How do you do keto?
Replies
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I would let your protein go up. Moderate or higher protein is often most effective for appetite control and in aiding preservation of lean mass. There is no need to keep protein lower unless you have a medical need to do so, or need very high levels of ketones (in which case you would be keeping carbs very low too).
More on lean mass preservation and low carb diets:
https://nutritionandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1743-7075-3-9
Thank you for the article (and to everyone else for all the good advice here, too)! I think I'm more worried about going over on protein because I'm not lifting this week; I decided to give working out a break during the first week of keto and pick it up next week (I assumed the "keto flu" would pass by then and I was right, it only took 3ish days). So not going to sweat being over on my protein as much now.
I'm having a surprisingly easy time sticking to my calorie goal, too. This isn't something I want to do forever, I want to ease back into a regular calorie-reasonable lifestyle eventually, but I have to say this isn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be.
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Mauro Di Pasquale (and even John McCallum in the 1960s) basically set the number based on your needs, but it was always around 20 gr to get into ketosis and you stayed around there until you hit your goals.
The original purpose of a ketogenic diet was basically to help bodybuilders and powerlifters to cut water weight and a bit of fat quickly without resorting to methods that might make them test positive for steroid abuse.
The intent was NOT to live a low-carb "lifestyle"* because most people would not make their weight lifting targets when training after too long in ketosis.
Those types of guys did not have a bunch of crap in their diets and always had plenty of vegetables, etc. anyway.
Not that most overweight couch potatoes would know those names or would ever touch a barbell for fear that they might actually have to do some work.
Those individuals would rather hope / claim that ketogenic diets are a magic bullet which will solve the sorts of problems that most bodybuilders and powerlifters never had in the first place.
All the while most of them would also claim that they don't want to put on any muscle or even worse, "get too bulky".
Sorry lady, but lifting weights will not make you look like Arnold S. and you are already well beyond "bulky".
*Aside from using it to treat epilepsy in kids, etc.1 -
I would let your protein go up. Moderate or higher protein is often most effective for appetite control and in aiding preservation of lean mass. There is no need to keep protein lower unless you have a medical need to do so, or need very high levels of ketones (in which case you would be keeping carbs very low too).
More on lean mass preservation and low carb diets:
https://nutritionandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1743-7075-3-9
Thank you for the article (and to everyone else for all the good advice here, too)! I think I'm more worried about going over on protein because I'm not lifting this week; I decided to give working out a break during the first week of keto and pick it up next week (I assumed the "keto flu" would pass by then and I was right, it only took 3ish days). So not going to sweat being over on my protein as much now.
I'm having a surprisingly easy time sticking to my calorie goal, too. This isn't something I want to do forever, I want to ease back into a regular calorie-reasonable lifestyle eventually, but I have to say this isn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be.
So what is your reason for doing keto, is it purely weight loss? Because that comes from a calorie deficit and can be achieved eating any combination of macros and types of foods. People who find fat satiating or have difficulty moderating their intake of certain carby foods may find it easiest to stick with the calorie deficit if they go low carb - but if you aren’t planning to continue after you achieve your goals - I’m curious why you wouldn’t just start with building a plan for weight loss that resembles how you intend to eat forever? To me, that’s the best approach for long term success.4 -
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tammyd_white wrote: »I have been keto/low carb off and on since 1998-ish. I had a problem with my gall bladder that led to a problem with my pancreas, that was only relieved with low carb. I wasn't 'specifically' keto in the beginning. But Looking back on my diet, I was. And weight stayed off me quite easily. The only time I've gained weight is when I let carbs creep in. Which I'm just coming off a few months of allowing carbs and now have 15 lbs to lose
But I know I can do it. The thing to remember about all this is that high fat is good for getting into ketosis and for getting over the carb withdrawals. Once you are in ketosis, you don't need your fat to be so high. You are wanting to use your body fat, not dietary fat for energy, if you are wanting to lose weight. So, just focus on keeping all the processed carbs/sugar and high sugar fruit out of your diet. You don't have to strictly have 70% fat or what not. It's good to keep goals, like in this app, and to track so that you have a good picture of what is going on. But don't stress over 20 vs 50 carbs, etc. Track, if you are losing - keep doing what you are doing. If you plateau, look at your numbers - if your carbs have crept up, reduce. If you are SUPER low like less than 10 and you are not losing, mix in some random 50 carb days - that type of carb cycling is well known for breaking plateaus. Also, track your artificial sweeteners. Many of them are known for spiking insulin almost as bad as sugar. While those are no-carb, they could wreck your results as well.
