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Too smart to lose weight?
Replies
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I used to work in academia and found that many "smart" people get bogged down in attempting to understand relatively meaningless issues such as "Why did this happen?" rather than actually taking action and doing something...anything that may mitigate risk.
I often bring up the Pareto Principle - focusing on the 20% of effort that drives 80% of the results. In this case CICO and calorie counting is that 20%. Pretty much all else is irrelevant for the majority of the population unless you are an elite level athlete.
That's actually to be expressed as "Put 80% of your effort on your 20% worst problems. Then re-rank and re-sort and re-sume."0 -
Agree with those that it's simple - but not easy.
We have a society that circles around convenience and ease of getting what we want, and quickly. Amazon Prime anyone? (I'm a huge fan by the way LOL).
Losing weight by the CICO method isn't instant, it takes time, and it's not convenient. It means regular trips to the grocery store, actually paying attention to what and how you're cooking it (and cooking yourself more often to begin with), and noticing everything that goes into what you're eating.
We also have way too many people who subscribe to the idea that things aren't their own fault.
Fad diets, pills, and anything that gives quick results (even if short lived) fits into the "popular" way of thinking.
Actually putting in the work and stopping with the excuses? THAT'S the hard part.
Really, IMO, it boils down to one thing - PRIORITIES.
If something is important to us, we will make it happen. If not, we will come up with excuses. If someone is honest about their priorities, they won't complain about their weight while doing nothing about it.
Perfect example - this last summer, I was way to stressed trying to save my leg to worry about my eating, and with walking being a challenge, I wasn't motivated to work on the things I could at the gym. I knew this, I knew I could control my weight by watching my food - I didn't want to. So I didn't, and yes, I put on weight, but it was a choice at that time. I knew the truth, and admitted to myself that it wasn't enough of a priority.
Now it is, and now I'm slowly working on reversing the damage.
FAR too many Americans at least (can't speak to other countries) can't admit that it is THEIR choice, and won't admit that what their priorities really are.4 -
HoneyBadger155 wrote: »Agree with those that it's simple - but not easy.
We have a society that circles around convenience and ease of getting what we want, and quickly. Amazon Prime anyone? (I'm a huge fan by the way LOL).
Losing weight by the CICO method isn't instant, it takes time, and it's not convenient. It means regular trips to the grocery store, actually paying attention to what and how you're cooking it (and cooking yourself more often to begin with), and noticing everything that goes into what you're eating.
We also have way too many people who subscribe to the idea that things aren't their own fault.
Fad diets, pills, and anything that gives quick results (even if short lived) fits into the "popular" way of thinking.
Actually putting in the work and stopping with the excuses? THAT'S the hard part.
Really, IMO, it boils down to one thing - PRIORITIES.
If something is important to us, we will make it happen. If not, we will come up with excuses. If someone is honest about their priorities, they won't complain about their weight while doing nothing about it.
Perfect example - this last summer, I was way to stressed trying to save my leg to worry about my eating, and with walking being a challenge, I wasn't motivated to work on the things I could at the gym. I knew this, I knew I could control my weight by watching my food - I didn't want to. So I didn't, and yes, I put on weight, but it was a choice at that time. I knew the truth, and admitted to myself that it wasn't enough of a priority.
Now it is, and now I'm slowly working on reversing the damage.
FAR too many Americans at least (can't speak to other countries) can't admit that it is THEIR choice, and won't admit that what their priorities really are.
Nothing worth having is simple or easy. Anything given has no value. We have allowed a society of blame as opposed to a society of responsibility. Much easier to reject responsibility than it is to accept it, but this is a sure recipe for failure.
Anytime I hear "I don't have time" I point out that there are 168 hours in a week. Explain to me how you can't budget in 3 hours/week to exercise.4 -
kommodevaran wrote: »
I agree, but overcomplicating isn't making things easier? Lots of people put in enormous effort to stay on the most hopeless diet and exercise regimens. I did too. Eating food I like, just a little less, and walking, is easy, not just simple!quiksylver296 wrote: »It's simple, but not easy. People want easy.
