Fine line between keto and low-carb?
RecognitionT
Posts: 120 Member
Male, 5'7", ~76 kg (~167 lbs), muscular gym training 3x per week, jump rope for 20+ minutes each day.
So I've been on this keto-ish (trying for <30 g carbs each day) diet for the past two months (only been logging 1 month of it in MFP), and I've come to realize that this is totally unsustainable for me. I've done quite a bit of research and have got a pretty good idea what the purpose behind the whole keto diet is and what it's made to accomplish. Even got over my "keto-flu" 2 or something weeks ago, but carb cravings still get to me, especially in the morning as soon as I wake up. God forbid I wake up and can't have a coffee with some toast or some of my favorite little Italian breakfast cookies. The rest of the day I manage to find myself behaving, carbs aren't as needed then as in the morning.
A little background of mine as well, I've NEVER been one to believe that carbs make you fat. I always believed that the deficit is what mattered when it came to losing bodyfat. Unfortunately after doing tons of research on the diet and carbs' effect on the human body, I'm ready to face reality and accept that carbs in large quantities will cause large insulin spikes - therefore storing fat. Argue with that if you will, but I've flipped through enough scientific studies to believe what I believe.
However, I've been flipping through my food diaries and it seems that I manage to go well over the 30 g per day limit (I can barely have a couple of cups of coffee with milk in them before exhausting my carbs for the day >.<), so has anyone here had any experience with significantly lowering their carb intake without making it unsustainable? A lot of days I find myself averaging more around 60-80 g, which I suppose is still relatively low-carb... but I don't want minor differences like that to throw my progress way out of whack.
I've lost ~6 kg so far and I intend on losing perhaps another 3-4 kg more (I'll re-evaluate whether I want to maintain or lose a tiny bit more by the time I hit 71.6 kg, my ideal weight).
Tbh this thread is getting pretty long and I've pretty much what I was trying to ask in the first place, but basically, for those of you out there on low-carb-ish diets, do you still see significant body composition progress despite taking in over 30 g of carbs per day? Preferably I'd like responses from those that keep their carbs between 60 and 100 g per day, or if you just wanna throw in your two cents, go for it. I'd really like to get as well-sculpted as possible - getting as close to those Greek god physiques as humanely possible, so any form of visibly hanging fat is pretty much unacceptable for me. Perhaps 9-10% BF.
So I've been on this keto-ish (trying for <30 g carbs each day) diet for the past two months (only been logging 1 month of it in MFP), and I've come to realize that this is totally unsustainable for me. I've done quite a bit of research and have got a pretty good idea what the purpose behind the whole keto diet is and what it's made to accomplish. Even got over my "keto-flu" 2 or something weeks ago, but carb cravings still get to me, especially in the morning as soon as I wake up. God forbid I wake up and can't have a coffee with some toast or some of my favorite little Italian breakfast cookies. The rest of the day I manage to find myself behaving, carbs aren't as needed then as in the morning.
A little background of mine as well, I've NEVER been one to believe that carbs make you fat. I always believed that the deficit is what mattered when it came to losing bodyfat. Unfortunately after doing tons of research on the diet and carbs' effect on the human body, I'm ready to face reality and accept that carbs in large quantities will cause large insulin spikes - therefore storing fat. Argue with that if you will, but I've flipped through enough scientific studies to believe what I believe.
However, I've been flipping through my food diaries and it seems that I manage to go well over the 30 g per day limit (I can barely have a couple of cups of coffee with milk in them before exhausting my carbs for the day >.<), so has anyone here had any experience with significantly lowering their carb intake without making it unsustainable? A lot of days I find myself averaging more around 60-80 g, which I suppose is still relatively low-carb... but I don't want minor differences like that to throw my progress way out of whack.
I've lost ~6 kg so far and I intend on losing perhaps another 3-4 kg more (I'll re-evaluate whether I want to maintain or lose a tiny bit more by the time I hit 71.6 kg, my ideal weight).
Tbh this thread is getting pretty long and I've pretty much what I was trying to ask in the first place, but basically, for those of you out there on low-carb-ish diets, do you still see significant body composition progress despite taking in over 30 g of carbs per day? Preferably I'd like responses from those that keep their carbs between 60 and 100 g per day, or if you just wanna throw in your two cents, go for it. I'd really like to get as well-sculpted as possible - getting as close to those Greek god physiques as humanely possible, so any form of visibly hanging fat is pretty much unacceptable for me. Perhaps 9-10% BF.
