Eliminating a "diet food" mindset
garystrickland357
Posts: 598 Member
I've had something on my mind recently and I want to throw it our here for discussion. mainly I'm curious to see how others view this topic... This idea of "low calorie" recipes and meals.
I had a personal epiphany this time around in my weight loss journey. We all know that if we consume less calories than we burn, we'll lose weight. We all understand a calorie is a unit of energy and does nothing to describe the nutritional content of the food item in question. We all also understand that some meals are more nutritious than others. So what I realized was that - given I am eating a reasonably nutritious meal - how many calories I ingest is a function of how many times I stab myself in the face with the fork. I control the calorie count with portion size.
This is not news, but internalizing this simple idea was liberating for me. There are no longer foods that are "off limits." If I want ice cream I know I can have it. If I want to eat Mexican food, pizza, bbq, or whatever - I can have it. I just need to consider the nutritional value and control how much I put in my body.
So now I understand that "low calorie" meals can be a trap (for me). Are they just an excuse to keep eating portion sizes that are unreasonable in the first place? For me it's like, "I want a different outcome, but don't ask me to change how I feel about portion control."
Don't get me wrong, I do fully understand trying recipes and foods that are less calorie dense. I'm all about choosing the halo over the mini Snickers bar. My point is I no longer see the halo as "diet" food and the Snickers as "fat" food. They are both just food choices...
I guess the question is - do you feel like when we label something as "low calorie" or "diet" does that imply that it isn't "normal"? Because if that's true then it is probably not sustainable over a lifetime of eating. Do those words imply that there are other foods that are off limits and therefore we must deny ourselves of them?
Would we be better off as a weight loss community to just learn how to mange "food" - period? My wife sees this differently than I do - and that's fine. How do you see this idea?
I had a personal epiphany this time around in my weight loss journey. We all know that if we consume less calories than we burn, we'll lose weight. We all understand a calorie is a unit of energy and does nothing to describe the nutritional content of the food item in question. We all also understand that some meals are more nutritious than others. So what I realized was that - given I am eating a reasonably nutritious meal - how many calories I ingest is a function of how many times I stab myself in the face with the fork. I control the calorie count with portion size.
This is not news, but internalizing this simple idea was liberating for me. There are no longer foods that are "off limits." If I want ice cream I know I can have it. If I want to eat Mexican food, pizza, bbq, or whatever - I can have it. I just need to consider the nutritional value and control how much I put in my body.
So now I understand that "low calorie" meals can be a trap (for me). Are they just an excuse to keep eating portion sizes that are unreasonable in the first place? For me it's like, "I want a different outcome, but don't ask me to change how I feel about portion control."
Don't get me wrong, I do fully understand trying recipes and foods that are less calorie dense. I'm all about choosing the halo over the mini Snickers bar. My point is I no longer see the halo as "diet" food and the Snickers as "fat" food. They are both just food choices...
I guess the question is - do you feel like when we label something as "low calorie" or "diet" does that imply that it isn't "normal"? Because if that's true then it is probably not sustainable over a lifetime of eating. Do those words imply that there are other foods that are off limits and therefore we must deny ourselves of them?
Would we be better off as a weight loss community to just learn how to mange "food" - period? My wife sees this differently than I do - and that's fine. How do you see this idea?
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I think I'm following but forgive me if my response shows otherwise.
So now I understand that "low calorie" meals can be a trap (for me). Are they just an excuse to keep eating portion sizes that are unreasonable in the first place? For me it's like, "I want a different outcome, but don't ask me to change how I feel about portion control."
When you mention the above, my mind goes to volume eating. I can go and have 2 pounds of steamed cauliflower which can be considered an unreasonable portion size but can also still be considered low calorie. I don't see that as an excuse but more of a tool (when used the right way) to help with diet adherence through increased satiety (the whole "getting more bang for your buck" idea).