It's not easy when its not what you want to do or accustomed to doing. Just saying.1 -
HoneyBadger155 wrote: »Agree with those that it's simple - but not easy.
We have a society that circles around convenience and ease of getting what we want, and quickly. Amazon Prime anyone? (I'm a huge fan by the way LOL).
Losing weight by the CICO method isn't instant, it takes time, and it's not convenient. It means regular trips to the grocery store, actually paying attention to what and how you're cooking it (and cooking yourself more often to begin with), and noticing everything that goes into what you're eating.
We also have way too many people who subscribe to the idea that things aren't their own fault.
Fad diets, pills, and anything that gives quick results (even if short lived) fits into the "popular" way of thinking.
Actually putting in the work and stopping with the excuses? THAT'S the hard part.
Really, IMO, it boils down to one thing - PRIORITIES.
If something is important to us, we will make it happen. If not, we will come up with excuses. If someone is honest about their priorities, they won't complain about their weight while doing nothing about it.
Perfect example - this last summer, I was way to stressed trying to save my leg to worry about my eating, and with walking being a challenge, I wasn't motivated to work on the things I could at the gym. I knew this, I knew I could control my weight by watching my food - I didn't want to. So I didn't, and yes, I put on weight, but it was a choice at that time. I knew the truth, and admitted to myself that it wasn't enough of a priority.
Now it is, and now I'm slowly working on reversing the damage.
FAR too many Americans at least (can't speak to other countries) can't admit that it is THEIR choice, and won't admit that what their priorities really are.
Nothing worth having is simple or easy. Anything given has no value. We have allowed a society of blame as opposed to a society of responsibility. Much easier to reject responsibility than it is to accept it, but this is a sure recipe for failure.
Anytime I hear "I don't have time" I point out that there are 168 hours in a week. Explain to me how you can't budget in 3 hours/week to exercise.
Just be sure you listen before you judge. Today's culture is all about the hardship Olympics; many of the people you talk to are in mindless competition, but not all. I wasn't very healthy when I worked 2 full-time jobs on opposite ends of town for minimum wage and had to pay out of pocket for all my healthcare/medical needs. Technically, I still had time to make healthy choices, but exhaustion got the better of me. Yeah, I had priorities, and medical expenses required me to work that much until I scored a better job. It was A LOT easier to get healthy once I got into a better situation.3 -
HoneyBadger155 wrote: »Agree with those that it's simple - but not easy.
We have a society that circles around convenience and ease of getting what we want, and quickly. Amazon Prime anyone? (I'm a huge fan by the way LOL).
Losing weight by the CICO method isn't instant, it takes time, and it's not convenient. It means regular trips to the grocery store, actually paying attention to what and how you're cooking it (and cooking yourself more often to begin with), and noticing everything that goes into what you're eating.
We also have way too many people who subscribe to the idea that things aren't their own fault.
Fad diets, pills, and anything that gives quick results (even if short lived) fits into the "popular" way of thinking.
Actually putting in the work and stopping with the excuses? THAT'S the hard part.
Really, IMO, it boils down to one thing - PRIORITIES.
If something is important to us, we will make it happen. If not, we will come up with excuses. If someone is honest about their priorities, they won't complain about their weight while doing nothing about it.
Perfect example - this last summer, I was way to stressed trying to save my leg to worry about my eating, and with walking being a challenge, I wasn't motivated to work on the things I could at the gym. I knew this, I knew I could control my weight by watching my food - I didn't want to. So I didn't, and yes, I put on weight, but it was a choice at that time. I knew the truth, and admitted to myself that it wasn't enough of a priority.
Now it is, and now I'm slowly working on reversing the damage.
FAR too many Americans at least (can't speak to other countries) can't admit that it is THEIR choice, and won't admit that what their priorities really are.
