Coworkers baffled me...
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My mom is the queen of the woo. She often tells me I obsess over calories when all I do is log them to keep my weight in check. She is always trying the latest and greatest fad diet. She called me yesterday to tell me about a segment she saw on "Dr Oz" that has got to be some of the worst woo I have ever heard. He said if you do a shot of the all magical ACV after eating a doughnut it will counter the effects of the doughnut (whatever that means) and "cause you not to absorb the calories or your blood sugar to spike". I don't think I said anything for a good 2 minutes because I was just so dumbfounded.
Not to mention when I was losing weight people never believed me that I ate grilled cheese for part of my lunch everyday for about a month because I liked it and could fit it into my calories.
Also, getting comments like "I know about calories but what is your SECRET?!" or "but you must be doing something else (other then calorie counting)". They just can't get around the fact that it IS that simple.14 -
My fellow student was complaining about how she can't eat after 7 pm because she gains weight if she does. My friend and I said 'well in the end it comes down to your calories, you could eat all of your maintenence before bed and it would work the same as before 7pm. Sometimes we have to do that if the day gets really busy.' and all she had to say was "thanks but I don't believe you two. You are already thin and have metabolisms of a gazelle. I can't take you guys seriously" like um, okay but that doesn't change the fact that the calories is all that matters???? I guess its easier for her to allow herself to eat whatever during the day and assume that she won't gain weight since it wasn't after the magical window.
You'd think that maybe she'd see how thin you are and instead figure that just maybe it meant you knew what you were talking about.
I have the same problem with my sister in law. She's always doing these fad diet things, usually low carb, making up all kinds of restrictions for herself that prevent her from eating most of her favorite foods. The fact that I lost a bunch of weight just by eating less and moving more, and have kept it off by continuing to regulate my intake, has made no impression at all. Because she's different.
Yeah! It is hard work and lots of exercise! It's a little rude to chalk it all up to us having high metabolisms naturally. I felt like screaming 'I walk around at work 8 hours a day, and days I have class i'm at the gym at 6:30 on the elliptical and doing deadlifts so MAYBE IT ISN'T JUST 'NATURAL'.7 -
Fitnessgirl0913 wrote: »My mom is the queen of the woo. She often tells me I obsess over calories when all I do is log them to keep my weight in check. She is always trying the latest and greatest fad diet. She called me yesterday to tell me about a segment she saw on "Dr Oz" that has got to be some of the worst woo I have ever heard. He said if you do a shot of the all magical ACV after eating a doughnut it will counter the effects of the doughnut (whatever that means) and "cause you not to absorb the calories or your blood sugar to spike". I don't think I said anything for a good 2 minutes because I was just so dumbfounded.
Not to mention when I was losing weight people never believed me that I ate grilled cheese for part of my lunch everyday for about a month because I liked it and could fit it into my calories.
Also, getting comments like "I know about calories but what is your SECRET?!" or "but you must be doing something else (other then calorie counting)". They just can't get around the fact that it IS that simple.
I cannot believe he is still on TV after spewing this constant nonsense. He must get paid really well by the diet industry (or whomever) to be able to spout this "advice" as a doctor and not let it bother his conscience. I mean, he HAS to know this stuff is flat out wrong!13 -
Co-workers do give some of the best woo.
Conversation the other day. Whilst it was a really nice acknowledgement of my weight loss, it also included a shining example of where I was just over a year ago when I thought about 'diets':
CW: You look great, we have all been asking, what is your secret?
Me: Thanks. [blush horribly/hate attention] I just eat less now.
CW: So like a mega strict diet?
Me: Nope, just a bit less of everything......
CW: I can't stop myself eating junk food......
Me: Actually I probably eat more chocolate now than I did a year ago, just a portion a day rather than a whole bar.
CW: You swim though right? Is it that that has helped?
Me: Nope, just eating less. I swam for years before I started counting calories and didn't lose.
CW: I couldn't do that!
*facepalm*16 -
MeanderingMammal wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »MostlyWater wrote: »People just don't know. It's not taught at school.
Sorry, don't buy this. I don't believe a normally functioning adult doesn't know that eating too much will make one fat.