Overall, I think it's just subjective. What I would "label" as low calorie might be different from what you label as low calorie. It seems this would just fall under the whole movement of abandoning labels "clean" vs. "dirty" foods being kind of the poster child sentiment.
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I'm with you; food is food, some of it has more nutritional value than others, etc.
I was actually having a version of this conversation with my Father-in-law a few weeks ago. We went out for dinner with my wife's family for her birthday and ended up going for ice cream afterwards. FIL is a relatively new user (at my suggestion) and was debating trying one of the "Low Glycemic Index" flavors this particular ice cream chain has. He asked if I'd ever tried them before, I said "no" and offered the speculation that the taste difference probably isn't worth the caloric advantage (70-100 cals per serving depending on comparison flavor) and it was like a light bulb went off for him.2 -
you need to label them low calorie other wise people that want low calorie food wouldnt know what to buy without standing in the freezer aisle reading the back of every packet of icecream .... AND Mr Halotop is trying to sella product aimed at people wanting low calorie, so he is going to write low calorie all over it ... if he didnt, then it would be bad advertising.1
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I understand what you're saying and I see your point. And your response is just what I was fishing for - to see what others think. Thanks.laurenbastug wrote: »I don't see that as an excuse but more of a tool (when used the right way) to help with diet adherence through increased satiety (the whole "getting more bang for your buck" idea).
Overall, I think it's just subjective. What I would "label" as low calorie might be different from what you label as low calorie. It seems this would just fall under the whole movement of abandoning labels "clean" vs. "dirty" foods being kind of the poster child sentiment.
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@steveko89 Ok, so I'm not the only one. It was like a "light bulb moment" for me too when I started looking at food differently.
@h1udd I completely agree with your point. I was struggling with how to phrase my thoughts in my post. I appreciate the feedback.0 -
Depends. In restaurants, a lot of lower calorie options are lower calories because they have less fat. There's no trap there - just a meal that's often as filling for half the calories (because fat might be filling, but oil and butter... not really). Sure, lots of diet food is a bit of a joke and not worth the trade off (like the low sugar stuff that always tastes too sweet and artificial to me), but for me it's always worth it to switch to learner ground meat, for example.
For me, controlling the calorie count with portion size is a bit of a joke because that's how you get those '100 calorie a serving' brownies with serving sizes so ridiculous that nobody's going to be satisfied with that. I mean, everything can be 100 calorie a serving if you make it small enough... it's not necessarily going to be filling or satisfying for the calories though.
I know that there are a lot of people here that advocate 'just eat less', but frankly, for a lot of us, we HAVE to make different choices and switch to foods that are more satiating for fewer calories if we don't want to be hungry all the time.6 -
Your comment about restaurants is completely fair and I agree. I see your point about the brownie example, and it's funny - I'm in the camp of rather having two bites of a really good brownie than a larger serving of something less satisfying.
I know that there are a lot of people here that advocate 'just eat less', but frankly, for a lot of us, we HAVE to make different choices and switch to foods that are more satiating for fewer calories if we don't want to be hungry all the time.
I think your last point is probably the thing all of us have to keep in mind in these discussions - trying to remember that we all have to figure out what works for us personally. Each of us has different issues and challenges and our solutions regarding weight loss and how we handle food are different as well.
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I'm with you OP. I grew up eating HUGE portions, to the point that after meals, I was used to being physically uncomfortable. Today, I hate that feeling.
Retraining took a long time and I still occasionally finish a meal and think "but I'm still huuuuungry!" I will now wait 20-30 minutes and if I am still hungry, I eat. Usually I am not.0 -
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geneticsteacher wrote: »
Retraining took a long time and I still occasionally finish a meal and think "but I'm still huuuuungry!" I will now wait 20-30 minutes and if I am still hungry, I eat. Usually I am not.
I still find myself plating a meal and thinking, "There's no way this will fill me up." I have had to relearn how much is "enough". Like you, I end up eating the meal and I feel completely satisfied. Maybe it had something to do with the "clean your plate" mentality I was raised with.