Nothing worth having is simple or easy. Anything given has no value. We have allowed a society of blame as opposed to a society of responsibility. Much easier to reject responsibility than it is to accept it, but this is a sure recipe for failure.
Anytime I hear "I don't have time" I point out that there are 168 hours in a week. Explain to me how you can't budget in 3 hours/week to exercise.
Just be sure you listen before you judge. Today's culture is all about the hardship Olympics; many of the people you talk to are in mindless competition, but not all. I wasn't very healthy when I worked 2 full-time jobs on opposite ends of town for minimum wage and had to pay out of pocket for all my healthcare/medical needs. Technically, I still had time to make healthy choices, but exhaustion got the better of me. Yeah, I had priorities, and medical expenses required me to work that much until I scored a better job. It was A LOT easier to get healthy once I got into a better situation.
No judgement involved - just using data to prove or disprove a point. This is how growth occurs.1 -
But how do we know what we want, when we don't know what it's like? My current habits were very easy once I started. I also had more energy once I started to eat better and stopped hunting for and hiding candy. But I didn't know that. Things I enjoy now, snd do effortlessly - for instance, eating regularly, cooking from scratch, planning meals, freezing and thawing, using a food scale, cutting up melons and pineapples - seemed crazy, outdated, too much work, pointless! I was so against it, I actually remember thinking, "I'd rather be fat!".STLBADGIRL wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »
I agree, but overcomplicating isn't making things easier? Lots of people put in enormous effort to stay on the most hopeless diet and exercise regimens. I did too. Eating food I like, just a little less, and walking, is easy, not just simple!quiksylver296 wrote: »It's simple, but not easy. People want easy.
It's not easy when its not what you want to do or accustomed to doing. Just saying.5 -
STLBADGIRL wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »
I agree, but overcomplicating isn't making things easier? Lots of people put in enormous effort to stay on the most hopeless diet and exercise regimens. I did too. Eating food I like, just a little less, and walking, is easy, not just simple!quiksylver296 wrote: »It's simple, but not easy. People want easy.
It's not easy when its not what you want to do or accustomed to doing. Just saying.
But almost all high-payoff personal growth is like that. Yet after I make one uncomfortable major change for the better, future ones become easier. Life improvement accelerates, potentially.
I suspect - based on personal stories I've read here - that for some, successful weight loss turns out to be a "gateway drug" leading to other significant life improvements.
(It was not that for me. Becoming an athlete in my 40s kind of was, and one of the things it led to - 10+ years later - was weight loss).
Edit: wrong verb form3 -
STLBADGIRL wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »
I agree, but overcomplicating isn't making things easier? Lots of people put in enormous effort to stay on the most hopeless diet and exercise regimens. I did too. Eating food I like, just a little less, and walking, is easy, not just simple!quiksylver296 wrote: »It's simple, but not easy. People want easy.
It's not easy when its not what you want to do or accustomed to doing. Just saying.
I don't think anyone here is saying it's easy. I think a lot of people are, or maybe just me, are saying we over-complicate a simple process. Simple =/= easy.
I imagine being in a situation where you had no other choice to lose weight, be it medical reasons - what have you, would be an entirely other beast added to the forest. But it boils down to emotional/mental (not including health/medical conditions/etc).
Have you ever tried learning a new language? It's hard. It's frustrating, it takes a lot of effort. I'm not use to learning another language, or anything with that amount of content. It's easier to not learn it, obviously. (Trying to learn Spanish... it's challenging)
If you've never experienced losing weight, you've never read any articles/studies, literally have had no exposure to it - its' going to be a massive undertaking to gain the knowledge you need to be successful.0 -
kommodevaran wrote: »
But how do we know what we want, when we don't know what it's like? My current habits were very easy once I started. I also had more energy once I started to eat better and stopped hunting for and hiding candy. But I didn't know that. Things I enjoy now, snd do effortlessly - for instance, eating regularly, cooking from scratch, planning meals, freezing and thawing, using a food scale, cutting up melons and pineapples - seemed crazy, outdated, too much work, pointless! I was so against it, I actually remember thinking, "I'd rather be fat!".STLBADGIRL wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »
I agree, but overcomplicating isn't making things easier? Lots of people put in enormous effort to stay on the most hopeless diet and exercise regimens. I did too. Eating food I like, just a little less, and walking, is easy, not just simple!quiksylver296 wrote: »It's simple, but not easy. People want easy.
