Is it the exercise that makes me that hungry?
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oat_bran
Posts: 370 Member
Im a 29y/o female, 23 BMI. My main goal at the moment is to lose more weight and bf%. Even though I'm within normal weight range, the way my body distributes fat makes my lower body looks overweight. I know one can't spot reduce, so I'm looking into losing another 10-15 pounds or so.
My exercise routine for the last few months has been like this: I've been going to 1hr runs about 4 times a week (I follow an app program which tells me to alternate between running, sprinting and brisk walking). 2 times a week I have access to gym, so I do a short 25-30 min warm up on a treadmill, then follow a 1hr routine on the selection of machines that we have there (not huge) try to target my lower body especially, but not exclusively. I might be able to add a 3d gym workout a week soon, but not more.
On top of that I have a relatively active lightstyle and try to walk and move more in general whenever I can. All in all I have some form of exercise practically everyday. According to my fitbit my average daily burn at the moment is 2200-2300 and even as nmuch as 2500-2700 some days (judging by my losses it seems accurate). So even with my goal deficit of 500cals I get to eat a lot. However, I still feel hungry quite a lot (I tried all the usual more-fat-more-protein-more-fiber-more-water so don't bother advising that) and it's the kind of I'm-undereating-I-need-to-eat-more-calories hunger, I think. Lowering the deficit helps temporally but eventually I still develop this deep-seated nagging hunger.
I was wondering if it's the exercise that might be causing that? I exercise for several reasons (stress release, general fitness etc.) but weight loss is the most important one. Very often I tell myself I need to go for a run because I already ate all or most of my calories for the day and won't have anything left for supper if I don't burn more. I know a lot of people here don't believe that exercise should be used for weight loss at all, but sometimes it's I feel like it's the only way for me to have a calorie deficit. But then other times I wonder if it's the exercise that's making me that hungry in the first place and that if I exercised less I would eventually have to eat less because of decreased hunger?
I know the only way to be sure is to actually try to decrease exercise but the idea is making me nervous. I'd have to considerably decrease the exercise for at least two weeks if not longer to see a clear correlation and I'm afraid I'd eat over my TDEEs for many days or lose my progress. With my runs I can feel it quickly: even 2 or 3 skipped workouts and it's getting quite hard to keep up.
Do you think I exercise a normal amount for someone who's primary goal is weight loss/fat loss? What I your experiences? Do you think I should lower the amount of exercise
My exercise routine for the last few months has been like this: I've been going to 1hr runs about 4 times a week (I follow an app program which tells me to alternate between running, sprinting and brisk walking). 2 times a week I have access to gym, so I do a short 25-30 min warm up on a treadmill, then follow a 1hr routine on the selection of machines that we have there (not huge) try to target my lower body especially, but not exclusively. I might be able to add a 3d gym workout a week soon, but not more.
On top of that I have a relatively active lightstyle and try to walk and move more in general whenever I can. All in all I have some form of exercise practically everyday. According to my fitbit my average daily burn at the moment is 2200-2300 and even as nmuch as 2500-2700 some days (judging by my losses it seems accurate). So even with my goal deficit of 500cals I get to eat a lot. However, I still feel hungry quite a lot (I tried all the usual more-fat-more-protein-more-fiber-more-water so don't bother advising that) and it's the kind of I'm-undereating-I-need-to-eat-more-calories hunger, I think. Lowering the deficit helps temporally but eventually I still develop this deep-seated nagging hunger.
I was wondering if it's the exercise that might be causing that? I exercise for several reasons (stress release, general fitness etc.) but weight loss is the most important one. Very often I tell myself I need to go for a run because I already ate all or most of my calories for the day and won't have anything left for supper if I don't burn more. I know a lot of people here don't believe that exercise should be used for weight loss at all, but sometimes it's I feel like it's the only way for me to have a calorie deficit. But then other times I wonder if it's the exercise that's making me that hungry in the first place and that if I exercised less I would eventually have to eat less because of decreased hunger?
I know the only way to be sure is to actually try to decrease exercise but the idea is making me nervous. I'd have to considerably decrease the exercise for at least two weeks if not longer to see a clear correlation and I'm afraid I'd eat over my TDEEs for many days or lose my progress. With my runs I can feel it quickly: even 2 or 3 skipped workouts and it's getting quite hard to keep up.
