Slimming World to MFP

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parachute_hoot
parachute_hoot Posts: 21 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
Hi all

I have been a SW member for about 18 months. In that time I have lost 3st 4lbs, but currently sitting at around a 3st weight loss. I reached 3st in May last year, so I have struggled since then and I really feel it is to do with exercise.

I hit my 3st loss and I felt like I had so much more energy and I wanted to start exercising. I went from doing very little exercise to probably overdoing it, maybe exercising 10 times a week... this lead to an injury which I am doing my best to manage but I am restricted by how much I can do.

However, I joined a ladies football team - I train Tuesday nights, Wednesday nights and play a 90 minute match on a Sunday. I try and run some days in between to help build my fitness. I want to achieve a sub-30minute 5k this year, as I am currently 33-35minute 5ker so I am trying to factor that in. If I feel my injury and I can't run or don't want to, I will factor in a HIIT gym class. So on average, I would do 4-5 days of exercise per week. I also try and do over 10k steps per day on the days where I am not exercising, which normally involves walking. So I have gone from being inactive and lazy to being quite active.

I was concerned about my losses slowing down towards the end of last year. I still feel that I have 1 and a half stone left to lose - that's my ideal weight range, I think. According to BMI stats I could probably lose up to 3st more but I don't think that's something I want to aim for at all as it would be the very lowest range for my height and current weight and exercise habits. However, it was December and I had lots of parties, nights out and that so I didn't really think about it too much until the first Slimming World weigh in after Christmas. I stuck to plan over Christmas and New Year and in those two weeks I managed to lose 2lbs - from 20th December, to 3rd January. I felt like on 3/4 days I over indulged but the rest of the days were normal SW days for me. The only difference was, I didn't do much or any exercise in that time. I always aim to drink 2-3ltrs of water/squash per day.

This 2lb loss on 3rd Jan gave me a massive boost and great determination to push on get to my target but it just isn't happening for me... I have lost just 0.5lbs since then, and I have ramped up the exercise due to wanting to regain fitness and my injury being much improved. I could play football 3 days per week, go for a very long walk on one day, then run on two days. I can happily accept no weight loss or a gain if I feel it is justified. If I have some nights out, some meals out then I can take it on the chin and get back on plan. But I haven't had a drink, a meal out, no binges or takeaways in that time.

So what has happened? It is really frustrating. I feel quite annoyed and upset about it. I have gone to group on the last two occasions expecting a big loss but have had a maintain. Honestly, it's soul destroying! I enjoy SW and the meals and going to group - I love hearing the stories and journeys of the other members and I feel that weekly weigh-in keeps me on track. I have either hit some kind of plateau or I am doing something really wrong.

My Husband bought me some new Levis at Christmas. On Christmas Day when I tried them on they were a little too tight for comfort... Just last Saturday we were laughing because I was needing the bathroom so badly that when I got home and got there, I was able to pull my jeans down without unbuttoning them... so there is obviously some changes afoot, just not on the scales.

So I have spent this past week doing some Googling and looking into it a bit more and this has led me here. I have seen on Instagram, online slimming boards where people hit a similar plateau once taking up exercising. I started thinking about what I am eating, and how in terms of portion sizes, it hasn't really changed since I started... I am probably eating the same amount as I did when I was 3st heavier and that didn't seem right to me.

So I went to the spaghetti jar and took out what I felt was a normal portion of spgahetti for me, as I am having spagbol for my dinner tonight. I weighed it and it was approx 160g... that is almost 600 calories which stunned me.

So I decided to download MFP and input today's food intake. Here are my findings:

Breakfast: x3 soft boiled eggs and a small orange [260 cals]

Lunch: 40g dried quinoa and bulgar wheat with onions, peppers, mushrooms, 15g chorizo, 1.5 tblspn light soy sauce, piri piri seasoning, frylight spray [239 cals]

Dinner: 100g spaghetti, 100g lean 5% fat mince, onions, mushrooms, peppers, carrot, garlic, chillies, coriander, passata, beef stock cube, water [625 cals]

Other: Milk and sugar for 2 cups of tea [40 cals] / SW Hi-Fi Bar [123 cals] / Timeout Wafer [111]

That takes me to 1378 calories - just under my daily recommended intake.

