Keto for pets? Keto strips for cats?
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OMG some woman who runs a blog on facebook was saying how she is putting her dogs on the keto diet because they are both overweight and one or both have seizures and it will prevent them from getting cancer. she said she put them on a diet to lose weight and neither one lost weight.so she was trying keto for them. I told her its not a special diet and so on and blah blah blah.
she argued with me saying her vets and her holistic pet provider recommended it to her and she thinks the same keto woo a lot of human ketoers believe. she was buying canned sardines and oysters, coconut oil and other things for her pets(she took pics and posted them),not to mention these things will also be raw (aside from the canned fish and seafood).
she said that the seizure meds werent working as well so she was trying the diet.she thinks it will help them magically lose weight. I just shook my head. I unliked her page because now she is touting more nonsense about other things that could be dangerous to a pet.1 -
Is this real?2
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or just fantasy?4
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I'm sort of surprised at how some people are so against feeding cats or dogs a diet that is low in carbohydrates. A ketogenic diet does not have specific foods, it just has a low carbohydrate macro, a low to high protein macro, and a high to moderate fat intake. The easiest, and most natural, way to hit that for dogs and cats would be a meat based diet. Cats naturally eat meat, and dogs mostly do. Seems like their natural diet to me
I appreciate that there is some backlash from the word, keto. Im sure someone is thinking of fat bombs for dogs or bullet proof cream for cats, but a diet with meat, dairy, eggs and a few carbs would probably suit most dogs well.
Course if this was about ketogenic rabbits or something, sure! Bad idea.
Or my vegetarian in laws planning on raising a vegetarian dog... Probably not ideal for the animal.
This thread has been amusing.8 -
kommodevaran wrote: »Aren't predators, even domesticated predatotor like dogs and cats, but especially cats, natural carnivores?
Dogs are considered omnivores with noticeable carnivore traits; cats are obligate carnivores.
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It's one thing to stop feeding your pets kibble and cheap food full of fillers. It's another thing to test their urine to be sure they are in ketosis. That's just pathetic, I'm sorry.
I have mixed feelings about raw food diets for pets. Yes they would be eating raw meat in the wild, but it would be freshly killed. Not sure I'd trust the raw meat available to me, my ability to handle it safely, and def wouldn't trust commercial raw pet food. If they can manage to get salmonella and euthanasia drugs in dog chow, they'll eventually get it into those cute little frightful expensive packages of raw food.
People always have to take stuff too far smh. If you want to make your pets food yourself, go for it. They should be eating mostly meat anyway, rather than some of the corn kibble that's out there. You can do that with better label reading too. But it doesn't matter if you can confirm they're actually in ketosis or not.
You're right @kimny72. Yes, they would be eating raw meat in the wild but they die in the wild, too, a lot sooner than in captivity. Also, they don't get vaccinations in the wild, would you stop giving them vaccinations too so they can live "as nature intended?"3 -
cmriverside wrote: »Cats are not only carnivores, they're obligate carnivores - so they are in ketosis or dead.
On another note though, Vets think they are people doctors. Their costs/fees are higher than my regular doctor. Such a scam. No insurance agencies watching over their costs.
Humans don't usually try to bite, or piss and *kitten* all over the room for a basic check up. Humans have seperate doctors for teeth, heart, breathing, xrays bones or whatever, the vet does it all. Humans don't wait until maggots are eating them before they notice theres an issue, or expect the Dr. To trim thier toenails. Humans can answer questions and describe invisible symptoms, pets can't.
I used to hear the same complaint when I was grooming. "You charge more to cut my dogs hair than my hairdresser charges me!"
"Well does your hairdresser scrub your entire body, brush your teeth, clean your ears, brush and style the hair on your ENTIRE body (not just your head), including shaving pubes, and throw in a full mani/pedi all while you are jumping around like an idiot and refusing to stand still for 10 seconds?"21 -
I'm sort of surprised at how some people are so against feeding cats or dogs a diet that is low in carbohydrates.