It's not easy when its not what you want to do or accustomed to doing. Just saying.
We are our own worst enemy...
Every now and then, when I go over my calorie goals to have an extra slice of pizza or cake, that I didn't really need b/c I'm already full - while I don't punish myself the next day... I always regret it. In that moment, my brain is like "dude - focus on the future, stop with this instant gratification crap" It's hard to look at a year from now. It takes a conscious effort in the moment to override your need for instant gratification.6 -
STLBADGIRL wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »
I agree, but overcomplicating isn't making things easier? Lots of people put in enormous effort to stay on the most hopeless diet and exercise regimens. I did too. Eating food I like, just a little less, and walking, is easy, not just simple!quiksylver296 wrote: »It's simple, but not easy. People want easy.
It's not easy when its not what you want to do or accustomed to doing. Just saying.
But almost all high-payoff personal growth is like that. Yet after I make one uncomfortable major change for the better, future ones become easier. Life improvement accelerates, potentially.
I suspect - based on personal stories I've read here - that for some, successful weight loss turns out to be a "gateway drug" leading to other significant life improvements.
(It was not that for me. Become an athlete in my 40s kind of was, and one of the things it led to - 10+ years later - was weight loss).
I typically use the financial analogy, but knowledge/degrees also fits well. The goal of academia is not a quest of degrees, but a system of intellectual development and improvement. Similar to weight management or any endeavor it eventually is distilled to a simple "Study more".
It is absurd to believe that a person is educated after reading a book or completing a course. Why would anyone believe that weight is managed after competing a diet? The key is learning throughout the experience, developing habits that promote your end goal, and removing habits hurting your goals.
I agree - success is contagious. It is inspiring to see what someone does after completing a difficult task and how this impacts other areas in their lives.
I've been reading Jordan Peterson lately and he talks extensively about this - how the last thing you want to be looking back is "harmless". Harmless being someone who never dared to fail, never reaching beyond your borders.3 -
STLBADGIRL wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »
I agree, but overcomplicating isn't making things easier? Lots of people put in enormous effort to stay on the most hopeless diet and exercise regimens. I did too. Eating food I like, just a little less, and walking, is easy, not just simple!quiksylver296 wrote: »It's simple, but not easy. People want easy.
It's not easy when its not what you want to do or accustomed to doing. Just saying.
But almost all high-payoff personal growth is like that. Yet after I make one uncomfortable major change for the better, future ones become easier. Life improvement accelerates, potentially.
I suspect - based on personal stories I've read here - that for some, successful weight loss turns out to be a "gateway drug" leading to other significant life improvements.
(It was not that for me. Become an athlete in my 40s kind of was, and one of the things it led to - 10+ years later - was weight loss).
I typically use the financial analogy, but knowledge/degrees also fits well. The goal of academia is not a quest of degrees, but a system of intellectual development and improvement. Similar to weight management or any endeavor it eventually is distilled to a simple "Study more".
It is absurd to believe that a person is educated after reading a book or completing a course. Why would anyone believe that weight is managed after competing a diet? The key is learning throughout the experience, developing habits that promote your end goal, and removing habits hurting your goals.
I agree - success is contagious. It is inspiring to see what someone does after completing a difficult task and how this impacts other areas in their lives.
I've been reading Jordan Peterson lately and he talks extensively about this - how the last thing you want to be looking back is "harmless". Harmless being someone who never dared to fail, never reaching beyond your borders.
