Short gaining cycles while slow cutting?

ShayAllenHill
ShayAllenHill Posts: 64 Member
in Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
I set an arbitrary goal to hit 13% bf in the "bod pod" air displacement machine.

Started two weeks ago at 185.6 / 21.4 with a 1k calorie deficit (2 lbs per week).

After two weeks, I'm about 4 lbs down at 182.2 / 20.5

That's almost a 1:1 lean-to-fat-loss ratio, so I've increased my calories to a 500 deficit, hoping for a much better ratio.

Even so, extrapolating this down to 13% doesn't look good. I've only got 145 lbs lean mass at 6'. I can live with that if I keep almost all of it. Relying on push-ups and kettlebells for strength through April (remodeling the house).

I'm considering some intermittent 500+ weeks to spare and maybe gain back a little lean mass. Any suggestions for timing of these mini "bulking" cycles?

Replies

  • Davidsdottir
    Davidsdottir Posts: 1,285 Member
    edited February 2018
    As your goal is arbitrary, why not lift weights abs maintain a 250-500 cal deficit to minimize muscle loss?
  • ShayAllenHill
    ShayAllenHill Posts: 64 Member
    Davidsdottir wrote: »
    As your goal is arbitrary, why not lift weights abs maintain a 250-500 cal deficit to minimize muscle loss?

    That's what I'm doing now. At 500 deficit as of yesterday. Will shift to 250 if I see a poor lean:fat loss ratio.

    But I'm setting a floor for lean mass (140), and I'm asking about a plan for what to do when I hit it. I know from experience that (due to water retention) my measured lean mass will increase "overnight" when I shift to a calorie surplus. So I'm trying to identify a minimum interval for:
    1. an expected ACTUAL lean mass increase of 1 lb or so
    2. whatever metabolic benefits might come with an interval of +500.

    If I have to go with "guess and check," I'll try three weeks.
  • trigden1991
    trigden1991 Posts: 4,658 Member
    What is your bodyfat now?

    Short "bulks" are not really worthwhile as you can't get an meaningful amount of tissue in that kind of time period. Instead take diet breaks when you need them and cut down to your goal.

    If your deficit is not ridiculous, you lift progressively and get adequate protein, you are unlikely to lose too much muscle.
  • ShayAllenHill
    ShayAllenHill Posts: 64 Member
    trigden1991 wrote: »
    What is your bodyfat now?

    Short "bulks" are not really worthwhile as you can't get an meaningful amount of tissue in that kind of time period. Instead take diet breaks when you need them and cut down to your goal.

    If your deficit is not ridiculous, you lift progressively and get adequate protein, you are unlikely to lose too much muscle.

    Bodyfat now is 20.5% @ 182.2 lbs. on my home scale. 44 y/o

    A 1:3 lean:fat loss ratio would give me my 13% at around 160. I'll watch closely and try to land there with a direct approach.

  • not_a_runner
    not_a_runner Posts: 1,343 Member
    trigden1991 wrote: »
    What is your bodyfat now?

    Short "bulks" are not really worthwhile as you can't get an meaningful amount of tissue in that kind of time period. Instead take diet breaks when you need them and cut down to your goal.

    If your deficit is not ridiculous, you lift progressively and get adequate protein, you are unlikely to lose too much muscle.

    This


    If you're getting those body fat numbers from a home scale, they are inaccurate anyhow. And you're over thinking it.
  • trigden1991
    trigden1991 Posts: 4,658 Member
    ShayAllenHill wrote: »
    trigden1991 wrote: »
    What is your bodyfat now?

    Short "bulks" are not really worthwhile as you can't get an meaningful amount of tissue in that kind of time period. Instead take diet breaks when you need them and cut down to your goal.

    If your deficit is not ridiculous, you lift progressively and get adequate protein, you are unlikely to lose too much muscle.

    Bodyfat now is 20.5% @ 182.2 lbs. on my home scale. 44 y/o

    A 1:3 lean:fat loss ratio would give me my 13% at around 160. I'll watch closely and try to land there with a direct approach.

    Being realistic you’re probably 4-6 months away from hitting your goal. Keep reassessing after each 6-8 week period to see how you’re looking and if you think your LBM is dropping.
  • Erik8484
    Erik8484 Posts: 458 Member
    ShayAllenHill wrote: »
    I set an arbitrary goal to hit 13% bf in the "bod pod" air displacement machine.

    Started two weeks ago at 185.6 / 21.4 with a 1k calorie deficit (2 lbs per week).

    After two weeks, I'm about 4 lbs down at 182.2 / 20.5

    That's almost a 1:1 lean-to-fat-loss ratio, so I've increased my calories to a 500 deficit, hoping for a much better ratio.

    Even so, extrapolating this down to 13% doesn't look good. I've only got 145 lbs lean mass at 6'. I can live with that if I keep almost all of it. Relying on push-ups and kettlebells for strength through April (remodeling the house).

    I'm considering some intermittent 500+ weeks to spare and maybe gain back a little lean mass. Any suggestions for timing of these mini "bulking" cycles?

    I hate body fat measuring devices. They're not "accurate" in an individual sense,* and even the direction of progress that they imply (i.e. an increasing or decreasing bf%) can be misleading, particularly if you use BodPod#1 for your first measurement and BodPod#2 for the next. The direction of progress that you would get from a BodPod for the first measurement and your scales for the next would, in my opinion, be less than worthless. Even if you use the exact same device every time, they're influenced by things like when you last ate, your level of hydration and when you last trained, and can give the disheartening impression that you've lost LBM or gotten fatter when you haven't.

    In my opinion, you will be a lot happier if you:
    (a) follow common cutting advice (high protein intake, small deficit, heavy weights);
    (b) are patient; and
    (c) completely ignore those random number generators masquerading as science.

    If you still want to use a body fat measuring device, be consistent with the device that you use, and never place any weight on any single estimate. 2 data points don't make a trend.

    *They can accurately measure body fat for large sample sizes. This is because they'll overstate for some, understate for others, and it'll all average out over a large enough population.

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