They know that, but they probably have a fuzzier notion of what "too much" is. I once had to explain to my brother that he couldn't just burn off a whole family-sized bag of chips with a quick 20 minute run.
I believe it's pretty simple to identify when it's too much.
Like when your pants don't fit anymore in the waist.
Lagging indicator. By that time is already happened.
People aren't simple, they behave in perverse ways. That's why marketing is so effective, and the diet woo industry spend a lot on marketing.
Marketeers, third up against the wall come the day of the glorious revolution...
I don't know that I'd call one our near-universal cognitive biases perverse. We evolved for life on the African savanna, where cause and effect are usually connected in fairly immediate ways, and where we couldn't go too wrong by assuming they are even when they were not. It's therefore not so easy to grasp on the most basic level that your expanding waistline was caused by your eating habits of the past 2 or 3 decades. (Hell, during the Paleolithic we were lucky to even live that long.)
Since the long term is hard to see, we instinctively look for something more immediate instead. It's this or that specific food or nutrient -- or it's not us; it's our clothes or other people are wrong or something like that.
This is why, until we hit on a means to consistently correct for our cognitive biases (that is, science) human knowledge advanced very slowly, and we believed in magic, astrology, and all kinds of other nonsense.
I think I'm the last 50000 years we've made a few advances, particularly around how we deal with delayed gratification.
Essentially we all understand, in principle, cause and effect, but culturally it's easier to outsource responsibility. Supported by the volume of woo marketing, and limited critical abilities when faced with authority then it's too easy to find a complex approach that fails. We see it repeatedly in here, the number of special snowflakes for whom the laws of thermodynamics don't apply.
The long term is not that hard to see, but taking responsibility for that long term can be more of a challenge.4 -
I used to work with people who would do anything to lose weight except count calories for a moderate deficit and exercise. Every fad, woo, starvation diet they were all over, and, of course, never lost weight. They would ask the obese woman who lost and regained weight what to do, and when I asked them why they asked her and not me, they said "She knows how to lose weight. You're a normal size." I said "But she's still fat--do you not understand that what she tells you doesn't work long term? Why don't you get advice from someone who can maintain a normal weight?" Nope, didn't want to hear it.12
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100_PROOF_ wrote: »MostlyWater wrote: »People just don't know. It's not taught at school.
It's definitely taught in school. My kids did it in 6th and 7th grade health class.
They where given a pad of paper and told to write down their foods for the weekend and look up the USDA nutrition values associated with the food choices.
Then they where shown how many calories most people need in a day verse what most people consume.
My children go to a American public school and I could easily go ask for the lesson plan to prove that kids are taught this in school.
As a former principal of an American public elementary school, I can tell you that it is very hard to penetrate the culture of cupcakes and doughnuts for birthdays, even HALF birthdays. The few allowed parties were full of cookies to decorate .. cupcakes, candy, even soda! Luckily, the feds outlawed soda, so that was an easy fix.
We decided as a staff to cut it out. We had a huge push, with lessons and posters and healthy choice examples for recess and "special day" snacks. We had "Garden Parties" in our school garden with tasty treats from the vegetable garden to test taste. Then we put our foot down and said, "NO" to birthday treats (you can't imagine how many birthdays and half birthdays 32 students could have) Then our few parties became "Kindness Activities" and instead of decorating huge cookies, where the main purpose of the party was to scarf down snacks while creating a giant cookie snack, the purpose became whatever project the kids had chosen. .. like making dog blankets or letters to soldiers.
While it is great for students "learn about" healthy eating, but then if the school participates in regular opportunities to celebrate based on poor food choices, that is all pretty hollow. I did earn the title of "Cupcake Nazi" Of course, we still had treats, we just made them more about regular food and not desserts only. Small desert choice, large vegetable, and protein choices. I even changed the chocolate jar for the teachers to in-season lunchbox size fruits and once a week a little chocolate treat.
At the same time, we increased active lifestyle choices at recess, free time and after school .. but that is another side of the "Fit for Life" coin and a discussion for another day.
My daughter's school district also banned all outside food from school. You have no idea how much of a relief it was for the parents. No need to bake and frost cupcakes the day before a huge work deadline, and no more crappy food being shoved down my daughter's throat.19 -
I never eat the food provided at work. Even at full-day/all week conferences unless I'm allowed to request a special diet, I take my own (peanut butter sachets are wonderful, and I always scope out nearby grocery stores).