With Slimming World, without downloading this app, I would have had an extra 60g pasta [245 cals], another Hi-Fi bar [70-130 cals], I would only have used 6.5 'syns' so I would have used up to an additional 8.5 syns of chocolate probably [approx 170 cals]. I would have had my HexA cheese allowance of 30g cheese too [approx 130 cals]. So my normal SW day would have seen me intake an additional 675 calories potentially.

I wouldn't have needed those additional calories, I would have been taking them to tick the boxes I needed to in order to make the plan 'work'. Of course, all of this is without adding in exercise.

I just find this staggering and I am wondering if this is why I have stagnated...?

I think I need to look into this a bit more. I do like SW and I like the group element to it but there is definitely an imbalance with exercise and how the plan works IMO. Maybe more of a guidance issue.

But I think I want to start tracking my calories on MFP but still follow SW, as it does teach good control over 'bad' foods which helps me. And I like the group element. But I definitely think I am perhaps intaking more carbs than I need to. SW does encourage you to have one third of your plate speed foods, which I largely tend to do. I will be honest and say that when I have spagbol or a SW fakeaway meal I don't always have a third of my plate speedy. I think this is because we don't have takeways and I see these as my 'naughty' meals, when in fact they are perfectly fine within the SW plan.

Has anyone been in a similar position? I am desperate for the scales to start moving again! As I said, I still have 1 and a half stones to lose so it isn't a case of being at the low end of my healthy weight range, I am still overweight with some left to shift.

Any help or guidance or advice is much appreciated - both good and bad. Perhaps you see things I am doing wrong or foods I shouldn't be eating. In the space of a few hours from downloading the app, I definitely see some things I want to change - the amount of carbs I eat, binning those SW hex B bars, etc... I need to give myself time to research a bit more and understand what changes I can make that help me stick to the plan but within a controlled calorie environment.

But I am really determined to do this, so I hope to keep an update here and within a few weeks see some positive changes weight wise!
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Replies

  • parachute_hoot
    parachute_hoot Posts: 21 Member
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    cheryldumais wrote: »
    I don't know anything about Slimming World but I can tell you that there is no magic combination of foods or special exercise that makes you lose weight. The trick is to burn more calories than you eat. As your weight is reducing your calorie expenditure is being reduced as well because you have less body to fuel. If you ramp up your exercise you can offset this somewhat but at the end of the day as time goes by and your weight goes down you need less calories to function and if you don't reduce what you eat you will maintain the weight you are at. You should not aim to lose too fast and you should not go below 1200 calories for women or 1500 for men unless directed by your family doctor otherwise. When you are on the last 20 pounds or so you need to be really patient because it takes a while to lose sometimes simply because your calorie needs are so much lower. Good luck.

    Thanks for your encouragement!

    I appreciate what you are saying, and it is good to hear as I feared there was some kind of imbalance or combination I needed to hit before losing again but I suspect it does come down to calories in > calories out, as I see so many hidden and unnecessary calories now with SW.
  • parachute_hoot
    parachute_hoot Posts: 21 Member
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    SteamPug wrote: »
    The thing is with slimming world and similar groups is that they don’t teach you how to continue weight loss outside of paying them money. By using ‘syns’ they fail to equip people with real knowledge of how weight loss occurs, meaning that at some point you’re probably gonna start failing and gaining weight. It’s all designed to keep you giving them money. Their entire business is built on you doing well just a little bit, but not allowing you complete success because then they go out of business :/
    If they told you losing weight is as simple as eating less than you burn then no one would give them money. I’d strongly recommend learning more on your own accord, which you’ve already been doing really well, and turning to online forums such as MFP for the social support you need. You may even find groups on FB of local people looking to lose weight if you need some support face-to-face. And if you can’t find one.. make your own!

    Thanks for taking the time to reply.

    I can see what you are saying but I like to think of myself as ahead of the curve in this instance, having spotted issues with Slimming World and instead of quitting and reverting back to how I was, I am determined to make the changes necessary to get back to losing, so I don’t think I will be ‘one of those who start falling and gaining what I lost’.

    I see a lot of things with SW I don’t like and I avoid including foods that are encouraged but don’t have much nutritional value like Müller Light yogurts and Mugshots.

    However, in SW’s defence... once you are a target member and achieve your own set goal, you don’t have to pay to attend classes which is good and an incentive for those long standing members. However, I do suspect those who manage to get to target need to seek independent help once they get close, as I think it does take some tinkering.