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I ate a Buster Bar from DQ last night and it fit my calories and I feel zero percent bad about it.10
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I think what is and isn't sustainable is going to vary person to person. Labels can matter, but I think it's more about what those labels mean to any given person. Like so many things, labels are just words - it's the connotation that comes with the word than can/will matter.
I will say that the cultural norm regarding portion/serving sizes doesn't help anyone, at least here in the states... so there is a bit of an uphill battle in that regard. But the information/tools are there for people who care enough to use them.3 -
Absolutely not. If you follow that logic, you're saying that high-calorie foods are normal foods and low-calorie foods are not. You're still holding onto the idea that high-calorie foods are the norm and you're deviating from the norm when you choose a lower-calorie option, and I think that's an unhealthy way to think about foods.garystrickland357 wrote: »I guess the question is - do you feel like when we label something as "low calorie" or "diet" does that imply that it isn't "normal"?
Foods have a wide range of calories -- some are naturally lower-calorie and some are higher-calorie. Some of my favorite foods are naturally low in calories, so when I choose them, it's a normal behavior because I'm choosing to eat what I like. Here's a good example: I LOVE fresh berries with whipped cream. I only get to eat that for a few months out of the year, so it feels decadent and special to me. It just so happens that I can eat a pretty large bowl of fresh berries and whipped cream for around 100 calories, but that's not why I choose to eat them.
(Although I will say that I never use the word "diet" in that sense; I use it to refer to a person's broader food intake, but never as a code for low-calorie or low-fat or anything like that).
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My shift into that mindset accounts for around 90% of my ability to maintain weight (3 years in, and counting). I have lost weight with diet food, yes, but never been able to keep it off that way - how liberating to just eat food
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I've always eaten food with a pretty good nutritional content, but far too much of it. When I was trying to lose weight, I'd reduce the total volume of food and completely eliminate treats (i.e. the non-"diet food"). The result was that I felt deprived, putting me at risk for binges, and for very little actual benefit calorie-wise. I considered treats and restaurant food as "cheats," as if they weren't really a part of my eating plan. They were a departure from it. And when I was done with my "diet", I'd return to my normal volume of food, with predictable results.
Now, I'm actually eating more "treats," but I'm considering them an equally valid part of my plan. So my eating plan feels completely sustainable and enjoyable, and also nutritionally sound. I'm still getting following the nutritional guidelines for long-term health, as well as the occasional ice cream or cookie, in appropriate context and dosage to allow my weight loss to continue. These days, there is no "diet". I have an eating pattern that has the same foods now as it will after hitting maintenance. Only the calorie target will change.3 -
My point is I no longer see the halo as "diet" food and the Snickers as "fat" food. They are both just food choices...
This is exactly how I feel and struggle to explain to people sometimes. Now there are choices I make that are seen as explicitly low calorie, but I don't make them because they're "diet foods", I make them because I get the same kind of satisfaction for fewer calories. I wouldn't want to spend my calories on regular soda because I like diet soda just as much.
To me, what I choose and how often I make that choice depends on how many calories are in the smallest portion I consider satisfying, both mentally and physically. I guess I can have a serving of cheesecake so small that the calories are reasonable, but I would take the last bite and still feel like I need more, and wish I didn't have that couple of bites teaser. That's why I have the smallest serving of cheesecake that is satisfying to me, but because it's still relatively large and high in calories I just have it less often. "Just eat less of it" doesn't need to translate to eating minuscule portions, it can mean eating something less often. Ice cream, on the other hand, I can have every day if I wanted to, because the smallest satisfying portion is actually a single serving which is reasonable in calories. That's why given the choice I would choose ice cream over halo top or some such 100% of the time. Sure I can have more of halo top, but why would I want to if the real thing tastes better and a small portion is enough for me.