People would try to push cake/donuts etc on to me but they got tired of me saying no thanks. It's hard to argue with someone when they drop from a size 18 to a size 2.
On the other hand, eventually it has become more socially acceptable for others to bring their own instead of joining in to catered food, and I'm usually asked to book work dinners out because I'm-obviously-doing-something-right. LOL8 -
Fitnessgirl0913 wrote: »
Also, getting comments like "I know about calories but what is your SECRET?!" or "but you must be doing something else (other then calorie counting)". They just can't get around the fact that it IS that simple.
So much of this!! I volunteer with a very sweet, well meaning woman. But every single week we have this conversation:
Her: you're so thin now. I admire you
Me: thanks!
Her: so what's the secret?
Me: like I said before, eat less, move more. You should check out My fitness Pal. It's really helpful
Her: but what's the secret? Apple cider vinegar (insert new woo every week). I know you're hiding the tricks
Me: no secrets. Hard work and dedication. I would be happy to set you up on the app or go to the gym with you one day
Her: oh no. I like food too much and hate the gym...
Every. Single. Week. For 8 months now!
15 -
Fitnessmom82 wrote: »Fitnessgirl0913 wrote: »
Also, getting comments like "I know about calories but what is your SECRET?!" or "but you must be doing something else (other then calorie counting)". They just can't get around the fact that it IS that simple.
So much of this!! I volunteer with a very sweet, well meaning woman. But every single week we have this conversation:
Her: you're so thin now. I admire you
Me: thanks!
Her: so what's the secret?
Me: like I said before, eat less, move more. You should check out My fitness Pal. It's really helpful
Her: but what's the secret? Apple cider vinegar (insert new woo every week). I know you're hiding the tricks
Me: no secrets. Hard work and dedication. I would be happy to set you up on the app or go to the gym with one day
Her: oh no. I like food too much and hate the gym...
Every. Single. Week. For 8 months now!
Man, if I discovered a trick, I wouldn't hide it - I'd write a book and make a billion dollars.12 -
MegaMooseEsq wrote: »Fitnessmom82 wrote: »Fitnessgirl0913 wrote: »
Also, getting comments like "I know about calories but what is your SECRET?!" or "but you must be doing something else (other then calorie counting)". They just can't get around the fact that it IS that simple.
So much of this!! I volunteer with a very sweet, well meaning woman. But every single week we have this conversation:
Her: you're so thin now. I admire you
Me: thanks!
Her: so what's the secret?
Me: like I said before, eat less, move more. You should check out My fitness Pal. It's really helpful
Her: but what's the secret? Apple cider vinegar (insert new woo every week). I know you're hiding the tricks
Me: no secrets. Hard work and dedication. I would be happy to set you up on the app or go to the gym with one day
Her: oh no. I like food too much and hate the gym...
Every. Single. Week. For 8 months now!
Man, if I discovered a trick, I wouldn't hide it - I'd write a book and make a billion dollars.
Right?! If I had a magical solution I would be more than happy to sell it to you haha!3 -
100_PROOF_ wrote: »MostlyWater wrote: »People just don't know. It's not taught at school.
It's definitely taught in school. My kids did it in 6th and 7th grade health class.
They where given a pad of paper and told to write down their foods for the weekend and look up the USDA nutrition values associated with the food choices.
Then they where shown how many calories most people need in a day verse what most people consume.
My children go to a American public school and I could easily go ask for the lesson plan to prove that kids are taught this in school.
As a former principal of an American public elementary school, I can tell you that it is very hard to penetrate the culture of cupcakes and doughnuts for birthdays, even HALF birthdays. The few allowed parties were full of cookies to decorate .. cupcakes, candy, even soda! Luckily, the feds outlawed soda, so that was an easy fix.