    Thanks for your comments, I think it is a good idea to become and bit more responsible for what I eat and educate myself a bit more.
  • scampiuk
    scampiuk Posts: 1 Member
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    I've been doing SW for ~15 months, and lost around 7st doing that and Couch to 5k.

    I've recently started doing proper recording of calories in / calories out wiith MFP and Garmin Connect.

    I've understood for some time that with SW, it's a tool to stop you eating crap like chocolate and bread by giving you the opportunity to eat almost unlimited amounts of other, better things - I think the idea being that you're going to fill yourself up on pasta, rice, etc and not be craving the bad stuff. The harder limits on milk, cheese, and breads are also great habits to have.

    However, there comes a time where eating a big bowl of pasta or rice for dinner isn't going to work, and that's the point where whoever is leading the group will start getting you to ease back on the portions. At that point, I considered it a bit of a guessing game.

    I've not stayed for the meetings for nearly half a year now. The weekly ritual of going and weighing in has been enough to keep me on the straight and narrow.

    I've spoken in groups before about my use of FitBit/Garmin, and oddly the thing that got picked up by the leader was that the calorie count / burn would be wrong... which may be technically correct ( I'm not daft, these things are well educated guess at best ) but it seemed odd to point that out hard and fast.

    The last few weeks of counting has been a success IMHO, I've continued to loose ( where in the months before Christmas it was getting a bit shaky ) and I feel much more in control of my diet. Seeing the calorie amount for that big bowl of pasta was a real eye-opener!

    I've signed up for the 10 week discount plan, but honestly I'm just using it as an accurate set of scales and some something I have to be accountable too. After that's up, I may stop going - with the prevision that If I don't keep weighing in and progressing I'll go back.



  • parachute_hoot
    parachute_hoot Posts: 21 Member
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    scampiuk wrote: »
    I've been doing SW for ~15 months, and lost around 7st doing that and Couch to 5k.

    I've recently started doing proper recording of calories in / calories out wiith MFP and Garmin Connect.

    I've understood for some time that with SW, it's a tool to stop you eating crap like chocolate and bread by giving you the opportunity to eat almost unlimited amounts of other, better things - I think the idea being that you're going to fill yourself up on pasta, rice, etc and not be craving the bad stuff. The harder limits on milk, cheese, and breads are also great habits to have.

    However, there comes a time where eating a big bowl of pasta or rice for dinner isn't going to work, and that's the point where whoever is leading the group will start getting you to ease back on the portions. At that point, I considered it a bit of a guessing game.

    I've not stayed for the meetings for nearly half a year now. The weekly ritual of going and weighing in has been enough to keep me on the straight and narrow.

    I've spoken in groups before about my use of FitBit/Garmin, and oddly the thing that got picked up by the leader was that the calorie count / burn would be wrong... which may be technically correct ( I'm not daft, these things are well educated guess at best ) but it seemed odd to point that out hard and fast.

    The last few weeks of counting has been a success IMHO, I've continued to loose ( where in the months before Christmas it was getting a bit shaky ) and I feel much more in control of my diet. Seeing the calorie amount for that big bowl of pasta was a real eye-opener!

    I've signed up for the 10 week discount plan, but honestly I'm just using it as an accurate set of scales and some something I have to be accountable too. After that's up, I may stop going - with the prevision that If I don't keep weighing in and progressing I'll go back.

    Hiya

    I think we are in a similar phase/boat.

    I fully agree with the principles of SW being a fantastic starting point for anyone with weight to lose, especially a great deal of weight - it is incredibly comforting for people starting out, thinking they can eat as much as they like and still lose weight. But when you lose the weight and are trying to get towards target, it stands to reason that those portions will need to be reduced.

    Last week was my first week calorie counting. I had 3 weeks of x2 maintain and x1 of a 0.5lb gain, which I expected due to a weekend of eating out. However, the two weeks of maintains I found hard to get my head around, as I was 'on plan'. I have found the last few months really hard to lose, and now I am starting to realise it is due to portion sizes.

    My first week of calorie counting resulted in a 3.5lb loss. I haven't had a loss that big in several months.

    I enjoy the groups and the people and hearing their stories and their journeys, so i will continue to go and continue to follow the plan but to ensure my daily calorie intake is below the recommended amount.

