Staying within calories while eating appropriately for increased distances
blairf83
Posts: 33 Member
34, lost my thyroid to cancer a couple years ago so staying calorie restricted is kind of my life now. Ran my first 10 mile and trail half marathons last year then had a breast reduction in December and was off all exercise but walking for 2 months, and couldn't run comfortably for another month and change. So I've started back from the beginning (mostly) with the goal of a full marathon and my first ultra.....
I know if I stay at 1200 calories, and eat back no more than half of what it is calculated that I burn, I will lose weight. i may be crabby and hate the entire world, but it works.
The issue I'm having is this: Sometimes I have no idea what I'm going to end up doing. I might plan a quick 2 mile run, and stretch it out to 5 because I feel good. Obviously the calories burned between the two is pretty significant and if I do this in the evening, thats a significant amount of calories to suddenly need to consume, and carbs are the fastest easiest way to do that. (endocrinologist has instructed me to limit carbs to make it easier for me to keep my weight in control)
My bigger concern is if my "eat back half the calories you burned" rule is going to be a bad policy as the miles go up..... its one thing to burn 250 calories and not eat 125 of them..... but on those days when the calorie burn goes up to 1200 or more.... 600 calories is a HUGE amount to leave hanging out there.... I don't want to end up unhealthy and my body quitting on me because I'm not fueling it. But I also don't want to totally sabotage my weight loss efforts.
Anybody have a strategy that is working for them?
I know if I stay at 1200 calories, and eat back no more than half of what it is calculated that I burn, I will lose weight. i may be crabby and hate the entire world, but it works.
The issue I'm having is this: Sometimes I have no idea what I'm going to end up doing. I might plan a quick 2 mile run, and stretch it out to 5 because I feel good. Obviously the calories burned between the two is pretty significant and if I do this in the evening, thats a significant amount of calories to suddenly need to consume, and carbs are the fastest easiest way to do that. (endocrinologist has instructed me to limit carbs to make it easier for me to keep my weight in control)
My bigger concern is if my "eat back half the calories you burned" rule is going to be a bad policy as the miles go up..... its one thing to burn 250 calories and not eat 125 of them..... but on those days when the calorie burn goes up to 1200 or more.... 600 calories is a HUGE amount to leave hanging out there.... I don't want to end up unhealthy and my body quitting on me because I'm not fueling it. But I also don't want to totally sabotage my weight loss efforts.
Anybody have a strategy that is working for them?
2
Replies
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Running is fairly easy to calculate accurately so you can eat them all back.
What are your stats that you can only eat 1200 cals?0 -
I've been wondering about this too. I get my workout in when I can, and some days I burn a lot more calories than others. I'm not sure if I need to "up" my intake or just stick with what i'm doing so that i'm not craving those bigger meals on days i'm unable to work out.1
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My strategy (for weight loss and long term maintenance) was to put some effort into making my exercise estimates reasonable and eat back 100% of them. It's worked very well despite a very varied and high exercise volume.
But I don't feel constrained to "balance the books" daily which helps when plans change.
I've never agreed with deliberately skewing exercise calorie estimates by a seemingly random number based on folklore to try and compensate for either food logging inaccuracy or just simply using inaccurate methods to get those estimates.
If both your CI and CO estimates are both reasonable and consistent and you adjust your overall goal based on actual trends then the requirement for guessing how much to adjust goes away.
For endurance cardio you do need to fuel appropriately - that need will just intensify as your mileage increases.
PS - Congrats on your recovery and your ambition.
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Running is easy to calculate.
.63 x BW x Distance...and you can eat all of them
Also, I don't run, but I do train for distance cycling events...I typically follow a training protocol when I'm training for distance rather than just doing X because I feel good in the moment. So I know on this day I'll be doing X miles and on that day I'll be doing Y miles and on this day I'll be doing hill repeats, etc.
Have a plan.4 -
5'6", 215 lbs. Inherently sluggish metabolism made worse by the loss of my thyroid two years ago, followed by a hysterectomy. Im also not the world's fastest runner due to 3/4 of my back being fused. I do the miles, but I'm not lighting the world on fire by any stretch of the imagination. I don't want to adjust my baseline calories for the day up because I work a desk job and then I have days where I'm a total slug and do nothing after work.1
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5'6", 215 lbs. Inherently sluggish metabolism made worse by the loss of my thyroid two years ago, followed by a hysterectomy. Im also not the world's fastest runner due to 3/4 of my back being fused. I do the miles, but I'm not lighting the world on fire by any stretch of the imagination. I don't want to adjust my baseline calories for the day up because I work a desk job and then I have days where I'm a total slug and do nothing after work.
1200 cals sounds very low for your weight, have you tried eating more?
The above calculation will give you accurate cals.