You're the second person I've seen reference Peterson today and I was intrigued so I looked him up. Are you reading his newest book ("12 Rules for Life") or is there something in particular you recommend?1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »
I agree, but overcomplicating isn't making things easier? Lots of people put in enormous effort to stay on the most hopeless diet and exercise regimens. I did too. Eating food I like, just a little less, and walking, is easy, not just simple!quiksylver296 wrote: »It's simple, but not easy. People want easy.
It's not easy when its not what you want to do or accustomed to doing. Just saying.
But almost all high-payoff personal growth is like that. Yet after I make one uncomfortable major change for the better, future ones become easier. Life improvement accelerates, potentially.
I suspect - based on personal stories I've read here - that for some, successful weight loss turns out to be a "gateway drug" leading to other significant life improvements.
(It was not that for me. Become an athlete in my 40s kind of was, and one of the things it led to - 10+ years later - was weight loss).
I typically use the financial analogy, but knowledge/degrees also fits well. The goal of academia is not a quest of degrees, but a system of intellectual development and improvement. Similar to weight management or any endeavor it eventually is distilled to a simple "Study more".
It is absurd to believe that a person is educated after reading a book or completing a course. Why would anyone believe that weight is managed after competing a diet? The key is learning throughout the experience, developing habits that promote your end goal, and removing habits hurting your goals.
I agree - success is contagious. It is inspiring to see what someone does after completing a difficult task and how this impacts other areas in their lives.
I've been reading Jordan Peterson lately and he talks extensively about this - how the last thing you want to be looking back is "harmless". Harmless being someone who never dared to fail, never reaching beyond your borders.
You're the second person I've seen reference Peterson today and I was intrigued so I looked him up. Are you reading his newest book ("12 Rules for Life") or is there something in particular you recommend?
I really enjoy him as he frames all his views with multiple references as to why he believes what he believes.
I bought his "12 Rules for Life" and reading through this very carefully - reading this along with my wife and kids and we discuss the bullet points in the book.1 -
I think most people, smart or otherwise, want fitness to be really exciting and compelling. Counting calories is just too drab, so it is more interesting to go on some bizarre fad diet or cleanse ("I"m eating nothing but kale, maple syrup and apple cider vinegar for 2 weeks!") or crazy exercise program ("I ran my first 5k, now I'm training for an ultramarathon!"). Sensibly reducing calories consistently over a long period of time and trying to burn a few hundred calories several times a week to make it more manageable is just not very drastic or sexy and it isn't a quick fix, so it doesn't resonate with a lot of people.10
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janejellyroll wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »
I agree, but overcomplicating isn't making things easier? Lots of people put in enormous effort to stay on the most hopeless diet and exercise regimens. I did too. Eating food I like, just a little less, and walking, is easy, not just simple!quiksylver296 wrote: »It's simple, but not easy. People want easy.
It's not easy when its not what you want to do or accustomed to doing. Just saying.
But almost all high-payoff personal growth is like that. Yet after I make one uncomfortable major change for the better, future ones become easier. Life improvement accelerates, potentially.
I suspect - based on personal stories I've read here - that for some, successful weight loss turns out to be a "gateway drug" leading to other significant life improvements.
(It was not that for me. Become an athlete in my 40s kind of was, and one of the things it led to - 10+ years later - was weight loss).
I typically use the financial analogy, but knowledge/degrees also fits well. The goal of academia is not a quest of degrees, but a system of intellectual development and improvement. Similar to weight management or any endeavor it eventually is distilled to a simple "Study more".
It is absurd to believe that a person is educated after reading a book or completing a course. Why would anyone believe that weight is managed after competing a diet? The key is learning throughout the experience, developing habits that promote your end goal, and removing habits hurting your goals.
I agree - success is contagious. It is inspiring to see what someone does after completing a difficult task and how this impacts other areas in their lives.
I've been reading Jordan Peterson lately and he talks extensively about this - how the last thing you want to be looking back is "harmless". Harmless being someone who never dared to fail, never reaching beyond your borders.
