the right training program for desired body composition?

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oat_bran
oat_bran Posts: 370 Member
edited January 2018 in Fitness and Exercise
I find it hard finding the right exercising program for my desired body composition/shape goals. I know that cardio isn't enough even if one's primarily goal is too lose weight, so I know also need to do resistance training. However, most resistance training/lifting programs targeted for women seem to assume that every woman's goal is to be lean but "curvy" and have a "booty". I know it's trendy these days for women to have a big toned butt and strong pronounced muscles, and that's fine. But that's just not the body I'd feel comfortable with. I want to be strong and lean, yes, but without any pronounced curves and muscles.

My body stores fat in my thighs and butt and I have pronounced cellulite on my back thighs and butt and I'd like to reduce that if possible and not make it any bulkier wether it's from fat or muscle. My upper body looks fit and I'm pretty happy with that. I might need to tone my belly a little but that's it. I seem to develop muscle pretty easily though. After I started running and doing light machine work, I look noticeably thinner though only a very light change on the scale. So I'm assuming I've gained some muscle after all, even with a deficit (if that's possible). And I'm looking to lose another 10-15 pounds at least.

Can anybody recommend a good resistance training program for women that doesn't have a goal of gaining "curves"? Or at least where can I find one that correspond to my needs ? Or do you think I shouldn't worry at all when in calorie deficit and just train all my body evenly to preserve muscle? I still think I need a structured program for that...
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  • malibu927
    malibu927 Posts: 17,565 Member
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    Have you checked out Stronglifts?
  • jayemes
    jayemes Posts: 865 Member
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    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1
  • sardelsa
    sardelsa Posts: 9,812 Member
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    You definitely want to stick to strength training if you want to retain muscle, it will help your legs look leaner and (even slightly) improve cellulite. Building muscle, especially for females is difficult and you will more retain what you have vs. build more curves. It has taken me years of surplus cycles to build significant curves. That being said, with your goals in mind, you probably don't want to overdo the lower body work (such as a program like Strong Curves, or even Thinner Leaner Stronger) . I would look into a program like Strong Lifts, Starting Strength, All Pro, etc. See the link jayemes posted above.

    In the end though, for the most part, your body shape is what it is. You can make some changes of course and help retain areas more than others, but genetics will dictate your proportions and how it comes off.
  • DancingMoosie
    DancingMoosie Posts: 8,619 Member
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    I started with stronglifts. It's so simple to follow and doesn't emphasize any certain body part. If you're not into heavy free weights, try something like 30 day shred, ripped in 30 (dumbbells), or even T25 (body weight and bands or dumbbells).
  • Davidsdottir
    Davidsdottir Posts: 1,285 Member
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    Lift as recommended above.
  • oat_bran
    oat_bran Posts: 370 Member
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    JerSchmare wrote: »
    Motivation to lift: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/977538/halp-heavy-lifting-made-me-supah-bulky/p1

    Um, this is exactly what I was talking about? The quality of most of the pictures is poor and I didn't go though all of the 115 pages, but what I saw didn't motivate me. Most of the women have very pronounced muscles, many have "curves". I think there's a certain assumption about how the women want to look, or how they should want to look, or what men like a woman to look (which I don't care about), which is so normalised that one can't imagine someone wanting a different body composition? I don't know...
  • sardelsa
    sardelsa Posts: 9,812 Member
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    oat_bran wrote: »
    JerSchmare wrote: »
    Motivation to lift: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/977538/halp-heavy-lifting-made-me-supah-bulky/p1

    Um, this is exactly what I was talking about? The quality of most of the pictures is poor and I didn't go though all of the 115 pages, but what I saw didn't motivate me. Most of the women have very pronounced muscles, many have "curves". I think there's a certain assumption about how the women want to look, or how they should want to look, or what men like a woman to look (which I don't care about), which is so normalised that one can't imagine someone wanting a different body composition? I don't know...

    Maybe you can expand more on what your goals are and give us more of idea we can better help you. Do you want a more lean frame like Zoe Saldana or a VS model? I would still consider those frames curvy in terms of their waist to hip ratio. Also those frames are very lean, and a result of excellent genetics. If you just want to look more fit and lean but similar to how you look now, then you don't even have to do formal strength training.. DancingMoosie mentioned programs like T25, 30day shred, or other Beachbody programs which might be more what you are looking for?
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,344 Member
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    sardelsa wrote: »
    ...In the end though, for the most part, your body shape is what it is. You can make some changes of course and help retain areas more than others, but genetics will dictate your proportions and how it comes off.