My choices are not about greed for a bigger portion, but about achieving satisfaction from the food I'm eating. Some foods can only be satisfying in larger portions to me, that's all. Everything edible is food, and every food is just another choice. What choice I make always has a context, not a blanket "low calorie" rule. Some of my most favorite foods are low in calories, but they just happen to be. I don't choose them because they're low in calories. Some foods I do choose because they're lower in calories, but that's because they're just as enjoyable to me as the higher calorie counterpart. On the other hand, you will never catch me eating lettuce wrapped burgers or cauliflower pizza crust because biting into the bread is a crucial part of the experience to me, no matter how many calories it has.
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Thanks for the response. This last sentiment is more of my mindset. I appreciate hearing everyone's views. I want this to be my last fight to control my weight. I'm working to develop an attitude that I can sustain for the rest of my life.
(Although I will say that I never use the word "diet" in that sense; I use it to refer to a person's broader food intake, but never as a code for low-calorie or low-fat or anything like that).
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@amusedmonkey You explained how I look at food much better than I did.1
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Some of this seems confusing so I am not sure how much of this is on topic. During my gaining years I drank a good deal of my calories and I also ate high calorie food because I was hungry and didn't want to stop for lunch not because I really wanted it. Oddly my cravings were often of what is normally considered healthier and lower calorie foods. I have always loved vegetables and seafood for instance. That is not to say I didn't want the fried pork chops, pizza, and bacon cheeseburger occasionally but for many years I have hated the feeling of being weighed down too much by food so lighter was regularly chosen. I would get weird looks from friends when I ordered from the "light" menu like they were hoping this meant I had gotten a clue and was on a diet. My snacks were seeds, nuts, popcorn, jerky (which I had to stop) more than they were potato chips, nachos, doritos, etc. I even regularly drank smoothies.
My biggest changes were not in depriving myself of the foods I wanted to eat but to stop being lazy about meal planning and relying on something quick and caloric to satiate my hunger. Recognizing this as a problem even a couple of years before I started weight loss I had already cut out fast food and was starting to trim convenient freezer food. I had, also even gotten rid of the jerky and other trigger foods.
The other change was just making meals and time for meals a higher priority.
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I don't like the term diet food and I avoid any such items with a barge pole - food is food, some are higher calorie than others so I limit them. And its stood me in good stead because I'm about to enter my 5th year at maintenance.
As someone else mentioned already in this thread, a small piece of a really good cake for example is better than a big portion of a mediocre tasting one. The way I look at it is; how are my daily calories best spent and what will leave me feeling most satiated.4 -
LivingtheLeanDream wrote: »As someone else mentioned already in this thread, a small piece of a really good cake for example is better than a big portion of a mediocre tasting one. The way I look at it is; how are my daily calories best spent and what will leave me feeling most satiated.
This is the second time I have seen you mention cake today. Cakes are bread with icing. Pie>Cake!
I have been able to train myself on many foods to accept the flavor and understand that each additional bite is just the same thing over again. I can't do it with everything but I have made a nice dent.3 -
LivingtheLeanDream wrote: »As someone else mentioned already in this thread, a small piece of a really good cake for example is better than a big portion of a mediocre tasting one. The way I look at it is; how are my daily calories best spent and what will leave me feeling most satiated.
This is the second time I have seen you mention cake today. Cakes are bread with icing. Pie>Cake!
I have been able to train myself on many foods to accept the flavor and understand that each additional bite is just the same thing over again. I can't do it with everything but I have made a nice dent.
And pie is just a biscuit with fruit in it! Cake>Pie! 0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »And pie is just a biscuit with fruit in it! Cake>Pie!
Oh no you didn't... Biscuits > Bread any day of the week. Fruit is more flavorful and complex than the sugar bomb icing so Fruit > Icing
Clear winner... PIE!
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janejellyroll wrote: »And pie is just a biscuit with fruit in it! Cake>Pie!
Oh no you didn't... Biscuits > Bread any day of the week. Fruit is more flavorful and complex than the sugar bomb icing so Fruit > Icing
Clear winner... PIE!
Thanks. I'll never be able to unsee that.