You're the second person I've seen reference Peterson today and I was intrigued so I looked him up. Are you reading his newest book ("12 Rules for Life") or is there something in particular you recommend?
I really enjoy him as he frames all his views with multiple references as to why he believes what he believes.
I bought his "12 Rules for Life" and reading through this very carefully - reading this along with my wife and kids and we discuss the bullet points in the book.
Thanks, I think I'll check it out.1 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »I think most people, smart or otherwise, want fitness to be really exciting and compelling. Counting calories is just too drab, so it is more interesting to go on some bizarre fad diet or cleanse ("I"m eating nothing but kale, maple syrup and apple cider vinegar for 2 weeks!") or crazy exercise program ("I ran my first 5k, now I'm training for an ultramarathon!"). Sensibly reducing calories consistently over a long period of time and trying to burn a few hundred calories several times a week to make it more manageable is just not very drastic or sexy and it isn't a quick fix, so it doesn't resonate with a lot of people.
I think there is a lot of truth in this. It's the monotony of it. The day to day chore of it. The knowing it's going to take a long time to get there and even longer to stay there.2 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »I think most people, smart or otherwise, want fitness to be really exciting and compelling. Counting calories is just too drab, so it is more interesting to go on some bizarre fad diet or cleanse ("I"m eating nothing but kale, maple syrup and apple cider vinegar for 2 weeks!") or crazy exercise program ("I ran my first 5k, now I'm training for an ultramarathon!"). Sensibly reducing calories consistently over a long period of time and trying to burn a few hundred calories several times a week to make it more manageable is just not very drastic or sexy and it isn't a quick fix, so it doesn't resonate with a lot of people.
Not to mention the prevalent mentality that one must suffer and deprive/punish themselves to lose weight, and that anything short of that won't work. Brought to you by the diet industry, which, of course, markets plenty of "supplements" to alleviate that suffering and deprivation.5 -
I'm not sure if it's a matter of too smart but I definitely see a lot of too impatient out there.
Going into this, everyone does the simple thing of logging and staying under their cals. And it works great for a week, two weeks, maybe a month. We've all had that initial quick drop. And then it slows down, there are weeks without any change on the scale or even some when our weight goes up.
And that's when people start making things complicated. I think every single one of us has at least at one point in their journey thought "But what if I am the person for whom it doesn't work?" And that's stupid because there's not a single person in the world for whom it works the way we think it should work (aka consistently dropping pound after pound). And yet we think we're that special snowflake who doesn't use weight with CICO, who needs to watch this and that macro, who needs to follow a certain diet, who needs this and that gadget to help them.
However, I'm not sure that's always a bad thing because it makes us feel like we're actively doing something to improve ourselves and keeps us motivated. It can be too much and that can become discouraging but often it also just helps us to get through weeks of frustration.2 -
I agree. Most people complicate things because they want easy and fast including me during certain times in my life.2
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iamunicoon wrote: »I'm not sure if it's a matter of too smart but I definitely see a lot of too impatient out there.
Going into this, everyone does the simple thing of logging and staying under their cals. And it works great for a week, two weeks, maybe a month. We've all had that initial quick drop. And then it slows down, there are weeks without any change on the scale or even some when our weight goes up.
And that's when people start making things complicated. I think every single one of us has at least at one point in their journey thought "But what if I am the person for whom it doesn't work?" And that's stupid because there's not a single person in the world for whom it works the way we think it should work (aka consistently dropping pound after pound). And yet we think we're that special snowflake who doesn't use weight with CICO, who needs to watch this and that macro, who needs to follow a certain diet, who needs this and that gadget to help them.
However, I'm not sure that's always a bad thing because it makes us feel like we're actively doing something to improve ourselves and keeps us motivated. It can be too much and that can become discouraging but often it also just helps us to get through weeks of frustration.
I'll confess to thinking like this. It was this mindset that held me back for years. Despite being trained against such nonsense.
