew straight after initially training them, then shrunk back to nothing before growing again over 10 days later (presumably when fully recovered). That seems like a long time to me....anyone else have any thoughts on this?
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Replies
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This all seems very complicated but in essence, don't train the same muscles without resting at least a day between, and don't train them more than 3 times per week. Two times may be enough.
Your body needs time to heal and recover and grow.
If you feel like crap take the day off from working out.
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The thing about arms is that you use them for almost every other body part workout. So if you bench press or do pull ups or deadlift you are using your arms. If you had a back day and a high carb (or high carb and fat for some)meal within the last two days it could be why you feel like your biceps are fuller now.0
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A body can hold upwards of 700g of glycogen a day while your are training. So unless you are training for several hours a day and/or eating very low carb, it's unlike to be that depleted. And honestly, there is very limited way to know if you are glycogen depleted or not. So the best thing you can do is eat adequate amounts of carbs.
Second, what you experienced is pump in your arms when you started with the tyre flips. They got swole from additional bloodflow and fluid to repair your muscles.
Third, what do our arms measure at? I suspect some of the issue might be perception.
Forth, does it take 10 days to replenish glycogen? No. Your body will replenish glycogen as soon as you consume carbs. If it took 10 days to recover, it's highly possible that you overtrained and strained your muscles. DOMS will occur over a 2 to 4 day time frame, but not much more.
ETA: Firth, if you struggled to put on size with your biceps, it's your workout programming and probably eating.2 -
I don't think it takes 10 days to replenish glycogen. Probably after flipping the tire those two days, you had a pump especially because it was something new. I think it may take 10 days or a little longer to fully recover and heal, but that's different then just replenishing glycogen. Powerlifters, Strongmen often take 7-10 days off from training before a meet to heal, recover and reach a higher level of strength. I think you were over trained. (not that I believe in over training) You need to eat and sleep for the level of training you are doing.0
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Just been doing some internet research and discovered it can take as long as four days to replenish muscle glycogen stores after intense weight training.
Perspective is that you have loads of glycogen in your body and burn very little during a strength workout.
I don't believe it takes days to replenish either. Any carbs you eat will be used for immediate bodily functions and glycogen replenishment.
Tour de France riders replenish their huge energy losses every day so they can go hard again tomorrow.3 -
Just been doing some internet research and discovered it can take as long as four days to replenish muscle glycogen stores after intense weight training.
Perspective is that you have loads of glycogen in your body and burn very little during a strength workout.
I don't believe it takes days to replenish either. Any carbs you eat will be used for immediate bodily functions and glycogen replenishment.
Tour de France riders replenish their huge energy losses every day so they can go hard again tomorrow.
If it truly took 10 days to replenish glycogen, they'd be completely eff'ed by day two. And they deplete a LOT more glycogen than any of us do in the gym.1 -
i'm nowhere near expert, but in case this is useful one thing stood out to me from your post: i think you may be missing the distinction between growth and recovery.
your body initiates the growth process in response to stimulus, and tries to complete it regardless of whether you're giving it the best tools to do so. it's steady, but comparatively slow. so it's not exactly like 'train, wait for body to grow, train again'.
idk if that makes sense. it's more like 'train, recover, train again' and in the meantime your body will just get on with doing its best to make sure you grow.
i tried to think up a metaphor and didn't get very far. but maybe it's a bit like the difference between getting/spending your paycheques in cycles, while meanwhile your interest rate is fixed and is going to continue happening in the background.
thought this might be helpful because i got an impression you were thinking your growth had happened and then somehow gone away again.0 -
Try looking for a product called ignition from 1stPhorm. It’s designed specifically to replenish glycogen. I have been using it for around 6 months now and I’m noticing a huge difference in recovery.5
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natester15 wrote: »Try looking for a product called ignition from 1stPhorm. It’s designed specifically to replenish glycogen. I have been using it for around 6 months now and I’m noticing a huge difference in recovery.
That is some expensive glucose. You can get the same result from fruit, candy or pretty much any carby food.4 -
Unless you're an elite-level athlete or lifter, I think this is a topic that is probably being over-thought. My thoughts on this are...
- Know your goals and train to that purpose.
- EAT! Consistently consume your protein, carbs and fats and it'll work itself out and it can be simple. I started toying with adding calories into my diet and I didn't want to spend much time thinking about it. I started buying bags of trail mix and added like 600 - 800 calories / day into my diet. I honestly could not tell you what % of each macro I'm getting. Lifts continued to grow and my bodyfat didn't change, oddly my pants size when down a whole size in the process while hitting some good PR's. I only train 3-days / week, sometimes I get some heavy bag work on my off-days.
- Get adequate rest and watch alcohol consumption
Don't over-think this stuff, it can detract from your training in the process.0
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