Vegetarian Questions

alondrakayy · January 2018

I want to ask questions to those who have similar fitness goals that I have. The vegetarians I know don't.

Fitness goals: gain muscle mass through bodyweight and strength training + diet

1) Do I really need 0.8-1g of protein per pound of bodyweight to gain muscle mass? If not, what is recommended?
2) Do you have to drink protein shakes/drinks? I hate them so much.
3) Are meat substitutes necessary? Or is it more of a taking care of meat craving thing?

brendanwhite84 · January 2018

I have done what you're looking to do - I've put on 20+ lbs of muscle and plan to build more, while eating as a vegetarian and lifting heavy weights.

1. I would recommend that much protein - it's worked for me and I have a nutritional study from a major university (in which I was a participant) that confirms that ~1g per lb is ideal for strength athletes.
2. No you don't; I do take a whey protein isolate shake most days but I also get a substantial amount of protein from skyr, cottage cheese and egg whites.
3. I haven't eaten meat substitutes in a very long time. I do supplement with creatine and iron to help reproduce some of the effects of eating meat, however.

Hope this helps.

AnnPT77 · January 2018

My opinions (43 years vegetarian, 17 years very active/athlete):

1. Yes, approximately - I'm more sold on 0.6-0.8g/lb, myself. Note that that's per pound of healthy goal weight, not per pound of overweight weight. We don't need extra protein to maintain fat weight. Adequate protein is especially important for veg people, since more of our protein sources may be incomplete (in terms of essential amino acids).
2. No. I never drink them.
3. No. I personally think most of them are yucky. I occasionally eat a black bean burger or something at a restaurant, but that's about it.

There's nothing wrong with protein drinks or fake meats, IMO, for someone who enjoys them. I don't enjoy them.

I'm smallish, 5'5", goal 120, a little abive that now but mostly in maintenance after losing 50+ pounds. Now, I make it a point to get an absolute minimum of 100g protein daily. It was a bit less on a lower calorie goal, but not below 0.6g/goal-lbs = 72g.

I am ovo-lacto veg, so I rely a lot on dairy, though I try.to mix it up. (I only occasionally eat eggs). I think I could hit the goals without milk/eggs, but it would involve more soy than currently.

brendanwhite84 · January 2018

AnnPT77 wrote: »

1. Yes, approximately - I'm more sold on 0.6-0.8g/lb, myself. Note that that's per pound of healthy goal weight, not per pound of overweight weight. We don't need extra protein to maintain fat weight. Adequate protein is especially important for veg people, since more of our protein sources may be incomplete (in terms of essential amino acids).

I should mention that our study was only of male athletes - which had to do more with difficulty in finding willing female subjects rather than a conscious choice not to include them.

Re. amino acid completeness: if I'm not mistaken dairy and eggs provide a complete amino profile? I think it's only vegans who have to specifically target this (as long as us non-vegans eat a decent amount of the preceding foods)?

AnnPT77 · January 2018

brendanwhite84 wrote: »

AnnPT77 wrote: »

1. Yes, approximately - I'm more sold on 0.6-0.8g/lb, myself. Note that that's per pound of healthy goal weight, not per pound of overweight weight. We don't need extra protein to maintain fat weight. Adequate protein is especially important for veg people, since more of our protein sources may be incomplete (in terms of essential amino acids).

I should mention that our study was only of male athletes - which had to do more with difficulty in finding willing female subjects rather than a conscious choice not to include them.

Re. amino acid completeness: if I'm not mistaken dairy and eggs provide a complete amino profile? I think it's only vegans who have to specifically target this (as long as us non-vegans eat a decent amount of the preceding foods)?

Yes, eggs and dairy are complete, along with a few plant sources (like soy, quinoa, etc.). But many/most veggies tend to round out their day with things that are incomplete (e.g., most beans), varying sources to balance out smino acids. IMO, it's easier to vary & get extra grams vs. micro-manage protein complements.

And I should've clarified: I have strength & (mostly) performance goals, but not explicit hypertrophy goals (not against it, just not targeting it). I'm sure that affects my reading of research. I often get 120g, but not always (pretty sure it'd be achievable). OP, apologies for that omission.

@brendanwhite84: Just for clarity, did the study you participated in say 1g/lb bodyweight was optimal, or 1g/lb LBM?

brendanwhite84 · January 2018

AnnPT77 wrote: »

@brendanwhite84: Just for clarity, did the study you participated in say 1g/lb bodyweight was optimal, or 1g/lb LBM?

Good question; I reviewed the paper and it's only by bodyweight, not explicitly by LBM. That said, the LBM of the study groups was pretty high:

Strength athletes - 13.0 ±6.3 % body fat
Endurance athletes - 9.8 ±5.0 % body fat

alondrakayy · January 2018

Should I add BCAA supplements back into my diet?

I weight 142 pounds and have been hitting around 50-60g of protein per day since trying to ease into a vegetarian diet. I thought it was enough but I guess not! (good thing I asked).

brendanwhite84 · January 2018

There was some recent science suggesting BCAA supplementation doesn't accomplish much. That said, I wouldn't mind reviewing the study to see who the subjects were - who knows, maybe vegetarians might benefit.

I do use BCAAs but only while weight training fasted (I do 16/8 intermittent fasting) and with full knowledge that it might be a bit of a placebo. I have a modest amount of extra disposable income and don't mind burning a bit on an item like that if I can get it cheap.

AnnPT77 · January 2018

Personally, speaking as someone who's been alive/adult for a time when a lot of nutritional research progress has occurred, (I'm 62) I advocate getting as much as practical of one's core nutrition from food, preferably foods humans have been eating for centuries or millennia, and not relying overmuch on supplements.

Why?

Nutrition science keeps discovering new essential nutrients, beneficial phytochemicals, required nutrients that are beneficial in a context of other nutrients but useless or harmful on their own, etc.

Typically, it turns out that those "new" nutrients/phytochemicals and beneficial combinations were already in the foods our ancestors have long thrived while eating.

Evolution tested strategy! I follow the research, but more to make sure I'm getting the right variety of foods.

Supplements mostly won't hurt you and can help, but I think foods are a better bet, especially for the core foundations of one's nutrition.

But I'm just a cranky, eccentric li'l ol' lady.

raspuller · January 2018

I consider myself whole-foods-plant-based or WFPB (as opposed to vegan which often carries an ethical implication). Based on my research and personal experience, I don’t think we need nearly as much protein as people think to make gains. I regularly hover around 50-60g a day, I work out (including lift) several times a week. Have no issues with energy and my labs are always fine. At one time, I had a trainer try to tell me I needed over a 100g of protein if i wanted to see progress. Phhhtpt.

I’m not big on the meat replacements. I’m not big on soy in general (no tofu for me thanks very much!) Once in a while I enjoy a Beyond Burger (pea protein) but that’s more like 2x a year. On the rare occasion that I feel like I may be low for protein for the day or just want a little boost, I do use a vegan protein powder. I mix it in a banana chocolate espresso smoothie and don’t even know it’s there. It’s like a really decadent shake.

Vegetarian Questions

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