Note this is why there is only the textbook: Molecular Biology, Human Physiology, etc. and not Carl's Molecular Biology, Bernadette's Molecular Biology, etc.
There are several innovations that provide instant gratification, but weight management is not one of them.
5 -
I have to say a thing or two about over thinking. First off, I did fall for the BS of certain guru's selling non scientific ideas when I was losing weight. CARBS ARE EVIL such things. Made me afraid to eat bread for a year! It wasn't until I started having some medical issues ,due to massive weight loss and starving myself, that I started reading studies with metabolism and weight. Reading some really depressing studies on long term weight maintenance actually helped (hopefully) get me ready for a lifetime of living differently. It started me reading blogs and post about people who are trying to maintain weight loss. I had no clue about the need to weigh and measure food. That the body slows down with Weight loss. Thanks to the studies by Libel, I now understand why many of the people I saw lose a lot, well weight in general tended to put it back on. Sometimes very rapidly. I am one of the people who came late to the game as far as preparing for maintenance. I also now question most new studies until they have been replicated. I hope to keep learning from professional researchers and private ones like people on these forums. I await the woo's lol.2
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STLBADGIRL wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »
I agree, but overcomplicating isn't making things easier? Lots of people put in enormous effort to stay on the most hopeless diet and exercise regimens. I did too. Eating food I like, just a little less, and walking, is easy, not just simple!quiksylver296 wrote: »It's simple, but not easy. People want easy.
It's not easy when its not what you want to do or accustomed to doing. Just saying.
It's all about priorities.1 -
I think, for some people, part of it is honestly more about dispelling the social implications of being overweight/out of shape than it is about the actual weight loss.
There are some overweight people who start wanting to lose weight more because of the negative stereotypes about overweight people (gluttonous, lazy, no will power, no self-control, no self-respect) and not as much by the actual weight. People want to do something drastic and obvious to show to everyone else that they're not the stereotype - that they're dedicated and have incredible will power, that they're changing their lives -- even though most of that has very little to do with successful long term weight loss, if you ask me.
If you take the moderate approach and just try to shave a few hundreds calories off here and there every week, how is everyone going to know how committed you are to this goal? Why do people talk non-stop about their diets to people who definitely don't care? Why on earth do people brag about crash dieting? I don't think people do this consciously, but it's definitely something they do. The first time I lost 40 lbs, people were 1) surprised because they didn't know I was trying to lose weight, they actually were concerned that I was sick and 2) definitely seemed to be a little disappointed when I told them that it was just eat a little less than normal and exercise a bit more for several months. I didn't change what I ate or the types of exercise I normally do, just the amounts by a small margin. It's a game of patience and yes, a little persistence, but nothing superhuman.8 -
Time to pick up this thread again
Internet, quick diets and stupidity. and Coworkers baffled me... lead my fingertips to google [magical thinking about weight loss] and I found EXPANDING THE REALM OF POSSIBILITY: MAGICAL THINKING AND CONSUMER COPING, a doctoral thesis that goes a bit over my head in some places, but really explains a lot and confirms many of my suspicions. I read about the paradoxes, the juxtaposition between being in control and not being in control, the threat of factors like genetics and metabolism, the moral attribution of foods, the need for making up for eating pleasurable food, the fear of pleasure, the need for rewards for suffering or even thinking about controlling food intake. I think it's a good read.
Oh, and thanks to everyone who has contributed so far, nice to see the subject is engaging, and to read all the clever comments, all appreciated.5 -
I'm with the people who point to the will not being there despite having the knowledge, and I'm seeing this play out right in front of my eyes.
My sister is a classic example. She knows she needs to lose weight. She'd like to lose weight. She knows reducing her intake and perhaps moving more would help. But until she gets to the point where she either has to change her lifestyle or die or has some other crisis moment that will give her the impetus she needs to actually put in the work to change, she's not going to succeed.