I often refer to this lifestyle as 'decadent'. It's so much of the 'no-no's' in the 'dieting world'. But, it's the most effective and satisfying lifestyle. You can and should use full fat dairy, use healthy fats like coconut oil, grass fed butter, olive oil and eat lots and lots of fatty fish and non-starchy vegetables. So those bacon wrapped, cream cheese and shrimp jalapenos are a DIET food! Those eggs with cheese, avocado and sour cream are a DIET food! Those macadamia nuts with cheese are a DIET food! That heavy cream in your coffee is a DIET food! These are all rich, decadent foods that will HELP YOU LOSE WEIGHT and feel full and satisfied. This is pretty much the only lifestyle that will support a healthy body and weight and NOT feel like torture. And to top it off, keto is even used to treat brain disorders and even CANCER. Yea, it's a wonderful lifestyle. It may not be for everyone, but it is definitely a good one if you can get into the swing of things.
There’s a whole lot of misinformation in your post but I will just focus on the bolded...
I lost weight and am 3 years into maintenance for never paid a lick of attention to my carb intake, never cut out a single food I enjoy including pizza, wine and ice cream; and because of that my plan felt simple and easy and not at all tortuous. What would have felt tortuous to me would be not being able to eat delicious fresh baked bread, pasta, and following it up with gelato at my local Italian neighborhood place. Some people are happy, satiated, and successful while eating a low carb diet but to make blanket statements that keto is the only lifestyle that doesn’t feel like torture is most definitely not a true statement for MANY people.7 -
WinoGelato wrote: »tammyd_white wrote: »I have been keto/low carb off and on since 1998-ish. I had a problem with my gall bladder that led to a problem with my pancreas, that was only relieved with low carb. I wasn't 'specifically' keto in the beginning. But Looking back on my diet, I was. And weight stayed off me quite easily. The only time I've gained weight is when I let carbs creep in. Which I'm just coming off a few months of allowing carbs and now have 15 lbs to lose But I know I can do it. The thing to remember about all this is that high fat is good for getting into ketosis and for getting over the carb withdrawals. Once you are in ketosis, you don't need your fat to be so high. You are wanting to use your body fat, not dietary fat for energy, if you are wanting to lose weight. So, just focus on keeping all the processed carbs/sugar and high sugar fruit out of your diet. You don't have to strictly have 70% fat or what not. It's good to keep goals, like in this app, and to track so that you have a good picture of what is going on. But don't stress over 20 vs 50 carbs, etc. Track, if you are losing - keep doing what you are doing. If you plateau, look at your numbers - if your carbs have crept up, reduce. If you are SUPER low like less than 10 and you are not losing, mix in some random 50 carb days - that type of carb cycling is well known for breaking plateaus. Also, track your artificial sweeteners. Many of them are known for spiking insulin almost as bad as sugar. While those are no-carb, they could wreck your results as well.
I often refer to this lifestyle as 'decadent'. It's so much of the 'no-no's' in the 'dieting world'. But, it's the most effective and satisfying lifestyle. You can and should use full fat dairy, use healthy fats like coconut oil, grass fed butter, olive oil and eat lots and lots of fatty fish and non-starchy vegetables. So those bacon wrapped, cream cheese and shrimp jalapenos are a DIET food! Those eggs with cheese, avocado and sour cream are a DIET food! Those macadamia nuts with cheese are a DIET food! That heavy cream in your coffee is a DIET food! These are all rich, decadent foods that will HELP YOU LOSE WEIGHT and feel full and satisfied. This is pretty much the only lifestyle that will support a healthy body and weight and NOT feel like torture. And to top it off, keto is even used to treat brain disorders and even CANCER. Yea, it's a wonderful lifestyle. It may not be for everyone, but it is definitely a good one if you can get into the swing of things.
There’s a whole lot of misinformation in your post but I will just focus on the bolded...
I lost weight and am 3 years into maintenance for never paid a lick of attention to my carb intake, never cut out a single food I enjoy including pizza, wine and ice cream; and because of that my plan felt simple and easy and not at all tortuous. What would have felt tortuous to me would be not being able to eat delicious fresh baked bread, pasta, and following it up with gelato at my local Italian neighborhood place. Some people are happy, satiated, and successful while eating a low carb diet but to make blanket statements that keto is the only lifestyle that doesn’t feel like torture is most definitely not a true statement for MANY people.