    Congratulations of your loss - that's a phenomenal achievement.
  • PrincessVamp666
    PrincessVamp666 Posts: 1,176 Member
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    I have to agree I am inclined to agree with you, at the moment I am Morbidly Obese (around 8 stone to lose), I have been since around 2014 and I had a baby a few years ago too. I follow Slimming Worlds concept (my friends have joined up) but I can't afford to, so I am following the plan without actually being a paying member.

    Now I see people filling their plates with huge amounts of carbs (Pasta etc), and eating a lot of artificial sweeteners (which I thought was bad because it actually increases the cravings for sweet things), I think the whole concept is a bit strange. They say you can eat as much Free Foods and Speed Foods as you like until you are "Full and Satisfied" but some people can't grasp this and they literally pile their plates high with "Free Foods" such as pasta etc.
  • Nudgey02
    Nudgey02 Posts: 24 Member
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    Hiya, I lost weight on Slimming World, become a target member and then become a Slimming World Consultant and truly believed that SW was the only way for people to lose weight. Since giving up my SW job due to a change in my full time job two years ago, I piled weight back on. I then tried to do SW online as I couldn't get to a group but only managed to lose 7lb in 6 months.

    Firstly I believe that SW is an amazing way to teach people about healthy eating, swapping high cal foods for low cal foods (without even mentioning calories or counting them) and how to cook meals healthier. There is a point when just the change in foods will not work due to the amount of calories being consumed, this is when you really need to focus on having the third of a plate speed foods. i.e. if a third of your plate of spag bol is a salad, you are reducing your calorie intake for that meal by almost a third as a salad will only be around 20-30 cals. An average plate of homemade spag bol is 500 cals, by replacing a third of that with salad you are reducing it to around 350 cals. I think SW focuses on adding third plate salad rather than replacing therefore leading to no change in the calories consumed and leading to people feeling disappointed. It can work if you stick strictly to the SW rules. But the time when you most need to reduce the calories, people have already lost the strictness that they have at the beginning and this is why they eventually feel that it is no longer working for them. Another issue is that certain exercises can cause you to stay the same weight where muscle is being produced, you will feel thinner, and look thinner but the scales won't reflect this it therefore puts people off exercising. Focusing on the weight on the scale does not work if you lift weights and build muscle.

    Since deciding to use MFP I have been able to track my calories and weight loss so much better, I still use the principles that I learned in SW but have added in more weighing and tracking to enable me to get back to the weight I want to be. I also think that the importance of exercise isn't explained nearly enough at SW and as mentioned above, people are put off if they exercise and put weight on or stay the same weight. MFP made me do more exercise due to being able to eat more calories on days that I exercise, it has now made this part of my life in a way that SW didn't do.
  • Roobyzooby
    Roobyzooby Posts: 189 Member
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    I did SW many times over the years, back when it was red and green days. So I can't comment on the current plan. But I lost weight and got to target every time, but I was never able to maintain it. For me trying to fit the SW plan around family meals became downright miserable and I ended up even bigger. I can't stomach muller light yoghurts any more and I have to force myself to eat fruit after years of filling up on SW "free and speed foods". Fast forward to the lowest point in my life when I had rocketed up to 8st heavier than I should have been and the light bulb went on, its not about restricting food choices its about sticking to a calorie goal. MFP and I became best friends, I am now 8st lighter, at my target have been for 4 months or so now, in a uk size 10 jeans (was a 22/24) my exercise is mostly walking and after about 4st loss I bought an elliptical and I alternate days with that and some at home resistance training. My best advice to you is find an eating plan that works best for you, a lifestyle change that you know you will be able to maintain long term. Good luck with it :-)
  • parachute_hoot
    parachute_hoot Posts: 21 Member
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    PAV8888 wrote: »
    You did not exercise much during the holidays. You dropped water weight associated with muscle repairs and exercise. You resumed exercising after the holidays. You have re-acquired a certain amount of water weight.

    Your complete answer is in how your pants are fitting you.

    You are more ruled by the scale by doing big weigh in events once a week than you would be by doing daily weigh ins in private and using a weight trend application or web site to record your weight trend. This might also give you even more insight into water weight variations having to do with your monthly cycle and the types of foods that you eat (gain after eating out probably has more to do with sodium than actual fat gain).

    Weight loss does not always happen like clockwork, especially if your deficits are correctly sized and you are not morbidly obese.

    You are doing excellent and should be celebrating instead of feeling frustrated!

    P.S. crap like chocolate and bread and good stuff like pasta and rice? OH MY!