We decided as a staff to cut it out. We had a huge push, with lessons and posters and healthy choice examples for recess and "special day" snacks. We had "Garden Parties" in our school garden with tasty treats from the vegetable garden to test taste. Then we put our foot down and said, "NO" to birthday treats (you can't imagine how many birthdays and half birthdays 32 students could have) Then our few parties became "Kindness Activities" and instead of decorating huge cookies, where the main purpose of the party was to scarf down snacks while creating a giant cookie snack, the purpose became whatever project the kids had chosen. .. like making dog blankets or letters to soldiers.
While it is great for students "learn about" healthy eating, but then if the school participates in regular opportunities to celebrate based on poor food choices, that is all pretty hollow. I did earn the title of "Cupcake Nazi" Of course, we still had treats, we just made them more about regular food and not desserts only. Small desert choice, large vegetable, and protein choices. I even changed the chocolate jar for the teachers to in-season lunchbox size fruits and once a week a little chocolate treat.
At the same time, we increased active lifestyle choices at recess, free time and after school .. but that is another side of the "Fit for Life" coin and a discussion for another day.
What the hell is a half birthday? And why would they celebrate it?7 -
It's the day you're X and a half years old. Mom threw them for me and my sisters. Once. When we were actually 6 months old.5
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100_PROOF_ wrote: »MostlyWater wrote: »People just don't know. It's not taught at school.
It's definitely taught in school. My kids did it in 6th and 7th grade health class.
They where given a pad of paper and told to write down their foods for the weekend and look up the USDA nutrition values associated with the food choices.
Then they where shown how many calories most people need in a day verse what most people consume.
My children go to a American public school and I could easily go ask for the lesson plan to prove that kids are taught this in school.
As a former principal of an American public elementary school, I can tell you that it is very hard to penetrate the culture of cupcakes and doughnuts for birthdays, even HALF birthdays. The few allowed parties were full of cookies to decorate .. cupcakes, candy, even soda! Luckily, the feds outlawed soda, so that was an easy fix.
We decided as a staff to cut it out. We had a huge push, with lessons and posters and healthy choice examples for recess and "special day" snacks. We had "Garden Parties" in our school garden with tasty treats from the vegetable garden to test taste. Then we put our foot down and said, "NO" to birthday treats (you can't imagine how many birthdays and half birthdays 32 students could have) Then our few parties became "Kindness Activities" and instead of decorating huge cookies, where the main purpose of the party was to scarf down snacks while creating a giant cookie snack, the purpose became whatever project the kids had chosen. .. like making dog blankets or letters to soldiers.
While it is great for students "learn about" healthy eating, but then if the school participates in regular opportunities to celebrate based on poor food choices, that is all pretty hollow. I did earn the title of "Cupcake Nazi" Of course, we still had treats, we just made them more about regular food and not desserts only. Small desert choice, large vegetable, and protein choices. I even changed the chocolate jar for the teachers to in-season lunchbox size fruits and once a week a little chocolate treat.
At the same time, we increased active lifestyle choices at recess, free time and after school .. but that is another side of the "Fit for Life" coin and a discussion for another day.
What the hell is a half birthday? And why would they celebrate it?
I think it's only for the kids whose birthdays are in summer?10 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »100_PROOF_ wrote: »MostlyWater wrote: »People just don't know. It's not taught at school.
It's definitely taught in school. My kids did it in 6th and 7th grade health class.
They where given a pad of paper and told to write down their foods for the weekend and look up the USDA nutrition values associated with the food choices.
Then they where shown how many calories most people need in a day verse what most people consume.
My children go to a American public school and I could easily go ask for the lesson plan to prove that kids are taught this in school.
As a former principal of an American public elementary school, I can tell you that it is very hard to penetrate the culture of cupcakes and doughnuts for birthdays, even HALF birthdays. The few allowed parties were full of cookies to decorate .. cupcakes, candy, even soda! Luckily, the feds outlawed soda, so that was an easy fix.
We decided as a staff to cut it out. We had a huge push, with lessons and posters and healthy choice examples for recess and "special day" snacks. We had "Garden Parties" in our school garden with tasty treats from the vegetable garden to test taste. Then we put our foot down and said, "NO" to birthday treats (you can't imagine how many birthdays and half birthdays 32 students could have) Then our few parties became "Kindness Activities" and instead of decorating huge cookies, where the main purpose of the party was to scarf down snacks while creating a giant cookie snack, the purpose became whatever project the kids had chosen. .. like making dog blankets or letters to soldiers.