For instance: this week, she asked me to help her start calorie counting, so I did. It's 5 days out and she's falling off the wagon. She's making excuses - "the app is too hard", "calorie counting is too time consuming", I'm always hungry!", and "I'll just cut back; I don't need to track, I'll just eat less!" I try to gently encourage her to keep going, that the first few days are the hardest but she'll find her routine, to cheer her on and tell her I'm proud of her for trying, but she's already starting down the hiding what she's eating, making excuses like "I'll just get started tomorrow" and such. When I told her that being able to breath better and move better will be worth it all, she disagreed and said it wasn't.
And that's the issue right there - she's weighing her options of staying obese with health issues but be able to eat whatever she wants whenever she wants vs reigning her desires in and being vigilant and working on eating less and moving more, and she's decided already that the future results to be obtained aren't worth the effort it takes to get there and she'd rather have the instant gratification now. Unfortunately, it works more like a credit card instead of a IRA - she's spending big time now, but will have to pay for it later.
She wants to blame genetics, her metabolism, her body - anything she can to excuse why she can't lose weight other than she simply doesn't want to put forth the effort it takes to do it. She wants a quick fix, some magic pill or drink that will reduce her appetite and melt the weight off instantly without her having to change how she eats, what she eats, and her daily routine.
I agree that it really doesn't have anything to do with education or intelligence. Yes, a lot of people simply don't know better because of the amount of misinformation out there. But informing yourself is only the opening salvo in the war with ourselves to do what we know we need to do but that we really don't want to do. I know that was my case for years: I knew what I needed to do to lose weight, but kept losing the battle with the part of myself that really didn't want to put out the effort or change. And I fight this battle in many other areas of my life where I know I need to improve or change.
I don't know what the crisis point for me was, really - I had some major changes in my life at the time I started trying once again, but for some reason (the Grace of God most likely) this time actually stuck and I didn't lose my momentum like I had so many times in the past, but I'm also still pretty leery because I know I've been down this road before and have been mired down and I really don't want to lose ground anymore!
I think the problem of willpower is the same for pretty much all of us, but the answer to how to win that battle is very individualistic. There are so many tools and people available to help us lose weight and to encourage us in our efforts, but those tools and helpful folks can't wage that mental, internal war for us; we have to win that battle on our own.8 -
I think people sometimes want it to be hard because it gives them an excuse not to do it.5
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jennifer_417 wrote: »I think people sometimes want it to be hard because it gives them an excuse not to do it.
100%1 -
It's not just counting calories and recording them. Its dividing up the calories into the best proportions, ie: carbs, fats, proteins, etc.
A 1500 calorie a day diet wont do squat if its mainly carbs and fats.
Moderation, and proportions. It really does work..
10 -
You don't have to find a "best" macro split. MFP's default has 20% protein, and that works for lots of people.It's not just counting calories and recording them. Its dividing up the calories into the best proportions, ie: carbs, fats, proteins, etc.
A 1500 calorie a day diet wont do squat if its mainly carbs and fats.
What do you mean by "A 1500 calorie a day diet wont do squat [...]"?
Yes, it does.Moderation, and proportions. It really does work..2 -
People want promises that if they do "A", they will lose ungodly amounts quick and it will stay off.
CICO isn't sexy. It requires work. It requires sacrifice. It requires a great amount of time. "Magic" requires money and beliefs that it will work for them. People think that spending money on something will work better something that's free. They have something else to blame if it doesn't work. If CICO doesn't work, it usually means you are eating more than you think. And you are are blame.
A friend of my Mom's who had success on MFP for a short period of time (I think she lost 20lbs then went on vacation). She quit it, the weight came back. It was about 3 years ago. She started Nutrisystem this week because she feels if she pays for something and eats prepackaged food, it will be less work (easy) and not require sacrifice. But her one main love is socializing. Eating out. So, instead of eating food she likes, just less of it, she's willing to give up her "fun". So, I see it crashing and burning and her gaining more in the process. I want it to work for her, because she needs it. But she's the #1 example of why "magic" doesn't work.1
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