Exactly. Adherence trumps macro composition. All diets work if you find the one you like and are able to stick to it as it aligns with your goals.
As for the misinformation in the previous post, I want to highlight this:
And to top it off, keto is even used to treat brain disorders and even CANCER.
This is a dangerous generalized statement because keto is used in conjunction with medical health care strategies to help treat certain brain disorders and some cancers. There are cancers that can thrive on ketones and fatty acid, and certain brain disorders show improvement with ketogenic diets, but keto is not primarily responsible for the complete reversal of those diseases.
Here is a collection of over 200 studies related to the ketogenic diet ranging from weight loss to epilepsy: https://sci-fit.net/keto-study-collection/
As a general rule of thumb, it's unwise to generalize statements without evidence to support it.6 -
WinoGelato wrote: »
So what is your reason for doing keto, is it purely weight loss? Because that comes from a calorie deficit and can be achieved eating any combination of macros and types of foods. People who find fat satiating or have difficulty moderating their intake of certain carby foods may find it easiest to stick with the calorie deficit if they go low carb - but if you aren’t planning to continue after you achieve your goals - I’m curious why you wouldn’t just start with building a plan for weight loss that resembles how you intend to eat forever? To me, that’s the best approach for long term success.
I did that before, and pretty well because I use MFP, work out a bit, and so on. I've been managing my health and weight pretty well, I know when I fall "off the wagon" and gain weight, and I know how to take it off again. This isn't my first rodeo overall, this is my first carb-free rodeo.
I'm doing keto because my wife decided she'd like to try it. She doesn't approach getting healthier or weight loss the same way I do, she does better with more defined rules/parameters for what to eat. On top of that, she likes carbs. A lot. So keto is a way for her to make a clean break with, I don't want to say addiction cause I don't think that's right, but more like a passionate love affair with carbs.
Her plan is to do keto for a several months to break up with carbs a bit, get used to tracking everything (tracking things for calories drives her nuts, but doing it to track the carbs AND calories at the same time she is doing quite fine with. Yeah, I don't get it either, but if that works for her, I'm going to encourage it), make some progress, then after the keto period finishes ease into a low carb lifestyle that is still higher carb than keto but lower carb than her normal lifestyle, which is kind of like if you lived at a carnival and ate exclusively from the food trucks. And yes, I have made her very, very aware that by easing back into lower quantities of carbs will bring back some water weight as well, so she knows when that happens not to panic because the week we go back to the new normal, she'll see her weight jump a bit.
I have to say, this is the first thing from a perspective of health and managing weight and diet I've seen her not just be enthused about, but actually successful so far. She's enjoying it, she finds it fun to try to find recipes that fit our dietary needs right now, and she's really engaged in this. So yeah, I get that you want to eat the lifestyle you can maintain, but this is working right now and these habits, after several months, are going to do really well for her in managing a reasonable lifestyle (and when I say lower carb, I mean we aren't in keto anymore, but balancing things to pay more attention to good carbs, keeping off the processed snack junk, etc). So this isn't just about being in ketosis, but it's a whole process of helping her acquire the skills and habits she needs to make good nutritional choices. She actually has, for the first time ever, embraced using a food scale and IS using it. Any other time she's tried to eat like how I normally eat it was much more of a struggle.
For me, this is new, since I usually eat without paying attention to carbs, but eliminating processed food, focusing on fresh veggies and fruit for snacks, eating reasonable portions, etc. I have a lot of questions simply because I've never approached anything quite in this fashion before. Mostly, because I do work out with moderate cardio and weight lifting, I'm more interested in making sure I get enough protein (which is easy on keto, thank god). Thus my many questions on the subject right now, I'm just in new territory.
So, there ya go.0 -
And no idea WHY my response showed up as a quote there, it's not supposed to be. *sigh* Sorry about that.0
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I did that before, and pretty well because I use MFP, work out a bit, and so on. I've been managing my health and weight pretty well, I know when I fall "off the wagon" and gain weight, and I know how to take it off again. This isn't my first rodeo overall, this is my first carb-free rodeo.
I'm doing keto because my wife decided she'd like to try it. She doesn't approach getting healthier or weight loss the same way I do, she does better with more defined rules/parameters for what to eat. On top of that, she likes carbs. A lot. So keto is a way for her to make a clean break with, I don't want to say addiction cause I don't think that's right, but more like a passionate love affair with carbs.