I find when my long runs get over 10 miles i can't hold a deficit because of the runger, but until you get to that stage (if you do) you can sustain 200-300 cal deficit and still lose.
Also, look at your weekly goal not daily. You don't have to eat back exercise cals the same day if you don't want to.4 -
5'6", 215 lbs. Inherently sluggish metabolism made worse by the loss of my thyroid two years ago, followed by a hysterectomy. Im also not the world's fastest runner due to 3/4 of my back being fused. I do the miles, but I'm not lighting the world on fire by any stretch of the imagination. I don't want to adjust my baseline calories for the day up because I work a desk job and then I have days where I'm a total slug and do nothing after work.
Your speed isn't an issue for calorie estimates as it's best based on distance not pace.3 -
Thanks! I'm gonna not sweat eating most of my calories back once I'm working a bit harder.2
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Do you wear a chest strap HRM? If I set up my garmin device with accurate height, weight, age stats and wear an HRM I feel pretty good about relying on the burn as an average. I will eat back some depending on appetite but not feel obligated to cram them in. Be sure you're fueling to get the quality into your runs and then put back quality protein and quality carbs afterward and don't get too hung up on a specific % would be my approach.0
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I don't run, but if you are freling good before and during the run, can't you add the extra calories after? Maybe have a post run snack set up, so if you need it, great. If not, save it for later?
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Your speed isn't an issue for calorie estimates as it's best based on distance not pace.cwolfman13 wrote: »Running is easy to calculate.
.63 x BW x Distance...and you can eat all of them...
Can someone explain this? I'm having trouble understanding that my 3.5mph run would be equivalent to someone else's 8mph run of the same distance. Is it just that they would finish faster?0 -
Momepro- the issue I'm having is that my calorie burns are bigger than a snack will take care of. At times they're half again or more of my sedentary allowance. Like today..... 4.5 mile run plus a half hour of strength training afterward. I treated myself to a late breakfast of pancakes topped with fruit, and came out of the gym having burned off all those calories and more..... I had a relatively splurgey dinner, plan a BIG protein shake in a bit, and if I eat back all my calories, I still have to figure out how to put 300 more calories down my gullet....
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Your speed isn't an issue for calorie estimates as it's best based on distance not pace.cwolfman13 wrote: »Running is easy to calculate.
.63 x BW x Distance...and you can eat all of them...
Can someone explain this? I'm having trouble understanding that my 3.5mph run would be equivalent to someone else's 8mph run of the same distance. Is it just that they would finish faster?
@xLyric
Basically calorie burns (energy remember) are to do with moving mass over distance rather than the speed at which you move the mass. So a brisk 3 mile run and a steady 3 mile run are going to be pretty close in terms of calories. The faster runner is burning at a higher rate but for a shorter time.
At the outer extremes of pace (very, very slow or remarkably fast) then the formula can become less accurate as running efficiency changes - but probably not as unpredictable as alternative methods such as using heart rate as a proxy for oxygen uptake, which has huge individual variance.
Thing to remember you are aiming for reasonably accurate and consistent.7 -
I had a similar struggle whilst trying to cut but maintain endurance training. I’d often hit a big calorie burn but late at night when you’re not then going to eat a massive meal before bed. I think you have to get your head around the fact that MFP runs in 24hr days set from midnight, but you’d body does not. So if you have extra calories going spare when you went to bed, and you wake up hungry the next morning, don’t be afraid to eat a bigger breakfast even if it pushes that days number into the red as essentially you’re still refuelling from yesterday. I often found I was super hungry the next day after a long workout and if that was a rest day then it’s tough to satisfy your hunger AND meet your numbers.
It’s hard to get your mind around and trickier to manage but hopefully you understand my logic.5 -
Momepro- the issue I'm having is that my calorie burns are bigger than a snack will take care of. At times they're half again or more of my sedentary allowance. Like today..... 4.5 mile run plus a half hour of strength training afterward. I treated myself to a late breakfast of pancakes topped with fruit, and came out of the gym having burned off all those calories and more..... I had a relatively splurgey dinner, plan a BIG protein shake in a bit, and if I eat back all my calories, I still have to figure out how to put 300 more calories down my gullet....
Eat them tomorrow, or, peanut butter4 -
I eat back all my walking and running calories, since they are pretty easy to compute. If I am not hungry enough after a run to eat all my calories, I know that the next day I will be hungry and they will get eaten. On a day I run 20 miles, unless I eat out, I generally won't eat all the calories I've burned. But the next day, my furnace will still be hot, and I'll be starving. It's nice to be able to eat when I'm hungry. Think of it as a weekly bank of calories, not a daily one.5
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I don't have advice for you, haven't run a race longer than 10k (yet!) but huge kudos for your determination and power of will, doing this huge comeback!2
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Unfortunately, weight loss and performance training are somewhat at odds with each other. You've really got to choose a priority.