    ^ This is a very important point which bears repeating and is often overlooked. Yes, you can alter the shape of your body to a certain degree through strength training, but a lot of people have very unrealistic expectations in regards to how much you can alter your shape. As @sardelsa said, for the most part, it is what it is.

    You can't spot reduce fat from a specific area of your body - if you keep losing weight/fat, it will eventually come off, but it may be the last place it comes off from, depending upon your genetics. You certainly can build muscle in a particular part/parts of your body, but it's a long, slow, hard process and you won't suddenly wake up looking like a bodybuilder one morning.
  • oat_bran
    oat_bran Posts: 370 Member
    edited January 2018
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    sardelsa wrote: »
    oat_bran wrote: »
    JerSchmare wrote: »
    Motivation to lift: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/977538/halp-heavy-lifting-made-me-supah-bulky/p1

    Um, this is exactly what I was talking about? The quality of most of the pictures is poor and I didn't go though all of the 115 pages, but what I saw didn't motivate me. Most of the women have very pronounced muscles, many have "curves". I think there's a certain assumption about how the women want to look, or how they should want to look, or what men like a woman to look (which I don't care about), which is so normalised that one can't imagine someone wanting a different body composition? I don't know...

    Maybe you can expand more on what your goals are and give us more of idea we can better help you. Do you want a more lean frame like Zoe Saldana or a VS model? I would still consider those frames curvy in terms of their waist to hip ratio. Also those frames are very lean, and a result of excellent genetics. If you just want to look more fit and lean but similar to how you look now, then you don't even have to do formal strength training.. DancingMoosie mentioned programs like T25, 30day shred, or other Beachbody programs which might be more what you are looking for?

    Well, here are progress pictures from someone doing a BBG program for example. And the result photos look close to my goals. As you can see, the person is very toned, lean, not too thin, but has no pronounced muscles anywhere.
    VS models are too curvy for my taste.

    cd41gekdyilx.png
    2gcsqfnmmedp.png
    a4ts57uumsyz.png

    I was actually looking into BBG program (which doesn't include much lifting if I'm not mistakes?) but there isn't enough space for me to do them at my gym and it's not possible at home because of my living situation. So I was wondering if there's a way to use gym equipment (machines, weights, etc.) to achieve a similar look.
  • sardelsa
    sardelsa Posts: 9,812 Member
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    oat_bran wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    oat_bran wrote: »
    JerSchmare wrote: »
    Motivation to lift: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/977538/halp-heavy-lifting-made-me-supah-bulky/p1

    Um, this is exactly what I was talking about? The quality of most of the pictures is poor and I didn't go though all of the 115 pages, but what I saw didn't motivate me. Most of the women have very pronounced muscles, many have "curves". I think there's a certain assumption about how the women want to look, or how they should want to look, or what men like a woman to look (which I don't care about), which is so normalised that one can't imagine someone wanting a different body composition? I don't know...

    Maybe you can expand more on what your goals are and give us more of idea we can better help you. Do you want a more lean frame like Zoe Saldana or a VS model? I would still consider those frames curvy in terms of their waist to hip ratio. Also those frames are very lean, and a result of excellent genetics. If you just want to look more fit and lean but similar to how you look now, then you don't even have to do formal strength training.. DancingMoosie mentioned programs like T25, 30day shred, or other Beachbody programs which might be more what you are looking for?

    Well, here are progress pictures from someone doing a BBG program for example. And the result photos look close to my goals. As you can see, the person is very toned, lean, not too thin, but has no pronounced muscles anywhere.
    VS models are too curvy for my taste.

    cd41gekdyilx.png
    2gcsqfnmmedp.png
    a4ts57uumsyz.png

    I was actually looking into BBG program (which doesn't include much lifting if I'm not mistakes?) but there isn't enough space for me to do them at my gym and it's not possible at home because of my living situation. So I was wondering if there's a way to use gym equipment (machines, weights, etc.) to achieve a similar look.