I'd be against feeding a cat a diet that high in fat (as a normal human keto diet), as it goes against the advice my vet gave me.
I am also in FAVOR of minimizing carbs in cat diets, they normally would have pretty low amounts (not none, freshly killed meat has some).
Trying to get a cat in ketosis would, of course, be irresponsible for the reasons Nony said.
I believe dogs have more carbs than cats do in their normal diet, but I don't have a dog so only go by my memory of what a friend of mine said when telling us about what she did to prepare homemade dog food for her dog.5 -
cmriverside wrote: »Cats are not only carnivores, they're obligate carnivores - so they are in ketosis or dead.
On another note though, Vets think they are people doctors. Their costs/fees are higher than my regular doctor. Such a scam. No insurance agencies watching over their costs.
Humans don't usually try to bite, or piss and *kitten* all over the room for a basic check up. Humans have seperate doctors for teeth, heart, breathing, xrays bones or whatever, the vet does it all. Humans don't wait until maggots are eating them before they notice theres an issue, or expect the Dr. To trim thier toenails. Humans can answer questions and describe invisible symptoms, pets can't.
I used to hear the same complaint when I was grooming. "You charge more to cut my dogs hair than my hairdresser charges me!"
"Well does your hairdresser scrub your entire body, brush your teeth, clean your ears, brush and style the hair on your ENTIRE body (not just your head), including shaving pubes, and throw in a full mani/pedi all while you are jumping around like an idiot and refusing to stand still for 10 seconds?"
Having working in a spa many years ago, you are describing a lot of the similarities in behaviours.6 -
I have a diabetic cat, and switching from dry food (with carbs) to a wet food meat diet (low carb) has successfully kept him off insulin for years.
I'm not sure about ketosis. I may test his blood glucose because that is medically necessary, but not ketones.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I'm sort of surprised at how some people are so against feeding cats or dogs a diet that is low in carbohydrates.
I'd be against feeding a cat a diet that high in fat (as a normal human keto diet), as it goes against the advice my vet gave me.
I am also in FAVOR of minimizing carbs in cat diets, they normally would have pretty low amounts (not none, freshly killed meat has some).
Trying to get a cat in ketosis would, of course, be irresponsible for the reasons Nony said.
I believe dogs have more carbs than cats do in their normal diet, but I don't have a dog so only go by my memory of what a friend of mine said when telling us about what she did to prepare homemade dog food for her dog.
I don't know much about cats. What sort of foods did your vet advise for your cat? Still all animal products but lean meat?
Dogs do eat carbs, just not much. I would be worried for a dog whose diet was moderate or high carb. Keeping a dog near its natural diet is smart. Probably ideal. Smart care for pets (including vaccinations, grooming, and shelter) is the way to go.
But yeah, testing for desired ketones in a pet is odd. Hopefully not many people are projecting their human beliefs onto their pets.0 -
I'm ovo-lacto vegetarian with a cat. About the only time I project my beliefs onto him is when he gives me a murder gift and waits for me to chow down. And I usually shake my head and say, "Sootie... you really shouldn't have..."6
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Lol. My dog is more selfish. He'd eat it himself or bury it for later.1
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Your pets are fat for the same reason you are fat and the whole family is fat, YOU EAT TOO MUCH. Get a portion control feeder but make sure your bringing the dog down slowly. You can torture yourself with stupid diets and get all jittery because you've take Herbalife a bit too far, but be kind to the fat dog, it's not her fault, it's YOURS.3
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lemurcat12 wrote: »I'm sort of surprised at how some people are so against feeding cats or dogs a diet that is low in carbohydrates.
I'd be against feeding a cat a diet that high in fat (as a normal human keto diet), as it goes against the advice my vet gave me.
I am also in FAVOR of minimizing carbs in cat diets, they normally would have pretty low amounts (not none, freshly killed meat has some).
