Working with a personal trainer for weightlifting goals
LJay89
Posts: 91 Member
Hello,
So today I contacted a PT to get me started (again) with weightlifting.
He asked me what my goal was. Although I said to him I do want to lose weight, ultimately what I want from him is to help me get as strong as possible on the squat, deadlift, benchpress and pushpress. I am hoping that weightloss/a learner looking body will be something that comes from strength training being my ultimate goal.
Might sound odd but how do I communicate this to him so that it is clear??
I had a PT before and despite expressing my want to follow the four main lifts she was adamant that I should follow her plans, which didn't contain that much lifting, which would help me lose weight etc.
Thanks
So today I contacted a PT to get me started (again) with weightlifting.
He asked me what my goal was. Although I said to him I do want to lose weight, ultimately what I want from him is to help me get as strong as possible on the squat, deadlift, benchpress and pushpress. I am hoping that weightloss/a learner looking body will be something that comes from strength training being my ultimate goal.
Might sound odd but how do I communicate this to him so that it is clear??
I had a PT before and despite expressing my want to follow the four main lifts she was adamant that I should follow her plans, which didn't contain that much lifting, which would help me lose weight etc.
Thanks
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Replies
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Hello,
So today I contacted a PT to get me started (again) with weightlifting.
He asked me what my goal was. Although I said to him I do want to lose weight, ultimately what I want from him is to help me get as strong as possible on the squat, deadlift, benchpress and pushpress. I am hoping that weightloss/a learner looking body will be something that comes from strength training being my ultimate goal.
Might sound odd but how do I communicate this to him so that it is clear??
I had a PT before and despite expressing my want to follow the four main lifts she was adamant that I should follow her plans, which didn't contain that much lifting, which would help me lose weight etc.
Thanks
Tell him you want your training to be oriented toward powerlifting. If he has no knowledge or experience with powerlifting, find another trainer.4 -
Hello,
So today I contacted a PT to get me started (again) with weightlifting.
He asked me what my goal was. Although I said to him I do want to lose weight, ultimately what I want from him is to help me get as strong as possible on the squat, deadlift, benchpress and pushpress. I am hoping that weightloss/a learner looking body will be something that comes from strength training being my ultimate goal.
Might sound odd but how do I communicate this to him so that it is clear??
I had a PT before and despite expressing my want to follow the four main lifts she was adamant that I should follow her plans, which didn't contain that much lifting, which would help me lose weight etc.
Thanks
Tell him you want your training to be oriented toward powerlifting. If he has no knowledge or experience with powerlifting, find another trainer.
This exactly...0 -
I'm not a trainer but what you've said seems pretty clear to me. If s/he doesn't get it, just fire the trainer and find another who does.
You apparently want to focus your strength training on the lifts used in powerlifting, which also happen to be used in beginning programs like Stronglifts and Starting Strength but I don't hear you saying that you actually want to become a powerlifter. So, I'd avoid telling the trainer that you want a program oriented towards powelifting.
Better to say IMO that you'd just like his/her help in getting stronger by focusing only on the lifts used in the Stronglifts program, which are the DL, SQT, BP, OHP and Rows.
I suggest Stronglifts because Starting Strength uses Power Cleans instead of Rows, which is a more difficult lift intended to develop explosive strength for athletics, which does not seem to be your objective.
However, you may want to use the 3x5 set/rep routine in Starting Strength vs the 5x5 routine used in Stronglifts because it allows you (based on my experience w/both programs) to lift heavier weights and get stronger quicker than you can w/Stronglifts, while also reducing the risk of injury by avoiding doing too much too quickly.
Before you actually discuss these matters w/a potential trainer, I suggest you read and learn about both programs 1st. You just have to Google them to find that info. The programs are very similar but there are distinct differences that you need to understand in order to design the program that is best for you
As for getting leaner, weight lifting will not do much if anything for you in this regard. Only diet control and weight/BF loss will and using MFP to log your food and exercise is your best tool for that purpose.
Any trainer you speak to should say nothing that would contradict this. If they do, I would be wary of any advice they give you in this regard.
Good luck!
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I'm not a trainer but what you've said seems pretty clear to me. If s/he doesn't get it, just fire the trainer and find another who does.
You apparently want to focus your strength training on the lifts used in powerlifting, which also happen to be used in beginning programs like Stronglifts and Starting Strength but I don't hear you saying that you actually want to become a powerlifter. So, I'd avoid telling the trainer that you want a program oriented towards powelifting.
Better to say IMO that you'd just like his/her help in getting stronger by focusing only on the lifts used in the Stronglifts program, which are the DL, SQT, BP, OHP and Rows.