Her plan is to do keto for a several months to break up with carbs a bit, get used to tracking everything (tracking things for calories drives her nuts, but doing it to track the carbs AND calories at the same time she is doing quite fine with. Yeah, I don't get it either, but if that works for her, I'm going to encourage it), make some progress, then after the keto period finishes ease into a low carb lifestyle that is still higher carb than keto but lower carb than her normal lifestyle, which is kind of like if you lived at a carnival and ate exclusively from the food trucks. And yes, I have made her very, very aware that by easing back into lower quantities of carbs will bring back some water weight as well, so she knows when that happens not to panic because the week we go back to the new normal, she'll see her weight jump a bit.
I have to say, this is the first thing from a perspective of health and managing weight and diet I've seen her not just be enthused about, but actually successful so far. She's enjoying it, she finds it fun to try to find recipes that fit our dietary needs right now, and she's really engaged in this. So yeah, I get that you want to eat the lifestyle you can maintain, but this is working right now and these habits, after several months, are going to do really well for her in managing a reasonable lifestyle (and when I say lower carb, I mean we aren't in keto anymore, but balancing things to pay more attention to good carbs, keeping off the processed snack junk, etc). So this isn't just about being in ketosis, but it's a whole process of helping her acquire the skills and habits she needs to make good nutritional choices. She actually has, for the first time ever, embraced using a food scale and IS using it. Any other time she's tried to eat like how I normally eat it was much more of a struggle.
For me, this is new, since I usually eat without paying attention to carbs, but eliminating processed food, focusing on fresh veggies and fruit for snacks, eating reasonable portions, etc. I have a lot of questions simply because I've never approached anything quite in this fashion before. Mostly, because I do work out with moderate cardio and weight lifting, I'm more interested in making sure I get enough protein (which is easy on keto, thank god). Thus my many questions on the subject right now, I'm just in new territory.
So, there ya go.
I fixed your reply for you so it would show.
This sounds like a sensible approach, especially if you'll be using it to break some less than healthy habits and gradually establishing healthier ones.
The important thing to understand is that the process of weight management is never ending. Losing excess weight in order to reach an ideal body weight is only the first stage. Once you reach an ideal body weight, maintaining that weight is something you need to work on. The amount you eat is still important. What you eat at that point becomes important insofar as how it functions to fuel your activity, keep you satiated and within your calorie goals, and how satisfied if keeps you so you adhere to that way of eating.
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Yeah, understand that very, very well. Again, this isn't my first rodeo, I know things have to be sustainable, calories matter, etc...it's her that's learning this, and keto is an approach that some how is getting thru. 0
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If keto/low carb is helping her with adherence, then that is exactly the diet for her to maintain a healthy outlook on her health. It's also great that you are being supportive.
As you said, the elimination of refined/processed food and a focus on whole food is basically the foundation of successful diets. In a nutshell, that's how you do keto.1 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »The simplest way to keto = drop carbs to 50g or less per day. That's it.
Keto isn't what you eat (trying to increase fat on purpose), it's what you *don't eat*, meaning carbs.
The macro % is only based on the calories per macro gram / total calories:
350g of carbs = 1400kcal >> 1400/2800 = 50% carb
125g of protein = 500kcal >> 500/2800 = ~18% pro
100g of fat = 900kcal >> 900/2800 = ~32% fat
Total kcal = 2800.
Keep protein and fat the same, and just reduce carbs to ~50g. The new total kcal becomes 1600. Now the new math:
50g of carbs = 200kcal >> 200/1600 = ~13% carbs
125g protein = 500kcal >> 500/1600 = ~31% pro
100g fat = 900kcal >> 900/1600 = ~56% fat
Reduce carbs further and it changes the ratio of each macro. Increase fat just a little bit and it changes the macro % again.
You don't need to gorge on large amounts of fat for keto. You just need to reduce carbs. What keeps people satiated is likely the protein and perhaps the presence of ketones is what leads to spontaneous appetite reduction.
But this is also a mathematically illustrated way to show how just reducing carbs simply creates a calorie deficit. If you increase the amount of fat, you also increase the calories. People get fat on keto too. Nothing escapes the law of thermodynamics.
Is it 50 grams for carbs? My wife and I started this week, we've been reading it's 20 net carbs.
It varies.
Those who are healthy often choose around 50g (total or net, as long as your carbs are fibrous) of carbs. Some go higher (even over 100g) if they are timing their carb intake around strenuous exercise.
People with insulin resistance issues (CAD, T2D, prediabetes, NAFLD, alzheimer's, PCOS) often go lower - below 20-30g. Those who like ketones for theuraputic reasons, like cognitive improvements, or for improved appetite suppression, also go low.