While it is great for students "learn about" healthy eating, but then if the school participates in regular opportunities to celebrate based on poor food choices, that is all pretty hollow. I did earn the title of "Cupcake Nazi" Of course, we still had treats, we just made them more about regular food and not desserts only. Small desert choice, large vegetable, and protein choices. I even changed the chocolate jar for the teachers to in-season lunchbox size fruits and once a week a little chocolate treat.
At the same time, we increased active lifestyle choices at recess, free time and after school .. but that is another side of the "Fit for Life" coin and a discussion for another day.
What the hell is a half birthday? And why would they celebrate it?
I think it's only for the kids whose birthdays are in summer?
My sister and I got half-birthdays too, maybe because we have the same birthday so only got one normal party between the two of us? I dunno - it was usually just a cupcake after dinner. We definitely didn't bring stuff to school for it.1 -
MegaMooseEsq wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »100_PROOF_ wrote: »MostlyWater wrote: »People just don't know. It's not taught at school.
It's definitely taught in school. My kids did it in 6th and 7th grade health class.
They where given a pad of paper and told to write down their foods for the weekend and look up the USDA nutrition values associated with the food choices.
Then they where shown how many calories most people need in a day verse what most people consume.
My children go to a American public school and I could easily go ask for the lesson plan to prove that kids are taught this in school.
As a former principal of an American public elementary school, I can tell you that it is very hard to penetrate the culture of cupcakes and doughnuts for birthdays, even HALF birthdays. The few allowed parties were full of cookies to decorate .. cupcakes, candy, even soda! Luckily, the feds outlawed soda, so that was an easy fix.
We decided as a staff to cut it out. We had a huge push, with lessons and posters and healthy choice examples for recess and "special day" snacks. We had "Garden Parties" in our school garden with tasty treats from the vegetable garden to test taste. Then we put our foot down and said, "NO" to birthday treats (you can't imagine how many birthdays and half birthdays 32 students could have) Then our few parties became "Kindness Activities" and instead of decorating huge cookies, where the main purpose of the party was to scarf down snacks while creating a giant cookie snack, the purpose became whatever project the kids had chosen. .. like making dog blankets or letters to soldiers.
While it is great for students "learn about" healthy eating, but then if the school participates in regular opportunities to celebrate based on poor food choices, that is all pretty hollow. I did earn the title of "Cupcake Nazi" Of course, we still had treats, we just made them more about regular food and not desserts only. Small desert choice, large vegetable, and protein choices. I even changed the chocolate jar for the teachers to in-season lunchbox size fruits and once a week a little chocolate treat.
At the same time, we increased active lifestyle choices at recess, free time and after school .. but that is another side of the "Fit for Life" coin and a discussion for another day.
What the hell is a half birthday? And why would they celebrate it?
I think it's only for the kids whose birthdays are in summer?
My sister and I got half-birthdays too, maybe because we have the same birthday so only got one normal party between the two of us? I dunno - it was usually just a cupcake after dinner. We definitely didn't bring stuff to school for it.
Gotcha. I meant for school celebrations.
My son's "half-birthday" falls on my mother's actual birthday, so they usually celebrate together. But that's because Grandma spoils my kid.
5 -
When my kids were in school, "half-birthdays" were for the kids who's birthday fell during a vacation period. Where my kids went there was a monthly party involving home-made treats that included all the kids who had a birthday in that month. Parents signed up in advance to bring the treat so the quantity was limited.6
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MeanderingMammal wrote: »MeanderingMammal wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »MostlyWater wrote: »People just don't know. It's not taught at school.
Sorry, don't buy this. I don't believe a normally functioning adult doesn't know that eating too much will make one fat.
They know that, but they probably have a fuzzier notion of what "too much" is. I once had to explain to my brother that he couldn't just burn off a whole family-sized bag of chips with a quick 20 minute run.
I believe it's pretty simple to identify when it's too much.
Like when your pants don't fit anymore in the waist.
Lagging indicator. By that time is already happened.
People aren't simple, they behave in perverse ways. That's why marketing is so effective, and the diet woo industry spend a lot on marketing.