I suggest Stronglifts because Starting Strength uses Power Cleans instead of Rows, which is a more difficult lift intended to develop explosive strength for athletics, which does not seem to be your objective.
However, you may want to use the 3x5 set/rep routine in Starting Strength vs the 5x5 routine used in Stronglifts because it allows you (based on my experience w/both programs) to lift heavier weights and get stronger quicker than you can w/Stronglifts, while also reducing the risk of injury by avoiding doing too much too quickly.
Before you actually discuss these matters w/a potential trainer, I suggest you read and learn about both programs 1st. You just have to Google them to find that info. The programs are very similar but there are distinct differences that you need to understand in order to design the program that is best for you
As for getting leaner, weight lifting will not do much if anything for you in this regard. Only diet control and weight/BF loss will and using MFP to log your food and exercise is your best tool for that purpose.
Any trainer you speak to should say nothing that would contradict this. If they do, I would be wary of any advice they give you in this regard.
Good luck!
Thank you.
I am familiar with the programs you are talking about so i feel confident to discuss this with him.
I do want to lose weight and i have signed up to MFP for this reason. I am hoping lifting with the aim to get strong and calorie counting will be a good combo.
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Cherimoose wrote: »
I have lifted before and followed SS and SL 5X50 -
You mentioned what a past PT said when you told them your goals, but what did this PT say? Is there some reason you feel he didn't understand what you said?
Your goal sounds quite clear to me. "Get as strong as possible on the squat, deadlift, benchpress and pushpress." I don't know how one could be any more clear than that!0 -
Countless people have gotten very strong without using an Olympic barbell, myself included. There are hundreds of excellent exercises out there, so unless you want to compete in powerlifting, i would be flexible about the exercise selection.
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barbell lifting is awesome! get strong! You need to find a trainer that trains for those lifts, the PT you have now apparently isn't that kind of trainer.1
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Cherimoose wrote: »Countless people have gotten very strong without using an Olympic barbell, myself included. There are hundreds of excellent exercises out there, so unless you want to compete in powerlifting, i would be flexible about the exercise selection.
Do you have any suggestions of what I could be doing?0 -
You mentioned what a past PT said when you told them your goals, but what did this PT say? Is there some reason you feel he didn't understand what you said?
Your goal sounds quite clear to me. "Get as strong as possible on the squat, deadlift, benchpress and pushpress." I don't know how one could be any more clear than that!
I guess so... I just want to be very clear that all I want him for is to help me get as strong as possible in those lifts...0 -
You mentioned what a past PT said when you told them your goals, but what did this PT say? Is there some reason you feel he didn't understand what you said?
Your goal sounds quite clear to me. "Get as strong as possible on the squat, deadlift, benchpress and pushpress." I don't know how one could be any more clear than that!
Well we are meeting to discuss more fully so I will see what his background is. I don't think he could help me if I wanted to add in some Olympic lifting but he does have people on his website discussing how he helped them with lifting... but it is mainly endurance based stuff.0 -
Getting as strong as possible while in a calorie deficit is a slight conflict. To get a strong as possible requires energy and while in a deficit you do not have the spare energy so to speak. You will likely make some initial strength gains from neuro adaptations but eventually these will run out. Mass moves mass. speaking from experience of working to add just 2.5 tiny kg to my squat over the past 6 months and still failing because i have been at maintenance or in a deficit.5
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You mentioned what a past PT said when you told them your goals, but what did this PT say? Is there some reason you feel he didn't understand what you said?
Your goal sounds quite clear to me. "Get as strong as possible on the squat, deadlift, benchpress and pushpress." I don't know how one could be any more clear than that!
I guess so... I just want to be very clear that all I want him for is to help me get as strong as possible in those lifts...
That is crystal clear and should be to your trainer too.
But if you start out with the preamble "I want to lose weight..." then expect that clarity to go.
In your OP your message is muddled and the assumption might be that what you say first is your #1 priority.
"Although I said to him I do want to lose weight, ultimately what I want from him is to help me get as strong as possible on the squat, deadlift, benchpress and pushpress."
Ultimately isn't right now.
Think you should restate your goals to your PT precisely how they have evolved during this thread.