Trying to get a cat in ketosis would, of course, be irresponsible for the reasons Nony said.
I believe dogs have more carbs than cats do in their normal diet, but I don't have a dog so only go by my memory of what a friend of mine said when telling us about what she did to prepare homemade dog food for her dog.
I don't know much about cats. What sort of foods did your vet advise for your cat? Still all animal products but lean meat?
Dogs do eat carbs, just not much. I would be worried for a dog whose diet was moderate or high carb. Keeping a dog near its natural diet is smart. Probably ideal. Smart care for pets (including vaccinations, grooming, and shelter) is the way to go.
But yeah, testing for desired ketones in a pet is odd. Hopefully not many people are projecting their human beliefs onto their pets.
Here's a lengthy source with a discussion of different commercial foods (probably more information than you want -- I told my vet I'd be interested, and this is what she offered): http://catinfo.org/
Shorter version: less than 10% carbs, less than 50% fat, more than 40% protein. Protein should be mostly animal protein. If you want to make your own food (I don't), make sure not to just feed meat but get help, as the natural cat diet will include bones and organs too (and while organs are meat some would just feed other cuts, I guess).
But the keto thing is that cats being fed their natural diet won't be manufacturing ketones. That's a sign of diabetes (from what I've read, I've not had a cat with diabetes).
Agreed that a dog would also have a lower carb diet and it should be close to what dogs would naturally eat. I'm not knowledgeable about dog diets except that I believe cats are obligate carnivores and dogs aren't. The diet my friend was feeding her dog was mostly meat, but she said there was a reason to include more variety than with cats.
Trying to remember if pumpkin was one of those things -- oddly enough, pumpkin seems to be helpful for cats (in smaller amounts, not as a replacement for meat) for a variety of health issues.0 -
Are dogs and cats even capable of going into ketosis? I'm not familiar with their nutrient metabolism and energy usage. Would never do that to my dog (he loves carrots), but it made me curious about their metabolism.0
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cmriverside wrote: »Cats are not only carnivores, they're obligate carnivores - so they are in ketosis or dead.
On another note though, Vets think they are people doctors. Their costs/fees are higher than my regular doctor. Such a scam. No insurance agencies watching over their costs.
This is basically what I came to post.
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I would much prefer to see cats/dogs on a B.A.R.F diet (bones and raw food) than be fed a predominantly grain based sub par kibble diet.
I feed my dog and cat a mostly fresh meat and bones based diet, supplemented with a grain free dry food. As has been mentioned, cats are obligate carnivores, dogs can unfortunately survive on just about any diet. I prefer my guys to thrive rather than just survive on any ol food/diet!
ETA: I wouldnt bother with pee test strips for a cat.. If you're feeding your cat the diet it was designed to eat, then test strips are a completely pointless waste of time!0 -
What do they eat in nature? Is it kibble or is it meat and fat from prey? Do they seem to prefer corn such as in the corn-based garbage most people feed their pets? I wouldn't go crazy on the fats, but meat would be better for them than mass-produced corn-based "food" and if nature had intended for them to eat that it would have had them eating corn in nature in addition to whatever else. So far it seems to me that nature has dietary habits and needs of living creatures figured out far better than we have yet with all of our infinite wisdom and "expertise"1
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We cook for our dog because dog food is not always available in the nearby stores and can be expensive. He basically gets our scraps, so it's a win-win situation. He gets all the offal and meat bits we don't eat and freezer burned meat (happens often, we buy on sale but aren't heavy meat eaters), supplemented by additional offal bought cheaply from the local butcher, all the vegetable bits we want to throw away like tips and stubs, plus and any older vegetables when we buy a new batch and sometimes leftover rice or pasta, plus a carrot or two in every pot (he loves carrots). He also gets the random bite of fruit or greek yogurt on bread every now and then when he begs for it. We're not very particular about his diet and he's not exactly grain free but he is thriving because he has a varied diet.0
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This keto *kitten* is getting out of control.4
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amusedmonkey wrote: »Are dogs and cats even capable of going into ketosis? I'm not familiar with their nutrient metabolism and energy usage. Would never do that to my dog (he loves carrots), but it made me curious about their metabolism.