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Replies
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Protein and exercise also causes insulin spikes. Insulin isn't the devil, it's highly anabolic (aka helps build muscles). I have seen significant composition progress without restricting carbs to low levels. I have only every used carb restriction during bodybuilding competition prep to be able to eat an entire box of cereal every other week. Carbs are not going to keep you from getting lean unless you have a medical condition or they cause you to overeat.15
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Nothing wrong with carbs the body needs them for energy and your brain functions almost exclusively on glucose. If 60-80g is working for you and you are seeing results and you can sustain it then stick with it. Plus coffee and Italian cookies are awesome and life is too short to not enjoy some good things in life.15
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keto is not for everyone. I chose to use it to beat T2 diabetes (which I have done), lower cholesterol, and lose significant weight. As far as trying to make it sustainable, many have said that cravings are driven by a lack of electrolytes such as sodium, magnesium, and even potassium to a smaller degree. Also, when closer to goal weight, it is more of a challenge to eat this way. I even plan to up my carbs once I get to goal weight for maintenance.
The bottom line is you can reach your goals in many ways, using carbs, not using carbs, cycling carbs, counting calories, etc. Find one that fits you, then go for it! Good luck!
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low carb and ketogenic are different ways of eating. ketogenic, you want at least 65% of your calories from fat. google for the ratios. both lc and keto will put you into ketosis if you do lc correctly.
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Have you tried this calculator? https://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/ You can then set the ratios in MFP: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/account/my_goals. MFP doesn't seem to calculate NET carbs.0
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Simply put, if you find keeping carbs at 20 grams unstatainable then keto is not the diet plan for you as you will throw in the towel rather than maintain this way of eating for the rest of your life.
I lost plenty of weight by eating 150 + grams of carbs a day and have no problems maintaining eating 200+ a day now. Many can lose weight and maintain long term eating 40+% of their food intake with carbs.1 -
So I am new to keto like a week new. I have gotten my carbs down to about 18 a day. I am type 2 diabetic and over weight. I worked out my macros with a nurse friend. I am eating three times a day, no snacking, not tired, full and feeling good. It is not for everyone and I have always cheated with others things but not this. I'm eating veggies (no root or underground ones) steak, chicken, shrimp, omelet, coffee with heavy cream (tossed out the creamer) using stevia raw and taking normal vitamins and increasing my water intake. My blood sugars have dropped over 50 points. There is more information that I can send if anyone is interested. Best wishes4
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Tbh this thread is getting pretty long and I've pretty much what I was trying to ask in the first place, but basically, for those of you out there on low-carb-ish diets, do you still see significant body composition progress despite taking in over 30 g of carbs per day? Preferably I'd like responses from those that keep their carbs between 60 and 100 g per day, or if you just wanna throw in your two cents, go for it. I'd really like to get as well-sculpted as possible - getting as close to those Greek god physiques as humanely possible, so any form of visibly hanging fat is pretty much unacceptable for me. Perhaps 9-10% BF.
OP, I think you could do a low card diet without it being Keto. The Keto diet wants you to keep your carb intake under 20 grams which in my opinion is tough to do. Now unless you have a medical reason, I don't think Keto is necessary. But I'm a beleiver that low carb diets do work and will help you reach your goals a lot quicker than just doing CICO. Some may disagree with me, and that's fine. But for me, I find that when I cut calories and limit my carb intake, I lose weight. I started a Low Carb / Hight Fat / Moderate Protein diet (inspired by keto, but not fully keto) My carb intake falls between 45g - 80g, depending on the day. But I try not to exceed 80, and so far, I've lost 6lbs! People will say "oh it just water weight". Which probably is true for the first two weeks, but after that, seeing the scale continue to go down or losing inches around your waist, makes it worth it. I say, still enjoy your carbs in the morning, but keep your carb intake within a certain limit and you'll get to where you need to be. I'm not a nutrionist-- I'm learning like you. Just offering my opinion
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I average between 75-100g of carbs per day. I don't pay very close attention to that number. The only reason I know is because my husband insisted that I was doing keto and I was trying to prove that i am just low carb. I've been able to lose 56 pounds this way and find it very sustainable. I notice a difference in bloating and how I feel over all if I go above 100g of carbs.2
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I could never do keto...I could maybe do low carb...generally speaking in a cut my carbs are around 130 - 150 and I cut weight just fine. I consider anything below 130 to be low carb.1
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You can't build muscle without insulin.5
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I’m still fairly new to keto. I know body builders need to approach it differently. I switched from milk to half n half in my coffee - less carbs I think. And I made easy delicious almond shortbread cookies with almond flour that might sub for your Italian cookies.