    Thanks very much for your words of advice and your kind compliments!

    I think for me, this is only week 2 of calorie counting and I still feel quite unsure about it all. For example, trusting how many calories I burn with exercise before allowing myself to ‘eat back’ my calories, allowing myself a sugary snack if I have quite a lot of calories left - all things that feel abnormal for me because I was strictly doing a plan that didn’t allow for that (didn’t allow for an extra snack if I had used up my ‘syns’ for example). I lost 42lbs on the plan, so straying from it scares the life out of me! Hence why I am still keen to weigh in weekly and use the support of the group function etc...

    For those who have done SW in this thread... I find myself at a cross roads tonight... I have 700 calories left to use tonight and I have had my dinner... I have almost had all my syns for the day... so I really shouldn’t have too many more ‘syns’ if I am sticking to the plan but I have 700 left for tonight. If I stick to SW and only have a very small snack for 3-4 syns (approx 80 calories) I will be left with 600 banked for the night and I suspect MFP might tell me I am not eating enough.

    I guess what I am trying to ask is... can I still eat 400 calories worth of ‘syns’ (eg choc or something) and still loose weight if I stay under my calorie goal for the day?

  • parachute_hoot
    parachute_hoot Posts: 21 Member
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    Nudgey02 wrote: »
    Hiya, I lost weight on Slimming World, become a target member and then become a Slimming World Consultant and truly believed that SW was the only way for people to lose weight.

    MFP made me do more exercise due to being able to eat more calories on days that I exercise, it has now made this part of my life in a way that SW didn't do.

    Hiya

    I agree with a lot of what you are saying and that is learned from my own experiences.

    Do you find that you completely stopped following the SW plan and went 100% to MFP or did you try and combine them?

    As I mentioned above, I am finding it difficult to break away from the plan. I think it’s because I trust it and I fear the unknown, but I recognise for where I want to be, I need to make adjustments eg portion control, watching my calorie count and understanding how exercise plays a part.

    Congrats on your loss - that’s incredible!

  • parachute_hoot
    parachute_hoot Posts: 21 Member
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    Roobyzooby wrote: »
    I did SW many times over the years, back when it was red and green days. So I can't comment on the current plan. But I lost weight and got to target every time, but I was never able to maintain it. For me trying to fit the SW plan around family meals became downright miserable and I ended up even bigger. I can't stomach muller light yoghurts any more and I have to force myself to eat fruit after years of filling up on SW "free and speed foods". Fast forward to the lowest point in my life when I had rocketed up to 8st heavier than I should have been and the light bulb went on, its not about restricting food choices its about sticking to a calorie goal. MFP and I became best friends, I am now 8st lighter, at my target have been for 4 months or so now, in a uk size 10 jeans (was a 22/24) my exercise is mostly walking and after about 4st loss I bought an elliptical and I alternate days with that and some at home resistance training. My best advice to you is find an eating plan that works best for you, a lifestyle change that you know you will be able to maintain long term. Good luck with it :-)


    Wow...! Congratulations on your loss and managing to maintain it!

    I am slowly trying to find my feet with finding the right ‘plan’ for me, mainly due to trust issues with calorie counting and moving away from SW but I feel like I am in control and I recognise that something needs to change with me in terms of what I am currently doing. I lost 3st then kind of pleateuxed for a few months... I didn’t regain 3st or anything but I just felt like I wasn’t able to kick on to the next level which is how I ended up here, counting calories.

    I am still so wary of eating within 90% of my calorie goal, even without factoring in exercise, if I have gone over my syn count for the day. I try to rationalise it in my head e.g. if I’ve used 13 syns on avocado, butter, some cheese and I still have 600-800 calories left, I am afraid to then use that on things like a piece of chocolate or some nuts or crisps etc...

    I guess it’s just something I will learn as I go!
  • 17adf33
    17adf33 Posts: 30 Member
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    The problem I would have with Slimming World is portion size for carbohydrates. Plus having always calorie counted, I find it easier. Higher protein/ lower carb seems to suit me in that I feel less hungry.
  • Nudgey02
    Nudgey02 Posts: 24 Member
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    parachute_hoot wrote: »
    Nudgey02 wrote: »
    Hiya, I lost weight on Slimming World, become a target member and then become a Slimming World Consultant and truly believed that SW was the only way for people to lose weight.

    MFP made me do more exercise due to being able to eat more calories on days that I exercise, it has now made this part of my life in a way that SW didn't do.