I don't know about cats and dogs, but read about ketosis in cows and it's not a good thing at all. Can't imagine putting any other animal in ketosis on purpose.0 -
I think a diet that puts an animal in ketosis is different from a (human) ketogenic diet. For instance, to get a rat into ketosis the fat intake must be incredibly high and the protein and carbs much lower than what a human would healthfully eat. If a rat ate a human ketogenic diet, they would not be in ketosis.MichelleSilverleaf wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Are dogs and cats even capable of going into ketosis? I'm not familiar with their nutrient metabolism and energy usage. Would never do that to my dog (he loves carrots), but it made me curious about their metabolism.
I don't know about cats and dogs, but read about ketosis in cows and it's not a good thing at all. Can't imagine putting any other animal in ketosis on purpose.
Yikes. Why would anyone feed a cow fat? Their microbes make VFAs and a large portion of their protein for them.0 -
I think a diet that puts an animal in ketosis is different from a (human) ketogenic diet. For instance, to get a rat into ketosis the fat intake must be incredibly high and the protein and carbs much lower than what a human would healthfully eat. If a rat ate a human ketogenic diet, they would not be in ketosis.MichelleSilverleaf wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Are dogs and cats even capable of going into ketosis? I'm not familiar with their nutrient metabolism and energy usage. Would never do that to my dog (he loves carrots), but it made me curious about their metabolism.
I don't know about cats and dogs, but read about ketosis in cows and it's not a good thing at all. Can't imagine putting any other animal in ketosis on purpose.
Yikes. Why would anyone feed a cow fat? Their microbes make VFAs and a large portion of their protein for them.
It doesn't come from being fed fat, it can happen after giving birth or if she's under-eating or eating poor silage (last two instances I saw were farmers dealing with a cow in ketosis after she gave birth). Either way it makes them pretty miserable and unhappy cows, I just can't imagine potentially putting a dog or cat into ketosis either. Everyone in my house eats according to their needs (except the cats, I've run out of good foods to try and they snub everything except for fancy feast. I hate it but I'd rather they eat than go hungry 2-3 days in a row).0 -
Does playing Lionel Ritchie for your dog put it in a state of nutritional ketosis faster?0
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What the hell are you thinking.0
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MichelleSilverleaf wrote: »I think a diet that puts an animal in ketosis is different from a (human) ketogenic diet. For instance, to get a rat into ketosis the fat intake must be incredibly high and the protein and carbs much lower than what a human would healthfully eat. If a rat ate a human ketogenic diet, they would not be in ketosis.MichelleSilverleaf wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Are dogs and cats even capable of going into ketosis? I'm not familiar with their nutrient metabolism and energy usage. Would never do that to my dog (he loves carrots), but it made me curious about their metabolism.
I don't know about cats and dogs, but read about ketosis in cows and it's not a good thing at all. Can't imagine putting any other animal in ketosis on purpose.
Yikes. Why would anyone feed a cow fat? Their microbes make VFAs and a large portion of their protein for them.
It doesn't come from being fed fat, it can happen after giving birth or if she's under-eating or eating poor silage (last two instances I saw were farmers dealing with a cow in ketosis after she gave birth). Either way it makes them pretty miserable and unhappy cows, I just can't imagine potentially putting a dog or cat into ketosis either. Everyone in my house eats according to their needs (except the cats, I've run out of good foods to try and they snub everything except for fancy feast. I hate it but I'd rather they eat than go hungry 2-3 days in a row).
gives a whole new meaning to skinny cow ice cream.
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I can't believe this isn't a joke.
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