Marketeers, third up against the wall come the day of the glorious revolution...
I don't know that I'd call one our near-universal cognitive biases perverse. We evolved for life on the African savanna, where cause and effect are usually connected in fairly immediate ways, and where we couldn't go too wrong by assuming they are even when they were not. It's therefore not so easy to grasp on the most basic level that your expanding waistline was caused by your eating habits of the past 2 or 3 decades. (Hell, during the Paleolithic we were lucky to even live that long.)
Since the long term is hard to see, we instinctively look for something more immediate instead. It's this or that specific food or nutrient -- or it's not us; it's our clothes or other people are wrong or something like that.
This is why, until we hit on a means to consistently correct for our cognitive biases (that is, science) human knowledge advanced very slowly, and we believed in magic, astrology, and all kinds of other nonsense.
I think I'm the last 50000 years we've made a few advances, particularly around how we deal with delayed gratification.
Essentially we all understand, in principle, cause and effect, but culturally it's easier to outsource responsibility. Supported by the volume of woo marketing, and limited critical abilities when faced with authority then it's too easy to find a complex approach that fails. We see it repeatedly in here, the number of special snowflakes for whom the laws of thermodynamics don't apply.
The long term is not that hard to see, but taking responsibility for that long term can be more of a challenge.
We have made fewer advances than you think. Mostly, we've become very good at rationalizing things we believe for irrational reasons. That's why the thermodynamics-immune special snowflakes, quite aside from the responsibility issue.
There are any number of good resources on the subject, but have a look at "On Being Certain" by Robert Burton.4 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »MostlyWater wrote: »People just don't know. It's not taught at school.
Sorry, don't buy this. I don't believe a normally functioning adult doesn't know that eating too much will make one fat.
They know that, but they probably have a fuzzier notion of what "too much" is. I once had to explain to my brother that he couldn't just burn off a whole family-sized bag of chips with a quick 20 minute run.
^^This.
I know because I thought the same way. Hey I worked hard (no I didn't) for this Big Mac, Fries and a coke. There is a big difference between understanding the concept and putting even reasonable numbers to it. I think it's the UK that is putting calories and equivalent exercise on menus now for just this reason.
You DID work hard for that Big Mac etc. You just... didn't work hard ENOUGH. 4 -
100_PROOF_ wrote: »MostlyWater wrote: »People just don't know. It's not taught at school.
It's definitely taught in school. My kids did it in 6th and 7th grade health class.
They where given a pad of paper and told to write down their foods for the weekend and look up the USDA nutrition values associated with the food choices.
Then they where shown how many calories most people need in a day verse what most people consume.
My children go to a American public school and I could easily go ask for the lesson plan to prove that kids are taught this in school.
As a former principal of an American public elementary school, I can tell you that it is very hard to penetrate the culture of cupcakes and doughnuts for birthdays, even HALF birthdays. The few allowed parties were full of cookies to decorate .. cupcakes, candy, even soda! Luckily, the feds outlawed soda, so that was an easy fix.
We decided as a staff to cut it out. We had a huge push, with lessons and posters and healthy choice examples for recess and "special day" snacks. We had "Garden Parties" in our school garden with tasty treats from the vegetable garden to test taste. Then we put our foot down and said, "NO" to birthday treats (you can't imagine how many birthdays and half birthdays 32 students could have) Then our few parties became "Kindness Activities" and instead of decorating huge cookies, where the main purpose of the party was to scarf down snacks while creating a giant cookie snack, the purpose became whatever project the kids had chosen. .. like making dog blankets or letters to soldiers.
While it is great for students "learn about" healthy eating, but then if the school participates in regular opportunities to celebrate based on poor food choices, that is all pretty hollow. I did earn the title of "Cupcake Nazi" Of course, we still had treats, we just made them more about regular food and not desserts only. Small desert choice, large vegetable, and protein choices. I even changed the chocolate jar for the teachers to in-season lunchbox size fruits and once a week a little chocolate treat.
At the same time, we increased active lifestyle choices at recess, free time and after school .. but that is another side of the "Fit for Life" coin and a discussion for another day.
What the hell is a half birthday? And why would they celebrate it?
That was my question too! Does that mean I can be 27 instead of 54? lol5
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