I read up on this site when starting - might have more info
https://www.ruled.me/guide-keto-diet/3 -
I try to stay keto. Under 25 net grams of carbs. But some days if i go out to eat or its a holiday, i stay under 150 net grams. (Which is considered low carb still.) For my coffee, i use heavy whipping cream because it has zero carbs and has alot of fat to keep me full, i use vanilla extract, and splenda. Then i drink an atkins protein shake with my meds for protein. For lunches im supposed to have some kind of meat and low carb veggie, but if im in a rush i grab an atkins meal bar. For dinner im supposed to have another shake but im usually not hungry. And if i am i will eat some bacon and eggs for protein and fat. All the protein and fat keeps me full and makes me eat smaller portions. And not eating very many carbs, i rarely have cravings anymore. When i do, i dont deprive myself though. I just use self discipline and will power to use portion comtrol.. Also someone mentioned that your brain needs carbs to function, but once your body starts burning fat because of the very low glycogen stores now in your system, your brain will be using fat to function. Also keep doing what youre doing with exercise!! More muscle means higher metabolism! hope i helped! 3
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I've been doing a low carb diet, but some days I get loopy and tired. I think I'm around 50 grams of carbs daily. I don't really crave anything, and my bmi has drastically reduced. I've been on for about 10 weeks and I'm down 22lbs. However, my physique is not even close to yours, nor do I workout at your intensity. I think you're going to have to experiment with foods. It doesn't matter how you look if you're hungry and feeling yucky all of the time. Good luck!
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RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »You can't build muscle without insulin.
Without enough insulin, you are or like a type 1 diabetic with a serious disease.
Even a body not being able to use insulin it has (such as with insulin resistance) is a serious health issue.
Our bodies need insulin to survive. Type 1 diabetics have to take injections of insulin for that reason.
I don't understand why some fad diets have vilified "insulin".4 -
RecognitionT wrote: »Male, 5'7", ~76 kg (~167 lbs), muscular gym training 3x per week, jump rope for 20+ minutes each day.
So I've been on this keto-ish (trying for <30 g carbs each day) diet for the past two months (only been logging 1 month of it in MFP), and I've come to realize that this is totally unsustainable for me. I've done quite a bit of research and have got a pretty good idea what the purpose behind the whole keto diet is and what it's made to accomplish. Even got over my "keto-flu" 2 or something weeks ago, but carb cravings still get to me, especially in the morning as soon as I wake up. God forbid I wake up and can't have a coffee with some toast or some of my favorite little Italian breakfast cookies. The rest of the day I manage to find myself behaving, carbs aren't as needed then as in the morning.
A little background of mine as well, I've NEVER been one to believe that carbs make you fat. I always believed that the deficit is what mattered when it came to losing bodyfat. Unfortunately after doing tons of research on the diet and carbs' effect on the human body, I'm ready to face reality and accept that carbs in large quantities will cause large insulin spikes - therefore storing fat. Argue with that if you will, but I've flipped through enough scientific studies to believe what I believe.
However, I've been flipping through my food diaries and it seems that I manage to go well over the 30 g per day limit (I can barely have a couple of cups of coffee with milk in them before exhausting my carbs for the day >.<), so has anyone here had any experience with significantly lowering their carb intake without making it unsustainable? A lot of days I find myself averaging more around 60-80 g, which I suppose is still relatively low-carb... but I don't want minor differences like that to throw my progress way out of whack.
I've lost ~6 kg so far and I intend on losing perhaps another 3-4 kg more (I'll re-evaluate whether I want to maintain or lose a tiny bit more by the time I hit 71.6 kg, my ideal weight).
Tbh this thread is getting pretty long and I've pretty much what I was trying to ask in the first place, but basically, for those of you out there on low-carb-ish diets, do you still see significant body composition progress despite taking in over 30 g of carbs per day? Preferably I'd like responses from those that keep their carbs between 60 and 100 g per day, or if you just wanna throw in your two cents, go for it. I'd really like to get as well-sculpted as possible - getting as close to those Greek god physiques as humanely possible, so any form of visibly hanging fat is pretty much unacceptable for me. Perhaps 9-10% BF.