Do you think I exercise a normal amount for someone who's primary goal is weight loss/fat loss? What I your experiences? Do you think I should lower the amount of exercise
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Replies
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You may be doing too much cardio, sometimes more is less. I would suggest keep running for 30 mins and increase your gym time to 30mins instead of running. Usually when you feel hunger is that you are probably not eating enough. Possibly try increasing your carbs and fats. What is your current height and weight1
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iheartmakeup01 wrote: »You may be doing too much cardio, sometimes more is less. I would suggest keep running for 30 mins and increase your gym time to 30mins instead of running. Usually when you feel hunger is that you are probably not eating enough. Possibly try increasing your carbs and fats. What is your current height and weight
5'2'', 128lbs.
I find that when I eat between 25 and 30% protein I feel a bit less hungry. At least I feel satiated right after meals. When I try to "refeed" and add more carbs I only seem to get more ravenous and can't seem to feel full...0 -
iheartmakeup01 wrote: »You may be doing too much cardio, sometimes more is less.
What's your logic for that?
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My exercise routine for the last few months has been like this: I've been going to 1hr runs about 4 times a week (I follow an app program which tells me to alternate between running, sprinting and brisk walking). 2 times a week I have access to gym, so I do a short 25-30 min warm up on a treadmill, then follow a 1hr routine on the selection of machines that we have there (not huge) try to target my lower body especially, but not exclusively. I might be able to add a 3d gym workout a week soon, but not more.
Not directly answering our question, I appreciate, but you may want to increase your resistance training a bit, and use a structured programme. Your warm up's are perhaps a little longer than they need to be, 10 to 15 minutes is plenty.
You aren't doing an excessive amount of running, assuming you're covering about 6 miles in those hour long sessions that's giving you between 1500 and 2000 calories of energy consumption per week. It's unlikely to be that causing the hunger.
Noting that you've got limited access to the gym, you might find a bodyweight programme useful. I like You Are Your Own Gym, but there are others around. Equally investing in a TRX might be helpful. Personally I combine that with running, by running out to the woods, setting up my trainer and doing a session before running home.
The observation I'd make is that a 500 cal deficit might be a bit too deep, and by reducing that you'll find the impact lessened.2 -
Personally I'm less hungry overall when I have the same net calorie deficit but eating more food but doing more exercise - food volume has a positive impact on satiety for me that outweighs the increased eating needs of exercise.
I do find different kinds of exercise has greater or smaller hunger impact out of proportion to the actual calorie burn.
Strength training (say calorie range 200 - 300 cals) makes me want more food than I've burned.
Longer duration low to moderate cardio (say calorie range 550 - 1200 cals, one to two hours) results in low hunger signals so a much higher burn compared to how much more I want to eat. A big deficit that day is no problem.
A calorie burn (say 600 / hr) from brisk steady state cardio or exactly same calorie burn from interval training with a mix of high/low intensity creates markedly different hunger. Because interval training simply feels taxing seems to lead to more hunger.
Would a regular day (or more) at maintenance help adherence? Higher weekend allowance/lower weekday allowance perhaps?
I can sustain a deficit far easier and with far less impact on exercise performance and hunger with a very irregular (net) deficit rather than an everyday deficit. Mentally/emotionally I find sustaining a deficit and dealing with hunger today far, far easier if I know tomorrow I get to eat at maintenance. YMMV.
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MeanderingMammal wrote: »My exercise routine for the last few months has been like this: I've been going to 1hr runs about 4 times a week (I follow an app program which tells me to alternate between running, sprinting and brisk walking). 2 times a week I have access to gym, so I do a short 25-30 min warm up on a treadmill, then follow a 1hr routine on the selection of machines that we have there (not huge) try to target my lower body especially, but not exclusively. I might be able to add a 3d gym workout a week soon, but not more.
Not directly answering our question, I appreciate, but you may want to increase your resistance training a bit, and use a structured programme. Your warm up's are perhaps a little longer than they need to be, 10 to 15 minutes is plenty.
You aren't doing an excessive amount of running, assuming you're covering about 6 miles in those hour long sessions that's giving you between 1500 and 2000 calories of energy consumption per week. It's unlikely to be that causing the hunger.
Noting that you've got limited access to the gym, you might find a bodyweight programme useful. I like You Are Your Own Gym, but there are others around. Equally investing in a TRX might be helpful. Personally I combine that with running, by running out to the woods, setting up my trainer and doing a session before running home.
The observation I'd make is that a 500 cal deficit might be a bit too deep, and by reducing that you'll find the impact lessened.
Thanks for the advice. I'm currently trying to find the right structured strength training program for me. I definitely need one. I'm a novice to weight gym machines and weights in general so I find myself mostly just using the few machines I know well and that's it (the selection of machines at our campus gym is not huge to begin with).