    Hiya

    I agree with a lot of what you are saying and that is learned from my own experiences.

    Do you find that you completely stopped following the SW plan and went 100% to MFP or did you try and combine them?

    As I mentioned above, I am finding it difficult to break away from the plan. I think it’s because I trust it and I fear the unknown, but I recognise for where I want to be, I need to make adjustments eg portion control, watching my calorie count and understanding how exercise plays a part.

    Congrats on your loss - that’s incredible!

    Hiya, I just 100% count calories using MFP now, no tracking syns etc. It's more important to me to know that I am eating the right balance of protein, carbs and fat and having the correct amount of calories. But I still use SW recipes as they are normally low calorie, I also still eat Sw ready meals from Iceland.

    Well done so far and good luck with transitioning to MFP.

  • Nudgey02
    Nudgey02 Posts: 24 Member
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    And I doesn't matter how many 'syns' something is. If you are under or even a bit over your calorie allowance you will lose weight. As long as the number of calories is less that the amount your body burns through just keeping you alive and then any extra exercise you do you will lose.
  • lightenup2016
    lightenup2016 Posts: 1,055 Member
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    Nudgey02 wrote: »
    lightenup2016 wrote: »
    parachute_hoot wrote: »
    PAV8888 wrote: »
    You did not exercise much during the holidays. You dropped water weight associated with muscle repairs and exercise. You resumed exercising after the holidays. You have re-acquired a certain amount of water weight.

    Your complete answer is in how your pants are fitting you.

    You are more ruled by the scale by doing big weigh in events once a week than you would be by doing daily weigh ins in private and using a weight trend application or web site to record your weight trend. This might also give you even more insight into water weight variations having to do with your monthly cycle and the types of foods that you eat (gain after eating out probably has more to do with sodium than actual fat gain).

    Weight loss does not always happen like clockwork, especially if your deficits are correctly sized and you are not morbidly obese.

    You are doing excellent and should be celebrating instead of feeling frustrated!

    P.S. crap like chocolate and bread and good stuff like pasta and rice? OH MY!

    Thanks very much for your words of advice and your kind compliments!

    I think for me, this is only week 2 of calorie counting and I still feel quite unsure about it all. For example, trusting how many calories I burn with exercise before allowing myself to ‘eat back’ my calories, allowing myself a sugary snack if I have quite a lot of calories left - all things that feel abnormal for me because I was strictly doing a plan that didn’t allow for that (didn’t allow for an extra snack if I had used up my ‘syns’ for example). I lost 42lbs on the plan, so straying from it scares the life out of me! Hence why I am still keen to weigh in weekly and use the support of the group function etc...

    For those who have done SW in this thread... I find myself at a cross roads tonight... I have 700 calories left to use tonight and I have had my dinner... I have almost had all my syns for the day... so I really shouldn’t have too many more ‘syns’ if I am sticking to the plan but I have 700 left for tonight. If I stick to SW and only have a very small snack for 3-4 syns (approx 80 calories) I will be left with 600 banked for the night and I suspect MFP might tell me I am not eating enough.

    I guess what I am trying to ask is... can I still eat 400 calories worth of ‘syns’ (eg choc or something) and still loose weight if I stay under my calorie goal for the day?


    Yes!! It really is all about the calories!! Now, if you have something with a lot of sodium, you might see an increase in water weight, but it's temporary.

    The concept of "syns" gives me the creeps. I'm guessing that's supposed to be like a "sin" if you eat those foods? Based on whose judgment? I feel like I would be constantly bombarded with the feeling of doing something horribly wrong, just by having a Girl Scout cookie, or glass of wine? No, no, no. If it's within your calorie goal it won't make you gain weight. Too many calories of the healthiest foods on the planet will still make you gain weight. You are absolutely correct that it really is about portion control--of everything.

    Good luck, and welcome to mfp!

    Syns are short for synergy, meaning that it's what stops the plan being a diet as it's not strictly saying cutting things out. Everything that is not free food (that you can eat as much as you want of) has to be weighed and counted. It's so you can still have things that you want each day such as wine, chocolate, crisps etc. It's nothing to do with it being bad or a sin. It's just changing how you think about food rather than seeing it as good and bad and stops people being restrictive and therefore giving up

    Ok, I was wrong about that. But it sure sounds the same! Anyway, the rest of what I posted is correct :smile:

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