It might be worth mentioning that you are losing weight and they may give sensible advice along the lines of "keep your deficit low, keep your protein high, watch out for lack of energy and poor recovery" but your PT is to help with your training not your weight loss.2 -
I only used a coach to show me the lifts. I have gone back and had basically form checks. I used Starting Strength for my programming as I don’t believe a novice needs any special programming. Until you hit at least intermediate progression there is no reason to reinvent the wheel.1
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karenbeckwith5 wrote: »Getting as strong as possible while in a calorie deficit is a slight conflict. To get a strong as possible requires energy and while in a deficit you do not have the spare energy so to speak. You will likely make some initial strength gains from neuro adaptations but eventually these will run out. Mass moves mass. speaking from experience of working to add just 2.5 tiny kg to my squat over the past 6 months and still failing because i have been at maintenance or in a deficit.
If I am aiming for a change in body composition... if I ate at my TDEE and lifted heavier masses overtime, would, theoretically I see some changes?0 -
You mentioned what a past PT said when you told them your goals, but what did this PT say? Is there some reason you feel he didn't understand what you said?
Your goal sounds quite clear to me. "Get as strong as possible on the squat, deadlift, benchpress and pushpress." I don't know how one could be any more clear than that!
I guess so... I just want to be very clear that all I want him for is to help me get as strong as possible in those lifts...
That is crystal clear and should be to your trainer too.
But if you start out with the preamble "I want to lose weight..." then expect that clarity to go.
In your OP your message is muddled and the assumption might be that what you say first is your #1 priority.
"Although I said to him I do want to lose weight, ultimately what I want from him is to help me get as strong as possible on the squat, deadlift, benchpress and pushpress."
Ultimately isn't right now.
Think you should restate your goals to your PT precisely how they have evolved during this thread.
It might be worth mentioning that you are losing weight and they may give sensible advice along the lines of "keep your deficit low, keep your protein high, watch out for lack of energy and poor recovery" but your PT is to help with your training not your weight loss.
Ah, yes, okay. I will be more specific. I am coming up with some specific goals such as increase my deadlift by xxx so I think this will be better. Thanks!0 -
karenbeckwith5 wrote: »Getting as strong as possible while in a calorie deficit is a slight conflict. To get a strong as possible requires energy and while in a deficit you do not have the spare energy so to speak. You will likely make some initial strength gains from neuro adaptations but eventually these will run out. Mass moves mass. speaking from experience of working to add just 2.5 tiny kg to my squat over the past 6 months and still failing because i have been at maintenance or in a deficit.
If I am aiming for a change in body composition... if I ate at my TDEE and lifted heavier masses overtime, would, theoretically I see some changes?
I lost 60lbs in 8 months and going from not lifting to a 1000 total. In last 4months I’ve lost an additional 7.5lbs while getting to a 1180 total.
I agree there is a time when you’ll have to eat at maintenance. I also think the higher your body fat the longer you can go before then. Still it’s hard and rest and getting enough protein are even more important for recovery. Still don’t think you can’t get stronger while cutting as a novice. You absolutely can.
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karenbeckwith5 wrote: »Getting as strong as possible while in a calorie deficit is a slight conflict. To get a strong as possible requires energy and while in a deficit you do not have the spare energy so to speak. You will likely make some initial strength gains from neuro adaptations but eventually these will run out. Mass moves mass. speaking from experience of working to add just 2.5 tiny kg to my squat over the past 6 months and still failing because i have been at maintenance or in a deficit.
If I am aiming for a change in body composition... if I ate at my TDEE and lifted heavier masses overtime, would, theoretically I see some changes?
Recomp is certainly possible. It all depends on your goals and which is more important. getting stronger and hitting a certain weight for each lift or weight loss and muscle maintenance. If the first you could continue to cut and loose weight until you start to see you strength numbers stall and then consider eating at TDEE until they stall again and then consider the need for surplus cals to gain additional muscle and mass. depending on experince and how close you are to maxing out at your current weight will determine how quickly you'll need to move through the stages outlined above. after 3 years of crossfit and a year of focusing on compound movements i have finally reached a stall point that I can't seem to move beyond without additional mass.1 -
karenbeckwith5 wrote: »karenbeckwith5 wrote: »Getting as strong as possible while in a calorie deficit is a slight conflict. To get a strong as possible requires energy and while in a deficit you do not have the spare energy so to speak. You will likely make some initial strength gains from neuro adaptations but eventually these will run out. Mass moves mass. speaking from experience of working to add just 2.5 tiny kg to my squat over the past 6 months and still failing because i have been at maintenance or in a deficit.
If I am aiming for a change in body composition... if I ate at my TDEE and lifted heavier masses overtime, would, theoretically I see some changes?
Recomp is certainly possible. It all depends on your goals and which is more important. getting stronger and hitting a certain weight for each lift or weight loss and muscle maintenance. If the first you could continue to cut and loose weight until you start to see you strength numbers stall and then consider eating at TDEE until they stall again and then consider the need for surplus cals to gain additional muscle and mass. depending on experince and how close you are to maxing out at your current weight will determine how quickly you'll need to move through the stages outlined above. after 3 years of crossfit and a year of focusing on compound movements i have finally reached a stall point that I can't seem to move beyond without additional mass.