I'm also currently experimenting with the right deficit for me. Like I said, I haven't noticed that lowering deficit necessarily decreases hunger in the long term. The hunger just takes longer to set it with the lower deficit (the correlation seems to be directly proportional). But I guess I need to find the right balance between the deficit, exercise and intake.1 -
Personally I'm less hungry overall when I have the same net calorie deficit but eating more food but doing more exercise - food volume has a positive impact on satiety for me that outweighs the increased eating needs of exercise.
I do find different kinds of exercise has greater or smaller hunger impact out of proportion to the actual calorie burn.
Strength training (say calorie range 200 - 300 cals) makes me want more food than I've burned.
Longer duration low to moderate cardio (say calorie range 550 - 1200 cals, one to two hours) results in low hunger signals so a much higher burn compared to how much more I want to eat. A big deficit that day is no problem.
A calorie burn (say 600 / hr) from brisk steady state cardio or exactly same calorie burn from interval training with a mix of high/low intensity creates markedly different hunger. Because interval training simply feels taxing seems to lead to more hunger.
Would a regular day (or more) at maintenance help adherence? Higher weekend allowance/lower weekday allowance perhaps?
I can sustain a deficit far easier and with far less impact on exercise performance and hunger with a very irregular (net) deficit rather than an everyday deficit. Mentally/emotionally I find sustaining a deficit and dealing with hunger today far, far easier if I know tomorrow I get to eat at maintenance. YMMV.
550 to 1200 calories of cardio in one or two hours? I don't think we have the same notion of what 'low to moderate cardio' is.
OP, when did you start running? I ran into the same issue as you when I reached 135lbs (I'm 5'5"). I started doing more intense cardio (running, elliptical) and my appetite shot up like crazy. I just haven't been able to go back to a deficit since that, but that's me (even if I slow down the cardio, which I did... still hungry).
For you, I'd decrease your deficit to 250 and see from there.2 -
@Francl27
"550 to 1200 calories of cardio in one or two hours? I don't think we have the same notion of what 'low to moderate cardio' is."
True - personal capabilities are very varied, more than people realise.
I'm a regular and long distance cyclist so my idea of sustainable burns and duration is a bit abnormal......
I'm still a long way below a talented/gifted athlete though.
I probably should have said low to moderate intensity for me.
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I noticed that you specifically avoided saying carbs, are you trying to be low carb? Athletes aren't low carb for a reason, your muscles need and get their energy mainly from carbs. If you plan on working out that strenuously you cant be on a low carb diet and not expect to be exhausted.
If you didnt mention it because you just forgot and aren't doing low carb, then I would suggest trying to find a way to have a carb snack before your exercises to see if it helps with the hunger from the work outs.1 -
It's interesting to me that you say reducing the deficit doesn't really help, that hunger correlates. My thought was reduce the deficit to 250 cal a day as Francl27 suggested. But I've experienced something similar at times where my hunger correlated better to my actual weight loss rather than to rate of weight loss (within reason). Did you happen to follow any of the refeed thread discussion?
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10604863/of-refeeds-and-diet-breaks
In the video, if I remember correctly, Lyle talks about how losing weight very slowly may or may not eliminate the need for refeeds. The point of course is to reset your hunger hormones so that you can continue losing weight without feeling so hungry.
I don't know anymore whether he said it or it's just my own thinking but it may be difficult for people who like to push to stick to a tiny deficit. Personally, long before this thread came out, I found it suited me best to lose a few pounds quickly, gain some (or even all) back and then lose again, hitting new lows as I went. That's not a perfect match to his refeed strategy but it worked for me.1 -
Personally I'm less hungry overall when I have the same net calorie deficit but eating more food but doing more exercise - food volume has a positive impact on satiety for me that outweighs the increased eating needs of exercise.
I do find different kinds of exercise has greater or smaller hunger impact out of proportion to the actual calorie burn.
Strength training (say calorie range 200 - 300 cals) makes me want more food than I've burned.
Longer duration low to moderate cardio (say calorie range 550 - 1200 cals, one to two hours) results in low hunger signals so a much higher burn compared to how much more I want to eat. A big deficit that day is no problem.
A calorie burn (say 600 / hr) from brisk steady state cardio or exactly same calorie burn from interval training with a mix of high/low intensity creates markedly different hunger. Because interval training simply feels taxing seems to lead to more hunger.
Would a regular day (or more) at maintenance help adherence? Higher weekend allowance/lower weekday allowance perhaps?
I can sustain a deficit far easier and with far less impact on exercise performance and hunger with a very irregular (net) deficit rather than an everyday deficit. Mentally/emotionally I find sustaining a deficit and dealing with hunger today far, far easier if I know tomorrow I get to eat at maintenance. YMMV.