People who find fibre and and plant matter irritate intestinal problems can safely go to zero carbs if they wish.
Disagree...there are three people in my office currently on the keto fad simply to lose weight and for no other reason. They're absolutely miserable...and they relish in their misery as if weight loss has to be torture to work.
Do you mean you disagreed with this?The people who stay at 20g tend to do so because they feel better at that level. Sort of like how a celiac will avoid gluten in order to feel better. Very few people stay at 20g of carbs in order to make themselves more miserable.
Your coworkers probably need salt to balance their electrolytes... or therapy.
My guess is that they won't stick with keto for the reasons I said in the above quote. If they are just using keto as a weight loss tool, and not taking care of electrolytes at the same time they will feel poorly, and then they'll abandon it and go back to "normal" eating... probably regain their weight.
People don't stick with unusual diets unless they have a good reason to do so. For vegan, it is often ethical or they feel better that way. For keto, it is often due to better health or they love that type of food. people rarely stick with something that requires effort unless they get some benefit from it.
Nah...these two have been jumping on whatever fad diet is popular for years and it always involves some kind of misery for them. It has to be hard and miserable, or it must not work. They're the same one's who think they're being sabotaged with people leaving candy in the break room.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »The simplest way to keto = drop carbs to 50g or less per day. That's it.
Keto isn't what you eat (trying to increase fat on purpose), it's what you *don't eat*, meaning carbs.
The macro % is only based on the calories per macro gram / total calories:
350g of carbs = 1400kcal >> 1400/2800 = 50% carb
125g of protein = 500kcal >> 500/2800 = ~18% pro
100g of fat = 900kcal >> 900/2800 = ~32% fat
Total kcal = 2800.
Keep protein and fat the same, and just reduce carbs to ~50g. The new total kcal becomes 1600. Now the new math:
50g of carbs = 200kcal >> 200/1600 = ~13% carbs
125g protein = 500kcal >> 500/1600 = ~31% pro
100g fat = 900kcal >> 900/1600 = ~56% fat
Reduce carbs further and it changes the ratio of each macro. Increase fat just a little bit and it changes the macro % again.
You don't need to gorge on large amounts of fat for keto. You just need to reduce carbs. What keeps people satiated is likely the protein and perhaps the presence of ketones is what leads to spontaneous appetite reduction.
But this is also a mathematically illustrated way to show how just reducing carbs simply creates a calorie deficit. If you increase the amount of fat, you also increase the calories. People get fat on keto too. Nothing escapes the law of thermodynamics.
Is it 50 grams for carbs? My wife and I started this week, we've been reading it's 20 net carbs.
It varies.
Those who are healthy often choose around 50g (total or net, as long as your carbs are fibrous) of carbs. Some go higher (even over 100g) if they are timing their carb intake around strenuous exercise.
People with insulin resistance issues (CAD, T2D, prediabetes, NAFLD, alzheimer's, PCOS) often go lower - below 20-30g. Those who like ketones for theuraputic reasons, like cognitive improvements, or for improved appetite suppression, also go low.
People who find fibre and and plant matter irritate intestinal problems can safely go to zero carbs if they wish.
Disagree...there are three people in my office currently on the keto fad simply to lose weight and for no other reason. They're absolutely miserable...and they relish in their misery as if weight loss has to be torture to work.
Do you mean you disagreed with this?The people who stay at 20g tend to do so because they feel better at that level. Sort of like how a celiac will avoid gluten in order to feel better. Very few people stay at 20g of carbs in order to make themselves more miserable.
Your coworkers probably need salt to balance their electrolytes... or therapy.
My guess is that they won't stick with keto for the reasons I said in the above quote. If they are just using keto as a weight loss tool, and not taking care of electrolytes at the same time they will feel poorly, and then they'll abandon it and go back to "normal" eating... probably regain their weight.
People don't stick with unusual diets unless they have a good reason to do so. For vegan, it is often ethical or they feel better that way. For keto, it is often due to better health or they love that type of food. people rarely stick with something that requires effort unless they get some benefit from it.
Nah...these two have been jumping on whatever fad diet is popular for years and it always involves some kind of misery for them. It has to be hard and miserable, or it must not work. They're the same one's who think they're being sabotaged with people leaving candy in the break room.
Therapy it is then. LOL
Your break room must be a lot of "fun".0 -
https://youtu.be/da1vvigy5tQ I go for 30 carbs per day minimum. I go up to 50 if I'm still hungry. 0
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