Fruit > vegetables, but that's about it. How the hell fruit got in the same conversation as cake is beyond me.1 -
I'm lucky. I'm team both! I get the bread, the biscuits, and the whole spectrum of sugar.2
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LivingtheLeanDream wrote: »As someone else mentioned already in this thread, a small piece of a really good cake for example is better than a big portion of a mediocre tasting one. The way I look at it is; how are my daily calories best spent and what will leave me feeling most satiated.
This is the second time I have seen you mention cake today. Cakes are bread with icing. Pie>Cake!
I have been able to train myself on many foods to accept the flavor and understand that each additional bite is just the same thing over again. I can't do it with everything but I have made a nice dent.
What can I say...I like good cake
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I undestand you, but I really think it depends on the mindset where you come from. In the end, if you want to lose weight consuming less calories, you will either end eating less quantity of tasty foods or a huge quantity of less tasty ones. In my mind the very important thing to learn is balance. Some treats keep you satisfied psychologically, but some low cal food/high volume food will keep you satisfied physically, and the most important thing to learn is when you need one or the other. So yes, if you come from the point of view that only volume counts, learning that sometimes a small portion of something good is better for you is an important lesson, and, on the other hand, for those who think that they just need to eat less and hunger is necessary to lose weight is as much as important to learn which food they can eat much and be full and still be under calories.2
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My first thought when I read the topic was diet methods like nutrisystems that sell you on low cal soy shaped into food. I did that and lost weight but it wasn't sustainable.
This time I'm using platejoy.com and relearning how to eat. I'm buying my own fresh ingredients and preparing interesting recipes in portions suitable to my calorie goals. It is working well for me and I expect it to be more sustainable. I'm learning about food and cooking along with calorie management. I eat out much less.
My right-sized wife was needing her Mexican fix last night so we went out for that. I didn't deprive myself but I did eat mindfully by ordering ceviche and dumped the whole 1/2 cup of salsa on top. At the end I had one chip to prove my willpower mastery. No big deal. I can go to any restaurant I want and eat whatever I want and any choice I make will have consequences. To tell the truth, that first bite of ice cream is so much better than the one at the bottom of the carton.
I don't really consider myself on a diet. I'm just relearning how to eat mindfully. There's a lot to google on 'mindful eating' that's along the lines of what OP found enlightening. One of the methods I struggle to relearn is not finishing a plate or a bag or whatever. That food will either end up on my calorie log or in the trash, my choice.3 -
garystrickland357 wrote: »I still find myself plating a meal and thinking, "There's no way this will fill me up." I have had to relearn how much is "enough". Like you, I end up eating the meal and I feel completely satisfied. Maybe it had something to do with the "clean your plate" mentality I was raised with.
You can learn to replace the "There's no way this will fill me up" negative message with the positive message "I'll eat this and really enjoy it, and if I want more, it will still be there". It takes 20 minutes more or less for your brain to register your fullness, and eating slowly gives the brain that extra time. You can write your negative messages on 3X5 cards, write a positive response below each, and keep them in your pocket. Take them out and read them before you sit down to a meal or snack, or when you notice the negative food-related messages cropping up in your mind.
I love ice cream, and I've tried many of the low calorie ice cream options, and I don't like them. Period. I'd rather have a scoop of really good full-fat ice cream or frozen yogurt than a whole carton of the Halo Top product or the loathesome "ice milk". So I don't have it as often. Feeling satisfied has as much to do with scratching the psychological itch for a taste experience as it does with feeling full. And there's nothing wrong with that: food doesn't have to be only about fueling your metabolic engine, it's also about enjoyment. Just as sex isn't just about reproduction.
Every once in a while, I'll want chocolate - so I'll go and buy a bar of something really good, and eat 3-4 squares. The remainder goes on top of the fridge for later - a bar lasts me three days. If I decide to have more, I do so - and I don't agonize over it because a little chocolate isn't going to destroy my maintenance.4 -
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