Wow, thanks for the the details, That's very helpful. I did also notice that strength training makes me feel even hungrier the next day. So this is why I think I end up eating more and having no choice but to to compensate for it by running.
I'm trying to do incorporate maintenance days but finding it somewhat hard at the moment. Maintenance days actually seem harder for me than some deficit days. The level of hunger, strangely, often appears to be the same or even more than on regular days. And there's even no satisfaction I get knowing I'm in deficit. I have to do a constant effort not to go over my TDEE on maintenance days. Maybe my body is reacting to more food with more hunger, because it "thinks" that if food has suddenly become more available it needs to make me eat as much as possible to compensate for the previous deficit. Or maybe it's just psychological. I'm not sure. But I keep trying.1 -
Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »I noticed that you specifically avoided saying carbs, are you trying to be low carb? Athletes aren't low carb for a reason, your muscles need and get their energy mainly from carbs. If you plan on working out that strenuously you cant be on a low carb diet and not expect to be exhausted.
If you didnt mention it because you just forgot and aren't doing low carb, then I would suggest trying to find a way to have a carb snack before your exercises to see if it helps with the hunger from the work outs.
Not at all! I eat between 45-50% carbs usually. I know I need some carbs, starches in particular to feel full. Over 50% though seem to have the opposite effect and I feel hungrier. Though that's probably not the upping carbs, but the lowering of fat and protein that does that. I didn't mention carbs because it's rare for people to get advice to eat more carbs when they feel hungry, well aside from fiber. Most of the time people tell you to eat more protein and fat. I feel that I have found the optimum macro ratio for me. Adjusting in any different way doesn't help or makes me hungrier.0 -
OP, when did you start running? I ran into the same issue as you when I reached 135lbs (I'm 5'5"). I started doing more intense cardio (running, elliptical) and my appetite shot up like crazy. I just haven't been able to go back to a deficit since that, but that's me (even if I slow down the cardio, which I did... still hungry).
For you, I'd decrease your deficit to 250 and see from there.
I started to run 3-5 times a week consistently about 6 months ago but even before I followed the same running program on and off since about 3 years ago. It's hard to say when the hunger problem started and wether it corresponded to when I started running... I think the increased hunger started before but I'm not sure.goldthistime wrote: »It's interesting to me that you say reducing the deficit doesn't really help, that hunger correlates. My thought was reduce the deficit to 250 cal a day as Francl27 suggested. But I've experienced something similar at times where my hunger correlated better to my actual weight loss rather than to rate of weight loss (within reason). Did you happen to follow any of the refeed thread discussion?
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10604863/of-refeeds-and-diet-breaks
In the video, if I remember correctly, Lyle talks about how losing weight very slowly may or may not eliminate the need for refeeds. The point of course is to reset your hunger hormones so that you can continue losing weight without feeling so hungry.
I don't know anymore whether he said it or it's just my own thinking but it may be difficult for people who like to push to stick to a tiny deficit. Personally, long before this thread came out, I found it suited me best to lose a few pounds quickly, gain some (or even all) back and then lose again, hitting new lows as I went. That's not a perfect match to his refeed strategy but it worked for me.
When I say that it correlates, I mean that for example, if I start eating in a deficit, say, 500cals/daily the hunger gets very intense in about a week or so. If I do 250cals/daily deficit, it's more like 2 weeks. So in the end the result, is the same. I thought the hunger was cyclical/cycle-related at first so I tried to just wait it out, but I ended up feeling very hungry the entirety of december with barely any deficit all month. I read the first pages of the refeed and diet breaks thread a while back, listened to a few Lyle's podcasts on the topic. I'm currently trying to incorporate refeeds and diet breaks, but I'm struggling. I strangely find myself even hungrier on refeed and maintenance days and end up eating way too much, freak out and go back to the deficit. Get too hungry again. Rinse and repeat.
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I understand. I am loathe to call this advice, but I don't just "refeed" to maintenance, I overeat at times. Maybe all I'm doing is just averaging out my net deficit to a number that is really low, or maybe the act of eating that much causes my body to change how it's handling those hunger hormones. You could experiment with more maintenance days or, if you dare, overeat for a day every once in a while. It's not so evil if you look at it over the course of a week or a month.2
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goldthistime wrote: »I understand. I am loathe to call this advice, but I don't just "refeed" to maintenance, I overeat at times. Maybe all I'm doing is just averaging out my net deficit to a number that is really low, or maybe the act of eating that much causes my body to change how it's handling those hunger hormones. You could experiment with more maintenance days or, if you dare, overeat for a day every once in a while. It's not so evil if you look at it over the course of a week or a month.