I really like this post. I have been lifting for less and all of it has been focused on strength. Still this would fall in line with my experience. My total is still going up as I cut down to 105kg. Sure it’s a very slow cut and I took a short maintenance break.0 -
karenbeckwith5 wrote: »karenbeckwith5 wrote: »Getting as strong as possible while in a calorie deficit is a slight conflict. To get a strong as possible requires energy and while in a deficit you do not have the spare energy so to speak. You will likely make some initial strength gains from neuro adaptations but eventually these will run out. Mass moves mass. speaking from experience of working to add just 2.5 tiny kg to my squat over the past 6 months and still failing because i have been at maintenance or in a deficit.
If I am aiming for a change in body composition... if I ate at my TDEE and lifted heavier masses overtime, would, theoretically I see some changes?
Recomp is certainly possible. It all depends on your goals and which is more important. getting stronger and hitting a certain weight for each lift or weight loss and muscle maintenance. If the first you could continue to cut and loose weight until you start to see you strength numbers stall and then consider eating at TDEE until they stall again and then consider the need for surplus cals to gain additional muscle and mass. depending on experince and how close you are to maxing out at your current weight will determine how quickly you'll need to move through the stages outlined above. after 3 years of crossfit and a year of focusing on compound movements i have finally reached a stall point that I can't seem to move beyond without additional mass.
I really like this post. I have been lifting for less and all of it has been focused on strength. Still this would fall in line with my experience. My total is still going up as I cut down to 105kg. Sure it’s a very slow cut and I took a short maintenance break.
This all makes sense. To be honest the first thing i need to do is to accurately log. I tend to not or be lack with it. I am going to spend the next few weeks just simply logging and upping my protein.
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Hello,
So today I contacted a PT to get me started (again) with weightlifting.
He asked me what my goal was. Although I said to him I do want to lose weight, ultimately what I want from him is to help me get as strong as possible on the squat, deadlift, benchpress and pushpress. I am hoping that weightloss/a learner looking body will be something that comes from strength training being my ultimate goal.
Might sound odd but how do I communicate this to him so that it is clear??
I had a PT before and despite expressing my want to follow the four main lifts she was adamant that I should follow her plans, which didn't contain that much lifting, which would help me lose weight etc.
Thanks
As others have said, you need to be specific with your goals when discussing with the trainer.
That being said, the trainer should be having you do what you need instead of what you want. Say for example, you want to do a barbell back squat. The trainer may, from an assessment, determine you don't have the shoulder mobility to do a back squat with a barbell. In that case a responsible trainer would not let you back squat but would program other exercises such as a goblet squat to work the squat movement pattern. He/she should also work with you on the shoulder mobility issue.2 -
Packerjohn wrote: »Hello,
So today I contacted a PT to get me started (again) with weightlifting.
He asked me what my goal was. Although I said to him I do want to lose weight, ultimately what I want from him is to help me get as strong as possible on the squat, deadlift, benchpress and pushpress. I am hoping that weightloss/a learner looking body will be something that comes from strength training being my ultimate goal.
Might sound odd but how do I communicate this to him so that it is clear??
I had a PT before and despite expressing my want to follow the four main lifts she was adamant that I should follow her plans, which didn't contain that much lifting, which would help me lose weight etc.
Thanks
As others have said, you need to be specific with your goals when discussing with the trainer.
That being said, the trainer should be having you do what you need instead of what you want. Say for example, you want to do a barbell back squat. The trainer may, from an assessment, determine you don't have the shoulder mobility to do a back squat with a barbell. In that case a responsible trainer would not let you back squat but would program other exercises such as a goblet squat to work the squat movement pattern. He/she should also work with you on the shoulder mobility issue.
This is true. Thank you. I guess i will just need to make sure i communicate with him what i am doing and why etc.
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karenbeckwith5 wrote: »Getting as strong as possible while in a calorie deficit is a slight conflict. To get a strong as possible requires energy and while in a deficit you do not have the spare energy so to speak. You will likely make some initial strength gains from neuro adaptations but eventually these will run out. Mass moves mass. speaking from experience of working to add just 2.5 tiny kg to my squat over the past 6 months and still failing because i have been at maintenance or in a deficit.
If I am aiming for a change in body composition... if I ate at my TDEE and lifted heavier masses overtime, would, theoretically I see some changes?