If you're lifting, I have no idea why you need to stick with a low carb or no carb diet unless you really have a lack of discipline when it comes to eating carbs. People who do physical activities thrive on carbs and are able to push more or else you would have a ton of keto athletes which is not the case (not saying there aren't any keto athletes, but 99% have a high carb diet) . Early studies of keto show that it has been the worse diet when it comes to building muscles along with training fasted. Not saying you can't build muscles on keto, I am saying it's not the most optimal. Of course, it's not yet conclusive since the research is in the early stages, but it isn't looking good for keto in that area and I am not surprised. I mean you can't push more if you're lacking water and glycogen in your system vs if you did have water and glycogen in your system for the same amount of calories you eat.
PS Having a greek body doesn't require keto, it requires years of building muscles and then being lean enough to show all your hard work during your muscle building phase.3 -
RecognitionT wrote: »Male, 5'7", ~76 kg (~167 lbs), muscular gym training 3x per week, jump rope for 20+ minutes each day.
So I've been on this keto-ish (trying for <30 g carbs each day) diet for the past two months (only been logging 1 month of it in MFP), and I've come to realize that this is totally unsustainable for me. I've done quite a bit of research and have got a pretty good idea what the purpose behind the whole keto diet is and what it's made to accomplish. Even got over my "keto-flu" 2 or something weeks ago, but carb cravings still get to me, especially in the morning as soon as I wake up. God forbid I wake up and can't have a coffee with some toast or some of my favorite little Italian breakfast cookies. The rest of the day I manage to find myself behaving, carbs aren't as needed then as in the morning.
A little background of mine as well, I've NEVER been one to believe that carbs make you fat. I always believed that the deficit is what mattered when it came to losing bodyfat. Unfortunately after doing tons of research on the diet and carbs' effect on the human body, I'm ready to face reality and accept that carbs in large quantities will cause large insulin spikes - therefore storing fat. Argue with that if you will, but I've flipped through enough scientific studies to believe what I believe.
However, I've been flipping through my food diaries and it seems that I manage to go well over the 30 g per day limit (I can barely have a couple of cups of coffee with milk in them before exhausting my carbs for the day >.<), so has anyone here had any experience with significantly lowering their carb intake without making it unsustainable? A lot of days I find myself averaging more around 60-80 g, which I suppose is still relatively low-carb... but I don't want minor differences like that to throw my progress way out of whack.
I've lost ~6 kg so far and I intend on losing perhaps another 3-4 kg more (I'll re-evaluate whether I want to maintain or lose a tiny bit more by the time I hit 71.6 kg, my ideal weight).
Tbh this thread is getting pretty long and I've pretty much what I was trying to ask in the first place, but basically, for those of you out there on low-carb-ish diets, do you still see significant body composition progress despite taking in over 30 g of carbs per day? Preferably I'd like responses from those that keep their carbs between 60 and 100 g per day, or if you just wanna throw in your two cents, go for it. I'd really like to get as well-sculpted as possible - getting as close to those Greek god physiques as humanely possible, so any form of visibly hanging fat is pretty much unacceptable for me. Perhaps 9-10% BF.
If you look at De Novo Lipogenesis studies, you would know that carbs rarely convert to fat. What is does is suppress fat oxidation, which drives fat to store as fat. Even so, there are multiple mechanism that your body has to store nutrients. Fat suppresses hormone sensitive lipase (HSL - the fat burning enzyme) via hormones like Glucose-dependent Insulintropic Peptide and Ascylation Stimulating Protein (ASP). Essentially, evolution ensures that you can store fat based on energy balance.
Ultimately, it's going to depend on what your goals are. If you just want to lean out, you can certainly do that with low carb, keto or vegan. With low carb/keto, you need to worry about electrolytes a bit more (which is why you had keto flu from an imbalance of them) and ensure you are still getting adequate protein. There are studies that suggest that one can maintain muscles on lc/keto diets. There is some evidence to support that carb based diets are better for composition and muscle gains. It's why bulking with keto sucks and many end up doing CKD/TKD style diets to make it not suck as much.
There is also some issue with being/staying super lean. Some people's bodies just don't like it and tend to be more resistant. Some have major hormonal issues, others do not. So you will have to see how it goes.3
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