    If I'm not mistaken, doesn't the creator (Kalya?) of that program have a weight program out? It seems like it would be something you could do and would work with your situation.

    I will say it again though...your body shape is your body shape. I always had curves (lower body heavy) and even when I was close to underweight, I still had that shape. I know we all have our dream aesthetics, but in the end you have to work with what you have
  • oat_bran
    oat_bran Posts: 370 Member
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    sardelsa wrote: »

    If I'm not mistaken, doesn't the creator (Kalya?) of that program have a weight program out? It seems like it would be something you could do and would work with your situation.

    I will say it again though...your body shape is your body shape. I always had curves (lower body heavy) and even when I was close to underweight, I still had that shape. I know we all have our dream aesthetics, but in the end you have to work with what you have

    I don't remember it having a separate weight program, but I might be mistaken. I think I will find her book and look through it again. And yeah, I agree, I know that if my body doesn't made to look a certain way, there's not program in the world that can change it.

    JerSchmare wrote: »

    I understand, and especially as a man, I wouldn’t tell any woman how she should look. That’s up to you to decide. However, consider that many of them in the picture on that link I posted are flexing. Relaxed, they don’t look muscley. Again, not at all saying you should strive to look any certain way.

    Here’s an example of flexed and relaxed. First is relaxed. You may not like either, it’s just an example of the difference. She doesn’t look muscley at all in the first pic.

    az1gcwvxk3da.jpeg

    Yeah, it's something to keep in mind. Thank you!
  • sardelsa
    sardelsa Posts: 9,812 Member
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    I think it's called BBG Stronger. Not sure if it is released yet but something to keep your eye out for. Good luck!
  • oat_bran
    oat_bran Posts: 370 Member
    edited January 2018
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    canadianlbs wrote: »

    going to say, first, that i share your frustration/eyeroll about the prescriptive assumptions that do get made about how we all want to look. and then i'm just going to give you a general rant.

    ime (in the middle of my fourth year lifting), almost all the info out there about lifting has some kind of enticement-based verbiage added to it. it all has a bit of a spin; it all starts with the assumption or the choice of a 'niche' the presenter has pre-defined and is aiming towards. i noticed it mostly because i was 48 when i started to read about strength, and i'm a woman who's 5'3" with NO interest in bulk. i soon discovered you can either go read in the locker room where most of the content addresses [young] men with the assumptions that they all want to get huge, or you can turn left instead and go into the pink zone where it's [supposedly] mostly about some variation on 'women's' aesthetics instead.

    ime, you can safely ignore [almost] all of it. as i said, most of it's just enticement. it's spin. it's exactly like how i eat lettuce because i like it, not because it's the currently trending and fashionable thing. you need to define your own reasons and skip all the parts that don't interest you. the best source i found for neutrality around all of this was mark rippetoe's book starting strength, if that's worth much to you. but i started out getting my actual programming from stronglifts 5x5 which is one of the worst and most hysterically-subjective offenders out there, at least ime.

    the only thing i can say is: don't NOT consider a programme just because it comes packaged up with assumptions that don't apply to your goals.

    So true about how almost every fitness program is based on an assumptions of everyone's goals. This is frustrating indeed. And it's true that there's a certain kind of pre-defined aesthetics for men and for women out there with not much variation.

    Thanks for the advice! Can you elaborate a little what you meant about stronglifts 5x5? Everybody seems to recommend it to me. But a few things I've seen from it seem way to scary and complicated for a complete novice in weight lifting like myself.
  • canadianlbs
    canadianlbs Posts: 5,199 Member
    edited January 2018
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    oat_bran wrote: »
    Can you elaborate a little what you meant about stronglifts 5x5?

    well . . . this is me. but i can't stand the actual guy. he reminds me of those hysterically pushy HURRY HURRY I'VE GONE INSANE COME ON DOWN carpet salesmen you used to see on tv when it was 2 in the morning. and about 1982 :tongue: i found it offensive just on general principles. his whole schtick seems to be based on the strawman approach: invent sceptics and detractors so he can flamboyantly knock them down and then piss all over them to show off.

    i think there are three factors for me. but this may be boringly all-about-me so i'll just spoiler it into sections for tidiness' sake.

    to give you my history, i started considering lifting when i was frustrated to death with the scale just not giving me sub-130 weight no matter how hard i tried. and i had that idea that muscle burns way more calories than fat, so i got all slit eyed and 'right! i'm going to go and grow muscles then'.