If your goal is to change body composition, that is very different than a goal of getting strong as you can be on those 4 compound lifts. Sure if you eat healthy and do any exercise you are going to see positive changes. But if you are very specific about the changes you want to see, you need to be on a program / and diet specific to that. I powerlift, i go for strength on the big lifts, and my body is totally different than the girl i work out with at my gym who trains for figure competitions. We are both healthy and strong, but totally different. I can out lift her, but she's got the cute curves. So narrow down your goal and then get on a program for that.1 -
It sounds like you're far more advanced than I am, but in case anyone else less advanced is reading, when I started using my trainer, while fat loss is my number one goal, I also told her I LOVE lifting and would love to see the day come when I can really lift heavy. She did an assessment and told me that day would come, but that we needed to do it right (I'm prone to injury).
Over the last year I've spent lots of time doing a lot of core work along with upper and lower body, but it's not really any type of heavy lifting. Mostly body weight, resistance bands, and dumbbells. And now I understand why...my foundation was too weak to really have good form for the heavy lifts to get rolling yet. It's amazing to me to see the difference in the form I'm now able to hold on just the simple moves compared to what I was doing a year ago. Point being, there is a method to the madness (if you're just starting out like I was). Oh...and so far...not one injury.0 -
I do part time personal training (cause money is good) and the other PTs I work with know nothing about powerlifting, coaching the movements, and the programming.
This is no surprise to me as a competitive powerlifter and powerlifting coach — PT certs don’t prepare you for that demanding sport2 -
OP: As others have said, you need to be clear regarding your goals.
I did not sense that you wanted to become the strongest lifter; just to get stronger than you currently are. On the other hand, I hear that you want to lose weight and to get healthier and look better.
These are very common goals and are totally achievable if you are patient and disciplined.
I have achieved these same goals. It took me just short of 2 years to do so. Allow me to give you a, few suggestions regarding weight lifting.
There is a bias among lifters to attempt to lift greater and greater weight for its own sake (and to encourage others to also do so). This makes sense for lifting competitors but not for others for at least 2 reasons.
First, your ability to lift is subject to diminishing gains the closer you reach your genetic and physical limitations. The amount of time/effort needed to eek out addition gains near your genetic and physical limits far exceeds the benefit for a noncompetitive lifter IMO.
Second, your risk of injury from attenpting to lift greater weight will rise significantly the closer you get to your genetic and physical limitations.
So, if you are a noncompetitive lifter, you have to assess what those limitations are and treat that as a redline beyond which further lifting is neither advisable nor necessary.
In other words, that plateau you reach may not be a barrier that needs to be overcome but a red flag telling you that you've reached a level of strength that is optimal for you and recognize that the plateau is not a sign of failure but actually proof of your success in becoming as strong as you can be.
This is the philosophy that I have taken with my lifting.
I quickly gained a lot of strength doing SS and SL (and variations of them) and got seriously injured trying to do more than I was capable of doing too quickly, which is a problem common, particularly among male lifters who just focus on trying to lift as much weight as they can as fast as they can and consider it a failure when they can't lift any more.
After recovering from my injury, I altered my perspective and decided that I needed to set a more reasonable weightlifting goals for myself.
I chose to use the Killustrated charts and the database at Strength Level.com for this purpose. These resources will tell you how much weight a person can be expected to lift based on their gender, body weight, age and level of training from Novice to Advanced or Elite.
Accordinging to both resources, I can lift at the Elite and Advanced levels for all of the basic lifts used in SL and am rated at 99.5% as strong as other men of my weight and age (according to the Strength Level database).
That was strong enough for me and, when I reached this level, which was not that long ago, I stopped trying to lift more weight and now just lift enough to maintain the strength already achieved and am happy with that because I do not have to struggle lifting heavier weight anymore (even though I can now easily lift weight that I struggled w/before) and I can spend less time lifting and enjoy doing other things instead.
So, long strong short, if you are looking for a standard of training to set your weight lifting goals, I strongly suggest that you use the Killustrated charts and/or the Strength Level database for this purpose and not worry about trying to become the strongest person of your gender/age/weight alive, unless of course that is your objective.
Good luck!
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Cherimoose wrote: »Countless people have gotten very strong without using an Olympic barbell, myself included. There are hundreds of excellent exercises out there, so unless you want to compete in powerlifting, i would be flexible about the exercise selection.
Do you have any suggestions of what I could be doing?
It seems your main reason for lifting is a change in body composition. Almost any good strength program can work for that, including machine and body weight programs. If your trainer is good, i'd follow their program. It might be a better fit than the cookie-cutter programs, since it's customized to your abilities & limitations.0
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