Yeah, I'm starting to suspect that overeating and then having a bigger deficit is the only way for me to produce a net deficit over time. I'm a creature of habit and like routine and overeating makes me feel like a failure, so I'd rather have a small but consistent deficit. But if that doesn't seem to work, what can I do?1 -
I wonder if a month or two of maintenance while working on body recomposition might benefit you. You're now at a healthy bmi, with your main concern being how your body carries the weight, so focusing on strength training and toning while giving your body maintenance calories might both satiate your hungry and also give you the body you want without further weightloss.
After some time eating at maintenance and working on body recomp, if you decide you want to go back to a deficit and lose mlre weight you always can, and it might help your hunger to take a break because you haven't been depriving your body consistently for months anymore.2 -
JMcGee2018 wrote: »I wonder if a month or two of maintenance while working on body recomposition might benefit you. You're now at a healthy bmi, with your main concern being how your body carries the weight, so focusing on strength training and toning while giving your body maintenance calories might both satiate your hungry and also give you the body you want without further weightloss.
After some time eating at maintenance and working on body recomp, if you decide you want to go back to a deficit and lose mlre weight you always can, and it might help your hunger to take a break because you haven't been depriving your body consistently for months anymore.
Yeah, it's possible that soon I will have to face that that this might be the only way for me to lose weight without feeling ravenous all the time. Maintenance doesn't seem to be easier for me though. I'm pretty sure I will still feel hungry (for a while at least), maybe hunger will even increase at first. And knowing that you aren't even in deficit while applying a considerable effort just not to overeat isn't easy. But if there's no other way...1 -
Just a couple of off the wall thoughts-
You say you have a BMI of 23, how long have you been at that BMI?
If you have been losing from an over weight BMI and have reached that recently you may find eating at a couple of hundred cals more than the 23 BMI is needed to re balance your hormones.
Do you know how many cals you have to eat, including your activity level, to feel satiated?
If you do, eat at that level for 10-14 days.
Have you looked at your calorie allowance for your goal weight? This allowance, when you are 10-15 lbs lighter, may not be sustainable for long term maintenance.
Think about it, if you are at a 250 deficit to lose, then you lose 10-15 lbs, your maintenance is only going to come out ~150 higher.
Look at what your maintenance is going to be at your goal weight and, if it is a number you think you can live with, switch to that. It may make your weight loss a little slower, but it may also take the mental stress out of eating at a deficit out of the picture.
Personally, if I were you, I would ditch the deficit for at least 4 months, and work on a recomp, reassessing after that time. You may find it isn't so much weight you have to lose, but resculpting your body.
You say you have some free weights available, and machines. Have a look through the 'which lifting program is best for you' thread in the 'gaining ....' forum.
With a bit of thought you can transfer the barbell work to dumbbells and machines, and some of the programmes are written for barbells.
As I said these are just a mix of off the wall thoughts looking for options.
Cheers, h.
ETA: here is a beginners machine work out.
https://www.bodybuilding.com/content/ultimate-beginners-machine-workout-for-women.html3 -
MeanderingMammal wrote: »
I guess I need to find the right balance between the deficit, exercise and intake.
Exactly. You are doing great at your excercise already. You really need to see yourself as athlete now and not a dieter. The more you burn in your workouts the more kcals you need to refuel your body. Your body's hungry signals are telling you it needs more fuel.
I swim a lot and if I don't refuel myself up enough I get hungry, fatigued, lower mood. I now have to take along protein bars if I get hungry and cant get a meal right away.
I suggest going to your settings and up your activity level. Then eat back most if not all of your excercise kcal. Then after a week or so, adjust your activity level if you need to.
Fuel your body with lean proteins, complex carbs, dairy, fruits and veggies. Most importantly, stay hydrated and listen to your body. Take a rest day once or even twice a week if needed.
I hope this is helpful. You are doing great on your workouts, keep it up.1 -
Ok wrote:
" I guess I need to find the right balance between the deficit, exercise and intake. "
Exactly. You are doing great at your excercise already. You really need to see yourself as athlete now and not a dieter.
The more you burn in your workouts the more kcals you need to refuel your body. Your body's hunger signals are telling you it needs more fuel.
I swim a lot and if I don't refuel myself up enough I get hungry, fatigued, lower mood. I now have to take along protein bars if I get hungry and cant get a meal right away.
I suggest going to your settings and up your activity level there. Then eat back most if not all of your excercise kcal. Then after a week or so, adjust your activity level if you need to.
Fuel your body with lean proteins, complex carbs, dairy, fruits and veggies. Most importantly, stay hydrated and listen to your body. Take a rest day once or even twice a week if needed.
I hope this is helpful. You are doing great on your workouts, keep it up.
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