    when i got into lifting i took a tentative, humble sort of gee-i-don't-know-nothing approach that i regret now. it sort of wasted my time; i wanted to learn how to lift and by recognizing my own knowledge gap, i just found myself in exactly the sort of condescending little-pink-barbells 'community' that i had no interest in. i might have secretly wanted to lose some more weight, but that didnt' mean i wanted the rest of the world talking to me like i was just about that :wink: lots of that 'let's burn those calories, ladies!' type crap. just really viscerally the entire thing wasn't my thing.

    and i got obsessed with barbells. never in my whole life had i EVER seen anything as cool as a deadlift, or even more-so, an overhead press. so i was scared to death but it was one of those things where i just really really really really just wanted to do that stuff too.

    that's what took me towards stronglifts. basically, i guess if you don't seriously like the idea of compound lifting itself, t hen maybe your mileage will vary from mine. my mileage was that i wanted to do it so much that i was able to brush past the *kitten* and find 'my' own stuff.

    disclaimer: all of this is my own opinion/experience alone. 0

    so within the stronglifts idea, the verbiage is crap. the sales job is crap. the values he's speaking 'towards' wouldn't be mine in even an alternate world. so that's the first barrier.

    once you scrape away all the crap that's his tone, the lifts themselves are pretty scary for someone who's never lifted before. complicated and scary and full of stuff that you worry about. so that's the second barrier.

    however, once you've gotten past those two things, then the PROGRAMMING model is fine. programming just meaning the prescriptions about which lifts you do, how often you do them, and how many sets and repetitions you do them for, per time. i discarded the 'add five/ten pounds per workout' angle quite fast, because that one i attributed to the the fact he's not talking to me. but i liked the model itself, and just sorted out my own definition of a progression for it.

    as far as the second one goes - the technique aspect. how to actually do all the lifts. for me, i didn't find the sl information all that helpful; i'm a tough crowd when it comes to absorbing that kind of info. so i got around that barrier by getting the mark rippetoe book starting strength.

    tl;dr: when i started lifting, i used sl 5x5 for my programming template, and starting strength for my technical and technique-based guidance. and there's also a great group on mfp who i've relied on a lot. it was one of those members, in fact, who came to my rescue when i found you can't buy starting strength in any of hte brick-and-mortar stores where i live. she mailed me a copy becuase i have an ingrained allergy to using the internet for financial actions.

    dk if any of that helps. i really do appreciate rippetoe because even if he's a bit of a crusty old walrus and does have his own ego-show going on now and then, starting strength is about the the only source that i've found that does not give even a shred of a *kitten* about the aesthetics of strength. not the male form, not the female form, not any form. so he doens't presume or condescend [although he does bully a bit here and there :tongue:] i just so appreciated someone who cut through the *kitten* and talked about lifting weights as a mechanical thing. rippetoe doesn't care who you are. he doesn't care where the body fashions are at this time. he's just into 'this is what makes people strong' and i really like that.
  • canadianlbs
    canadianlbs Posts: 5,199 Member
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    kind of ot: but i was just looking at those pictures you posted, and is it just her stance, or did she have some scoliosis-y thing going on in the 'befores'?
  • oat_bran
    oat_bran Posts: 370 Member
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    canadianlbs wrote: »
    oat_bran wrote: »
    Can you elaborate a little what you meant about stronglifts 5x5?

    dk if any of that helps. i really do appreciate rippetoe because even if he's a bit of a crusty old walrus and does have his own ego-show going on now and then, starting strength is about the the only source that i've found that does not give even a shred of a *kitten* about the aesthetics of strength. not the male form, not the female form, not any form. so he doens't presume or condescend [although he does bully a bit here and there :tongue:] i just so appreciated someone who cut through the *kitten* and talked about lifting weights as a mechanical thing. rippetoe doesn't care who you are. he doesn't care where the body fashions are at this time. he's just into 'this is what makes people strong' and i really like that.

    It does help! thank you so much for taking your time to go into such detail! This a very useful advice for a beginner. I may not share the same level of fascination for lifting as you, but I totally understand your frustration with assumptions and condescending attitude towards women in the fitness industry/community. Thanks again!

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