That said, you've got to eat back all of your calories for serious endurance training. Your body is simply going to need it and you won't perform well otherwise. The runger is real.
No need to try and match your fueling specifically to individual runs. It's totally OK to eat to your weekly averages, or just to eat more when your body tells you to eat more. I tend to do the latter. My weekly mileage averages about 25-30 per week. While I'm technically at maintenance, some days I'll eat totally normally and other days I'll eat like food is going out of fashion regardless of my daily running schedule.
Another thing to consider...I've yet to meet anybody who regularly runs relatively significant weekly distances (e.g., more than 15-20 miles per week) who really has to worry about weight. At a certain point in distance training, you just get to a place where it feels almost impossible to keep up with the amount of calories you're burning. If you're worried about burning 1200 calories per day (>12 mile run), then focus on fuel and not weight loss.0 -
Most likely you can eat more than 1200 calories to start. You're neither short nor elderly, so I would advise changing your calorie goals so that you can lose weight more slowly and be able to eat more.
You can also eat more than half of what you burn if your calorie calculations are pretty accurate. The posts above give you good formulas to use. The advice to eat only half is designed to compensate for inaccurate calorie burn calculations, not to give you a bigger calorie deficit. Your calorie deficit is already factored into your MFP calorie target and you don't need to create a bigger one.
I would just eat the extra exercise calories the next day if you run late in the evening and don't want to eat them. That seems easier than trying to fit in an extra few hundred calories before bed if you're not hungry enough for them. You can set MFP to show you weekly calorie targets rather than just daily.
It is absolutely untrue that you can't lose weight and train for endurance races. I did it. I started running at my highest weight of 215 lb, ran several 5k and 10k races, finished half marathon #1 at 142 lb, HM #2 at 128 lb, HM #3 at 120 lb, and HM #4 at my goal weight of 115 lb. Now training for HM #5. Yes, it absolutely can be done.2 -
It is absolutely untrue that you can't lose weight and train for endurance races. I did it. I started running at my highest weight of 215 lb, ran several 5k and 10k races, finished half marathon #1 at 142 lb, HM #2 at 128 lb, HM #3 at 120 lb, and HM #4 at my goal weight of 115 lb. Now training for HM #5. Yes, it absolutely can be done.
It's not that you can't lose weight while training to run distance, it's that you can't maximize either by trying to do both. In fact, many of us do inadvertently lose weight while training simply because we tend to eat to our energy needs and don't really think about explicitly matching our caloric intake to the increased output.1 -
IMO, I wouldn't go with the day-by-day routine, and instead figure out your average weekly exercise and activity level, average your calories out to each day, and eat closer to a similar amount each day.
Wildly skewing my intake day to day makes my stomach and mind go bonkers. It's much easier to plan my meals and everything else if I know about how much I'm eating every day.
If there are weeks where my activity drops significantly (for example, this week I had a cold and couldn't go the gym) I just skip breakfast and my morning "gym water mix" and that pretty much cuts out the calories I'm not burning by not working out (I choose this method because skipping breakfast is easier for me than making my other meals smaller, and my morning coffee sustains me if I'm not working out).1 -
Last year I had two half marathons and an international distance triathlon and I thought I would lose weight, but if I run 3 miles, my body wants to eat like I ran 15. Tracking has been important; so far I am on track this year despite distance training.
That said, if you are so hungry you're going to break into the forest preserve and run down a deer like I get sometimes, then you might have to give yourself a little cheat. I figure that even though I'm sometimes eating more at maintenance than loss mode, at least I'm helping my muscles recover by getting extra calories.0 -
HoneyBadger155 wrote: »IMO, I wouldn't go with the day-by-day routine, and instead figure out your average weekly exercise and activity level, average your calories out to each day, and eat closer to a similar amount each day.
Wildly skewing my intake day to day makes my stomach and mind go bonkers. It's much easier to plan my meals and everything else if I know about how much I'm eating every day.
If there are weeks where my activity drops significantly (for example, this week I had a cold and couldn't go the gym) I just skip breakfast and my morning "gym water mix" and that pretty much cuts out the calories I'm not burning by not working out (I choose this method because skipping breakfast is easier for me than making my other meals smaller, and my morning coffee sustains me if I'm not working out).
You can tell us the truth...is your 'gym water mix' really just bourbon?0 -
You can tell us the truth...is your 'gym water mix' really just bourbon?
LOL, I mean, it IS 5 o'clock when I'm at the gym, but I don't think my job would appreciate that too much
No, I just have a hydration mix (skratch labs) with some BCAA (since I can't stomach food first thing in the morning) in my 'gym water.' Not much, but still 100 calories I skip on non-workout days.2
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